Alright all you right-wing thugs out there, now that tax day is over, Obama and his pals are saying you are dangerous and that your tax protests are an act of revolution. It is amusing that they’ve never said that with the many riots past and present spread by left-wingers in the US — after all little “right-wing” violence has ever been seen here — but there you have it. It’s all YOU. Not the Animal Rights activists that constantly engage in assault, not the rock throwers of anti-WTO protests, not ACORN and union thugs, and not the Envro Nazis that have engaged in actual terrorism all across the country. YOU are the threat we’ve been waiting for.
But there is an indelicate question inherent in the whole subject of protests, left or right. Just when is actual violence justified? How much violence, what sort of violence, violence directed at who or what? The organization of protest is fraught with questions that are not comfortable to contemplate in polite society, questions that lay unasked just under the surface. Indeed, it should be realized that protests are not polite in the first place. They are all spurred by anger, whether righteously invoked or not, and anger is not a polite emotion.
Of course, for the last eight years, the left crowed about how “patriotic” it was to protest government. In fact, many seemed to imagine that the mere act itself of protesting government indeed made one a patriot. Clearly this is a foolish concept. After all, the true measure of the patriotic nature of a protest is in the character and purpose of that protest, not in the simple fact that a protest was organized. If one were to arrange a protest to urge the nation to become an Islamic theocracy (or a Christian one, for that matter) one clearly would not be engaging in a patriotic protest. But to protest, say, the elimination of the teaching of American history in our schools, well that would be a patriotic protest.
Still, it is especially revealing that America’s ill informed leftists are now tsk tsking the current Tax Day Tea Party protests that are drawing hundreds of thousands of citizens to protest the abuse of government being perpetrated by the Obama administration. Apparently the much ballyhooed idea that protesting government in and of itself is a patriotic endeavor is suddenly out of fashion among the left as they have assumed (or have assumed they have assumed) controlling power in Washington.
And on the heels of that Democrat take over we have seen the frightening abuse of policing powers evinced by Obama’s Department of Homeland Security that has released a so-called threat assessment that seems to assume that every American that holds center right views is dangerous and declaring that nearly half the electorate is prone to “right-wing terrorism.” This sort of fascist pigeon-holing of Obama’s internal political enemies as potential terrorists is exactly the sort of effort that itself creates the very worries among the center right the report claims to be warning about.
It cannot be forgotten, though, that our very nation was founded on protest and not a non-violent one either. There was much destruction of private property, quite a lot of violence, and even many deaths in cities all across the 13 Colonies as American Patriots geared up to separate from the Motherland. Taxmen in several major Colonial cities found themselves attacked by their neighbors and were often physically harmed in those attacks. They had their customs houses, even their private residences, destroyed during the revolt, too. Several times riots occurred during which government troops appeared firing into crowds killing citizens. Some of these protests even occurred in England itself with the same result. Then, of course, there was war. Often that war was internecine and vicious between those living among us.
But we have somewhat of a myth on our hands that guides the initial concept of protests: that non-violent protests always work if the protests are large enough. We often point to the success of Mahatma Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. as proof that non-violence works. The problem with those examples is that even as Gandhi and King were steadfastly sticking with their convictions of non-violence, others on their side were not. Both in Reverend King’s Jim Crow U.S. and Gandhi’s English controlled India violence on both sides of the divide was surrounding them. This is not to say their efforts were a sham, but only to remind everyone that their efforts alone were not the sole factor in success.
And then we have to realize the other part of protests: solutions. There is one reason that governments reverse track on issues that cause mass protests and that one reason is fear. Totalitarian governments deal with that fear by mass arrests, torture and killings. Democratic nations deal with that fear by revisiting policies and, perhaps, changing them. But even in democratic nations, violence often occurs before that eventual solution comes to fruition. A threat of violence and upheaval is by far a better motivation for policy shift than non-violent protests. And, to be sure, even non-violent protests are just on the edge of the fear of mass upheaval and violence that forces change. In any case, the threat is inherent.
There is also the unpredictability factor when protests occur. After all, as I said, anger is the motivating factor of any protest. Emotions are high and some people can’t maintain that non-violent demeanor for long when amongst the emotional high of a mass protest. Additionally, some people never intend non-violence in the first place and use the excuse of a protest to indulge their inner anarchist. These sorts of people are often the catalyst for government overreaction via the police or military. Here I am reminded of my favorite quote from the 1968 Democratic Convention where Chicago’s Mayor Richard J. Daley told reporters that the Chicago police weren’t there to cause disorder, they were there to preserve disorder. Ah, the man was truly an ignoramus.
Now, being aware that these intense emotions lie just under the surface of a protest is a must for organizers of such things. To imagine that everyone will comport themselves as if observing civilized Marquis of Queensbury Rules is not a given. Furthermore, we can’t merely assume that mass non-violent protests will force government to make the policy shifts that the protesters desire. It didn’t work for the anti-war nuts over the last eight years, did it?
And now we come back full circle. When is violence justified? Certainly we have seen by history that sometimes it is unavoidable even if not altogether desired. It is also a sometimes effective tool to effect change. Further it is something that our own countrymen have used effectively, indeed a tool with which we gave birth to the nation. Some of our most respected founders advocated violence, we must realize.
It may seem ominous, but violence is sometimes acceptable depending on the cause. Would you be prone to violence if you were a Chinese citizen protesting the evil Red government there? I would imagine most Americans would say violence would be acceptable in that case. Certainly every true American would agree that our founders’ violence against the oppressions of the English Crown was justified. But we are not now experiencing a similar oppression as that of Mad King George or the communist monsters of China.
So what about today? What about now? Of course, a dispassionate review of where we are today would tend to say that tax day violence is not justified in any way. But are future tax protests as off limits to violence if government does not heed the warnings delivered now? Even more to the point does a flat refusal to ever employ violence encourage recalcitrant government to ignore protests safely assuming that no real consequences for their actions will ever be imposed on them?
Of course we should avoid violence during these protests today. I am for sure not advocating a resort to violence. But if elections and the democratic process fail to impress government officials against their habits where does that leave future protests? Where does that leave the necessary policy changes?
These are subjects we all must carefully think about, historical lessons we must all drink in, all of it directing our actions now. It is the age-old question that should not be dismissed out of hand, questions that often come to bedevil protest movements. Government officials also must take heed before their arrogance leads us all down that road that we do not want to travel.
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Did you see...
DerKrieger (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 7:59AM EST (link)(Posted this in the wrong place previously:)
Did you see the pro-illegal immigration thugs at UNC Chapel Hill shut down Tom Tancredo’s speech? Why doesn’t DHS investigate these people? At one time during the ‘protest’ a brick or rock was thrown through the window.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ7vcgQjkDQ
“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690
am I a blood thirsty right wing extremist??
Jack (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 8:28AM EST (link)Humm let me do the checklist:
Catholic CHECK
Retired Army Veteran CHECK
Pro-life CHECK
Attended a tea party CHECK
Member of the NRA CHECK
Life Member of the NRA BIG BOLD DOUBLE CHECK
Gun owner CHECK
Oh my I can see Rahm Emmanuel doing the dumpster dive now to investigate my garbage. To quote Popeye ” I am what I am.”
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
You'd think...
sloeride Thursday, April 16th at 8:38AM EST (link)…an unapologetic admitted terrorist would make the list.
www.irsmedic.com: Real tax attorneys for tough tax problems
This coming from a man who's friends with a real terrorist!
spreadthered (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 9:16AM EST (link)Funny how Obama and his administration can call the tea party goers terrorist or violent or anything else when Obama’s buddy, Bill Ayers, actually used bombs and had full intentions of destroying our country had he had the brains and followers to do so.
I think the left is extremely disappointed today that they are not able to report any violence and problems at any of the tea parties! Homeland’s report comes out calling right-wing people radical extremist and terrorist yet hundreds of thousands of these so called terrorist met across the country yesterday and not one incident. I can’t remember a left wing protest of more than 20 people that didn’t at least require pepper spray. Hell, even the speech at UNC the other day required pepper spray and there were maybe 20 protesters.
The liberal left has nothing to be proud of and that, my friends, is the reason why liberals are liberal. They have no pride whatsoever, not in themselves, not in their beliefs, and certainly not in this country. They live a very miserable life!
If Democrats accuse us of something, that's the surest sign
Achance (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:15PM EST (link)they’re doing it. They call us terrorists because they can’t escape their associations with terrorists. Pelosi is all over the TV talking about how at the Tea Partiers were duped by an astroturfing campaign financed by the VRWC. This from a party that just elected the ultimate astroturf candidate in BHO.
In Vino Veritas
5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x nt
itrytobenice (Diary) Friday, April 17th at 9:37AM EST (link)Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
Perhaps the next phase it to take over the media.
spedteacher Thursday, April 16th at 9:31AM EST (link)nt
I prefer non-violence
red4ever (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 9:44AM EST (link)There are a few reasons:
1. The Constitution allows us to peacefully assemble in order to petition our government for redress. If these protests are about upholding our Constitution, we should adhere to it.
2. In the American Revolution, there was no other means to get a change of government policy. We have representation now. We can change policy through elections by running fiscally conservative candidates (and yes, we might have to decide which is more important fiscal conservativism or social conservatism) at every single level. It is not just the federal government that is out of control, it is state, county and city governments. Every election MUST have a fiscal conservative running. Even if the candidate loses, the message is out there.
3. We also have access to the courts. This was not an option in the Revolutionary days. You think the courts are stacked against us now, well, think about all being Crown appointees and only the rich could afford to go argue. Not that there were not certain victories. Now, we have democratic courts and 200 years of precedent to draw on. Believe me, the more I get involved in this movement, the more I am drawn to open a conservative law practice to protect the ideals of our Founding Fathers.
As long as we have non-violent options available, we must use them. Now, of course, if the government continues to label us extremists, we must defend ourselves. But we do not want another Ruby Ridge or Waco either.
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
And so...
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 9:51AM EST (link)And so you see the dilemma that I was talking about? When does violence serve the cause and when does it not? An ages old and difficult question for sure.
———-
Be sure and Visit my Home blog Publius’ Forum. It’s what’s happening NOW!
Neither the folks at Ruby Ridge or Waco
papalee Thursday, April 16th at 12:06PM EST (link)asked the government in to commit violence against them Both were the result of bureaucrats attempting to get Congress to give them more money. We, as Conservatives, must admit to ourselves that our government is much more likely and willing to do violence to us that we to do violence to change their ways.
Still, I do agree with you that as long as a peaceful way is open to us, we must choose same. But at the same time we must be aware that if our desire is to reduce government spending and the size of government itself to the limits of the Constitution, we actively threaten those who profit greatly from both of these things and that threat to their way of life may cause them to seek to do violence to us.
5 5 5 5 5 papalee great assessment
mom2oneson (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 2:27PM EST (link)“we actively threaten those who profit greatly from both of these things and that threat to their way of life may cause them to seek to do violence to us.”
That is such a good assessment and explaination.
So what is the answer, how do we protect ourselves from those with ill intentions?
red4ever I dont like your number 2, it shows a lack of thought I think
Alberta (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:52PM EST (link)And coming from me thats rich
This is an important point that I think people dont think about. Social conservatism is pretty much fiscal conservatism. Also, the ‘my brand of conservatism is the right way and MUST be used EVERY election’ isnt right, because MY brand of conservatism is the right way and MUST be used EVERY election…
But I am interested now. What money-sucking social conservative policies would you drop in the name of fiscal conservatism? I think, personally, its a sham, but Ill let you respond.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Abraham Lincoln
By Social Conservatism
red4ever (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 1:33PM EST (link)I am thinking mainly that there might be a person who is not interested in working to overturn Roe v. Wade but does support getting rid of earmarks, lowering taxes for everybody, etc. Do we NOT support that person because of their position on Roe v. Wade? When failure to support that person will guarantee a victory for the liberal side?
Obviously, not funding every feel-good social program that comes along is Social Conservatism AND Fiscal Conservatism. But sometimes they diverge a bit. We have to decide which is more important. Electing people who will hold the line on MOST of the things we believe in, or allowing the election of people who don’t agree with ANYTHING we believe in. Because that is what happens when we draw a line in the sand on a single issue.
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
How can you be a conservative and not want Roe V. Wade overturned?
AKSteveB (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 2:04PM EST (link)Even if one is pro choice (I am), the decision was horrible law, and a judicial overreach that has poisoned the political atmosphere for 35 years now. If you want to make the argument that abortion shouldn’t be a litmus test, fine, you’ll find both agreement and disagreement here, if you don’t see federalism and the rule of law as core issues, you are neither a social nor fiscal conservative.
Hell is other people – Sartre
Yeah there's no coherent philosophy AT ALL that favors Roe
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 2:07PM EST (link)It was a horrible decision. completely out of bounds of any sense or of the law.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
So was Bowie v. Kuhn
red4ever (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 5:19PM EST (link)We still have anti-trust in baseball. SCOTUS trivia: Same justice wrote Bowie and Roe.
I was using Roe v. Wade in the hopes that support for SCOTUS precedent might be less incendiary here that abortion. I was wrong.
Let me rephrase: I am thinking mainly that there might be a person who is supports an adult women’s right to choose prior to the last trimester, but does support getting rid of earmarks, lowering taxes for everybody, etc. Do we NOT support that person because of their position on abortion? When failure to support that person will guarantee a victory for the liberal side?
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.
Dante
Depends on the context and our goals (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 8:09PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Here is where you are dead wrong, WTH
Jack_Savage (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 9:50AM EST (link)“After all, as I said, anger is the motivating factor of any protest.”
That is absolutely NOT true, and this is EXACTLY the way the left wants to portray us. I did not see one bit of anger yesterday, and I would venture to say that no one associated with any of the protests did either. There is a huge difference between anger and passion, and it is a tremendous mistake to confuse the two.
I am passionate, not angry.
Sorry, Jack
Steph C (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:27PM EST (link)There’s a very thin line between passion and anger. WTH is right about this. There is a lot of anger fueling this and that anger has been building for a couple of decades just after we had a too brief but shining moment of what this country could be.
I’m not afraid of the violence. That is not what frightens me but what will we become after the violence.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
I agree, Steph. Anger is what is fueling this movement,
janis (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:40PM EST (link)and fear is right next to anger. I’m angry that this last election was bought and paid for by people like George Soros, angry that the MSM is so horribly corrupt and dishonest that they refused to ask Obama the questions that they were duty-bound to ask him, angry that the gov. no longer represents the majority of the citizenry and hasn’t for some time, angry that the voters elected a man who is the antithesis of what a president should be, angry that so many “voters” are so damned ignorant on so many important counts, angry that my grandchildren aren’t even 5 years old and are already over $70,000 in debt thanks to the gov., angry that my rights to free speech and assembly and guns are being threatened and under assault daily now. And my fear is that our country is becoming not only a socialist country, but one racing towards third world irrevelancy.
Passion is valid, but it’s not nearly enough to describe what’s going on here, Jack.
OOps, "Irrelevancy" not "irrevelancy." n/t
janis (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:42PM EST (link).
When is violence justified??
JHancock (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 11:05AM EST (link)Our forefathers thought it was justified the minute the government started taking tax money and using it for things that didn’t benefit the people who were paying!!
Hmmmm… Chew on that Obama!
Chew and conscider that we will fight and die before we let you turn this country into a socialism/communism where our property is no longer our own and where we can no longer benefit from our own hard work!!
No, that's not what the founders said
Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 11:06AM EST (link)Read the Declaration.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Taxation w/o
JHancock (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 11:45AM EST (link)Representation was the impetus behind the original tea party. England’s colonial policy at the time was that the colonies existed to help the motherland, and thus were taxed disproportionately to the services they received. Many of the forefathers thought that this fundamentally broke Lockes Social Contract and were outraged.
“The present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.,,,,
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. (Like the IRS)
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. (Like gun control)
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: (like liberal judges using international precedent)
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: (can you say stimulus package??)
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. (If you make more than 100K just wait and see!)
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. (FOCA would require doctors to kill their unborn “brethren” at the command of liberal women)
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, (ACORN anyone?? Islamofacism?? Illegal immigration??)
555555555 for Decl. of Indep. references and analogies nt
ColdWarrior (Diary) Thursday, April 16th at 12:27PM EST (link)nt
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