There aren't too many times when I find myself agreeing with Democratic governors like New York's Kathy Hochul or Michigan's Gretchen Whitmer. Nor do I frequently agree with CNN's "State of the Union" host Jake Tapper. And yet...

Tapper hosted Illinois Governor JB Pritzker on Sunday morning's show, just ahead of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. While they discussed several substantive issues, some might argue the most substantive was this: Chicago-style deep-dish pizza. 

Before I get to their exchange, I'd like to take a brief stroll down Memory Lane: I'm a St. Louis native. We have our own style of pizza here, known for its thin, cracker-like crust, sweet tomato sauce, and, regrettably, Provel cheese. For those unfamiliar, Provel is a gooey combo of Swiss, cheddar, and provolone, giving it a semi-sweet flavor and the consistency of toothpaste when you bite into it. In case you can't tell, I'm not a fan. I'll eat it if that's my only choice (and the rope-style version of it used to top salads is tolerable), but I will always opt for mozzarella over Provel if given the option. 

Not only did I grow up on St. Louis-style pizza, I worked a summer or two as a Pizza Hut delivery driver. It was actually one of the most fun jobs I ever had — driving around in my car, listening to tunes on the radio, making decent money in tips, and occasionally helping back at the store with washing out the pizza pans and prepping pizzas. (I got very adept at making my own personal pan — pepperoni and green peppers, thank you very much.) 

Point being: I have some pretty strong opinions about what constitutes good pizza. 

I hate to break it to my old classmate JB, but Chicago deep-dish ain't it. I was introduced to this weird casserole masquerading as "pizza" in my first week of law school. Pizzeria Due was just a few blocks away from my first-year dorm at Northwestern — and just around the corner from its progenitor, Pizzeria Uno — and my roommate and I and several new classmates made a foray there one evening. I was told I simply must try this amazing Windy City offering. I did. My reaction? Meh. 

It's too much stuff and not enough crust, in my opinion. I'm not a huge fan of tomato sauce, to begin with, and I don't want to be borderline drinking it while trying to enjoy good stuff like meat and cheese and crust. And while I adore both meat and cheese, chomping into an inch-plus thick pile of them while ostensibly eating "pizza" just doesn't wash. You basically have to eat the stuff with a fork. In my view, that makes it casserole. 

As a quick aside, while I prefer Chicago — the town — to New York, I must give a major thumbs up to New York-style pizza. I had my first encounter with it a decade ago as we spent a day-and-a-half in the city following my nephew's wedding on Long Island. I was bleary-eyed from a lively wedding reception the night before and a rough Monday morning commute into the city along with eight gabillion other vehicles and still trying to adjust to the jarring cacophony that is New York City when we visited Famous Original Ray's Pizza on the recommendation of my good friend, John Brodigan. I can't recall if I had one or two slices — they're huge — but it/they were a true slice of Heaven. Thin (though not crispy) crust, with just the right amount of delicious mozzarella cheese, light on the sauce, and zesty pepperoni, with a nice greasy sheen on the top. (Note: When one is experiencing the after-effects of over-indulging, grease, bread, and protein are helpful.) 

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Now, back to that casserole. Tapper and Pritzker were jawing about Chicago and its weird sense of what is and isn't good pizza. 

“Don’t judge a book by its cover.”

On @CNNSOTU, @GovPritzker defends Chicago-style deep dish pizza and responds to ribbing from his fellow Democratic governors ahead of the DNC in Chicago. pic.twitter.com/sl9Jo8gz4l

— State of the Union (@CNNSOTU) August 18, 2024

At the end of their interview, Tapper pointed out that Pritzker's rival Dem governors, Hochul and Whitmer, had thrown some (well-deserved) shade at the — let's call it what it is — weird inside-out pot pie Chicagoans try to pass off as "pizza." 

TAPPER: Before we go, I wanted to give you a chance to respond to some brutal attacks from your fellow Democratic governors. New York Governor Kathy Hochul tweeted a picture of some — I guess this is supposed to be deep-dish pizza? — and [s]he said, "Seriously, what is this?" And Governor Whitmer of Michigan offered to give you a lift back to Michigan "if you want to see some winning sports teams." Ouch! That's rough stuff.

PRITZKER: Well, all I can say is that there were a lot of years where Detroit had no winners. We've had an awful lot of championships right in this arena, I might add, in the United Center. And, of course, on the pizza front, I mean, there's no better pizza than Chicago deep-dish pizza.

TAPPER: It's not really pizza, though, right? It's more like an actual casserole.

PRITZKER: Listen, you're from Philly. You don't know pizza from anything. Let's be clear — we know pizza. And she's showing a picture of something apparently she made in her own kitchen. Come to Chicago — experience deep-dish pizza. We know it.

TAPPER: It's like a swimming pool of cheese is really what it is — I'm not really sure — and bread.

PRITZKER: Don't judge a book by its cover. 

TAPPER: I've eaten that soufflé before. 

So have I, Jake, and I'm with you — no matter how much I love cheese. And, when you think about it, his words serve as an apt metaphor — for Chicago conventions and what the Dems are serving up.