No, Ma’am


Promoted from the diaries – ed.

A year ago, Barbara Boxer – my state’s junior senator – made news across the country when, during a Senate Committee hearing, she laid into Brigadier General Michael Walsh of the Corps of Engineers. BGen Walsh made the mistake of calling her “Ma’am” in answering a question. She went off on Walsh telling him to call her “Senator” as she had worked so hard for the title.

For many military people and veterans who don’t track political news day-to-day and are relatively apolitical (that was me, until recently), it was one of a handful of political news items to cross our radar. I remember my reaction at the time—a brief “what the hell has her knickers all in a bunch” question, knowing that Walsh was paying her a compliment.

Later, however, I thought about my reaction to the incident and began to see it in an altogether different and more serious light. Barbara Boxer after so many years in the Senate has no idea at all of the culture of the Armed Forces of the United States. She literally does not understand the requirements incumbent on those who have sworn the Oath, to support and defend our Constitution against all enemies.

Boxer has a deplorable record when it comes to the most critical military issue: Troop funding. In 1991, she voted against a supplemental to support troops on the ground in Kosovo. In 2001, she voted against $847M to fund much needed mission critical and force protection maintenance. And in 2003, unlike our senior senator, Dianne Feinstein, Boxer voted with only 12 other Senators to try to defeat a $87B supplemental for supporting troops in the field and their families at home.

The fact is: Boxer is no friend of the military or veterans, and for me, that’s reason number one why she needs to go this November.

For other Californians, there will be other reasons. Recently, a friend of mine who I have known since Vietnam was talking about the water problem in the San Joaquin Valley. He has been trying to find a way around the federal government’s moves to cut water to the farmers in that area– shutting down farms and agribusiness because of concerns regarding a small fish that lives in the area. Barbara Boxer has been the driving force behind these out-of-kilter efforts that put fish before families, and those living in a now dried-up former breadbasket where unemployment stands at over 20% know it.

That’s another good reason why Boxer needs to be retired.

But for those of us who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution, which is now under a furious attack thanks to figures like Boxer, we now have two good reasons to send Ms. Boxer home, and send Carly Fiorina to Washington.

Steve Richmond served in the U.S. Marine Corps and is the Statewide Chair of Veterans for Carly.


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24 Comments Leave a comment

Godspeed

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 12:47PM EST (link)

I no longer live within Senator Boxer’s fuedal demense, but I’m still impacted by having that idiot in charge of things important. Thank you for speaking out. I exhort you to work hard and drive her out of power.

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

 

That clip of Boxer and General Walsh...

mdyou (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 1:29PM EST (link)

…should be an important component of Fiorina’s campaign. It shows her to be the kind of petulant, self-centered political slime of which voters are becoming increasingly disgusted.

Boxer should be portrayed as the mastermind of the Delta shrimp fiasco. She’s chairman of the senate Committee on the Environment and Public Works, and the destruction she has wrought on this issue is almost incomprehensible.

We conservative Californians must hammer this imbecile from now until November.

 

Same Question I Always Have

exitsfunnel Wednesday, June 16th at 1:31PM EST (link)

Every time that incident comes up, I always have the same question, which seems to me to be the obvious one: how did General Walsh address the males members of the committeel? As ‘senator’ or as ‘sir?’ If the former, then her complaint was justified (though probably still better as a practical matter to have just ignored it) but if the latter, then she really has deserved all of the criticism she’s received.

-exits

No, even that wouldn't excuse it

Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 1:32PM EST (link)

And she deserves it all regardless.

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Why wouldn't it?

exitsfunnel Wednesday, June 16th at 1:37PM EST (link)

If he were addressing the males as ‘Senator’, but singling her out as ‘ma’am’, why wouldn’t her complaint be justified?

It's simple.

mdyou (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 1:39PM EST (link)

It’s because she’s a moron.

 

Protocol

callawyn (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 2:21PM EST (link)

Its actually worse, this goes beyond petulance. My understanding is that ‘Ma’am’ is the proper protocol for a military officer speaking directly to a female Senator. She was therefore dressing down an officer, on national tv, for failing to show the proper deference when in fact he was, and she was demanding more than she was entitled to.

She was dead wrong any way you look at it, and as mentioned above, Carly should make full use of the incident as it is very revealing about her opponent.

 

Do your own homework.

Uma Richie (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 2:24PM EST (link)

I understand your point. I found the Library of Congress website transcripts of the proceedings last year and was satisfied to see both “Sir” and “Ma’am” used.

A little bit of keyboard initiative on your part would have saved Neil some typing.

Not sure about now, or since that exchange...

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 3:10PM EST (link)

…but Sir and M’am were accepted, even preferred protocol titles in the 70′s, the same any soldier would use use for a superior office.

That said, had the general replied what I would have replied, he could have been brought up on charges, (Art 133). Civilians wouldn’t.

I was corrected once by

Uma Richie (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 4:10PM EST (link)

an O-6 Chief of Staff. I don’t remember the exact exchange, but I was a LTJG and it was my first meal in an Admiral’s mess. The Chief of Staff was the senior person at dinner. I entered the mess and as I would in the wardroom, said, “May I join you, Sir,” to which he replied, “Staff!” I wasn’t sure what had happened, but one of the staff officers had mercy and translated that upon entering the mess, “Sir” just didn’t cut it. So I did what I was supposed to do and had a miserable meal. I still don’t know why protocol requires everyone to call the Admiral’s right hand “Staph,” but if the name fits…

Anyway, I felt it necessary to look at the context of the Boxer exchange last year because I believe that a person can sound respectful while displaying disdain that falls just short of insubordination. It was important for me to confirm that BGen Walsh had not been egging her on. He clearly was not.

BGen Walsh showed great restraint in his response, but I reserve my most ardent admiration for Admiral Willard and his ability to maintain military bearing in his testimony before Rep. Hank “Guam Tipping” Johnson.

Interesting. I was Army so unaware the Navy had such a protocol.

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 8:53AM EST (link)

My 3-star never had that requirement nor all the other 0-7′s and up I ever encountered.

Still, the point is made that Boxer established a rule that applies only to her, I assume, and would not apply to me.

The Navy Mess is a whole different world vassar.

nessa (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 11:20AM EST (link)

I got to spend a couple weeks on a Navy Ship during Katrina. The Chief’s Mess was absolutely excellent! A nice quiet spot, with good strong coffee, where the CPOs and NCOs could “let their hair down” so to speak. There was a poor unsuspecting Army 03 who wandered in by accident one day during lunch. I would have loved to see Senator Boxer get a little of what that Major got. The Chief of the Boat started with rhetorical questions like “WTF are you and WTF are you doing in my mess? Have you lost your [ever lovin'] mind?” The questions continued in ever increasing volume until the Major beat a hasty retreat. I must admit, even with 20 years of Army Service, that made me wonder if I’d enlisted in the wrong branch. Senator Boxer wants to earn something? Let her sit in front of a promotion board.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

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My brother was Command Master Chief...

Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 12:36PM EST (link)

…yep, that ‘s how they did. Not even admiral’s infringed on their turf.

 

I'll tell you nessa, if it weren't for the Chief's mess,

Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, June 18th at 12:22AM EST (link)

very little would get done on the ship. In addition to the good food, coffee, and camaraderie, the seclusion allows E-7-E-9 from different departments to iron out issues and coordinate projects in an informal setting.

My experience (although dated, limited to aircraft carriers, and not necessarily typical) is that the ship’s officers’ wardroom and the Flag mess are much more formal.

 
 

But wouldn't it be fun to testify

Uma Richie (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 11:50PM EST (link)

before the same committee and call all the other senators “Sir” or “Ma’am” and then when replying specifically to Babs, say “Senator” with just enough slow, clear enunciation to make a mockery of her, but not enough to lose plausible deniability in case you were called out on it?

And yes, I definitely got your point.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Since when is Ma'am not a proper sign of respect?

RedBeard Wednesday, June 16th at 3:16PM EST (link)

If it’s considered proper, traditional, and respectful to call the Queen of England “Ma’am,” I’d say any senator should be quite well satisfied with the same respecful term. Boxer should count herself lucky to be addressed as Ma’am under any circumstances.

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

When everyday ordinary common courtesy

lineholder (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 5:35PM EST (link)

being displayed from one citizen to another citizen is maligned and belittled in public (which it was), we’ve come a long way from “civilized society”.

 

When first encountering the Queen's presence

romeg Wednesday, June 16th at 5:48PM EST (link)

one addresses her as “Your Majesty”. Thereafter she may be addressed as Ma’am.

I believe that early in his testimony the General addressed this harridan as Senator thereby having fulfilled the dictates of protocol and his subsequent.

Boxer seized this opportunity to prove to the world just what a B**ch she really is.

“Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C. S. Lewis

 
 

One more thing about that senate hearing...

mdyou (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 3:59PM EST (link)

…I’ll wager that less than 2% of California voters have seen that clip. That’s why Fiorina needs to be using it on TV.

Carly, just play the clip. It doesn’t even require commentary. Just the disclosure, “I’m Carly Fiorina and Barbara Boxer approved this video.”

 

I seem to recall that "No Ma'am" stood for

throwback59 Wednesday, June 16th at 5:09PM EST (link)

National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood.
Seems appropriate.

 

Video

Robert A. Hahn (Diary) Wednesday, June 16th at 10:14PM EST (link)

Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you’re dead.

 

Babs Boxer, SO YESTERDAY

ratchett Thursday, June 17th at 4:38AM EST (link)

Carly Fiorina was so right in saying that Boxer’s hair is so yesterday, but it goes much further than that. She is an arrogant, repulsive, Progressive who has stumbled blindly through her career. She is an embarrassment to her constituents, to CA, and to the U.S, a power mongering old bag who will be gone in Nov.

 

Just today I addressed a judge as "ma'am..."

MikeWas (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 8:43PM EST (link)

…and sometimes address male judges as “sir.” Technically, it’s not correct form to do so, but sometimes it just slips out.

I’ve never had a judge get bunched up about it. As long as the tone is properly respectful, and counsel is otherwise respectful of the court (being properly prepared, not wasting the court’s time, etc.) then it’s never an issue.

Although I am just now considering how it is that our term of respect for an accomplished woman is a bastardization of the Anglo-French word “madame.”

My mother doesn't like being called "ma'am."

Menlo (Diary) Thursday, June 17th at 9:43PM EST (link)

She says it makes her feel old. Of course she’d never tell anyone outside her family and close friends.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter