Originally posted on Townhall.com, in November, 2007, co-authored by Vassar Bushmills and Bernard Chumm
Note: Brian Hibbert just posted a diary on the same theme which I recommend. It’s near and dear to our hearst as wel, as I will set out below.
(For your consideration, with some updates since, in Nov 2007, Barack Obama was still working on his 100- day resume to become president. Who knew?)
Bernie touched on this subject when I first “diaried” here on RedState, and it was received rather cooly, especially by the gate keepers who apparently don’t like trolls. (Yes, I know there are good reasons, still…hear me out. This is explanatory, not plaintiff in nature.)
I remember the Baptist preacher who told me how much he would love to see a total stranger step into one of the back pews in his church, just once. He said he had a separate sermon saved up, all ready for that fellow…if he would just show up. I’ve poked a lot of fun at that old pastor over the years, but he was ever the missionary, still had the fire, only to be handed his last twenty years a flock of choir members in about as settled, near-asleep congregation as one could imagine, not a one of them needing saving…at least in their own minds. Preaching to the self-contented can be about as thankless a task as one with “the fire” can endure. It can wither up a younger man and make him old, and it did with him. His handicap never got below 24.
So, as for your trolls who come in from time to time to sit on the back pew, Bernie and I think a little two-step quiz can quickly get most of them to remove themselves, without any intervention from any editor…but in the process, for say, what, one in ten, one in twenty? can perhaps begin marching off in a little different direction toward self-inquiry, all because of a brief encounter with someone at RedState. I see a lot of missionary zeal here, but guess what, you’re mostly talking amongst yourselves, the choir. I’ve seen you write and argue amongst yourselves, so I know you can convince the stripes off a ‘coon’s tail…if only you’d put your whole mind to it for strangers. It takes only a slightly different approach. From what preachers tell me, there is no greater joy than to see that stranger on the back row slowly stand, then walk down the aisle. Never forget what Pascal said about those seeking to be found…
This is just a set-up, for someday Bernie will write about the “disputation-style” (it’s a passion with him, there may be a book in it) of give and take, not dissimilar to the Socratic method, made known to him by a martyred Spaniard, Ramon Llull in the 13th Century, as he tried to engage the Moors. He was so good at disputation they hung him. (And he was so good at going his own way in this sort of evangelizing…as a kind of charismatic, and scientist…the Church never beatified him.) But rather than tell them stuff, he asked questions…which drew them down a path of inquiry he knew their own teaching had denied them. Llull knew the Q’ran and Hadith as well as any Muslim. Simple enough, huh?- We can all take lessons from Llull. VB
With that in mind, my target today is the the pseudo-atheist, where he comes from, what made him who he is, and how to engage him. Just don’t ignore him.
Bernie and I both believe that true atheism is not on the rise in America, still hanging around 1%-2%. What is rising is religion-hating, and in a big way. There’s a difference, as I’m sure you have already figured out. While there is a lot of overlap between the run-of-the-mill hate-blogger on the internet and the anti-religionist posing as an atheist, I think a special note needs to be written here to any of you who may want to jump into the anti-religion battlefield, a la D’Souza and Hitchens. As I said, with Bernie, it is a passion. (There are snippets of that debate, and the full debate, 90 minutes. I recommend it just to set the mood, but I’ll be talking about the bottom-feeders we most often see on the internet in this essay.)
I say this because this is a war fought by proxy in many ways, and many of those souls are genuinely searching for something bigger in their lives than that which state-sponsored pop culture and public schools have provided. In fact, most of them are, considering their youthful age and rank on the hate-anger totem pole. Remember, most of them are no more than the useful idiots of Game-masters and handlers, much like the sellers of dime-bags on the street corner. They only distribute evil, they don’t manufacture it. Even if their side wins, they will still be the first ones eaten.
So, engaging them requires a special touch if you are a person of faith, for while we all want to retake the public highway in the name of Truth and Virtue we don’t want to jerk the hook of civil and spiritual salvation from their mouths in the process. Christians bear a special, and personal, responsibility in this regard, I think. While I sometimes wonder about their Puppet-masters, these pottykinder do have souls and it would be a terrible thing to push them deeper into the abyss without at least first casting out a line.
So take a very close look at your mission, so as to insure you do not make them hate more. Rather try to make them think twice about who and what they hate. Then walk away with the peace that you tried, and may have succeeded…but will never know for sure. You plant a seed whose fruit will be picked by someone else, a true anonymous gift.
(By the way, that is what true constitutional protectors do, ahem.)
This fight with pseudo-atheism has been a long time coming (the war with the real thing has been going on for ages), and it’s a fight for all of us, not just the religious. While organized religion in America has invited some of the vitriol now being heaped on its head, the timing of this new battle has little to do with whether religion is riper for the picking today than it was say, forty years ago. 80% of Americans still profess a belief in a Higher Being, covering a wide range of religions, but as Mark Twain noted when the Anglicans still ruled the political roost in America, there are professing and professional Christians, so it’s impossible to know how soft (or hard) that 80% is. An argument can be made that it is soft…in fact, mushy.
But this new anti-religion crusade has little to do with the outward professions of faith of say George W Bush, for it would be no different if Ronald Reagan, who rarely went to church, were president. In fact, I’d wager (has anyone documented this?) that Reagan publicly invoked God and prayer at least as often, if not more than Bush. And would anyone care to count the number of times Senors Clinton and Obama invoked God and faith, wink-wink?
It’s more a sign of the political and cultural times than the religious. The anti-religion Left just thinks the time is ripe, and this is in part because of the displayed anger of their newly-found power base among these shrill bottom feeders…who they can both feed…and be fed by.
How serious intellectual atheism came to be, or how it can best be combated, is not our turf. That is a battle that precedes even Darwin, and which is fought on a field much as Hitchens and D’Souza displayed; thrust and parry. Only recently has intellectual atheism allied itself with the political left, whose agenda was always to drive religion back into the catacombs, and for some very anti-intellectual and anti-constitutional reasons having little to do with the purposes of true atheism. (So, I’m a little surprised Hitchens jumped in, which tells me much about him he doesn’t know I know.)
But this is where we do step in, for if it is about the Constitution, we jump in hard…with both feet.
How this army of pseudo-atheistic cannon fodder was forged is our turf, as the absence of religion in their daily culture is a major part of who and why they are. You see, they are the political snowball rolling down the hill toward civilization’s village, and while dormant once again, recently, they did help propel Barack Obama over the top one time, and can be mobilized again. Their handlers know their buttons. And demographically, they continue to grow, in fact, continue to be spit out like rabbits in a warren.
I think it’s important to try to get inside these childrens’ skins, especially if you are older, like me, because they view religion through a completely different lens than any kid growing up anywhere in America in the 1950s and early 60s. Maybe you never considered that. I didn’t, until Bernie told me to.
I confess I was stunned. I thought I knew more than I did when I assumed they would see the world pretty much as I did. After all, I grew up in the original rock generation. Not so. The world has flip-flopped from my day, so we should all consider the way the cultural basis of religion has changed in the United States since the mid-1960s.
In the 1950s my world was permeated with the cultural signs of religion. My small town was predominantly Protestant, a standard mix of Methodists and Baptists, sprinkled with just about every other Protestant sect. In my world there were few Catholics and Jews, but in the cities not that far away that image was almost reversed, Protestants the rarer breed. And everyone wore a coat and tie to church.
So it was then that nearly every American heard a church bell on Sunday morning in the 1950s. Did anyone complain? Well yes, sort of, for there were always plenty of hangovers on Sunday morning, too. And during the holidays, virtually every person saw the bright colors, lights and symbols of the season regardless of religious faith, or lack thereof. Did anyone complain?…probably, but under their breath…and that may be the point here.
And, yes, it follows that religion was extended to the public schools. We had school prayer, and it’s true, some kids shuffled their feet uncomfortably. But not because they were Jews, Buddhists, or the children of atheists, when someone invoked a Christian theme. They were in the minority, for sure, but their minority was based on their pa, and maybe their ma, who “didn’t much give a damn” about religion. Those were the homes of children who’d never heard the name of God unless it was used as an adjective. And Christ was the last name of a brother and sister team, Jesus H. and Sheezus. But beyond that they knew little. Some fathers drank, or beat their moms and it showed up in the way those kids performed in school and the clothes they wore…and the way they smelled. But no, they weren’t always poor as the politician allow, I’ve known doctor’s kids to come from this lot, and in my town every person worked, and every job was top dollar, so there were no layabouts, no poor.
There were just two classes, low-class and the rest, and the low-class were defined by “not giving a damn”…about a whole host of things, from personal hygiene to good manners to the value of a good education…to God. Everywhere there were men who got up and had Sunday breakfast with the family, and dressed for church while others cursed those g**-damned bells clanging against their hangover…never knowing someday they could call City Hall and there would be someone there ready to enlist them into a victim-constituency.
It was only natural the children of those parents had never heard a prayer, or the Bible read anywhere until they came to school. But then again they’d never heard words like “Please”, or “Thank you”, or “Yes Sir” or “No Ma’am” either. By second grade they weren’t a stranger to any of those things any longer, though pa still didn’t much give a damn and they’d still never seen the inside of a church. Their worlds had just gotten broader, that’s all. They were nicer, or at least knew nice when they saw it.
Up to around the mid-1960s, American cultural history was all about that 80% of us out there, swapping seasonal lights and festivals, and parades and cards every year. It was this culture that was beckoning assimilation for the “don’t give a damns” in the same manner, a generation earlier, it had millions of immigrants just clearing Ellis Island.
Since that time however America culture has been all about those 18% and their children, and their grievances against an over-bearing culture, and how Congress saved them from the evil machinations of the Methodist Women’s Garden Club. Americans gave money to missionaries overseas but every community knew that the real mission was just down the street, across the tracks, and those don’t-give-a-damn parents and their kids. Think of the inhumanity of never letting those blank slates at least get a taste of the other side; good manners, a good book, the smell of a clean bath and clean underwear…and why not throw in a little God from time to time, thank you, Sir? Those children were the target of missionizing and civilizing zeal in America’s village.
Herself, Lady Disdain, often spoke through ghost writers about it “taking a village”, but a cornerstone of our national village in the 1950s were these public displays of our villages’ many and varied religiosity. That was the American village…which she’s helped bury, if anyone’s bothered to notice, for the children were her side’s target as well.
Instead of propping up the village, as Lady Disdain claims, the state has turned Don’t Give a Damn’ism into the national model, subsidizing intellectual and moral laziness with rewards of easy, safe sex (which in 1963 I’d certainly have sold my soul for), videos, games, music and chips & dip. It’s mean old Mr Potter’s Bedford Falls…where the saloons are over-flowing, no one ever owns his own home, and everyone goes back to work on Monday broke.
This low, easy road is now America’s public highway, so it was only natural that someone would come along and turn it into a secular religion. And, in a span of two generations it has prospered and grown. The physical culture of the child rules…notice what Honey Bunch is wearing for Halloween this year?…which makes us wonder how quickly the 80% today who profess a belief in a higher being will soften even more. It was always designed to be a snow-ball, you see.
So what hath Congress and their infernal bureaucracies wrought? Well jump forward and you see the brave new world turned upside down. The law of unintended consequences? I’m not so sure. The “don’t-give-a- damns” have been franchised into a genuine victim class…so much so they don’t even have to complain for themselves anymore. They have their own self-appointed ombudsmen to be the squeaky wheel on their behalf at very level of government. It’s their rice bowl that feeds the bottom feeders the schools are pumping out in record number and now infest the internet. Religion, like the free market, offers a ladder out of the hole of despair and poverty. But all the Don’t-give-a-damn’s have to do is act aggrieved, and stay put in that hole, and pagan bureaucracy will decorate and clean that hole up, and throw in a rug, a warm blanket and free coupons for Pepsi’s and chips down at Seven-Eleven. Only there is no ladder out, economically, spiritually, and now as we see from the internet, culturally. Don’t-Give-a-Damn’ism has transcended both poverty and ignorance. It’s now as educated and middle class as Cindy Sheehan.
That was always the game plan.
I liked the old ways betters, not only because of God but how so many of the children of the Don’t-give-a-damn’s turned out. That is what we care about, these pottykinder, how they turn out, isn’t it? In those days, thank the ladies of the churches and the school board…run by the parents…that so many did cross over. (There’s a formula here worth remembering, by the way.) And today, thank the state that so many haven’t. It wasn’t God so much as the village (versus the state) who lifted them out, only since there was no way to separate the village from God, the Left just got rid of both.
What Congress and its bureaucracies did (and I think intentionally, if you read the literature of the day) was break the generational chain of religion (or allow no new ones to be forged) just as it has done with so many other aspects of culture, and sanctified Not-giving-a-damn as the only officially recognized religion in America, led of course by an elite band of statists, more commonly referred to as modern liberals. Today, we are left with the ugly specter of public-school trained Wikipedia-thumping potty-mouthed know-nothings being led around by Cliff’s Note intellectuals.
Religion, unbreakable moral certitudes, are one of the cornerstones of the American House (according to Moses Sands), itself a cornerstone to the US Constitution, itself the keystone to human liberty. See the math? I don’t think I can out-talk Christopher Hitchens, but on this account the math is simple and undeniable, public religion is an essential plank in human liberty.
Mr Sands spoke about the chain in the House being broken by government and how hard it is to re-link it once broken, and the same is true about the religious chain.
The new pottykinder of the internet are the result of two generations of broken chains…no regular live-at-home father figure, or an abusive one, a doting or (the reverse) indifferent mother, so no House to carry forward, and no hope of blueprints to start a new one, thanks to the public schools, intellectual under-achievement, and of course, only the remotest first hand experience with people of faith, possibly an aunt, or grandmother, but certainly no one from their personal circle.
It’s the opposite of how I saw my world as a child. The average school kid today never sees or hears any sort of expression of religiosity in any public place, schools or the city square. (Which was always the plan.) True, 80% still say they profess a belief, but law and popular cultural scorn have caused true believers to hunker down, as if they’d committed a crime. Mom and Dad may be pushing for heaven, but the school yard is pulling for acceptance in the herd. Fifty years ago you sneaked out behind the schoolyard to whisper a dirty word to a close friend, but now you have to sneak out there to tell him about Jesus.
This generation sees religion only from arms-length. What they know they learn from stereo-types in the pop culture, videos and films…of either 1) a meek, milquetoast, wimpy, weepy and starry-eyed fool, or 2) a loud, obnoxious, pushy, redneck with high hair. These are Christians they can mock and easily ridicule. In funny, “humor videos”, e.g., eBaum’s World and Glumbert, where Christians especially are depicted comically, and where there can be direct unrestrained interaction between commenters, if a polite Christian comments (as a kind of troll), they first respond with a kind of quiet forbearance, as if to say “go away”, which many Christian in fact do, considering the language (rough) and tone (aggressive). If he/she persists, they up the volume. But if he stays and spits back, as one of our colleagues (Streamline) does, and continues to do, first they go ballistic, then recoil, then slowly modify their behavior and language. (Stream could write a book as well, as he is trained as a scientist, and ethicist. More than that, he is an evangelist working some really dark streets.)
This isn’t necessarily a victory for our side as I’m not sure if they feel they’ve had their mouths washed out with soap, or been judged in a venue they thought made them invincible to judgment, or, perhaps, they just became acutely aware that they were being watched by third parties…but their behavior does change. Streamline had created his own following, you see, so now, the cuss-fests and put downs are less fun. No matter what they do there is always someone there to wash their mouths out. This is called “draining the swamp.”
While this may explain a lot, it does not explain their anger entirely. You’d think pigs in shite would be more in harmony with their wet, warm environment. These kids aren’t; they’re angry and bitter, and while I have yet to determine what they truly hate (we’re getting closer), I am quite certain it is not things they have to make up lies in order to justify. In other words, it isn’t George W Bush. Or Christianity. Another culprit might be Mom, for not having or keeping a Dad around (similar to the love-hate young black gang-bangers have for their mothers), or Dad himself, or it could be the pop culture, for making laziness so seductive and easy and so much fun…so easy in fact they can postpone going through the rite-of-passage door to adulthood…while hating those who have. We’ve witnessed a lot of envy-jealousy-hatred from these kids who still sleep in Mom’s basement, against people who seem to have made it on their own, and yet who they feel infinitely superior to intellectually.
With Bernie Chumm’s help my suggested approach to dealing with these pottykinder on the internet is to assume they are not true atheists. They don’t disbelieve God, they just don’t like Him. They don’t approve of Him. He is judgmental and they don’t like rules, especially unbendable ones. They like a world in which they can bend things to suit themselves…just like they always could with Mom (God bless her). This is a far cry from disclaiming His existence, just as it is a far cry, as Hitchens suggests, that by removing religion from political discourse, one can nonetheless keep morality in it.
They are sad and pathetic, but in truth they must eventually make their way on their own, without any of the reinforcements we have grown up with, and come to know as reliable support. They ain’t got any, and most will fall by the wayside.
Like the corpus of left-wing bloggers, the pseudo-athiest is defined by who/what he hates, and in the end, although it may take a while to wring answers out of them, who they hate is generally hidden, possibly unknown even to themselves. I suspect a kind of self-hatred.
Still many seem to be searching, seeking to be found…and given time…
Vassar Bushmills and Bernie Chumm
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Between interuptions it took awhile to read through this one.
Steph C (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 10:42AM EST (link)One thing I’d like to add to the mix for those who will go into “battle” would be the premise that we don’t own the psuedo-atheist’s offense. They do.
We have the tools to do this in the form of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights but sometimes our application of those tools breaks more than they fix.
I’m as guilty as anybody “giving back in kind” but it doesn’t help.
On your other diary I mentioned my way of “picking at the scab” and how it often degenerates into my being called horrible names. This diary gives me a little hope that if I persist in spite of the hate and anger, perhaps one of those back pew attendees will take away more than anger and hate.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
I'm sure i'm worse than you...Steph C
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 2:16PM EST (link)…it just that it’s important to me to know that I know better.
This is a big deal with Bernie (the argument part) besides, he goes into their camp. He has team, sort of. But understanding why they are as they are is my turf…and when Bernie called them the “don’t give a damn’s” the scales fell from my eyes.
The Left has been able to take the world view of our lowest-class people, gutter trash, and make it acceptable, and respectable, in the middle class…all as a way to bury religion. That’s political, more than cultural…and religion was always the target.
I agree with that part, especially.
Steph C (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 2:54PM EST (link)Not that I don’t agree with the whole but that part stood out especially stark to me.
The fight against religion is centuries long, really, especially those who adhere a Judeo-Christian version of it. That’s why I forwarded the premise of “we don’t own their offense”.
All the fights, in and out of court over Christmas trees, prayers in schools, and even having a bible near a school, makes us own others’ state of being offended.
That is not what this country was founded upon but upon the right of individuals to have individual freedom, both to worship, or not, as they pleased.
We have to make them own it because it is theirs, not ours.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Vassar, where to start.....
penguin2 (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 11:05AM EST (link)A lot of thoughts churning for me, so I’ll try and keep it short. It helps considerably that you are able to point out the difference between the concept of “true atheists” and “pseudo-atheists.” It clarifies the fight in understanding not only who we are fighting, but why. I think I understand this diary, as well as Brian’s and your much earlier post. It makes sense. Knowing more about the why the Left is seeking to destroy that which we hold dear, traditional American customs, tenets and religious beliefs – to take out God, as in a battle, where they seek to be victorious, though I can not fathom them getting a complete victory, ever…..
I went back and reread that post, “Civility and the Rules of Engagement” and I remember now why I was perhaps sensitive/defensive and uttered those initial silly words, “oh, how not fair.” There had been some recent, very heated battles between regulars here, firepower being aimed at our own, as well as questionable visitors. I agreed with Icythus’s diary, but I tend to be protective of them even if they may have been in the “wrong.” Actually, it is a harder road I walk, feeling affection and support for the many personalities here, and I get downright sad when I see the battles raging amongst ourselves.
Vassar, I apologize and am embarrassed for being presumptuous in that early post. Mortified is the perfect old-fashioned word for it. I truly hope I wasn’t a “gatekeeper” and strangely enough, I don’t want to be a “backbencher” either. I think I have the wits and skills to deal with those that visit us and I do try to do it in such a way that there is meaningful discussion. You and Bernie are providing more insight and knowledge to us for what we are dealing with and a how to……
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
No, dear, you never offended me (or Bernie) inthe least
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 2:10PM EST (link)No, you have some “your outta here” people, you’re not one of them.. I edited this with you in mind, in fact, as I wanted it geared more toward Christian sensibilities. You and Blaise Pascal would have been friends in another time.
Bernie has a way to confront these folks on this turf…a little on theirs. Muggeridge wrote a book several years ago, the name I can’t recall, but listed his favorite passionate Christians…among them Tolstoi, Handel, Kierkegaard and this Llull fellow who intriqued me because I had always liked early Muslim philosophers like Averroes and Avicenna.
Bernie needs to bring his chapter down to a workable 2000 words, and I’ll get it up here. It really is a two step process. I was just providing the anthropology…and the political agenda behind it. Noen of this stuff is by accident.
Thank you.
penguin2 (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 6:09PM EST (link)I am relieved and appreciate your understanding.
I meant to mention regarding your comment, “the absence of religion in their daily culture is a major part of who and why they are.” This, then, seems to be the Lefts’ center from which they have modeled their whole game plan for driving religion out of the public square. Drive it out of everyday life, drive it out of the culture, deny it and replace it. You mentioned the church bells, which we rarely hear today, and the symbols and signs, all forced down (rotten ACLU). Notice the decreased number of flags flown on patriotic holidays?
Our country, so strongly founded on Judaic-Christian precepts, is showing the impact of what they have done. Our love of country and adherence to the Constitution is tied to our faith. Driving God out of the public consciousness, enables the Left to take out the rest.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Thank you, VB.
huskerchuck (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 3:08PM EST (link)This is a great recitation of exactly what we’re looking at.
A couple of items, to let you know where I am in this:
I am a Christian. Have been since late grade school. A church camp really showed me the light, and solidified my path early on.
I belong to a local United Methodist church. The Methodist church has undergone many changes over the years, several of which I do not agree with. However, the church also is a lot more locally based, and our church is an untraditional Methodist church, more along the lines of a community church, with 4000 members, and 2000 attendance over one Saturday and three Sunday services. (stmarks.org, if you’re inclined to take a look)
I have a loving, Christian wife, and we raise our children to understand and believe in God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity. We have prayers on a daily basis within the household and regular discussions of the bible and what it contains.
I also have parents that, while not being the best Christian models while I grew up, made sure I had a good Christian underpinning on which to live my life.
My wife grew up in a household that professed to be Christian. However, she had a mother that was overbearing, controlling and verbally abusive. (MUCH toned down now, and since we’ve been married, but still has her moments) She has and grew up with a father that is a work-a-holic, would come home late many nights, and while paying lip service to Christianity, has a belief that what he has has come from him, and not from God.
My wife also has a brother. He is a self-proclaimed non-believer in anything. He also has a very mocking tone about many things and a disdain for females in general (and their parents can’t figure out why he can’t establish and foster a good relationship) that was basically, from what I can tell, fostered by their mother over the years. it is my belief that his non-belief has to do with seeing parents that proclaim to be Christians act as anything but in his life. It’s interesting how my wife dealt with their upbringing by turning TO God, and he dealt with it by turning AWAY from God. He can also be not only mocking (picked up the verbal abuse from his mother) but also physically abusive with his mother when he feels the urge. Another interesting aspect of this reared it’s head on Facebook the other day. He became a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and used that to mock Christians.
I hold a statement made at the beginning of a DC Talk song (we love Contemporary Christian music, and typically it’s either children’s music, CC, or Country playing in the car at any given time) as being a very good recitation of fact. We have so many that don’t like Christianity that their statement that ‘The biggest threat to Christianity is Christians themselves.’ I truly believe that if you dig, in each case, what has most likely happened is that somewhere along the line, someone was turned away by Christians acting as anything but. Each case will be individualized, but at the heart of it… I have yet to see a case where this isn’t there.
The name of that song is ‘What if I stumble…’ Or at least, that’s how it starts out. And I think we as Christians not only have to understand who we’re up against, and who we’re trying to convert, but exactly as you’ve stated…. how can we understand them, so that we can talk on that level to them.
Proud wearer of two bracelets, one for 2 and 1/2 years, the other for almost a year and a half. PK16, and PIF.
I truly believe that in confronting them, on their turf… we HAVE to be reliant on Him. Understanding the turf is necessary, but His Word, coming through us, will be what converts. It is not me, but Christ who lives within me.
Another good song… What This World Needs, by Casting Crowns. Talks about letting Him work, and at times for us to get out of His way so He can.
All right, gone on WAY too long, and rambled about some stuff that went beyond the topic. Hope I provided a little insight.
Thanks guys! Really enjoyed the read, and thought the comments were insightful, folks.
Husker Chuck
God Bless, and I’ll be back soon!
Thanks so much, Huckster.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 3:42PM EST (link)About the brother-in-law, it is funny how two kids from the same house can turn down different roads, usually because of people they met outside the house. Just remember, all that matters is how they turn out, and sometimes that is very late in coming.
In every relationship one has to be the steady Eddie, and that usually falls to the secure Christian. Most mockers are filld with resentment of some sort, and resentment produces a soul on a roller coaster. As long as there are fixed stars in their heaven they have a chance to find their way back home. I suspect you and his sister is such a fixed star.
Thanks for the note.
VB
What a timely piece you posted with this one, Vassar.
janis (Diary) Thursday, February 11th at 4:54PM EST (link)Being a child of the 50′s and 60′s too, I had a childhood much like yours. School and church were the twin pillars of daily life and the chief influences that shaped most of us. Watching the black and white episodes of “The Andy Griffith Show” is the closest I can come to describing it. When that show was produced, it was a reflection of typical small town America. Today, it is almost unbelievably exotic to watch it, to watch the church congregation singing the old hymns, to watch one example after another of the morality of the time….
Along with so many others of that generation, I literally couldn’t wait to throw all that old fuddy-duddy stuff overboard at the first opportunity. It was only later, when life kicked me in the teeth, that I turned back to God and threw myself on His mercy and grace. Looking back, I am abundantly grateful that the professional victim class was only a very small minority at that time, else I might well have turned to that instead.
The self-hatred that you speak of is, I believe, the result of being inundated in the thin soup of “You poor thing….”, a constant refrain for every occasion. No more looking at hardships as a character-building opportunity, no more striving to achieve when all the odds were stacked against you, it was all and always just marked down as “You poor thing….” and then you were excused from even having to try anymore. Being a victim was the “in” thing to be and being a hard worker, a self-made success, was to be just a sellout to nasty materialism and marked you as someone who hated the environment, your fellow man, and the sanctimony of noble poverty.
I experienced that “noble poverty” in my 20′s and swore I’d never be in that position again. I gave up the notion of being a Christian– until I got kicked in the teeth by life and turned back to God when no one else could help. And I learned the value of hard work and the satisfaction of knowing that what I had was solely due to my own efforts. Those who learned to rely on the government handouts for everything have no sense of achievement, no feeling of satisfaction in a job well-done. They have only the helpless emptiness of being dependent and the poisonous trap of knowing that they cannot be successful because then they won’t get their handouts anymore. For them, the handouts ARE the success. Anyone who doesn’t live that way is someone to be despised.
For those of us who still believe in the America that our Founding Fathers crafted, we speak a different language than the ones you write of, the self-professed atheists and professional victims. And what a difficult task it is to get through the usual rhetoric from them and actually have an intelligent conversation. I freely admit that I’m one of the ones who is most prone to kicking them rather than engaging them. What you advocate is certainly more productive over the long haul– so would you happen to have a ready source of patience that you could point me to? Dealing with a 25-year old son and his ex-wife over the subject of their choices for our grandchildren’s lives has pretty much exhausted my own supply. Thank you for posting this, Vassar.
Thanks, Janis. I know all your friends here also read this.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, February 14th at 4:36PM EST (link)My mother always said that every child had to walk through the valley of shadow…she said she knew we’d try all those things we’d been taught to deny. (boy was she right.)
She went onto say that all she could do is try to pray us through it, knowing, when we came out on the other side, having all that first hand experience, we revert to the things we were first taught that had been proven to work.
She was so right..although she still smacks me when I say “Shuckydern”. One other commenter told me, however, some people stay in that valley for years, and some never make it out, and others have nothing to make it out to.
On that account, Count yourself among the blessed. You seemt o have wonderful friends here.
Cheers
VB
The fight takes many forms
mriggio (Diary) Sunday, February 14th at 11:49AM EST (link)First off, Vassar & Bernie, thanks for the excellent diary. It struck many chords of memory and recognition; your primary points are beyond disagreement (at least from me!).
Since I retired 10 years ago I have been working part-time as an instructor of what’s called ‘special populations’; poor folks, displaced workers, single moms, etc. And I’ve noticed a hopeful change over the last year or so.
The mindset of unbelief or disdain for, especially Christianity, but really faith in God, has taken one heck of a beating during this time. When the misplaced faith in politicians, government and Hope & Change goes bad, and the economy for these folks in really in the tank, the whole concept of ‘I just don’t give a damn’ is no longer workable. The meager crumbs of municipal handouts satisfies not and envy of others turns from bitterness to questioning, as in ‘why can’t I do better, and be like them?’. The sorry excuses about discrimination, bad homes and bad friends begin to come into focus as what they really are: useless and unproductive. In other words, when you hit rock-bottom, the incredible Grace of Christianity manifests itself.
Bear with me here. I don’t evangelize my faith from the teaching lectern overtly*, but encourage the Constitutional freedom to succeed granted not by Governors or Presidents, but by you as a created individual American. Something you were born with; something only you can make work. Along with referrals to faith-based helpers, the point is often not only made, but in many cases blossoms quite nicely.
There still remains a strong and steady, but subtle, undercurrent of faith within nearly all of my students, most of whom totally fit your definition of ‘lower class’ and from the wrong side of the tracks. Whether it was instilled by Grandma, Auntie or some long-forgotten boy or girl friend, it’s there, buried beneath the ‘I don’t give a damn’ facade, waiting to be cultivated and exposed to the Son’s rays. Doing the cultivation is really less of an intellectual exercise and more of a persistent application of common sense and kindness; whatever you call it, where I live, it seems to be working.
Please continue the excellent postings! I know they give many of us great food for thought.
*Most of my colleagues and supervisors would cringe at the thought of introducing Christianity overtly in the classroom; but, nearly to a person, each of them is a person of faith, with heavy Church involvement outside of work, as discovered in coffee room chit-chats at our public educational institution.
mriggio
SMSgt, USAF (Ret)
Precinct Committeeman (R)
Tazewell County, Illinois
Save the
CheerleaderParty, save the World! (Heroes, ed.)Always so nice to hear from you, Mr Riggio.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, February 14th at 4:28PM EST (link)I’m a little encouraged by what you wrotel. I taught college in the inner city some years back, (AmGovt/BusinessLaw) and also found how certain chords struck positive notes with those kids…especially when delivered with enthusiam.
I am convinced that replacing the community of citizens with the state was the purpose of driving out religion from the public places, including school. I am comfortable with the notion that, as a mere appendage to the more notable social things taught children…hygiene, manners, respect, an appreciation for art, music, books…a general understanding of religion at worst is harmless. It’s with this mind I’d like to see framed a constitutional case to have the entire issue revisited by the Court some day…as part of a cultural advancement theory…
…But first we must retake the classroom. We will never be able to sue our way in. We must put them in the position to sue us out. Next time, they’ll fail, if we do it right.
Look forward to hearing from you again.
VB (and Bernie will see this tomorrow. I send his regards.)