It’s this one, from the never-to-be-sufficiently-hated-by-the-Left Rasmussen: and on its face it’s innocuous enough. It’s the partisan identification poll, and it currently lists Democrats at 35%, Republicans at 33.8%, and Neither at 31.1%. Unsurprising, based on recent events, right? – Also, it’s a poll of adults, so this probably means a Republican advantage among likely voters, as that’s the usual rule of thumb for these things. So, nothing really unusual here, right?
Wrong. If this poll is accurate, it’s a harbinger of DOOM for the Democrats.
I don’t pretend to be a professional pollster, but I’ve been dealing with polls on a regular basis since 2003, so I at least know the basics. And I know that – once you get past the pure technical details about whether or not a poll has gotten a true random sample, or whether there’s deliberate bias in the questions – the two major questions that have to be addressed about an election poll both touch on how well it snapshots the actual electorate.
For example: experience shows that a poll that samples 1,000 adults will have a result that is significantly different than one that samples 1,000 likely voters*. The trick is determining what a ‘likely voter’ is, which is why many pollsters at least try to work with the more quantifiable ‘registered voters:’ it doesn’t give you as good results, but it at least screens out the people who can’t vote. It’s also why pollsters try to find out who is enthusiastic about voting, and who isn’t. But that’s only half of the problem; the other half is determining whether or not the current partisan mix of voters has shifted since the last benchmark. That benchmark is usually an election; it’s a truism that, generally, Republicans vote for Republicans and Democrats vote for Democrats. So pollsters look at reliable exit polls, and they look at election results, and every so often they do new partisan identification polls.
And that’s what makes this such a problematic poll of Rasmussen’s for the Democrats. As the pollster noted, historically speaking:
In August 2004, the Democrats had a 2.6 percentage point advantage. In August 2006, they enjoyed a 5.4 percentage point advantage. In August 2008, the gap was 5.7 percentage points. See the History of Party Trends from January 2004 to the present.
…and if you look at the results for those years, you’ll notice that they trended between August and November in all three years towards the party that ended up ‘winning’ those particular election cycles. Which implies that the breakdown is going to be even worse for the Democrats in November. It might even be close to equal.
Why this matters is that a perennial complaint this election cycle is that pollsters keep using partisan breakdowns that assume no major changes between the fundamental makeup of the 2008 electorate and today’s. Yes, pollsters will address the enthusiasm gap – but there is a difference between a politician being down five points because of one party not being motivated to get out the vote and a politician being down five points because there are less members of that party to draw votes from. If Rasmussen is right – and there are a lot of people out there in this business who have a vested professional interest in getting Rasmussen perceived as being wrong – then the problems for the Democratic party will not be addressed in better appeals to their base; they’ll be addressed by changing the policies that are apparently driving voters into the Republican camp**.
And if they don’t, they will simply not be prepared for the psychic shock of Election Night.
Moe Lane
*Conventional wisdom is that the resulting shift from adult to likely will generally favor Republicans, which is about as true. Generally, the rule of thumb is to assume that anything that gives Democrats +2 or +3 is actually tied; this is admittedly-imprecise and not really explicable, but it more or less works anyway. If this level of imprecision bugs you, trust me: don’t get deeper into the arcana of polling. You’ll just hate it.
**It will be now that we will hear the traditional cries of “people just hate the Democrats more than they do the Republicans” and “don’t get cocky.” To which I reply, in order:
- If they hate us less than they do Democrats, then people need to be on their best behavior when greeting the new arrivals to our side of the political divide. Which includes not doing the political equivalent of making scary faces at them, rubbing dung in their hair, and/or telling them to Assume the Position.
- It’s only two months before the election. Also, the Democrats are in their mess right now themselves because they’re using political maps that are horrifically out of date. I’m willing to be receptive to the argument that we shouldn’t yet be changing our own maps and tactics to reflect the new environment; but when can we start doing that?
Crossposted to Moe Lane.
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Also...
rec0n Wednesday, September 1st at 2:54PM EST (link)“As has been the case in every month over the past eight years of tracking, there are more Democrats than Republicans in the nation. The gap is currently 1.2 percentage points. That’s the closest the Republicans have been to parity in more than five years, since July 2005.”
Perhaps if Republicans could pick a principle and stand firmly with it, that would change. Hopefully our new wave of primary winners will be able to speak eloquently to that theory. Getting them to DC in November is just the first step – they’ll be assaulted and attacked every step they take thereafter. And I expect them to be undermined and muted by the GOP establishment. I know RedState will continue to be their voice, and they’re going to need it loud and strong.
Thanks so much for all you do, RedState writers!
and on a personal note – I find people who switch partys annually based on popularity really annoying.
As Forrest Gump would say, "Polling Is as Polling Does!"
johnconradarens (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 3:38PM EST (link)…Of course, your analysis is spot-on in the sense that it will help straighten out the sampling pool later on, BUT…
The problem with ALL polling is that it tends to straight-jacket elections into the very narrow realm of popularity, and group-and-herd-think. For example, if no polling were allowed in, say, the Delaware GOP Primary Senate Race, chances are, we would be talking about what a mindless liberal the dinosaur Mike Castle is, and how thoroughly and mindfully conservative his opponent is–; rather than the fact that he’s up a billion points “in the polls”. It is an interesting commentary about cultural or political confidence that we even CARE about what the polls say currently: Our political world-view is determined by how many POTENTIAL votes someone MIGHT get?
In 1996, the main election issue was the fact that Bill Clinton was “up” 30 points against Bob Dole in the polls. The race NEVER was about governmental issues, but rather how many people were going to (supposedly) vote for Bill Clinton, and whether or not you wanted to jump aboard his bandwagon before it left the station.
The fact is, elections are not “races”. Polling only cements this metaphor. Elections are, more accurately, a print-out of the data input on a single day, by a finite group of people. In this sense, sixty days before an election is an irrelevancy. Sixty days after is crucial.
You're right, of course, John BUT
zollistar (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 4:21PM EST (link)one of our challenges may be to bring a focus to our core principles.
Our Tea Party organization keeps it simple. We’re focused on:
* Fiscal responsibility
* Free enterprise
* Limited, constitutional government
I think it’s smart to keep the issues limited, targeted and then REPEAT THEM again and again.
Also, virtually everyone is in favor of fiscal responsibility. Most people (still) favor free enterprise.
Just the basics
Logicalady (Diary) Thursday, September 2nd at 12:08PM EST (link)Exactly – the Social issues sort themselves. The humanity of a baby from the very beginning has become transparent through windows of technology and science. Prenatal care insists that children are affected from the beginning by unhealthy living sooooo – don’t hear much about that from the Left these days. Conservatives can take back and keep the lead and respect of our younger joiners by Living AND advocating for Fiscal Responsibility (from politicians as well as citizens) with Free Enterprise as the engine of society and a Limited Constitutional government. Those who want to “redesign” our government should be referred to and possibly deported with a one way ticket to any third world country where people are free to be equally poor. No incentive or protection for those wanting to rise above. There are plenty of places that is the mode of operation from their governments.
Ladyshawnee
You're right, of course, John BUT
zollistar (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 4:21PM EST (link)one of our challenges may be to bring a focus to our core principles.
Our Tea Party organization keeps it simple. We’re focused on:
* Fiscal responsibility
* Free enterprise
* Limited, constitutional government
I think it’s smart to keep the issues limited, targeted and then REPEAT THEM again and again.
Also, virtually everyone is in favor of fiscal responsibility. Most people (still) favor free enterprise.
A couple problems
calgacus (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 6:01PM EST (link)(a) Everyone claims to be fiscally responsible. Responsibility is in the eyes of the beholder. Obama could try to claim we are “irresponsible” for opposing tax hikes on those making > $250, 000. Furthermore, unless you state specific policies which Obama pursued that are in conflict with this it will be hard to do.
(b) We can say “free enterprise” but unless we are willing to call out Obama as a socialist, then how does that differentiate us? Furthermore, what is the threshold for determining what is market economy v. government run? Our education system is communistic. Yet, it is rare when someone comes up w/ any idea other than vouchers, which will go to about 3% of kids to state chosen “private” schools.
(c) A government can be limited, but that means nothing. What matters is of course what are the limits. Iran has a limited government, but the limits are much greater than what I support. As for constitutional government, that is largely a pipe dream. “States rights” is a loser. People only use it when they are about to lose a major federal vote. After all, the majority of what congress does is in violation of the Constituion.
It would be better to stick to a few specific policies by Obama
- Healthcare (close to 60% want repeal)
- The Porkulus (by 2:1 voters think it did not help the economy)
- Illegal immigration (By a 2:1 voters support the AZ law)
I would add TARP to that list also, but for the fact that most of the Republican leadership supported it.
Huh?
chabsentia Thursday, September 2nd at 7:21PM EST (link)All of this is nonsense unless you beleive that the voter is informed. We are in a Housing mess which caused the unemployment mess because in 1999 the Clinton admistration was allwed to revive Legislation that allowed people to purchase homes with no money down. Because of this artificial demand home values increased 100% between 2000-2007. Anybody with a basic understanding of Economics knows that a 100% increase in seven years is way beyond the norm. They have only came down about 35% and still have a long way to go. if you read the blogs people believe that it is the Bush tax cuts etc. The Economic Growth rate has gone from over 5% to 1.6% since August 2009 yet many out ther believe the Great Summer recovery dog and pony show. Then we have people today that still talk about the “last eight years” as they did in 2008 even though the Democrats have been the Majority party in both Houses since January 20, 2007. I have noit heard one Republican bring up the latter fact. All the Democrats have to do is get a larger number of these gullible, mis-informed and un-informed to vote and they will retain Congress.
The fact is elections ARE races driven by electoral support
Tbone (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 5:45PM EST (link)that culminates on election day. If you don’t think election funding isn’t typically driven by polls and the perception of electability, you’re delusional.
If a Sarah Palin or Tea Party endorsement wasn’t followed by money, none of those candidates could have won.
As soon as they moved up in the polls, more money flowed in which, allowed them to move up in the polls.
Oh, and: “The problem with ALL polling is that it tends to straight-jacket elections into the very narrow realm of popularity, and group-and-herd-think. ” Yep, you hit reality headon with this one, accept it and play the game because that is the game.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
The other poll that REALLY has to terrify Obama
crosley (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 4:56PM EST (link)is the recent survey in Ohio where Bush was pick over Obama 50 to 42.
That is mind-blowing, especially considering Bush was probably the worst Republican figure you could put up against Obama. Almost any one of the names being thrown around for the Republican nomination in 2012 would do much better against Obama.
In nearly every election in modern times, Ohio has been the linchpin to capturing the White House. If Ohio goes Republican by 8-10 points, I really see no plausible path for Obama to get reelected.
We may very well see a challenge to Obama for the Democrat nomination.
And that dripping noise you hear
america1st (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 6:53PM EST (link)is the shrillary shrew salivating at the idea . . . .
Logic in the mind of a liberal is like a snowflake in the desert: lost, alone and soon destroyed by a hostile environment.
I would love to see a Hillary challenge of Obama
neum432 (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 7:22PM EST (link)Just for the sheer entertainment value!
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Why?
skep41 Wednesday, September 1st at 7:55PM EST (link)If there is anyone in the country worse than Obama it is Hillary Clinton. That UN Human Rights report and the hiring of Imam Rauf should just highlight that she has NO entertainment value. Her and her hubby selling missile technology to the Chicoms that is now aimed at us is all we need to know about her. She’s meaner, greedier, more dishonest, less competent, farther to the left and more lawless even than Obama, and that’s saying something.
Obama campaign document
clintonformccain Thursday, September 2nd at 2:20AM EST (link)I doubt very much that Secretary Clinton had anything to do with that UN Report. It reads like an Obama campaign leaflet. More likely the work of UN ambassador Susan Rice, who reports to her savior Barack Obama, not the Secretary of State.
Hillary is window dressing
finaljeopardy Thursday, September 2nd at 11:12AM EST (link)to appease the “Blue Dog” Democrats. She was put in State to take the rap for Obama’s abysmal foreign policy, and she knew that. Susan Rice is a cabinet level ambassador as a check to Hillary, but both report to President Obama. In the end, it’s all pretty incestuous. Rice worked in the Clinton administration, was close with Madeleine Albright who is close with Rauf and then worked on the Obama campaign like so many Clinton retreads. It’s politics, Hillary is pragmatic, and skep41′s assessment is right IMO.
Polls or not, it's the media
gwalt Wednesday, September 1st at 5:22PM EST (link)Polls or no polls. It’s the media. Right now JounOlist II is plotting how to attack everything Conservative and have Liberals smelling like roses and beaming rays of sunshine. Don’t think ABCNBCCBS isn’t in on it!
Moe, I really wish you would get a fund going to put up billboards to question the media’s integrity. Call it our September surprise. For ONCE, the media goes on defense (sigh).
“A lot of briefing for a 2 hr. special with Dan Rather. Saw the show & wonder why we bothered”. –Ronald Reagan, The Reagan Diaries (January 27, 1982)
"...they will simply not be prepared for the psychic shock of Election Night."
bk (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 6:04PM EST (link)You mean kind of like how almost all of the economic “experts” are SHOCKED! at the results every month?
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
cwilson (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 10:07PM EST (link)The economic reporting is getting a real Captain Renault flavor, that’s for sure…
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
Precisely.
itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, September 2nd at 10:29AM EST (link)If we were going to accurately write their sentence for them it would be thus:
I am shocked that the left wing policies I have trusted and relied upon for my worldview apparently rely on nothing more tangible than unicorn farts. Their utter and complete failure to accomplish the economic miracle I expected is ummm…unexpected(?).
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
The Real Polls
skep41 Wednesday, September 1st at 7:49PM EST (link)What should, and does, scare them are the numbers of people voting in the primaries. If the vote totals in races where there are hot contests on both sides are any indication the Dems are suffering a huge deficit of votes. Missouri, Colorado and several other normally close states tell the tale. Wipeout.
Little Dick Morris is saying that Repubs will take the Senate with votes to spare.
kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 8:42PM EST (link)Of course, he isn’t the best prognosticatorr out there, but he isn’t the worse either.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Crud! Remember the #1 Rule of American Politics:
cwilson (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 10:08PM EST (link)Dick Morris is always wrong (President Hillary, anyone?)
Darnit. Now I’m depressed…
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
naw, he has actually been pretty accurate in the primaries.
kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 10:42PM EST (link)maybe he is getting better.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Well this should help too
cookcountyconservative (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 9:49PM EST (link)Labor and liberal groups to hold Oct. 2 rally on Mall to counter Beck, Tea Party By Jon Ward – The Daily Caller http://tinyurl.com/35bqute
Can we just go ahead and call this the Wellstone Memorial II now? Can you just imagine the venom that is going to spew out this event. How many D’s can this turn to R’s?
This should knock down the unemployment rate (for one day)
bk (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 10:19PM EST (link)All the hard-earned union workers whose cash is getting wasted by the union bigwigs will be hiring people left and right to show up for this.
Maybe SEIU will even spell “American” correctly this time.
Should we start a pool as to how much larger all the lefty rags say the crowd was than Beck’s?
My new favorite word
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, September 1st at 11:13PM EST (link)DOOM!!!!
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
The great thing about underrepresenting GOP voters...
vamoose Wednesday, September 1st at 11:29PM EST (link)in the polling models, is that Dems could easily end up pouring money into races that they cannot win, and leaving the next tier of “safe” candidates exposed. If you want to know how scared Dems are, watch the food fight over party/pac money.
YES!
finaljeopardy Thursday, September 2nd at 11:15AM EST (link)This is exactly why I’m looking forward to the midterms. If you thought NJ, VA and MA were fun, this is taking it to the next level.
Best said on Futurama
disintelligentsia (Diary) Thursday, September 2nd at 12:22AM EST (link)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMSHvgaUWc8
“Our peculiar security is in the possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction.” –Thomas Jefferson to Wilson Nicholas, 1803.
Mark Twain said there are three kinds of lies --
davesinsanantonio (Diary) Thursday, September 2nd at 6:29AM EST (link)lies, damned lies, and statistics. Now there are four kinds, and the worst is polling. There are polls that are “commissioned” by a party or a special interest of some kind. Do you really believe the pollster isn’t going to taint the poll to get the result the clients want??? Who will ever commission another poll by them if they don’t get the results they want???
Ever notice that large splits in the polls diminish as we get closer to the actual voting day? Or, sometimes reverse altogether? Then the pollsters can say their poll was accurate, because people only remember the reports just before the election anyway. But up to that point many pollsters are trying to sway public opinion, not report it. They know that people want to back a winner, not a loser, so they try to make their client, or their dream, look like the horse to bet on.
Moe, I disagree
MOlsen6 (Diary) Thursday, September 2nd at 12:24PM EST (link)The Rasmussen poll is certainly a bas sign for Dems, but I found a poll that I thought was even worse for the Democrats. It is a poll from Public Policy Polling on the Kasich versus Strickland race. Although this result was NOT mentioned in the PPP summary, the data appeared down below:
Who would you rather have as President:
George W. Bush or Barack Obama?
George W. Bush ……………………………………… 50%
Barack Obama………………………………………… 42%
Not sure …………………………………………………. 7%
This is from the State of Ohio. If Ohio favors Bush by 8 points over Obama, what does this say about the Democrats tactic of linking every candidate to Bush as a smear using a noun, a verb, and Bush? This poll suggests that their own ads are actually HELPING Republicans and conservatives, not huring them. Losing their major talking point, the only thing really going for Democrats and Obama … that is what I would call DOOM.
MOlsen6
One Librul that's starting to figure it out...
cbc80 Thursday, September 2nd at 4:17PM EST (link)http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/wehner/352621
Sometimes we hold to theories that are simply wrong, that are contrary to human nature and the way the world works, but we simply can’t let go of them. We have too much invested in a particular philosophy.
President Obama’s liberal supporters understand that he is in serious trouble right now; what they are doing is scrambling to find some way to explain his problems without calling into question their underlying political philosophy (modern liberalism). If what is happening cannot be a fundamental failure of liberalism, then it must be something else — from a “communications problem” to “structural factors” to a political conspiracy. And you can bet that if things continue on their present course, ideologues on the left will increasingly argue that Obama’s failures stem from his being (a) not liberal enough or (b) incompetent.
If the Obama presidency is seen as damaging the larger liberal project, they will abandon Obama in order to try to protect liberalism. They would rather do that than face an existential crisis
Contract with America
blackdog911 Friday, September 3rd at 6:13AM EST (link)Revive the Newt era contract with some specific changes.
1. No earmarks
2. Cut Government spending 20% from DAY ONE.
3. Secure the borders
4. repeal Obamacare
5. Turn the military loose and let them win.
6. Stand with Israel not against them.
7. Balance budget Act
8. Term limits (hard but wishful thinking)
9. Keep Bush tax cuts.
10. Be proud of this country not apologetic.
This is my top ten and I would enjoy seeing yours.
too ambitious
kyle8 (Diary) Friday, September 3rd at 6:49AM EST (link)let them all run on just numbers 1-4. Those at least are immediatly doable.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Hope and change
blackdog911 Monday, September 6th at 2:27PM EST (link)Agreed but one can “hope for change” don’t you think?