On his November 10 Huffington Post, Nicholas Graham and nearly every commenter thereafter, purposefully distorted what Governor Palin said about prayer and the 2012 presidential race. The universal misconstruction of Palin’s comments was that she was “praying to become president” in 2012 and that somehow God was speaking directly to her. But reality is she did not say that at all.
Graham offhandedly claimed that Palin said that she was waiting “for a sign from God” as to whether she would run in 2012. Further distorting her comments, he claimed she was “confident God would show the way to the White House.” But, once again, she said neither of these things. In fact, what she actually said is rhetoric that is pretty much in accord with what even elected presidents have said at one time or another.
Unfortunately, we have arrived at a time when the default position for Democrats as a party is to despise religion even if individually they consider themselves religious. They consider any expression of religious sentiment whatsoever to be an example of “extremism,” and “bigotry” against others. Well, at least the second any Republican expresses a religious sentiment, that is. When anyone from their side does it, they wink, nod and assume that their politician is just lying and merely trying to get elected and doesn’t really mean it — which is still an expression of a hatred for religion when all is said and done.
This is an incredible logical disconnect that reveals their abject, illogical hatred of religion. None of them, of course, imagine that their religious belief is somehow “extreme” or “bigoted,” yet they assume right off that any expression of religion by a Republican isn’t just a sincere religious tenet and a statement about the candidate themselves, but is automatically an expression of intolerance and hatred for others.
But, what was most interesting is not Graham and his commenter’s misconception of what Palin said. I am used to them distorting what people say because they really never actually hear the sound bites or read the actual words of their political enemies. What is really interesting is their disgust that Palin would invoke religion at all. It seems to incense them that a Republican politician would pray for anything at all.
Sadly, their hatred of religion overpowers even the tiniest bit of logic they might possess. To show what I mean, I use the report on Huffington Post about Palin’s comment on Fox News as a prime example. Here is what Graham’s Huffington Post excerpted from Palin’s comments:
Faith is a very big part of my life. And putting my life in my creator’s hands – this is what I always do. I’m like, OK, God, if there is an open door for me somewhere, this is what I always pray, I’m like, don’t let me miss the open door. Show me where the open door is. Even if it’s cracked up a little bit, maybe I’ll plow right on through that and maybe prematurely plow through it, but don’t let me miss an open door. And if there is an open door in (20)12 or four years later, and if it is something that is going to be good for my family, for my state, for my nation, an opportunity for me, then I’ll plow through that door.
Now, nowhere in that excerpt did Palin say God was telling her to run, that she was praying that God tell her to run, or that she even wanted God to tell her to run. What she said was that if she felt God was showing her that path, she saw no reason not to take it. In fact, she clearly said with her “maybe prematurely plow through” the door comment that she may be mistaken and flawed in her view of what God may be showing her. These are all eminently sensible things to say and quite in keeping with a modest religious belief. In no way did she hint that she has some direct pipeline to God or that he speaks to her like from the burning bush. Nor did she express any messianic conceptions.
In fact, what Palin said mirrors rhetoric from every single president we’ve ever had. They’ve all invoked God and prayer and they’ve all applied it to their leadership.
Yet both the Huffington Post blogger and its hundreds of hatemongering commenters purposefully misconstrued what Palin said. Nearly to a comment, these haters assumed that Palin was praying to become president and that God was speaking directly to her as if she were a modern Jeanne d’Arc sent on a mission from on high.
Their hatred for any expression of religion, especially from a Republican, so blinds them and incenses them that no logic can penetrate their black views.
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Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Not just religion
Steph C (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 11:00AM EST (link)Anything that keeps us from worshipping at the alter of liberalism. They seek to replace belief in anything but government from which all “good” things come.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Actually, it's sheer hatred of Palin
civil truth (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 11:23AM EST (link)No matter what she says, these commentators are determined to take a dissecting microscope and twist her words into what they wish she had said so that they then can attack it.
It’s simply utter hatred of the person and intent to murder in the Sermon on the Mount sense.
This has gone far beyond political disagreement; this is personal malice.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Well, duh!
hunter (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 11:35AM EST (link)n/t
hunter
Bailout of Intellectual Bankruptcy?
Palinpal Saturday, November 15th at 12:01PM EST (link)It seems whenever someone has run out of intelligent things to say – however quickly that may come – he or she resorts to the “oh yeah?” argument. “Oh yeah? Well you’re dumb and crazy.”
And that is apparently where Huff Post contributors find themselves – not least of which, Frank Schaeffer, who this week enlightened me about how southern, backwoods, and uneducated I am.
Thank you, liberal illuminati, for showing the rest of us how we belong with the Clampetts.
Or is it you, who need a federal bailout from your intellectual bankruptcy?
An Ode To Obama Supporters
izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 12:24PM EST (link)The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Barack Obama, evangelical
CK_MacLeod Saturday, November 15th at 12:39PM EST (link)I don’t visit the Huffington Post very often (once a year maybe), but, over the course of frequent exchanges with self-superior left secularists at other venues, I’ve never found a single one of them willing to admit whether they believed that Barack Obama was a lying hypocrite or that he was a fool whenever he testified about his coming to Jesus as an adult. Our President-elect doesn’t even have the “excuse” of being able to claim that he was merely brought up in a certain religious-cultural tradition. Apparently, if you’re on the left, that old time religion is good enough for “brilliant” editors of the Harvard Law Review, but not good enough for thee and me.
Faith? There's all kinds.
johnt Saturday, November 15th at 12:52PM EST (link)The boobs of the left have found their church in government. You need only look at the faces, the zealotry, the gibberish that constitutes their own kind of prayer, to see plainly the religious fanaticism they claim to see in others.
If it wasn’t so ironic and dangerous you could be amused by the reactions of these simpletons towards Christianity.
And of course it’s Christianity that is the focus of their uncontrolled bile, perish the thought a smattering of criticism might be directed at islam and never at their conceptions of the god called government, which as we know will bring heaven on earth.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
Paradox
hbeeinc Saturday, November 15th at 1:25PM EST (link)When did the default become to allow Christianity to run rampant? Christians complain that non-Christian hate Christianity – that’s not true. I hate Christianity getting forced down my throat, not Christians. That’s a big difference. Instead, Christians turn this into a “did you say something about my mother” argument insisting that dissent equals hatred. It doesn’t.
There is very little reciprocal respect for non-Christians. In fact, as witnessed by the post, the secular among us are not allowed to give voice to our beliefs. If we questions Christians we become anti-Christians. To add insult to injury, when secularists criticize Christians, we’re accused of want to “destroy” religion (usually in that broad term) a la COMMUNISM. We become demonized and gleefully so.
Religion, I thought, was supposed to be a personal thing. Secularists feel besieged. Christians feel besieged. What’s the solution? More religion?
Roger Williams didn’t want to keep religion out of government – he wanted to keep GOVERNMENT out of RELIGION. He wanted his religion PROTECTED from gov’t interference like…say…503c laws.
This is America. You have your beliefs but so do I. This needs to stop being a situation about who “wins”.
With all due respect
JakePrime (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 1:41PM EST (link)You’re missing the point. I understand you don’t want people legislating Christian morality or teaching Creationism or trying to convert you under the threat of going to hell. Fair enough, I agree with you. That’s not the issue here. This is a case of Governor Palin’s simple expression of faith, a very common and resonable one, being blown up out of proportion. It demonstrates an extreme distaste for even the most basic of religious expressions and a lack of religious understanding.
It's more than that...
mikefisk (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 1:45PM EST (link)…I’ve been hearing people on the left start sharpening their knives for Bobby Jindal mainly along religious grounds. If you listen to the Kos crowd long enough, you’d think that he’s more of a zealot than Pat Robertson…
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
The fall of Rome...and the USA.
stang (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 2:02PM EST (link)Anything sound familiar here?
“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”
John Locke
What is the standard?
Whitfox (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 2:25PM EST (link)If Gov. Palin can be criticized for expressing her Christian beliefs, isn’t it then equally right to criticize people for expressing their non-Christian beliefs?
There is a real dispute between religions. And you’re quite right that the government should stay out of it as much as possible. But religion affects people’s words and actions. To prohibit a viewpoint from such public expression is to oppose that viewpoint.
The culture wars are largely a reaction from the right against government restrictions. If your goal is peaceful coexistence, save your fire for actual attempts to impose religion, such as school prayer. When the Left so vigorously attacks Palin for speeches like this, it’s clear peace is not a priority for them.
Romes fall had little to do with Christians
Alberta (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 2:43PM EST (link)Read Gibbons, he makes a pretty convincing case that the fall of Rome starts with Caesar. That is to say Romes long and slow decline and fall is (are?) to blame on military dictatorship and the bargains an Emperor must make with the troops and the other people of influence to maintain position. This is of course a very rough summary, the books like 1500 pages.
Also, the Church back in the day was an unreformed profit machine selling fake relics of dubious saints to peasants that couldnt read, let alone understand, the bible. Christians nowadays would find little in common with their ancients, which I think is a very good thing.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Abraham Lincoln
More anti-religious bias today at hufpo/NYT...
RborisT (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 2:48PM EST (link)Hufpo today features this NYT story on how the Mormons tipped the scale in favor of prop 8.
The intention of the article and (hufpo by posting it, since the vote is over) is clearly to fuel the ‘Blame the Mormons’ narrative, and to stoke the anti-religious bigotry of the gay-marriage left crowd.
This quote from the article gives a sense of the tone, refering to Mormons as…
(emphasis mine)
The thrust of the article is to give the inside details of the Mormons part in the effort to protect marriage in Calif.
The article is posted today, 11-15. Considering the violence so far agianst the Mormons by the anti 8 crowd, the article seems to be obviously and intentionally stoking the anti religious bigotry and violence.
This bears careful monitoring to see if it dies down with the emotion of the loss, or builds into even more open bashing of people of faith…
hebeenic,Thake a lozenge for the throat.
johnt Saturday, November 15th at 3:11PM EST (link)Perhaps you will then “hate Christianity being forced down your throat” a little less. Yeah, it’s been a tough eight years, all those theocrats running amuck, forcing all kinds of nasty theological things on people, creating a theocracy presumably with Bush as high priest.
Funny though, I missed it all, and there doesn’t seem to be too much of any traces left. Maybe it didn’t happen, maybe the theocracy and throat stuffing is the fantasy of a certain kind of mind, best left undescribed, or did I already touch upon that.
“Christianity rampant”, the fevers are running much to high, relax.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
The excorsism line is most often used
JoeG Saturday, November 15th at 3:12PM EST (link)I suggest that everyone actually read what he wrote to defuse some of the claims.
You can read it here
Surely you understand
I was previously Tlaloc, and I was banned last year. (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 3:14PM EST (link)that people twist what their political opponents say all the time. How many times has it been said here that Durbin called US troops Nazis (when in fact he said no such thing)? Should it happen? Probably not in a perfect world. Still stones, glass houses, and all that.
I work in the same space
Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 3:47PM EST (link)as many ultra liberals, as many others here probably do, but I can’t begin to tell you how many times I have been criticized or outright made fun of for either showing any glimpse of christian faith. Further, I’ve been portrayed as a religious nut job for supporting the GOP/McCain/Palin et al. I never talk about religious issues when discussing politics and really don’t ever comment on anything related to spirituality (I won’t hide my faith though), so it is not like I’m talking about these topics and these folks are critiquing me for it – they just openly call people religious nuts for being conservative. Moreover, they also think we want to lock women up in chastity belts, hang homosexuals in the town square and don white hoods to rebuild the South – all for supporting fiscal conservative beliefs and believing in the right to life. The most interesting thing about all of this is that this election cycle the GOP has probably moved much further from the social issues than we were in say 2000 (i.e., pre-9/11), with the exception of some of Sarah Palin’s stances. What’s most annoying, though, is that the folks in New York and California still don’t realize that the majority of voters throughout the nation typically allign themselves with conservative issues. So, the question for us is where did we lose them in the process. Of course, there’s plenty of speculation on that question, which I’m sure we’ll be talking about for the next 2 to 4 years. But, more importantly, what is it going to take for these conservatives to get rounded up again and show that the Republican Party is not made up of “religious wackos” (as many liberals put it)? And, when will lilberals come to the realization that there is nothing wrong with letting faith guide one’s decisions?
Christianity and the Democrats
john_barry Saturday, November 15th at 4:43PM EST (link)Infantcide played a major role in the decline of the Roman Empire. Roman society became soft and hedonistic. Of course attacks from Barbarian tribes such as the Goths, Ostrogoths and Visigoths was also a major contributory factor. Only conservatism can save society.
john barry
I sort of agree.
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 4:58PM EST (link)Christians – and specifically the “organized Christian Church” – had nothing to do with the fall of Rome.
Rome fell because the Romans became more and more hedonistic, more self centered and incredibly soft. They were easy pickings for the Goths, etal.
This country is, in fact, becoming more hedonistic by the day. Lord knows we’re incredibly self centered, and we are both mentally and physically soft. I could provide a litany of examples, but it’s not worth the effort.
The US, as a force in civilization, is likely on the decline. The election of TheOne™ demonstrates that.
Tamblin, you're right.
johnt Saturday, November 15th at 5:23PM EST (link)He also compared them to soviets and the gulag. Good catch.
Of course there are morons out there who would say,”ah but he was referring to an FBI report and said if one didn’t know better you would think, etc. But you and I know that the comparison was still his and still therefore applicable to both the soldiers and the administration.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
crazy
streiff (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 5:40PM EST (link)on so many levels. Take for instance your characterization of Roger Williams. While Rhode Island was not subject to the same governance as the Massachusetts Bay Colony it was not characterized by any freedom “from” religion and it didn’t have a secular character. Williams was, in fact, a Christian and a theologian.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Christians were blamed...not the cause, Alberta..
stang (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 5:43PM EST (link)Please reread the quote.
Sheesh. The point is they are being blamed again.
“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”
John Locke
...the threat of going to hell.
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 5:48PM EST (link)Hey, that’s exactly what religion should be doing, noting that the Bible says that if you do xyz you will end up in Hell. You are free to make your own decision about your eternity on an informed basis.
There should not be, nor have there ever been in the US, secular or government mandated punishments for choosing hell over heaven for eternity. And again, that’s exactly as it should be.
And, when will lilberals come to the realization that there is nothing wrong with letting faith guide one's decisions?
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 5:50PM EST (link)Ahhh, never. As long as it interferes with their naked grab for the power to control the daily lives of everyone.
From what I've heard recently...
mikefisk (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 10:06PM EST (link)…most of them don’t even seem to reference the exorcism, but are going to the same sort of jumping to conclusions about his faith that they did with Palin. It’s getting rather old.
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
Rome fell
Warner Todd Huston (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 10:49PM EST (link)Rome fell over bad fiscal policy as much as anything.
———-
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Who prayed after the Democrats'
mdetlh (Diary) Saturday, November 15th at 11:09PM EST (link)meeting? I’m no expert on who uttered the benedictions at a meeting of prominent Democrats, but the one instance within the last three years when I did witness a televised ending to a Democrat party convention ending with benediction, it was done by a Muslim. So, the libs aren’t necesarily anti religion, just anti-Christian a majority of the time. And the Koran is anti Christian in a majority of the texts, so once you get past the first few chapters, the militancy is obvious and anti Christian, anti Judaism and anti polytheistic. – Anti prop 8 supporters are clearly anti Christian as well among other things and support this comment’s thesis.
False on it's face
onlyafly Sunday, November 16th at 12:35PM EST (link)You claim that Democrats despise religion, but this claim is shown to be clearly false when you consider that the just-elected president is very openly religious. Not to mention that the entire legislative branch except for some congressmen you can count on one hand, considers themselves Christian. That includes Democrats and Republicans. So maybe this article should be retitled “Democrats (except for all those in elected positions, those who speak for the party, and a large majority of their supporters) Really Do Despise Religion, Don’t They”.
Yes, and Teddy Kennedy is Catholic.
SeriousLaff (Diary) Sunday, November 16th at 12:54PM EST (link)Well he claims to be to get votes. Just don’t be a Catholic and want him or most of the other Democrats to confirm your nominqation. Your religion disqualifies you.
Obama’s mother was an athiest, father a muslim and he obviously joined that bigotoed religious cult just to tell voters he went to church.
Evaluating Hipocrasy
onlyafly Sunday, November 16th at 1:35PM EST (link)If this is the way you assess the world, then you are not evaluating the facts and arriving at a conclusion. You have already decided that all Democrats hate religion, no matter their actual beliefs. Why do you believe that only Democrats lie about their faith?
I don’t understand what you mean here:
You said:
Does this mean that you can’t have Christian faith if your parents did not? That contrasts with my understanding of Christianity.
Bill Pryor
SeriousLaff (Diary) Monday, November 17th at 1:54AM EST (link)Bill Pryor was a Bush judicial nominee and the anti Catholic religious test theat that Dems were applying was obvious. He wasn’t the only one.
Obama doesn’t belong to a church as much as a political organization. Not much religion there at all but alot of politics.
It is difficult to get elected in this country in most places if you are an athiest. So people like Teddy Kennedy pay lip service to the religious nuts they despise. If you actually believe in a religion the MSM will go after you big time. Sarah Palin and John Ashcroft are two examples.
Making a claim to religion has no relation to possessing said beliefs
tcgeol (Diary) Monday, November 17th at 2:08AM EST (link)Jesus said that we will know Christians by their fruits. Most (read almost all) Democrats elected or appointed to national office show no fruit of Christianity whatsoever.
Most of them know 2 or 3 Bible verses that they can quote out of context in a pathetic attempt to defend obviously indefensible positions or to insult those who really do believe the Bible. A few of them even attend church every once in a while. So what – going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than belonging to the Lion’s Club make you a lion.
What they say and do indicating a lack of belief overrules vague claims of Christianity any day.
Just your typical bitter gun- and God-clinger
Even the Left admits we’re Right
Remember too that Catholics and Muslims are automatically at least nominal Catholics or Muslims unless they change their religion or denounce it.
mom2oneson (Diary) Monday, November 17th at 3:16AM EST (link)They are a member of that religion basically from birth. So we see many who are basically nominal Catholics, even if they are only baptized they consider themself Catholic even if they aren’t really practicing. The same scenario if they were protestant they probably would not identify themselves belonging to a specific church. Muslism are the same thing as Catholics, even if they aren’t practicing they are at least nominal Muslims unless they denounce it or something.
But they will use it to get elected
SeriousLaff (Diary) Monday, November 17th at 3:42AM EST (link)I see many “Catholic” politicians using their religion to get votes. If Teddy Kennedy were denied communion as oftened was threateded over the past few decades he would have been upset. I doubt he would have been upset because of any deep religious conviction but it would have cost him votes and a free sip of wine.