There's a lot of palaver about who won the presidential debate on Tuesday, both in terms of style and substance. 

But ultimately, the person who "wins" isn't the person who can make the most weird faces or have the greatest throwaway line. It's the person who can get the undecideds and the independents. 

The problem for Kamala Harris is that she had a need to define herself, unlike President Donald Trump. What the independent voters wanted to hear was how Harris is different than Joe Biden, whose policies they have not liked, and what are her policies for the future? 

As I noted in a couple of my earlier stories about folks in the CBS and Reuters focus groups, the voters didn't feel they got those answers. CNN also tracked that Trump actually gained points on the most important issue for people, leading her by 20 points on the economy, 23 points on immigration, and six on leadership as commander-in-chief. 

Reuters Focus Group Delivers Some Bad Debate News for Kamala Harris
 - and It's All Her Own Fault

CNN Poll Shows Trump Beat Harris on the Point That Matters Most to the American People

WATCH: CBS Focus Group Members Drop Some Big Time Reality on Kamala Harris

While ABC did a horrible job with the biased moderators, even ABC reporters said she failed to provide those answers. 

ABC REACTS: "Kamala Harris did not do a good job today explaining her policy." pic.twitter.com/e14JfR87G1

— Trump War Room (@TrumpWarRoom) September 11, 2024

Another noted that Harris didn't even answer the question if people were better off than they were four years ago. 

ABC NEWS: Kamala Harris was asked if she believes Americans are better off now than they were 4 years ago, and she DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. pic.twitter.com/7MTRfN4NT1

— Trump War Room (@TrumpWarRoom) September 11, 2024

But one of the most interesting reports as to independent voters was from Lee Carter, pollster and president of Maslansky + Partners, on Fox's "The Faulkner Focus." She used dial monitors to show the reactions of voters to what was being said by Harris and Trump.  

The focus group comprised of seven Democrats, five independents, and five Republicans, represented by blue, yellow, and red lines, respectively. But what was interesting was how much the independents tracked with the Republicans.  

When Trump spoke of the rising crime at the hands of illegal immigrants, the yellow line monitoring the independent reaction rose drastically in Trump's favor, overlapping with the red Republican line.

"I was really, really surprised because the intensity of the independent support was there for Donald Trump and I didn't expect it," Carter said Wednesday on "The Faulkner Focus."

"Independents are tracking very much with Republicans. They're looking for a couple of things. They're looking for answers on immigration, they're looking for answers on the economy. They want to hear that things will get better for them and they also want change from what is happening right now," Carter continued. "One of the most important things they were looking for last night from Kamala Harris is how are you going to make it different?"

They didn't get it. 

When Harris said that Trump had no plan and just wanted to give tax breaks to the wealthy, the Republicans and the independents didn't approve of that, and both red and yellow lines took a dive. They clearly didn't believe her when she said that economists said her plan would be better and Trump's would cause more inflation. That took a lot of gall, given that she helped cause the record inflation. 

Independents (yellow) trusted much more Trump during the debate, not Kamala pic.twitter.com/p2OoKVK2hS

— Aaron Ginn (@aginnt) September 12, 2024

When Trump spoke about it, the red and yellow lines went up, indicating they were liking what they were hearing about his plans for the economy. When he said Biden-Harris had destroyed the economy, people really agreed when he talked about the prices of bacon and eggs. 

The independents weren't buying her claims on fracking either. Trump spoke about her extreme positions on defund the police, paying for gender transition for detained illegal aliens, rising crime, and even abortion, all of that hit home as well. The biggest thing was his final message — why hasn't she done any of what she's saying when she's been in office for the past three-plus years? 

Here's the full discussion,