Was Jesus A Socialist?


There is a charge among some left-leaning professed Christians that conservative social policies neglect Christ’s commission to minister to the poor. Does the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 imply Christians should petition their government to enforce “redistributive justice?” Jack Clark thinks so. We excerpt Clark’s podcast, Blast the Right, and consider his “equivalent alternative solutions challenge;” it is fine to oppose government programs which provide for the poor, Clark says, but only if you can present an equivalent alternative solution which will help just as many people, in the just the same way, just as fast. Otherwise, by Clark’s reading of Matthew 25, you are going to hell. Is he right? Was Jesus a socialist? Consider the arguments in this week’s show.


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Answer: no

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 9:50AM EST (link)

Matthew 25:14-30 is fairly clear (not that the socialists don’t try to pervert the meaning).

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Even more that that.

Steph C (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 10:34AM EST (link)

Christ never once said that government should take from anyone to give to someone else… for any reason.

Throughout every parable and everything he taught his disciples, freewill was paramount to salvation.

Where is the freewill in forced redistribution in the name of social justice, which is a modern construct?

I bet mailloux could probably make a good case that the construct of social justice is a manifestation of one or more the seven deadly sins. I’m nowhere near as cognizant on the subject as he.

“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics

amen StephC and Happy Thanksgiving and your Walter Williams echo - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, November 26th at 2:46PM EST (link)

AMEN

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

That passage speaks about a servant multiplying

Hoosier Economist (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 11:13AM EST (link)

…his master’s money. I don’t really think we operate as a society in that fashion any longer…at least, not in this country.

The truth is, Jesus probably wasn’t a socialist OR a capitalist since he put absolutely NO stock in personal wealth as the path to salvation. Those are considerations for those walking the Earth AFTER Jesus went back to Heaven. That anyone on either side would pervert the scripture to justify ideology is pretty perverted in my estimation.

Translate "servant" to "investment banker" ...

acat (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 11:18AM EST (link)

… and it works pretty well for me.

Sure, my numbers guy isn’t my servant, but he does provide me with a service, in return for a cut of the profits. We both benefit.

That does not mean anything other than he (and I) are doing an honest day’s work. Sweat of our brow, earning our daily bread, and all that.

Mew

——
self-portrait

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein

 

Plain Reading of Scripture, Not Perversion

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 1:02AM EST (link)

With all due respect, it sounds like you discount the fact that Jesus himself was ideological. That the ideology was more heavenly than earthly does not negate its status as ideology. And I think we can rightly discern who that ideology translates to our flawed earthly existence. Otherwise, we’re left with just sitting around twidling our thumbs waiting for God to return, which is not at all what He advocated. On the contrary, Jesus instructed us to keep busy until his return.

In the podcast, Clark cites “systemic structures of sin” and prescribes “systemic solutions” to solve those problems. But man cannot solve sin. This side of heaven, it is far superior to disperse the impact of sin by dispersing power by vesting it in the individual rather than compacting the impact of sin by concentrating power in the hands of a few. As I stated in Rebels and Radicals, a manifesto of sorts you can find at fightinwords.us, Christians have the peculiar desire to submit themselves to a heavenly dictatorship, which necessarily requires rejecting a similar earthly arrangement. Freedom is the means by which we choose who and what to serve. Free will has evident value to the Creator in spite of the fact His will prevails regardless. He wants us to do what he wants without making us do it. The result is many who will not obey, and that dichotomy is what our current state of being is a (predetermined) contest to reconcile.

In simple terms, heaven may be rightly described as a socialist utopia. But the intelligence governing it is superior and infallible. Any attempt to model that arrangement here on Earth is nothing short of idolatry.

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

 
 
 

Jusus to the rich man to sell all he had and then take up his cross and follow him...he didn't say to get Ceasar to take it from his neighbor

AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 11:08AM EST (link)

I don’t see how anyone can read the scriptures and conclude Jesus would approve of socialism. We’re called to self sacrifice to meet the needs of our neighbors…not to use the coercive power of the state to enforce compassion!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Argument from false assumptions.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 11:14AM EST (link)

The interactions Christ had with government cannot, in any reasonable interpretation, be read to mean He endorsed large-scale government.

In fact, if one considers the history of the U.S., it’s not until this foolish idea first reared its’ head in the 50s and 60s that America stopped spreading democracy and freedom.

Consider that freedom is key to spreading Christianity – take a look at Saudi where just being a Christian is punishable. Then consider that there is no form of government other than democracy to ensure the freedoms of the minority.

This was and is a foolish notion, in the literal, biblical sense; to follow it is to be lost.

Mew

——
self-portrait

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein

 

No!

Vaughn Harold (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 11:45AM EST (link)

Socialism is man centered.

Conservatism is God centered!

As far as the poor, they will be with us always until all things are made right (it’s the nature of sin that creates such economic divides among the people), but we do have an obligation to ensure that any capable man, through an honest days work, can provide for himself and his family the basics (food, clothing, and shelter). It is not the responsibility of the state to provide it; it is his personal responsibility to work for it.

 

warning

streiff (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 1:59PM EST (link)

this is a toss-off diary that does little more than scroll a diary that required actual effort off the page. It also reeks of a Conservatives in the Mist experiment.

Please don’t do this again.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Conservatives in the Mist

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 2:35PM EST (link)

I think this is just a non-RedState guy trying to spam up some interest in his podcast; but since you mention it, this one is definitely a Conservatives in the Mist experiment.

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I think she's dead

streiff (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:08PM EST (link)

figuratively speaking

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

I just goofed the link (trailing '/') nt

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:29PM EST (link)

usque ad finem

So I've been told by colleagues

streiff (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:35PM EST (link)

she’s still alive but that is probably a technicality from what I’ve seen of her posts.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 
 
 

Warning from who?

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 1:10AM EST (link)

Actually, if you look at my profile, you will see a number of entries going back a couple months, including blog entries. The podcasts are relevant conversation pieces, different from a written blog only in form.

That said, if you are a moderator (not indicated in your comment), and deem links to my podcasts objectionable, it’s your house. Otherwise, I’m not sure what to make of your “warning.”

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

 

Duly noted

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 2:30AM EST (link)

Having confirmed your status as a moderator, I will respect your wishes. I would like to note, in one of my initial posts on this site, I sought advisement regarding whether this kind of post was considered appropriate. Since I received no reply, I continued with the practice.

As for the “Conservatives in the Mist” charge, my collected postings speak for themselves.

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

 
 

walterscotthudson, I find your picture and title offensive.

penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 2:47PM EST (link)

Your whole point? To come here promote and Jesus as a Socialist? To point out how we are not being Christian by refusing to accept the government’s Socialism in place of our own Christian charity, which God does call for?

Mailloux, one of our outstanding diarists at RS, is able to connect the spiritual with our secular world, has written about Christian charity before. Here is a link to at least one of his diaries addressing this, there may be others.

http://www.redstate.com/mailloux/2009/10/15/the-progressive-gospel%E2%80%99s-big-push-for-the-public-option/

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

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Penguin, he just wants to rile us up so we'll click on his link. nt

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 2:56PM EST (link)

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Thanks mschmitt, but I guess I don't know what this....

penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:21PM EST (link)

Conservatives in the Mist is all about. Is the guy promoting socialism by associating Jesus and Christianity with it? Or does he think the opposite? Sort of muddled for me.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

It's a reference to Dian Fossey...

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:26PM EST (link)

See, eg., here, with us cast as the wild gorillas (see Streiff’s link).

Streiff thought that by throwing the proper grunts together (in this case, Jesus and Socialist), this joker could instantly ingratiate himself to us by clicking on the link — presumably finding out that Jesus was not a Socialist (not that I actually listened) — so that he could then study us as a… errm, fellow gorilla.

I was just pointing out that this is (perhaps) a perfect description for Countess Oleska…

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Err, he thought that he thought; I confused even myself with that one. nt

mschmitt (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:27PM EST (link)

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hudson may not realize associating the name

penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, November 24th at 3:43PM EST (link)

Jesus with socialism, let alone using the Lord’s name out of context can bother some folk. Well, whatever his point was, it was lost of me. LOL

Thanks mschmitt, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 
 

Er... okay?

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 1:15AM EST (link)

Conversely, I am offended by your spouting off without having actually considered what I have to say. So, here we stand, two people offended by each other. Brilliant.

Listen and comment on the substance. Or move on. I care not which.

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

Yeah, with that attitude...

Neil Stevens (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 1:56AM EST (link)

…I’d discourage people from listening to your show.

If anyone I knew, knew it existed.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

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“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

You are free to do so

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 2:22AM EST (link)

What attitude? The expectation that commentary be a response to substance rather than a knee-jerk reaction to synopsis?

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

Walter, all I had to go on is your "synopsis."

penguin2 (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 11:38AM EST (link)

Let me clarify. It is obvious to me I do not understand the diary. I can admit that. The other point, well if people use pictures of Jesus gratuitously to make their point, it bothered me. The picture tells me you are saying Jesus was a Socialist. If you do not mean that, then say so. For many of us, we only have time to deal with what is presented here at RS. So I am not trying to spout off, just expressing the result of reading your diary.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills

Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List

Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

penguin2 raises a good point

Neil Stevens (Diary) Thursday, November 26th at 1:47PM EST (link)

Do a better job of expressing yourself in your posts, if your posts don’t accurately express your position.

Throwing a tantrum because you didn’t write what you think, only proves you the fool.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 
 
 
 
 

NO WAY

pjpony (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 12:36AM EST (link)

Jesus believed in helping those who were unable to help themselves and said to give
10%, not the farm! He believed in taking care of your neighbor, not
that we had to provide for everyone. He was not a vegetarian and
believed that animals were put here for man’s use. We were not
on the same level, but above and ruling over them. He hated churches
that used people for their money and threw money changers from the
Temple for selling things in the name of God. He believed in
supporting our ministers to the extent that they weren’t hungry,
but not living in luxury ie Pharasees.

He ate fish, drank wine and would never support abortion or gay
rights, but didn’t condemn or turn away those that sinned no
more and said we were not to judge, but leave that to His Father.
However, he did say “Sin no more.”

 

Thou Shalt Not Steal

jyalai (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 2:26AM EST (link)

God believes in private property. Case Closed!

Correct, Scripture Intreprets Scripture

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 2:37AM EST (link)

We do not consider single passages of scripture in a vacuum. Matthew 25 must be reconciled, not only with the commandment among the Ten to not steal, but James 2 which says, “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” That reconciliation, in my opinion, is providing people with the opportunity to provide for themselves.

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.

 
 

The Knockout Verse

Walter Scott Hudson (Diary) Wednesday, November 25th at 7:48AM EST (link)

A commenter over at Free Republic shared this scripture, “Every man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” – 2 Corinthians 9:7

Kind of obliterates Clark’s argument, doesn’t it? It also discredits the Catholic doctrine he relies upon.

www.fightinwords.us

Thoughtful, real, and fearless commentary on the news of the week. We cover politics, society, culture, and religion from a traditional conservative perspective, beyond the party lines and simplistic left-right paradigm.