The solution to every complex problem begins with a unified theory. All the pieces have to fit.
I’m Bernard Chumm, resident curmudgeon of the Sands Institute, living in Portland. Chatting, and other forms of uncivil intercourse, with the Enemy is my bailiwick, so to speak.
Vassar asked me to look in on the threads associated with a complaint by a regular commentator, Icythus, about the declining state of civility between commenting members on RedState.
There was an other-wordly quality to that entire session, since looking around us, with news from Washington almost as the news from Dunkirk in ’40, our Republic’s toes already teetering over the precipice, to be wondering if tweeds would be more suitable for that final tumble into the abyss than black tie and dinner jacket.
Not to seem glib, VENUE is much of the problem here, as I gathered from the initial complaint that 1) RedState is a conservative, even Christian, site, and that much like the YMCA, anyone who is willing to respect the significance of the “C” in that acronym is also invited to participate.
In other words, you speak of this site as a kind of club. Being outsiders, although we agree with almost everything being done here (we’ve been watching much longer than we’ve been posting) I can’t help but note the clubsy atmosphere. Them and us. Trolls seem to be anyone who is one of them. Regardless of their use or mis-use of the English language, they are uninvited.
The standard warnings about club membership, of course, apply, as I was once a member of a North Carolina country club in the 1970s. Any club can first wrap its arms around you and embrace you, then restrain you. Hitler proved that peer pressure among professional club members (doctors, lawyers, civil servants) can be one of the greatest tools of murder imaginable. Marx did the same with academicians. He made them the unthinking tools for tyranny. Such is the power of the club.
What is other-worldly is that the Left occupies an entirely different place on the internet than most conservatives do, making the relationship between FrontPage posters on Redstate also other-wordly vis a vis back- benchers such as ourselves and Icythus. We are all only observers to a fight being led by others, commenting along the way.
On the Front Page there is a real war being carried out, with soldiers moving…on both sides. On our side, we read, we even edify, we comment, we commiserate (a lot)…but only amongst ourselves. No movers and shakers, no one in Congress, in the GOP, or other power circles really notice what we say. Thus, here, we have a club. There, they have a fight…and if you haven’t noticed, there’s a war on.
Now, I can’t know Erick Erickson original purposes, but it has worked. He, and this site, are now “players” to the extent blogs can be that. It has worked because RedState has become a center of conservative action, especially grass roots action, a clearinghouse for all sorts of citizen action in local communities. It is also a great news source. Most of all, being professional analysts ourselves, with a unified theory and an objective, we especially like the analysis found on RedState. RedState can cause things to happen. It can get things moving. It can even lead.
But speaking of “other worlds”, RedState is as close to accomplishing on the Right in the past couple of years what the Left has been doing on the internet at least a decade…using it as a weapon. It is in this context that I read almost all the commiserations about “civility” and the use of certain ill-tempered words among colleagues and common bondsmen.
Alas, and I really don’t know the “why” of this, too many modern conservatives aren’t of a fighting mind. While the Left can put 500 people to trolling popular conservative sites every day, or 100, or even a 1000 people to a location, e.g., someone’s store front, or into a bus caravan, inside a few hours, too many conservatives seem content to talk the problem to death inside their internet club, believing as many “professional Christians” (Mark Twain’s term) believe, that with that one hour visit per week to church they’ve made their weekly tithe to protecting the Constitution, retiring at night, sleeping the sleep of the innocent, wondering who is dropping the ball and letting Congress get away with all this stuff. “Sure as hell ain’t me.” (I’m sure you know this kind.)
If you haven’t gathered by now, though well into our sixties, we are all fire-starters in our little group. I’m the guy with a bag of rotten tomatoes, looking for just one clear shot at Lady Nan. If Congresswomen wore panties anymore, we’d be the ones trying to set up a raid to steal them…not just because that is what the situation calls for in these dire times…acts that are outside the box, and one step ahead, rather than behind the contingency plans paid handsomely for with considerable millions of the Soros-dollars Republican donors can’t seem to find…, but “Ay, God, Woodrow”, they are fun. (RedState should be working with donors for its own cadres for Agitprop, but that’s another issue.)
The Left uses the internet as a tool, as ammunition. The Right seems to use it as sanctum sanctorum, an escape from the rudities and crudities of the political world. I can’t help but believe this latter condition is caused from a nearsightedness that is damned near narcissistic in nature.
So, we like trolls, opposite minded people sneaking into a site and stirring up a ruckus…inasmuch as we think our side would be better at trolling than the Left. If armed with the facts, a keener wit, etc why not invade the bastions of Mordor under the shadow of darkness?
You see, our purposes would be different than the Left’s. Almost everywhere, when a fellow comes onto a site lobbing f-bombs, he/she is quickly dumped. Most beta filters catch the awfullest words, but, like email spam, they can still find a way. (On our home site I can say “d**n” to accentuate a point, but must say Richard Cheney, as they won’t let me say “Dick”. I feel like George Carlin in Las Vegas, trying to say “shite” in a town where the number one game is craps.)
What you may not know is that person/troll is as often as not sent there, as a probe. The Left has millions in the pop culture (which we don’t, since we abandoned it…another culture war we don’t want to dirty our hands with) who, from 15 to 21 volunteer for these missions all the time….because it is in their nature to do this sort of get-even thing. They were trained and prompted in the public schools and into the little cliques since sixth grade, just to nurture this type of alienism.
The reasons for most of these incursions is not to engage you in argument, but to cause you to tighten security, so as to make yourselves even more insular. They do this because they know your predilections for insularity (clubsiness). Why bother to lay siege to your sally ports when you’ve already bricked them up…from the inside? (At least you know how the GOP gets its leadership.)
Behind these useful idiots are a number of “mentor” sites…college profs, etc…who will mature them like so much chord wood….before throwing them into the fire. This has been going on for years, and is well financed. These mentors are just as erudite, well-read, and glib as your best writers here…only they have that army of cannon fodder and we don’t.
We argue, they can be had, made more security conscious themselves, and even more paranoid, although it requires a deft hand and some perseverance. What they cannot do is be saved, at least by us. What can be done is to have their sense of invincibility made more vincible. We can hit them on recruitment, as being “cool” is their greatest recruiting tool. For instance, we have a volunteer science ethicist and Christian who liked to visit the “open sites” where anything goes. For three years he honed on a no-holds-barred Canadian video site, before they shut down. Now he’s asking deep questions on a very erudite pro-atheism. But on Glumbert he wrangled with a mob of about 5 regular scat-mouthed anti-American terror-symps. Identifying himself early on as a Christian, he took a terrible beating, five against one. He quickly proved what’ we’ve always argued on our site, that most atheists aren’t. They didn’t “not believe” in God, they just disapproved of Him. After all, He was a meanie who had rules that couldn’t be side-stepped, or fixed, or jury-rigged. And He was always saying “no”. As Vassar Bushmills wrote in his essay on the “Mother of All Liberalism”, the modern Left is nothing more than people who define themselves by what and who they hate; just a giant teat fit. Bushmills traced this back to Marx and beyond.
In this vein, our friend “streamline” would argue, and they would curse for several days, then as he began to get the best of them, they would simply move to the next anti-Bush, anti-America, anti-common man video, and the ruckus would start all over again…they believing they were starting with a blank slate. When the site closed down earlier this year, he had about 10 regulars on his side, and all but two of the original mobsters were still on board against him. The tide had turned.
This is how you win…by shutting them up. It is not for you know if you ever really won a point with them, but just like here, you do win points with the readers who are quietly watching.
We study their vanities, as well as their delusions. As with name calling, like most politicians, Lefties are almost impervious to being called liars by outsiders, for that is what they do. It is a tool…only, like Tiger Woods, they also lie to themselves. Carve a path toward unmasking that lie, and their own self-image crumbles in front of their bathroom mirror.
But ike Democrats in Congress, and the Clintons during Travelgate, they will move heaven and earth to prevent being shown to be incompetent. This is their achilles heel. To be seen as unsmart, especially among peers is almost suicide. This is also why certain words such as “idiot” or “liar” won’t work. Besides, as Vassar Bushmills wrote a year or so ago, the use of such terms are usually lies themselves. He says that every misstatement of fact can be from one of four reasons; stupidity (incompetence, idiocy), misinformation, lying, or self-delusion (a big Leftie disease among the young.) The greatest lie extant today is when a person says a thing is so when he cannot possibly know it is so. The entire global warming scam is built on this sort of lie…from the originators of the original data, to the analyzers, to the political repeaters of those “facts”. Get rid of that one lie in public discourse and we win. It’s that simple.
But once a fact of a lie, or incompetence, etc is proved, within a reasonable doubt, all bets should be off. In Mark Twain’s time, it was a fighting matter to be called a “d**ned lair”, or damning someone’s (innocent) mother by calling them b**stard or SOB. We should find the modern equivalent words to these fighting words today and use them for In our view, sometimes it is appropriate, even called for to not only call a spade a spade, but a fritzing shovel. And better from the mouth of Mitch than Erick Erickson or Rush Limbaugh.
So, back to Our Side, it does our cause no good at all, if we do have all the facts, all the keen wits, the moral, ethical and philosophical high ground, but have no backbone, no taste for a fight, or a willingness to get our shirts dirty and our nose bloodied, so as to take back the highway they patrol and control.
Let me finish by saying pointing out a few unified facts: As the Republic does seems to be collapsing, every man/women/family in America has to confront it and deal with it along a path of their own choosing, with the survival of their House first in mind. History shows most people, if allowed, tend to sidle off to the side before deciding on a final course of action. (That they will do this is part of the game plan of the Left, with the hope that it will be too late by the time they wake up.) In the Revolutionary War, almost half did just that, preparing themselves for a stark, frightening new beginning if the rebels won, or a continuation of the awful, but survivable usurpations by the crown if the King did. One of the devils, they already knew.
Our situation today is more precarious. Several million Americans have already decided they know the devil that lay ahead, and for them there will be no turning back. (My little team here also knows this devil, for we’ve seen it in its starkest form, in China, Russia, the eastern Bloc.) Most of these Americans are not on the intellectual side of the conservative ledger. They are not policy wonks. They have never read Von Hayek, though probably have read Glenn Beck.
Chesterton reminded us that the common man and woman have a greater stake in democracy than do his betters. 1) They can’t run away and relocate. 2), They can’t cohabit collegially. For them there is only fight or surrender.
I have to place this entire “civility” notion in that context. Decide on your own how and who you want to work alongside, despite or because of his use of the word “idiot” as a noun when it would have served a more honest purpose by being used an adjective. But in the end there will be a fight, an ugly fight, and a fight that will no doubt get some noses bloodied and shirts ruffled.
If you choose, for the sake of your vanities, the sidelines, especially over trivial rules interpretations, i.e., …when it is over, don’t expect the usual old seat around the constitutional dinner table. A bag boy down at QFC will have taken your place.
Bernie Chumm
Aaron Gardner
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
Vassar, my first thought-"oh, how not fair!"
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 1:03PM EST (link)But I’m a reflective soul and in rereading your post, I withdraw that statement. That said, I think you have some good points, as Icythus did in his diary, and all points need to be considered. One of the main ones relates to the basic rules at RedState, which is noted in every comment box. Since that is the foundation and set up here, it is not unreasonable to have some expectation of not blowing everything up. There is a difference between firing a pistol, rifle and setting off grenades. Because this is a community and in essence, a family, we may wrestle and get a bloody nose now and then, but in the end the siblings stick together against the bad guys.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Thanks, Penguin2, but I am Vassar...
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 5:23PM EST (link)…not my friend Bernie Chumm who wrote that piece. I asked him to. It was from an old playbook. He’s given that sermon dozens of times.
I’m not sure of your slant, but I think where you use “community” Bernie used “club”, with the more notable caveats included. I don’t get the impression that RedState is a QuakerState in disguise, but do see a difference between the FrontPagers, who seem to be itching for a fight, and angry there is no one in power willing to take that leap (We’re also on record as to how we feel about that.) and the “backbenchers”, as Bernie calls them.
As regards name-calling, I’m sure Bernie was against it, as was Icythus and yourself (I think), only not for the sake of the club/community, eh wot!, but rather the general inanity and incorrectness of name-calling. Even I can give a sermon on that subject.
But once the shoe is proven to fit, it’s another matter…
…which I am sure would not involve any of your community.
And yes, I understand we are guests, uninvited (sort of), and if I/we violate any protocols, we will be quickly notified, I am sure.
But we are also recruiters for a more spirited kind of fight, and not one designed to assuage the more delicate sensibilities of the tyrant-fighting-obedience-to-God-from-a’distance militia. Bernie stated that case quite well, I thought. It is a theme of ours, so I hope it doesn’t offend.
Did did he otherwise miss something? He’s actually an expert in the field, having taught radio talk show hosts how to fight dirty. He does take pleasure in mud-wrestling, which, for a 62 year old, with advanced degrees, is something to behold.
You quote Mr Franklin, and we reference him often as well. I do believe there is a big difference between a keeper of the flame and a club secretary, however.
We consider Mr Franklin to be a keeper of the flame, the Eternal Flame, and regret his absence America’s boardrooms, not to mention the halls of Congress, more than you can possibly know. But we also know why, as almost everywhere we go, every corporation, every political body, seems to be exactly one Ben Franklin short of an Alpha quorum.
It’s our business to point out the why’s as well as suggesting a few modern remedies.
And oh yes, it’s nice to meet you.
VassarBushmills
Vassar, your post works well too.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 5:50PM EST (link)Thanks, I kind of missed the switch out. So, you are saying the FP folks are coming on strong and they need us to as well? I understand their and our frustration with the GOP leadership, not going in for the “kill.” I think that is why RedState was founded, to get the grassroots of conservatism going again, to raise itself from the placid, dormant state it has been in, and rise up to be proactive vs reactive. Perhaps you are saying we are still in the reactive state.
Well, as I “backbencher” it is a difficult thing, but still, I hope to help those that can, do what I may not be able to do myself. I think of this movement as an engine, and while I am weak in mechanical knowledge, I do know that the parts need maintenance, spare parts, oil, grease, whatever, so it can actually run. In that sense, a penguin like myself does not mind getting a little dirty or feisty in the fight, as the case may be.
Hopefully, I haven’t muddled the meaning of the message too much. I think I got it, and nice to meet you too.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
After watching "March of the Penguins" last night,
janis (Diary) Sunday, December 13th at 6:36PM EST (link)I can vouch for their feistiness! Not to mention their tenacity in the face of danger and difficulty. You make a perfect warrior for the Right, penguin2.
Penguin2
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 4:43PM EST (link)I hope I didn’t misinterpret your note. Bernie is in and out, as am I. But this wahr is our job… fulltime…almost. We’ve had the luxury of a few stable clients, and the ability to travel back and forth to the cesspools of the old Soviet bloc, just to keep the alligators at bay. (Just once I’d like to waltz along Lake Como instead of the red ponds of the Urals.)
I think you get our drift. We know few can actually make this undertaking full-time, but wish more of those who can’t would be more aggressive with the time they have. Bernie actually targets the wunderkind under-30 crowd, as it is their Leftie counterparts who are “ploughing the row” for the rest of the Left on the internet.
This isn’t the forum to lay out all the things they (we) could be doing, but it is a lot. But it also requires a plan, or plans, and we can’t help but wonder why conservative deep pockets are sitting around waiting for all this to spontaneously combust, while Soros spent millions on the other side.
The best way to get to Congress is thru their staff…from the bottom up. There are ways to do this, but not hodge-podge.
Likewise, the political correctness crowd, especially in schools, are susceptible to the same sorts of intimidation that the AIG managers were earlier in the year.
If you want your elected leaders to be afraid, trickle it up. Alinsky wrote the book on it..but before him, the communists and nazis in Europe. Agitprop knows no political theology. It is a tool..defined by necessity.
As much as organizing precinct captains, we wish citizens would organize “notoriety squads”. Bureaucrats hate becoming known, outed. But again, where’s the money? It takes only about $125K a year to take a city of 20,000 back away from the Left…or at least the highway.
Keep watching. We’ll be posting some ideas here and there.
Vassar
great moniker, Mr. Bushmills
Beaglescout (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 3:34PM EST (link)I kind of missed the point of the article too, as did La Penguine. It was a little metaphorical in spots, and theoretical in the spaces between, and being of a hands-on bent I was looking for some practical advice, a story or two, and the strategic or tactical reasoning behind the advice. I think I agree with Bushmills and Chumm that it’d be useful to survey the left’s fields of intellectual battle so we can invade them.
For example: Digg used to need colonizing, but it has castrated itself by removing the shout function. Twitter is already a conservative strong ground. Reddit is crazed lefty kidville and badly needs an invasion of adults. Fark is hopeless because it is moderated by a rabid lefty. Youtube is the wild wild west. What other meaningful (web 2.0 or 1.0, or IRL) intellectual common grounds have you identified for colonization by adult conservatives?
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Thanks, I think...
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 4:51PM EST (link)…. sorry, we’re not writers but down in the mud types. Our metier is a long table with folding chairs…and candles. Where we work, as sadly, you may be about to find out here, the most ordinary of business and social intercourse has to be carried on covertly.
The Arabs of Bulgaria…a nice group…reminded me that one never speaks of any personal matter within earshot of anyone who might do him harm.
In 1890 in New York this was also the case…but probably never in Omaha. Even in Western Europe you will find this to be the case….reminding us that we (America) are probably the only repository of true, safe, freedom in the world.
Sadly, the “gift” of never having to look over your shoulder may now be out greatest curse.
Cheers
Very interesting
Black River Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 3:56PM EST (link)As I see it, conservatives will try and take the “High Road” and try to be the “Nice Guy”. But as usually happens they get trampled and loose out because the Left will use any means to win, no matter how ethically challenged it is.
I am thinking that at least some of us are starting to get it and fight back, and I think the Tea Parties are actually helping out to get organized, at least in rallies and such.
But I think you point is that we need to go into the Devil’s den and fight them on their own territories, such as The DUmmies and Kos Kids playgrounds.
Or am I missing the point all together??
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams
It's kind of useless to fight them in DU and Kos
Beaglescout (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 4:30PM EST (link)Their comments go into four digits pretty frequently. We’d just be noise. Maybe what Chumm was really saying was the same thing that Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse, “I want you to be nice until it’s time to not be nice.” That’s what a wise man told me not long ago.
Road House Speech
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Direct link here if the embedded link doesn’t work.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Ah Beagle, that is great!
penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 4:45PM EST (link)Plus his line, “never underestimate the opponent, expect the unexpected.” Something that the GOP needs to follow, then we won’t be blindsided.
One of favorite movies, along with Dirty Dancing.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Good Observation...RIP
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 5:07PM EST (link)All we won’t to do is make the Enemy know he is under attack. Bernie’s better at it than I am, but see how many people have already responded?
That’s how it’s done.
Cheers
That's exactly how we see it...
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, December 15th at 5:04PM EST (link)(Bernie’s away) Yes, and for one reason: they can’t win a stand-up argument. It takes some practice, but yes, they hate being beaten in front of their mates. Bernie’s close to writing a book…a little different from the Glenn Beck idiot book…about actual tactics, leading questions, awkward questions, the ones they can’t answer but also can’t walk away from…not in front of their mates.
I’m sure you see where I’m going with this.
If you go to Kos and decide to chime in on one of their frontliners, he won’t respond (they never read it, guys like Olbermann mail it it anyway) but his acolytes will. You may be tossed quickly, according to the site’s troll rules (RedState has the same, btw), so those “awkward openers” are very important..it may get you a couple of parries…
It can be fun, for once you’re in, you’re in. And you can’t lose. True you don’t get the chest-beating sense of victory, but what you do get is knowing there are 50 others just watching/reading who you’ve just pulled one of their molars.
These are small victories but once Mordor (my favorite metaphor) senses you/us smellign around their gates, they get uneasy. That’s the Plan.
Cheers