we rightly complain of leftist indoctrination on college campuses. We rightly say people have a right to say what is not popular. These are Liberty University students, not Berkely radicals. This decision was wrong on its merits, politically tone deaf, and will do nothing but hurt our cause.

charge against indoctrination is a little harsh, IMO.

Unlike going to State U, students enter Liberty knowing full well what environment they are choosing.

It’s a private institution with overtly stated beliefs. It’s refreshing to see a group take a stance knowing it’ll be unpopular w/ the masses.

Oops, I said masses. No pun intended.

Liberals banned ROTC from campuses based on the premise that the “no ask, no tell” policy of the Armed Forces made ROTC just as guilty. Good for the goose good for the gander.

who guiding principles are LIFE should make every aspect of the college experience be about LIFE…..OBTW if you don’t like it pick a state college they will accept and support your right to kill the unborn and a Democrat club that supports the Democrat plank SUPPORTS DEATH! no ifs, no and, no buts about that! go whine to the ultimate in death sport the ACLU!

I see this as the silent majority finally speaking up and standing on their principles. It’s about time some have gotten the guts together to follow through on what they believe, rather than sitting quietly and allowing the Democrats to own every debate. The D’s will twist it, as they always do, it is expected. Too bad the folks at Notre Dame felt compelled to allow Obama to tell the graduates to compromise on one of the Catholic religions core values and beliefs, protecting life from conception to natural death. There are no gray areas there, only black and white. One cannot be just a little “pregnant.”

with my brother-in-law a couple of months ago, when he had no problem providing a platform to Bill Ayers at his children’s school in Naperville to spout off his views on social justice. “You’ve got to go with free speech”, he told me.! Bah! Let him have all the street corners and bullhorns he needs – there is no need to provide him with a podium in front of your children!

Like terrorism – there is no middle ground, or “common ground” on abortion.

I’m reminded of something I read at the Anchoress a while back,

“We have the tools and guidelines, and we must be prepared to live them – no matter what the times bring – live them, righteously and fearlessly, understanding that many, many will seek the world and its answers, because the way of the world appears easier. The world can be touched, seen, smelt, it seems like the reality, and they cling to it. For the rest of us, all we can do is be faithful. Will it be scary? Yes. Will we be abandoned? Not on your life. Do not be afraid, and just keep moving on to the next right thing, and then the next.”

the operative word is CONGRESS…

Free speech is guaranteed from government censorship. Universities, businesses and organizations are free to make whatever rules they choose.

(Except, of course, banks, financial institutions, Wall Street, GM or Chrysler)

as well as individuals. Liberty University has a perfect right to disavow its association with any organization it wishes.

I only take exception to its allowing the Democrats to still meet on campus. It has a perfect right, as a private organization, to decide which organizations may use its private facilities. It has no obligation to make them available to any and all comers. Imagine, for instance, these were the Campus Skinheads, rather than Campus Democrats, who wanted to meet on the Liberty Campus.

If this is political tone deafness, I’ll take it any day of the week over Notre Dame’s political hip-and-with-itness.

Would a private Israeli university allow neo-Nazis to form a group on campus? Would BYU allow an athiest club? If a student group espouses a message that runs entirely counter to the mission of the private university, then they have every right to shut the group down. It is simply not possible for someone who supports the Democratic Party, and therefore mass infanticide, to be a real Christian.

…as conflicting with the missions of the secular liberal arts colleges across the country, which outnumber the Libertys, Oral Robertses, Hillsdales, Pepperdines and BYUs by about 500 to 1.

Liberty should recognize that it is possible, especially in the South, for a student to support a party generally without endorsing every single one of its policies.

Such a stance attracts a lot more negative press than it’s worth.

One fundamental issue is the Democratic Party Club violated Liberty University’s mission. At a very primary level, participating students knew that taking specific controversial positions or actions opposed to Christian teachings would be the nexus of conflict.

While parties represent many different ideas, to knowingly allow promotion of positions which have been factually, philosophically and idealistically explicated as counter to the very reason for one’s existence is existentially antithetical and contra intellectual.

People seeking guidance have many places to go in order to be indoctrinated by contemporary liberal philosophy which often forgoes existential value, morals and basic religious beliefs for destructive political exigency.

Liberty, rightfully and legally, is an island of exception in a sea of indoctrinated cultural morass forced upon us by those not willing to participate in debate, hiding behind feigned constitutional rights and using any other manner of deflection to avoid complete, factual discussion.

So you will forgive me if I chortle when this is framed as a First Amendment conversation. I obviously reject that premise as it appears to be a misguided self-projection of the oppositions status. Once again, is is being adopted to use victim-hood and oppression as part of their argumental basis: very humorous.

I am certain Liberty is willing to have the doctrinal debate about abortion, gay marriage, et al and how it stands in opposition to fundamental Christian beliefs. I suspect that when discussed from a religious perspective which teaches God is the source and proliferator of all life, it may be a bit more difficult for make a case that interfering or promoting policies contrary to that belief is somehow “principled”. No wonder liberal progressives are trying to “kill” God.

I will reiterate my point that parties represent a number of ideas to state that terminating their club was wrong. But Liberty realized this, ensured the universities imprimatur was not weakened or left to question.

When you mercilessly butcher the English language, as you did in the title and subhead of this post, it makes me a Sad Panda.

Here’s your tip for the day from the Correct Grammar and Usage Panda: Always proofread your work — and, if you aren’t sure about the correctness of your usage, LOOK IT UP!

I’m sure this diary was spirited in its provocation of outrage; unfortunately, I never got past the subheading, thanks to its mutilation of proper English.

Thanks!

-Correct Grammar and Usage Panda

Why? Because they are willing to violate the constitution. They are willing to sacrifice innocent unborn children. They have sided with marxism, secularism, and everything opposed to Judeo Christian values.

Whether or not they are fully within their rights to do this is not the issue Warner. The issue is that it’s a stupid idea. Free speech doesn’t always refer to the RIGHT of free speech, it can also refer to the PRINCIPLE of free speech. The school is in violation of that age old principle.

Second, they list “Socialism” as a reason for banning the college Democrats? Seriously!? I’m hardly a solid conservative on everything, but if my school banned the College Republicans because they opposed higher taxes for the rich I’d be out there protesting and you’d be cheering me on every step of the way.

This whole decision by LU is simply a childish attempt to stick a finger in the eye of the other side.

I applaud Liberty and say a resounding AMEN! To people who believe, no matter how honestly, that a Christian can be a Democrat today this should slap some sense into you. If you claim Christ, even to the smallest portion of your soul, you cannot condone the flippancy with which the Dems deal with the murder of human beings. Giving even one ounce of validation to the present incarnation of the Democrat Party reduces the impact of your faith on others.

the word “KILL”.

If you dare to use it in relation to the word “abortion”, then you are guilty of hate speech in their eyes, trying to make people uncomfortable about choosing something that should NEVER be a comfortable choice.

Obama asked for a dialog on abortion.

Would he dare to ask for a dialog on killing the unborn?

Sometimes, circumstances may make necessary some very nasty things, but covering them up in euphemisms does not change what they are.

-

with Liberty University’s principled, brave and true decision. scumsuckers don’t deserve to spread their vile filth among good people.

Frankly, I think we should “de-certify” the national Democrat Socialist Party. They are traitors. They should be in jail, or at least tried and given a chance to denounce their affiliation.

I’ve been following court cases regarding such issues in higher education for over 6 years now. During college I felt that my university was infringing on my free speech rights and I contacted The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE – www.thefire.org) for help. I’ve been following the cases that they handle ever since. FIRE is a non-partisan group that defends students against infringement of constitutional rights of due process, free speech, freedom of conscience, religious liberty, as well as other breaches of law. They’ve defended Christian clubs at public universities who have been disbanded because they would not allow gays to be club leaders. They’ve defended Muslim groups who were also disbanded because they too refused to bend on their religious views. They have exposed residential life (i.e dorm) programs that indoctrinate students to adhere to certain social views. And hundreds of other cases and issues. Their website is good place to read up to get an INFORMED opinion on the current subject at hand. Actually, they produce a number of handbooks on these issues so students can inform themselves about their rights. If you would like to read up on some of these items, click on over to their page that lists their handbooks by subject (free speech, due process, etc.) and has quick links to all the cases pertaining to that subject (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/4978.html).

The current issue at hand is of the right of a private university to limit freedom of association or speech. Many have mentioned that a private university is not bound by the constitutional requirements of freedom of speech and association, and rightly so. But there are other issues at play in deciding whether Liberty would actually win a lawsuit by this group. I will excerpt a few paragraphs from one of FIRE’s manuals, which will enlighten us all on the subject (and at the end I will link to some current and former cases that FIRE is involved with that deal with the exact issue at hand):

“Private universities and colleges stand in a different relation to the Constitution than governmental institutions such as public universities and colleges. The Constitution limits only government action. Because a private college or university is not a governmental entity, it does not have to obey the First Amendment. Voluntary associations in the private society are a vital part of American freedom. The fact that a private institution is not bound by the Constitution, however, does not mean that it is not bound by the rule of law. Many private schools choose by their own formal and advertised policies to hold themselves to certain standards regarding freedom of speech, due process, diversity of opinion, academic freedom, and the protection of individual conscience. A private school that claims to adhere to such policies may be required under state laws that apply to contract or fraud to live up to its own internal standards—in this case, the protection of freedom of speech. Such policies might compel a private college or university to distribute student fees in a viewpoint neutral manner or prevent it from ordering a controversial student group to disband because the school objects to the views expressed by the group. The law does not permit breach of contract or fraud. This model might apply to private universities and colleges that promote no distinct ideological or religious belief system, or, above all, that promise certain standards of nondiscrimination, legal equality, and academic freedom. An institution that induces students to attend by promising legal equality, variety of viewpoints, and nondiscrimination may not break those promises with impunity.”

“By contrast, if a private college or university is organized around a specific set of ideological or political beliefs, then the First Amendment protects its right to require students to fund speech that promotes the beliefs of the college. Students attending a private school established around a clear system of belief have no legal right to demand that the school allow dissenters to express conflicting views on campus. The First Amendment’s right of association protects the right of those private schools to promote their specific ideological or religious beliefs. A private college or university may not in good faith present itself as a secular liberal arts institution that guarantees a student’s right to free expression but then, in practice, further a particular ideological or religious agenda by funding only organizations that promote that agenda. Such a practice would arguably violate the contractual obligation that the institution has undertaken to the student to whom it has promised a liberal arts education in a setting in which the free marketplace of ideas prevails. (When a vendor advertises one product but then offers a different one in its place, that is known as “bait and switch.” When a vendor claims to sell you one product but secretly substitutes another, that act is known as “fraud.”) “

As you can see, whether Liberty can legally justify decertification of this club really depends on what their own policies are. I’ve quickly browsed through some of the school’s policies but nothing jumped out at me as being explicit as a policy on policies on freedom of speech, due process, diversity of opinion, academic freedom, or protection of individual conscience. Although it is very clear that certain activities are not tolerated at Liberty. If anyone else wants to browse through the documentation you can find it here:

Student Code of Conduct: https://www.liberty.edu/media/1210/Code%20of%20Conduct%20Revised%203_09%20LATEST.pdf

However, I was able to find a published policy on forming a club at Liberty. This can be found at http://www.liberty.edu/studentaffairs/sga/index.cfm?PID=18419 and is excerpted here:

“Student clubs or organizations must request and receive permission from the Liberty University administration before they may meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use any University facilities for their activities or events. All such clubs or organizations and their activities or events must be consistent with the University’s mission, and must be and remain in compliance with the Liberty Way, the Honor Code, and any policies or procedures promulgated by the University. The University reserves the right to refuse the use of its facilities for any reason to any student club, organization, activity or event.”

“Consistent with the Honor Code, all students, student clubs and organizations, faculty and staff of Liberty University, have a responsibility to uphold the moral and ethical standards of this institution and personally confront those who do not.”

“No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group (even if the similarly named group is not the actual parent, affiliate or chapter) are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University, the Liberty Way, the Honor Code, or the policies and procedures promulgated by the University. “

Legally, I’m not sure if this would hold up if there are contradictory policies in other official university policies, but at this point I have been unable to find any. I leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

Here are a few links to current or recent cases that deal with freedom of speech or association at private universities for those who are interested in the subject:
Speech codes at Columbia University: http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/10583.html
Speech codes at University of Pennsylvania: http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/10617.html
The Duke rape case: http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/10584.html

And more resources:
Handbook on due process at private universities: http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/due-process-3.pdf
Handbook on fees and funding at private universities: www.thefire.org/pdfs/student-fees-5.pdf

Will this move effect employment prospects for graduates of the university in the secular job market? I somehow doubt that a company run by a big time Democrat will be sending recruiting teams to Liberty University looking for potential employees. I think the same will hold true for most companies in the secular world of business.

Liberty has every right to set what they believe is the moral values of their institution, including banning the Democratic party, but the secular world of business will also eventually have a say too.

be surprised if a Jewish Orthodox school was found to have a “pork cooking club” and the school then banned it?

This is religious principles, not political ones.
As a Catholic, I’m embarassed by Notre Dame’s actions. Notre Dame’s actions are a demonstration of being faithful to your Church, until it’s hard, then just cave or roll over.

No wonder there are no leaders anymore.

Good for Liberty.

For the record, I’m with GC on the action in and of itself: I initially had a fairly strong reaction against the decision, as it seems to violate the ideas of the free exchange of ideas. Now that they have backed off of their initial statements, I don’t have much objection.

However, this was a terrible idea both from a PR standpoint, and from a service standpoint. Liberty has the responsibility to its students and alum to give them the best possible opportunity to seek jobs in the marketplace after graduation, and stunts like this one, no matter how “principled”, are going to be seen (rightly) as unprofessional.

If the Republican Party is looking for some testosterone they can find it at Liberty University. So far this college has the guts and courage to do the right thing.

You can be a Christian and a Dem as long as you are Christian first and Dem second. Too bad the national dem party wants it the other way around.

I didn’t see this mentioned in all the yammering above, my apologies if I missed it.

“Over the last several decades, Democratic clubs have existed at Liberty University as unofficial student clubs not endorsed by the school. Last Fall, the College Democrats asked that the university officially recognize their club. They promised to support only pro-life candidates and their charter provides that the club supports the right to life. Unfortunately, the club supported candidates over the last 8 months that support abortion rights. As a result, Liberty University converted the club’s status back to that of an unrecognized club. It was not banned as so many press outlets irresponsibly reported. The club can continue to exist and meet on campus like other clubs and student groups that are not officially recognized by the university. They cannot use Liberty University’s name, will not receive the small financial subsidy that officially recognized clubs receive (about $500 per year on average) and they cannot hold public events on campus. There will be no other restrictions on their activities. Liberty University encourages free speech and open debate on its campus and free speech will not be restricted.” – Liberty University Office of the Chancellor

Case closed.

I really cant believe anyone on this forum would really support the choice made by liberty university. Besides the fact that the decision completely flies in the face of the name of the university it is just a bad decision. When I debate liberals I am extremely careful not to fall into the behaviors that define many libs. I dont hurl personal attacks, I avoid using strawmen, and most of all I have the intellectual integrity to recognize when an idea put for by the other side may actually have some merit.

Now let it be said I am much closer to the libertarian mindset than republican. I dont think abortion should be banned, it should be put to the states to decide, I think the war on drugs is the dumbest war since the war on poverty, quite honestly at this point I am accepting gay marriage because I think any honest appraisal of the situation shows that its gonna happen. This response may get me labeled a troll, but unlike liberals I really do not care what anyone else thinks.

just look at what McCain-Feingold did.

A poster suggested that Liberty Graduates may be discriminated against by their college choice. I beg to differ. I know scores of Liberty graduates that have excellent careers. One nationally know woman is Shannon Bream, formerly of NBC’s Channel 4 in Washington and now Supreme Court Reporter for Fox News.

I am delighted that my daughter chose Liberty. I researched it myself as well and found to be exactly the kind of school all parents might want for their son or daughter. I was very concerned about ‘throwing my daughter to the wolves’ at some other university.

Everything about the school revolves around the student best interests. Student behavior and accountability is of highest caliber because that is what is expected of them.

These students are being taught what most other American public universities have abdicated long ago in favor of liberal dogma. Liberty students are well prepared scholastically, and are taught what it takes to be good citizens.

Perhaps these Christian College Democrats will see that marching in lockstep with the DNC on matters that are important to Christians will prompt them to stand up to the DNC and make change from within the party.

Lastly, if you don’t like the rules at Liberty, don’t go there or send your children there.

Porter Jervis.