The Boston Globe had an interesting piece on January 19 that pretty much proved that the left is never, ever interested in working with others, only in conquering and destroying others. They aren’t interested in the ages old American system of compromise but only in the Marxian concept of destruction, absorption and recreation.
The occasion of this example was a piece on the foolish outreach to the American left made by evangelical leader Rick Warren. In “Effort to surmount polarizing debates backfires on pastor, the Globe unwittingly revealed the depths of the politics of personal destruction in which the left engages when they find opposing views.
Rick Warren has oft times courted criticism with his natural base on the right side of the aisle by engaging the left. But, Warren has been keen to advance beyond the right/left debate to get to the Jesus debate. He would rather see a discussion of the words of Jesus occur than to continue to indulge in the religious tinged right/left political debate of the day. Unfortunately for Warren, the left won’t allow any such outreach.
The left is based solely on litmus test thinking. Any deviation, no matter how small, is proof of unworthiness. No compromise is pursued, no dialog is wanted. If you don’t wholly ascribe to the left agenda, you can get lost as far as the left is concerned.
You see, the left does not believe in principled opposition. In fact, they generally have replaced standard religious ideologies with a zealous observance of the religion of leftism. To the left, any opposition to their agenda is not just wrong, but evil. If you are against gay “marriage.” You are not wrong, you are evil. You cannot, in the left’s view, have a legitimate reason to be against gay marriage. If you stand against abortion, you are not merely wrong, but to a leftist you are akin to Hitler. If you tell a leftist you are pro-gun, anti-welfare, that you are for teaching abstinence, or are pro-faith based charities, you aren’t a person with whom they can debate and maybe even work with on the other things that might be agreed upon, you are an inhuman cretin that needs to be eliminated. You are, to them, an object of hate, not just disagreement.
The Boston Globe gave ample evidence of the left’s zealotry in the January 19 article. As the article detailed the stiff opposition that Warren was meeting with his outreach to leftists, it becomes clear that compromise is not a word with which the left is familiar.
But in the weeks since he was tapped by President-elect Barack Obama to deliver the invocation at tomorrow’s inaugural ceremony, Warren has become a lightning rod for criticism because of his opposition to same-sex marriage. This genial, Hawaiian-shirt wearing preacher, whose website describes him as America’s Pastor and whose utterances have appeared on Starbucks cups, finds himself for the first time being scrutinized and attacked.
The Globe misunderstands the irony it claims to see in the piece, though.
There is considerable irony in the controversy over Warren, who has spent a career trying to distance himself from the polarizing debates that have often pitted liberals against evangelicals.
To the Globe, the irony is that the guy that wanted to reach out to the left is being slapped by that same group, but the real “irony” is in believing that the left can be reached out to in a heartfelt way with honest intentions in the first place. The left has no desire at all for such honesty or integrity. They only want 100% conformity to their quasi-religious left principles.
This should be a lesson to the evangelical community. The left does not want to work with you. They want you to capitulate to them. Any outreach to them that does not include 100% capitulation to their ideals will be met with hatred and rejection.
Now, there is some interesting triangulation, here, being undertaken by Barack Obama. But it is a cynical move that evangelicals should also not be fooled by. Obama picked Warren not because Obama wants to reach out to the right in an honest, open dialog. He wants to reach out to the right as the first step to overtaking and defeating it. Obama sees Warren as his best avenue to that destruction and Warren is his unwitting accomplice in that goal.
Obama’s wooly claim of wanting to “reach across the aisle” is nothing short of an outright lie. He has no history of reaching out to anyone but the most extreme left and his voting record clearly proves that. Obama has never stood up against his party on anything much less doing so for an idea or policy that might lean center right. He doesn’t have the most liberal voting record n the Senate for nothing.
So, any outreach made by Obama to the evangelical community should be viewed as mere window dressing made to fool as many people as possible that he is interested in a centrist presidency. There can be no doubt that Barack Obama is anti-Second Amendment, pro-abortion, anti-faith based charities, and solidly for Planned Parenthood. Despite his late campaign claims that might seem to soften his hard left stance, there is not a thing in his voting record that would lend credence to his campaign rhetoric.
As the Founders of this country said, let us let history be our guide. In OBama’s case, history tells us he is a radical leftist. So, any Christian that imagines that Barack Obama is interested in their opinions is only fooling themselves.
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Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
you get what you deserve....
Jack (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 8:08AM EST (link)Years ago I sat in a seminar given in regards to labor relations which the speaker was a former federal labor negotiator. Before he began his remarks he asked how many in the audience worked for a company that was unionized., About 40% raised their hands. He nodded at them and said you have unions because you deserved them.
We have Barack Obama because we deserved him. After he has finished with his permanent political campaign, and the liberal rule and the economy is broken for as far as the eye and mind can see and reach finally and only then will America remember what he had and what we surrendered for “hope and change”.
Jack
“If at age 20 you are conservative you have no heart. It at age 30 you are liberal you have no brains.” Sir Winston Churchill
Get A Grip.
Huntress Monday, January 19th at 8:22AM EST (link)“Obama picked Warren not because Obama wants to reach out to the right in an honest, open dialog. He wants to reach out to the right as the first step to overtaking and defeating it. Obama sees Warren as his best avenue to that destruction and Warren is his unwitting accomplice in that goal”
Paranoia runs deep into your mind it will creep.
Huston is filled with his own hatred and biases towards Obama which he chooses to project on to the entire “left”.
And then create a fantasy scenario about Obama’s intentions.
Huston’s piece is a reflection of what he feels towards the left and could aptly be titled:
“I don’t want compromise, my hate is too strong”
As a Republican, I encourage Huston to get a grip.
Blam
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 8:29AM EST (link)When you’re ready to apologize, you can petition for reinstatement.
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How did I miss this one the first go-round?
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 8:40AM EST (link)Well, nobody’s perfect.
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Respectfully, Moe...what was this
jdub19 Monday, January 19th at 9:10AM EST (link)poster blammed for?
Telling a front page contributor to get a grip? Are front page contributors outside the line of fire?
” Got to love the Lord for making things like that.”
Morally Compromised
The odds are extrordinarily high...
Bill S (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:59AM EST (link)that “Huntress” was a moby, which is an auto-ban.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Pardon my ignorance
DRP Monday, January 19th at 2:36PM EST (link)A “moby”?
Pardon my ignorance
DRP Monday, January 19th at 2:37PM EST (link)A “moby”?
One who poses
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 2:52PM EST (link)…as one of us in order to suck up as much time and thought as possible before they are banned, which is the ultimate goal.
Thanks
DRP Monday, January 19th at 3:23PM EST (link)And having had it explained to me, I now get the reference.
My respectful question as well
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:28AM EST (link)I can see how accusing the editor of paranoia might be going a little far, but I’ve seen many other comments that are much more personal and insulting without any reproof. It’s part of the tussle around here. And the editor’s post itself used some pretty tough language. I dislike the Far Left as much as anyone, but there are many liberals outside of the Far Left (a diminishing minority, perhaps, but still many) who don’t believe in the character assassination the editor describes.
Again, respectfully submitted.
My take on the blamming
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:34AM EST (link)“As a Republican” seems to fall under the category of misrepresentation. At any rate, the post would have found a friendly reception at DKos, particularly the part about” filled with hate” (remember the Sarah Palin rally meme?). That code language for “racist” would be enough for me, and I really think even allowing the possibility of reinstatement is quite gracious.
Nice shot, IMO.
i picked up on those things, too, but why leap
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:40AM EST (link)to conclusions? it was ambiguous.
Accusations of mental illness don't fly with me, period (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:36AM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
i fear that redstate is becoming more of an
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:44AM EST (link)echo chamber than it was in 2005 when i first started lurking here.
there are plenty of redstaters who are extremely insulting to others, but they get away with it because they’re strong conservatives, even though their insults are impediments to furthering the discussion.
You just haven't been here long enough.
itrytobenice (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 1:37PM EST (link)After just so long, you can spot them like the sun in the sky. If we didn’t blam him for this, we would just have to listen to his tripe longer and longer until finally all the hateful rage that fills his life comes spilling out onto our website.
This *is* an echo chamber if what you mean by that is a Republican site for Republicans too come together to discuss political ideas.
If someone is deranged enough to want to come here and straighten us all out, they are too deranged for us to put up with. Think about it, do you go to Kos or HuffPo to straighten them out? No, we’re not lunatics about it. We have high hopes but our feet are on the ground. Unlike Ds who come here and try to convert us.
Especially when that conversion attempt begins with an accusation of our mental illness.
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
Yes, icbm, what she said. And she said it quite nicely, as usual. n/t
janis (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 1:45PM EST (link).
thanks, janis.
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 2:07PM EST (link)n/t
if everyone else here were like you,
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 2:07PM EST (link)there would be little problem perhaps
thanks for the thoughtful and long response – but i politely disagree. i think many republicans feel quite uncomfortable here and in fact end up being banned or chased away after they start posting. (i am not claiming that huntress was a republican – i have no idea about that one.)
and i realize i can’t prove it, but i’ve been reading redstate for three years now, often several times daily. the blamming seems more frequent and quicker than ever before.
but again, thanks for the response.
icbm: I think the 'discomfort', as you'd have it ...
Martin Knight (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 6:00PM EST (link)… stems from the fact that the popular culture, which is wholly in the hands of the Left, has it that there is something morally suspect about being a Republican, that it’s something you should keep to yourself in mixed company.
It’s ubiquitous, it’s pervasive and it’s constantly being re-enforced in the news, in entertainment and in academia; Republicans only ever come in two varieties, stupid or evil; to be a Republican is to be a warmonger, a racist, a sexist, a deliberate despoiler of the environment, a religious fanatic itching for another Crusade.
Pick up any work of fiction (print or screen) with an American political backdrop, and even if the parties are not mentioned, the politician voting or advocating for a tax cut, or is pro-life is either corrupt or in some other way morally or ethically compromised.
Here’s where I’m going with this; I think a lot of the people – including many Republicans i.e. see “moderates” – who find RedState “uncomfortable” are not discomforted by the strictness of the site so much as the total lack of shame or apology for being Conservative and Republican amongst the regulars here.
After years and years of absorbing the message that Republicans are unrepentantly backward moral reprobates, it’s bound to be jarring for some to find themselves interacting with the people the urbane and polished people in the silk ties and thousand dollar suits they see on TV tell them everyday are leading the nation to ruin.
That’s what I think, anyway.
thanks, martin
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 6:18PM EST (link)i respect your views around here, and you’ve clearly thought about it a lot. you could be right. i’ll have to think about it more.
thanks.
Nice
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:09AM EST (link)Instead of dealing with the actual topic, Bluntress just reverses it and claims to have engaged in debate.
But with such mindless, childish attempts at discussion, Bluntress seems blissfully unaware that her mode of attack is a non sequitur. I can but return it thus to show the weakness therein:
Bluntress’ hate for Huston is so obvious that she creates a fantasy scenario about Huston that…. blah, blah, blah. Etc., etc.
Bluntress may congratulate herself on her prowess, but a thinking person laughs at the conceit. Bluntress must love herself, though, because such love is surely in short supply from anyone else in the room. In good leftist fashion, Bluntress has a surfeit of “self esteem” and a corresponding lack of capabilities that does her little good in the real world.
Poor, poor, Bluntress.
———-
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i really like many of your diaries, warner todd,
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 9:48AM EST (link)but you don’t actually have a basis for knowing what obama’s intentions are in this case.
the intentions of the Far Left are very clear, and you’re 100% correct about them.
I count Obama as one of the Far Left in his past political positions, but it’s not obvious that in this situation he’s on board with demonizing those who disagree with him.
Just exactly how has Obama and the left shown their intentions to be different?
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:03AM EST (link)You ascribe a great many good intentions to a group of people who have not for one second done anything to deserve it.
not at all - only there's no evidence right now
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:13AM EST (link)that obama thnks that the character assassination of rick warren is valid.
his past shows that he is an extreme leftist in his positions, but even if rick warren is window dressing, i don’t see that obama is consenting to character assassination. on the contrary, he has explicitly said he will include a diversity of views at the inauguration, and he has done so (too great a diversity of views, in fact, in my opinion).
i agree with the editor that obama has never reached across the aisle in the past on anything important. completely true. and so it is fine to regard his choice of rick warren with skepticism. but it is not justifiable to assert outright that obama is telling “a lie.” obama may want to defeat the right as much as we want to defeat the left (and i suspect he does), but there is not evidence right now that he wants to destroy the right by any means necessary, as some of rick warren’s critics want to do.
when we are justified and it is prudent, let us attack obama with all we have. when it is not justified, let’s not go too far.
and that’s all i will say further on the subject. i hate even looking as if i’m defending obama. don’t make me do it again.
Then let me ask you this
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:37AM EST (link)Please point out where Obama has defended Warren, or even defended his CHOICE of Warren. And then I will leave you alone in your uncomfortable position of being an Obama apologist : )
Here’e the deal about Obama. He rose to power through the Chicago machine, yet we are to believe he didn’t engage in machine politics. He was an ally – not an aquaintance, but an ally – of Bill Ayers, and we are to believe he doesn’t share any of Ayers’ views. He attended Wright’s church for 20 years, wrote a book based on a sermon by Wright, and Wright performed his marriage ceremony, yet we are to believe he knew nothing of Wright’s theology or radical views or hatred of America. Bill and Hillary were suddenly racists during the primary, yet Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that meme.
Obama’s pick of Warren was politically perfect, from a politically perfect campaign. Warren’s ego is such that he truly believes he will be the spiritual advisor to this president, and he took the bait without hesitating. His stance on abortion is non-negotiable, but everything else seems to be in a misguided attempt to reach out to those who hate him, and have shown beyond all doubt that they hate him.
Obama seems to distance himself from those on the rabid left, when this pick is nothing more than checking a box marked “Reach out to Christians”, just one of a long series of checked boxes that can be dredged up in the perpetual campaingn that will be Obama’s presidency. It is a triangulation that Bill Clinton would be proud of, and just like Obama’s race, it is a weapon that will be used when needed.
To be perfectly frank, I don’t believe that Obama cared a whit about Rev. Wright. He went to that church for Chicago street cred, and dumped Wright when the going got a little rough. He used Wright, just as he is using Warren, to serve his political ambitions. I doubt Barack Obama has ever uttered a prayer in his life, could not explain his faith if his life depended on it and couldn’t find the book of Genesis in the Bible with a neon sign pointing toward it.
Barack Obama is the savior, the messiah, and the religion. Everyone and everything serves that purpose, including Warren, and there is absolutely nothing in his history or actions to suggest otherwise.
OK, here it is:
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:56AM EST (link)http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/12/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4675325.shtml
There is a video at the bottom, too, if you want to watch it.
Article Quotation:
Mr. Obama said the inauguration would include people with a wide variety of viewpoints represented and “that’s how it should be.”
He also pointed out that he was invited by Warren a few years ago to speak at his church, despite his disagreement with Warren on those issues. “That dialogue is part of what my campaign has been about,” he added.
icbm, I fear you are in for a major let down
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:02AM EST (link)I admire your determinaton to take the high road, but I tend to agree with WTH. Obama has done NOTHING more than talk a good game.
About anything.
Including reaching across the aisle. He can’t be trusted. The public financing promise and subsequent reversal did it for me.
I’ll bet you can’t come up with one meaningful example of the Messiah compromising with the right on any issue.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
Rick
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:05AM EST (link)Remember, everyone is beginning to realize that Obama’s promises have an extremely short shelf life! He makes them and but weeks later finds some excuse to change his mind.
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i don't take the high road, but the solid road
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:08AM EST (link)i just want attacks on obama to be as solid as possible. i strongly disliked attacks on bush that presumed to know his personal intent, and likewise i strongly dislike attacks that do the same here.
as regards obama’s past, i agree. see my response to huston below.
Um
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:12AM EST (link)I think you rather took the easy road, not the solid one. The easy road is to just believe him and go off on your merry way. The SOLID road tis to use his history to inform your disbelief of his starry-eyed rhetoric.
———-
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no, the solid road is to wait for present evidence
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:16AM EST (link)who’s just believing him? i’m not. i’m just waiting for evidence. to disprove that he is sincere in wanting various views included in his inauguration.
making accusations in advance, apart from being unjust, will make us look bad in the end. if you’re so sure that obama is lying, then just wait until it becomes clear. it’s just a matter of a little time. in the meantime, be as skeptical as you want without presuming to know his personal intent.
Thank you
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:03AM EST (link)And I release you from your bondage.
Having said that, the video and quote hardly offers a defense of Warren or his positions. It is merely a defense Obama’s “policy” of listening to people. He listens, and nods, and pats on the back, then goes back to the hard left default position. Every. Single. Time.
I think that was the point of the original post, and I still agree wholeheartedly with it.
Freedom! FREEEEEDDDDOOOMMMMM!!!!
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:11AM EST (link)Thank you for releasing me.
Clarification: I never said that Obama defended Rick Warren’s positions, only that he defended having a diversity of views, which included men like Rick Warren. This is evidence – not necessarily conclusive but evidence nonetheless – that Obama does not agree with the Extreme Left’s character assassination of Warren. That’s what we were talking about – whether Obama supported the character assassination. Not defending Rick Warren’s positions does not mean that he supports the character assassination.
Did he denounce said character assassination?
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:59AM EST (link)No.
And that is evidence as well.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
You Equate Good Intentions...
rcov092 (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 1:49PM EST (link)with the moral commitment to right injustice. Obama has been the one claiming he is going to stand and “right” injustice and “unfairness” Apparently this only extends to those that agree with him or have something that he believes that will further his own goals to the exclusion of others.
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ICBM and Jack
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:54AM EST (link)You have to remember, I am from Chicago. I have watched Obama for his whole career and it is always the same pattern. He goes on TV or radio, talks in his sonorous yet soothing voice about how we have to “work together” and how all this yelling back and forth is not helping. He claims he will “reach across the aisle” to get things done. Yet, when push comes to vote he NEVER approaches the centrist position. He ALWAYS votes as far left as it is possible to vote on any particular issue.
His claims at being “reasonable” are simply lies when his voting history is consulted. Always has been. At this point, as I said in my piece, we HAVE to believe that every hand he seems to be lending the other side is a sham, a lie, a head fake. Because history has shown that EVERY SINGLE time he has used this faux rhetoric, he has jerked that hand right back and voted the extremist, left line.
This is no “paranoia” on my part as the other poster said. This is HISTORICAL FACT.
McCain found that out before. Too bad he’s so stupid as to have forgotten it.
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Here's my position, Huston
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:04AM EST (link)I appreciate your explanation. I agree with your summary of Obama’s past. It’s all there in Freddoso’s book, “The Case Against Barack Obama,” which I have read, as well as in numerous (though not numerous enough) articles about Obama’s history, including one by Obama supporter Jeffrey Goldberg.
Here’s our disagreement:
Obama’s consistently hard leftist past should make us skeptical of promises and actions that go contrary to it, but should not make us decide in advance that they are lies. Wait until there’s evidence – and the past is not evidence enough for present promises. The past is evidence enough for skepticism, but not accusations. Past may be prologue – or it may not be. Obama has never been in a position of actually having to govern and make decisions. He has been able to get away with gratifying leftist interests. He may change. I am very skeptical that he will, but he may. And if he does, our accusations will have been unjust.
I don’t think you’re paranoid. I just think you went a little too far.
I will leave it at this
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:06AM EST (link)“Why did you bite me?”
“You knew I was a snake when you picked me up…”
ICBM
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:10AM EST (link)Well, I can see your point of view. I just don’t agree with it. As far as I am concerned, with his history, we should believe no word that spews forth from his mouth. If we find the final action and it seems to appeal to us, then we can express surprise and gratification. But it should NOT make us lower our guard and imagine we can “work with him.”
Still, I have little fear based on his career that he will not disappoint me in proving he is a thorough liar. He always was before.
However, if he should suddenly turn to a real centrist and cast off his unAmerican past and turn against his supporters, then color me happily surprised. But, I can think of only one president that ever did that. His name was Chester A. Arthur. His party was so peeved they refused to allow him a second term, too!
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I agree
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:05AM EST (link)And the point about Obama sticking a knife into McCain’s kidney during their one little bipartisan foray was forgotten by everyone, especially McCain.
ICBM, a few points
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:17AM EST (link)1. What has Obama done to deserve being defended? Do you want him to get a free pass to pass the hateful, far-left parts of his agenda that haven’t gone under the bus.
2. The man pals around with terrorists. Unrepentant terrorists. He has earned no benefit of the doubt. Come on.
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he doesn't deserve to be defended
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:24AM EST (link)nor does he deserve unfounded accusations.
there is a tremendous amount to attack him on without ever talking about guessing about his personal intent.
i’ll say it again – i dislike attacks on bush that presume to know his personal intent without any evidence, and i dislike attacks on any other president that do the same. or do you think it was fair to say that bush and cheney served oil interests because they previously had connections to the oil business?
wait until there is present evidence.
unfounded?
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:29AM EST (link)Oh, wake up. Good grief. BHO’s predilections are well-documented, and UNWAVERING. He is a hard leftist with a soft selling schtick. The benefit of the doubt goes to us, not him.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I'll try one more time. Hypothetical scenario:
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:36AM EST (link)Bill’s employee has lied to him over 100 times in the last year. Today, Bill asks his employee if she took out the trash last night. She replies that she did. Is Bill justified in accusing her of lying in this particular instance because she has lied in 100 other instances?
I say no, although he is justified in being very skeptical and waiting for more evidence before trusting her. And if current evidence apart from her past history turns out that she lied, he is justified in accusing her.
But apparently everyone else says yes to this question.
He's an idiot if he believes her at that point
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:51AM EST (link)You remind me of our go along, get along style Republican that gets walked all over in the Senate.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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read what i wrote. i said he should be skeptical.
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:54AM EST (link)stop claiming that the choice i am offering is between blind belief and accusation.
But why does an associate of terrorists get that doubt? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 12:05PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
b/c a terrorist associate can be falsely accused, too
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 12:13PM EST (link)on the other hand, if you think that a man’s past bad association (or even horrible crime) makes him automatically guilty of any accusation you want to throw at him, then proceed.
Hey, I released you...
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 12:56PM EST (link)But you have wandered back into the cell and are locking the door…
I think, at the very least, the burden of proof is on Obama.
by that standard, we should lock up convicted
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 1:29PM EST (link)felons whenever they are accused of a new felony, regardless of the evidence. all we’d have to do is point to their past convictions.
that is, unless they somehow managed to prove the accusation wasn’t false.
Look, when I hear people making accusations against Bush that presume to know his intent, I object. I also object when – especially when – I see fellow conservatives doing the same thing to Obama.
We have and will have ample material to make accusations without making stuff up.
Nice try, but...
Jack_Savage (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 2:50PM EST (link)This is civil case, not a criminal one, and as such only requires a preponderance of evidence.
Obama loses.
heh. but since there is no evidence at all
icbm (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 2:53PM EST (link)directly relating to the specific instance at hand, you would not survive a motion for summary judgment.
I pretty much agree with you on this....
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:27AM EST (link)But I would probably take it a bit further and point out that this whole will he won’t he, what will he be, discussion is just stupid.
Obama is what he is, and furthermore he is what we allow him to become. The absolute best scenario for the next 4-8 years is the Republicans managing to somehow drag Obama into success.
But the reason this discussion is stupid is becuase allof this will be apparent right after he is sworn in, it won’t be about the first 100 days, no, we will know the direction Obama wants to go in the first 7-10 days. Then we either fight, or sell out.
I say we fight.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
A striking similarity
Vegas_Rick (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 10:31AM EST (link)“The left does not want to work with you. They want you to capitulate to them. Any outreach to them that does not include 100% capitulation to their ideals will be met with hatred and rejection.”
Sounds a great deal like radical Islam.
“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
And members of both groups ...
David123 (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:05AM EST (link)tried to blow up Fort Dix.
David123
Saul Alinsky taught the left well
Praying (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:04AM EST (link)So many of the far-left nutcases (Obama, Hillary Clinton, others) were dedicated students of Saul Alinsky and his “rules for radical revolution”. Remember, this guy dedicated his book to Lucifer, the original radical revolutionary. So, there you go. That ‘spains a lot.
No!!!11!1!!1!1! The Bilderbergers are coming
AH we seem to forget
Maggie_in_Indiana (Diary) Monday, January 19th at 11:42AM EST (link)that every eye is on Obama right now. He must play nice and appeal to everyone that doesn’t hate him. I don’t hate him as a man but some just plain hate his guts.
He’ll continue to change his views and promises throughout his term and that could work to our advantage,if the conservatives would be bold enough to use it. He’s on his honeymoon and from there he’ll go into the campaign mode worse than before,and has the power and influence in Congress to do it.
I’m just sayin….Warren is no fool.
Maggie in Indiana
As to prejudging poor Barack,
johnt Monday, January 19th at 3:13PM EST (link)what is there to prejudge that what we already know won’t tell us.
I mean really, those trillion dollar deficits out into the future with the accompanying increase mega times in Federal power. For this you need tea leaves? With this, and a few dozen more things, you are only prejudging him, unfairly ?
Please, a little less bull, a little less posturing.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville