Knew this would happen eventually, somehow I hoped not…
Back in February, a little over a month in office, Obama lifted the restrictions on the press using dead soldier’s pictures; I was pissed. Then, as now, I apologize for any bad language that may escape me.
Michelle Malkin today posted this (via Blackfive), and now I am beyond words.
And the predictable Huffington Post, ever as vile as its Troll-doll namesake, Arianna, decided to unleash Greg Mitchell;
Going back to 2002, I have been writing about the shameful reluctance, even refusal, of U.S. media outlets to carry graphic images of the true cost of our wars, to Americans, in Iraq and Afghanistan — dead or even, in many cases, gravely wounded U.S. soldiers and Marines.
Earlier today, the Associated Press — bucking the wishes of the Pentagon and the victim’s family — decided to go ahead and transmit such a photo.
The “man” then goes on to call the dying Marine’s picture splashed around for all the other trolls to use in their feeding frenzy “tasteful”. I’ve seen the picture, it is not.
To his credit, SecDef Gates, as noted in the links, said;
“Out of respect for his family’s wishes, I ask you in the strongest of terms to reconsider your decision. I do not make this request lightly. In one of my first public statements as Secretary of Defense, I stated that the media should not be treated as the enemy, and made it a point to thank journalists for revealing problems that need to be fixed – as was the case with Walter Reed.
“I cannot imagine the pain and suffering Lance Corporal Bernard’s death has caused his family. Why your organization would purposefully defy the family’s wishes knowing full well that it will lead to yet more anguish is beyond me. Your lack of compassion and common sense in choosing to put this image of their maimed and stricken child on the front page of multiple American newspapers is appalling. The issue here is not law, policy or constitutional right – but judgment and common decency.”
Gates is a replaceable gear in the machine, and as such his remarks will no doubt be discarded by the AP hacks and HuffPo bridge-trolls. Besides that, George Bush(tm), therefore “I inherited”.
I’m calling on my Commander in Chief to formally call the AP as well as Huffpo on the carpet, publicly and loudly, if he ever hopes to earn the respect of those he’s supposed to command.
Of course, at the root of all this is the Disassociated Associated Press and their decision not to abide by standing poilcy not to allow pictures of dead and dying serviceman and women to be published if the family requests that specifically, as was the case here.
Again via Blackfive;
The AP reported that the Marine’s father had asked – in an interview and in a follow-up phone call — that the image, taken by an embedded photographer, not be published.
AP reported in a story that it decided to make the image public anyway because it “conveys the grimness of war and the sacrifice of young men and women fighting it.”
How much more plain did it have to be? Exactly what more needed to be said to convey the message that the photo was definitely not to be published?
I’m calling (a voice in the wilderness?) on the Pentagon to reject any and all embed requests from the AP for some meaningful specified period of time. This can not be allowed to stand. There are and should be consequences for violating standing orders that all service members know well.
As Michelle stated; “But ambitious, agenda-driven members of the MSM don’t let rules or wishes get in the way of a good story”
This time it should cost them, and cost them plenty.
Steve Maley
Daniel Horowitz
Jake Walker
Victoria Coates
There is NO excuse for using dead or dying...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 8:52PM EST (link)soldiers or any human beings for that matter to SELL YOUR SOUL for a pittance!!! The AP and the oldstream media as a whole are ghoulish and disgusting and they hurt families in their rush to MAKE the news instead of the just telling the truth and the stories without an AGENDA! There INDEED MUST be a consequence for this pathetic excuse of a “news” organization!
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This absolutely disgusts me...
discerningconservative (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 8:57PM EST (link)When I saw this story earlier today, I was enraged. You have done an excellent write-up on it Erick. Recommended and tweeted.
Thanks
Erick Brockway (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 9:02PM EST (link)It’s like revision 37 or 38. Too many expletives.
Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.” -Ronald Reagan
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Do you think this can be brought to the attention...
penguin2 (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 9:09PM EST (link)of Hannity, Beck, Rush? Maybe if they do a story on it societal pressure will make a difference.
Your grief and justified anger is palpable, Erick and I am sorry for the pain you and obviously the stricken families feel.
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When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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i thought it was not possible
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 9:24PM EST (link)to be more despicable than Reuters. I was mistaken.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Thank you for speaking out
redneck_hippie (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 9:41PM EST (link)and here is to the continued demise of the ever-hated AP’s pseudojournalism.
Best regards, Erick
Boycott...letter writting something
SteveLA (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:23PM EST (link)Erick
I’m all for a boycott of anyone using AP’s news products, or a massive letter writing campaign directed towards the AP’s board of directors.
This is wrong from so many levels that something or someone must do something to AP for this outrage.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
I call on y'all to eliminate AP news headlines
redneck_hippie (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:31PM EST (link)from your home page. There are other alternatives out there, even if it is BBC or Reuters.
No Republican interviews to AP reporters
SteveLA (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:36PM EST (link)A complete and absolute ban by any elected Republican politician talking to an AP reporter.
If “news” and political news is part of what they are selling, the makers of news on the Republican side should start with drying up the source and ask Blue Dog Democrats who still have respect for our military to do the same.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
To Kowalski myself
SteveLA (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:49PM EST (link)I just wrote a note to the Republican caucus at Contact House Republicans asking for a boycott of all Congressional Republicans speaking to AP.
Please take a moment and express your views on the matter with Republican leadership.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Another outrageous AP Story about Palin today
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:53PM EST (link)Citing costs on the order of $150,000 incurred by the state of Alaska due to her resignation without mentioning the costs on the order of $2,000,000 incurred by the state of Alaska to fight the nineteen frivoulous ethics charges filed against the governor which resulted in a big 0fer for the plaintiffs.
Can we stop with linking Palin to everything
SteveLA (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 10:56PM EST (link)I could give a tinkers *(&* about the trials and tribulations of what ex Governor Palin was or was not done dirty by AP. To even mention something about her in light of this outrage is (must obey the NO Profanity rule).
Just stop…
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Seems like you're suffering from a case of PDS
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 11:17PM EST (link)Did you know that Palin gave the keynote speech tonight at the CLSA Investors Forum in Hong Kong? Click here for the transcript
Now if you’d calm down for a second, you’d see the ridiculous bias in a story that cites $150,000 in costs due to her departure but omits $1,900,000 million in costs heaped upon the state while she was governor. I’m not a Palin-bot.
Sar-ah Pa-lin CLAP, CLAP clap-clap-clap
Sar-ah Pa-lin CLAP, CLAP clap-clap-clap
Sar-ah Pa-lin CLAP, CLAP clap-clap-clap
Stepping back
SteveLA (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 11:26PM EST (link)If you can’t wrap yourself around the thought that the treatment of the death of a hero of our country, a fallen Marine, at the hands of the AP is a much more serious matter than anything Governor Palin may have experienced at the hands of the MSM then you really need to try to think hard.
I do wish a moderator would step in and explain that to you the disrespect you show to Lance Cpl. Joshua M. Bernard with your beclowning act.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Step outside
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 11:28PM EST (link)tough guy
I have to agree
Neil Stevens (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:19AM EST (link)The comparison is terrible and surely would embarass Sarah Palin if she knew a supporter made it.
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
And I can absolutely tell you that the comparison
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:55PM EST (link)REALLY pisses of at least one Marine Corps family. These are mutually exclusive events and issues.
I apologize for my lowpoint at RedState
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:15PM EST (link)My comparison was thoughtless, and I shouldn’t have reacted to the criticism as I did.
I apologize to the family of this fallen soldier, to all current and former servicemen, to the author of this diary for inserting a mess, to those that pointed out my error, and to the RedState readership.
Not to worry
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:17PM EST (link)No great harm, and nicely said.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
S'alright. Many have erred...nt
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:20PM EST (link)Apology accepted
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:24PM EST (link)from this RedState reader. Nicely done.
FOCUS! Remember: Big BRObama Lets Them Do This
Ausonius (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 11:04PM EST (link)because he lifted the restrictions, as the diary notes, back in February.
What could be the motivation for Big BRObama to let such pictures be used?
To demoralize our troops? To hope that anti-war sentiment will grow, giving him no choice but to cut and run?
Remember that we have a crypto-pacifist as commander-in-chief!
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
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Really, it's pretty hard to boycott AP
Cheryl (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:24AM EST (link)This needs to be placed on the idiot in chief who approved this.
“A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America, than the whole force of the common enemy.” –Samuel Adams
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I smell a Pulitzer coming up
bk (Diary) Friday, September 4th at 11:07PM EST (link)Hell, someone will probably nominate the embed for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Lifetime Ban
island_native Saturday, September 5th at 8:01AM EST (link)The AP ceased to be a credible journalistic organization a long time ago. They are little more than left wing operatives. Of course they should not be allowed to be with the troops, ever.
The military would be wise to more closely assess the left wing wolves calling themselves journalists it allows with the troops. Their propaganda is very damaging to us all.
This is Unconscionable.
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 8:40AM EST (link)This is well beyond the pale of “tasteful” and any attempt to portray it is otherwise is disingenuous.
There was a time when the press was a neutral observer to the experiences of our nation. A time when they could be somewhat trusted to honestly portray events from a neutral, politically unencumbered perspective. That required sound judgment and careful reflection regarding the words and pictures used to describe events. After all, isn’t that part of the so-called “art” and professionalism of journalists?
This is nothing but stooping to the lowest common denominator, without thoughtful reflection or professional interruption. They have betrayed the trust placed in them by our nation and in this case, our military. They have allowed political pretext as a substitute for judgment- despicable.
Mu thoughts and prayers go out to Corporal Bernard’s family.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
This reminds people that Obama is the 'killer'!
njre Saturday, September 5th at 9:05AM EST (link)Well, won’t this apply to obozo too – he is sending soldiers to Afghanistan death traps. Showing their pictures will remind everyone that obozo, the usurper, is literally ‘killing’ our soldiers himself for he has no legitimate CIC authority to command the soldiers!
njre check this out
h ttp://www.scribd.com/doc/20917727/WHOARETHEBIRTHERS4-0
h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpQlTN9kgfo
This portrays the MSM as they have been all along--
janis (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 10:08AM EST (link)ghouls and hyenas who feast on the suffering of others in order to feed themselves. Bad enough to shove a microphone in the face of someone who has just lost their house to a fire or tornado, or in the face of someone who has just lost a family member. But to portray the very image of a suffering and fatally wounded warrior is so perverted as to be evil.
They finally got what they wanted from this president that they couldn’t get from the last one– permission to defile the deaths of our troops. Obama owns this, I give him full credit.
I'm afraid
cars Saturday, September 5th at 11:13AM EST (link)that I heartily disagree with the take on this offered in the diary and many of the responses.
While I have the utmost sympathy for the family of the soldier in the picture and understand their reluctance to see the photo in the public domain I can’t agree that it is insensitive or unconscionable to print it.
We have so far seen many pictures of injured, dying and dead civilians in the Iraq and Afghan conflicts. It seems that there is no objection to those. Why, then, is there an objection to seeing the image of a soldier that is acting in our names?
Historically we have always seen the horrors of war depicted in the media – there are even pictures of the dead and dying in the Civil War. Why do we shrink from seeing the reality of the conflicts being waged in our names in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Why is it unacceptable to see our soldiers but not civilians? Can we not face the consequences of our collective actions? Can we not look at what we ask our soldiers to face and possibly suffer?
A soldier involved in a conflict is not a private citizen but is acting as the physical embodiment of government policy and as a surrogate for those civilians at home. As such – his/her actions are in the public domain and are rightly subject to scrutiny. Why should we balk at seeing the reality of asking them to put their lives on the line on our behalf?
I’m surprised at the reaction from a community that regularly asserts its support for the military.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
Cars, your comment infuriates me.
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 11:34AM EST (link)The callous disregard by the media to do it, is an abomination itself. Cars, I don’t buy the “holier than though attitude.” They did it for gratuitous and shock value. Obviously to some, standards of decency don’t apply. What would you consider too horrible and insensitive to print?
Is that why the leftists Dems get in an uproar when pictures of the horrors of abortions are publicized? What about the “consequences of our collective actions.” Don’t want to apply the same standard, do you? It might bring change to the abortion machine.
As far as the soldier not being a private citizen, that is an outrageous statement. on your part. God forbid, if you are ever hit by a car and are dead and dying on a street, will you want the press printing that all over their newspapers? After all, maybe we’ll end the use of cars because of that.
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When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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Most Americans respect and honor our soldiers.
penguin2 (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:30PM EST (link)Many of us view the military with high regard. They don’t expect to see their suffering plastered all over the front page or inside for propaganda purposes. And that is exactly what it was used for. No surprise the MSM, filled with leftists, are doing the dirty work for Obama.
And my rhetorical question to you about the press printing some disastrous moment in your life, applies to your family and their wishes. Lance Corporal Bernard has as much right to respect and death with dignity as you or anyone else in this country.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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The day anyone in the MSM publishes a pic of dead Ted
janis (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 1:34PM EST (link)is the day they can picture one of ours. I say that knowing full well that that day will never come for them. No family needs to see the dying moments of their loved one’s life splashed across the airwaves and print media for all the world to gawk at. And there is not a single soul in America with access to a TV, a computer , or the movies that hasn’t seen numerous scenes of carnage in war. This photo educated no one, informed no one, served no purpose other than to gloat that, at last, decency and any passing notion of patriotism was finally dead and buried under Obama’s watch.
God Speed, Lance Cpl. Joshua M. Bernard.
OccamsRazor (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:55PM EST (link)Thank You…from the bottom of my heart.
I'm sorry indeed penguin
cars Sunday, September 6th at 12:14AM EST (link)that my comment infuriates you.
I’ve been away from the computer all day and not had the opportunity to respond earlier. It seems my comments have not been well received. I haven’t had the chance to read the entire thread but will attempt at this point to enlarge on my feelings and respond to some of the issues that you raise.
I wonder that you or anyone would consider a soldier’s actions in the field the same as those of a private citizen. I don’t think the comparison with a civilian in a car accident is at all valid.
A soldier acts on his/her government’s orders and on behalf of the civilians not participating in the conflict. Those actions are for the purpose of protecting the lives and values of those at home.
I consider a soldier’s actions to be more akin to those of the police – and as such their actions in the field are not those of a private citizen. However, a soldier’s actions also have an inherently political context as well. Individual soldiers do not act on their own initiative but at the behest of the government elected by their fellow citizens.
I don’t consider the printing of the photographs of this young man to be a casual or gratuitous act. I consider the publication of photographs of war to be a public service. I think all those in service deserve to have their actions seen with clear eyes by those on whose behalf they act.
IMHO if I can’t look at the sacrifice that others are called to make on my behalf – if I balk at seeing and acknowledging that their courage may cost them their lives then I am a poor supporter indeed.
I look and I feel compassion and sympathy for that young man. I am proud of and awed by his sacrifice on my behalf – and I sincerely hope that the conflict he gave his life in the service of comes to a good end and his family can have the comfort of knowing that his life was not ultimately sacrificed in vain.
In past conflicts there has never been a question that those at home be shielded from the difficult and often mortal consequences of the young men and women that serve.
I grew up with daily images of the human cost of the war in Vietnam – some of those images of wounded and dying soldiers are iconic – in the sense that most of us would recognize them. The sacrifice of those serving was clear and those of us at home could not look away or blithely go about our daily business without being aware of those that acted in our name and ostensibly for our protection.
By and large we have been shielded from visually confronting the harsh realities of the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think there was a fear on the part of the previous administration that those images might provoke a similar backlash amongst the population that the ones of the Vietnam conflict did.
Be that as it may I don’t think that it was the correct choice. That some may attempt to use those images to serve a particular purpose is nothing new – but to exploit a young man’s death for a political purpose is a shallow and callous act indeed. It does not, however, reflect on the young man but on the one who would intend to exploit it.
For the rest of us – we should be able to look upon his sacrifice and honour him. It is not an abomination to see his gift to us and be moved by it.
I said earlier that I do understand his family’s reluctance to see it. It must be painful indeed for them to be reminded of their loss and the nature of it. But I don’t see why the rest of us shouldn’t share in that pain and loss and be protected or shielded from it. I think such pictures bring home to the rest of us what our soldiers are being asked to do on our behalf.
In reading some of the other responses to my original remarks I’m struck by the fact that no one has offered a reason as to why it was appropriate for us to see the visual record of other conflicts and the sacrifices and suffering born by both members of the military and civilians before – and yet this one picture is deemed highly inappropriate.
That the AP went against the family’s wishes is unfortunate. In that sense the publication is unfortunate in that the action has caused the family more distress. Do I believe that the family deserves some deference? Yes – and I think the AP recognized that by deferring publication of the article and the picture until after the family had the opportunity to see their son put to his final rest.
That the AP went against the military’s request is, IMHO, the correct action. Someone upthread commented that the press is supposed to be an objective observer of such conflicts and as such provide an objective record. To do so they cannot be seen to censor images in the service of the government’s interest.
The public record of war – no matter how painful to some of the individuals among us – has certainly not been at issue before. Nor should it be now.
I’m a (now banned) Canadian socialist troll.
cars, here's the thing I have about the picture.
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 4:14AM EST (link)Let me start by saying I know your comment was addressed to penguin2, and I’m not trying to speak for her, she’s well capable of doing that for herself and I expect she will sooner or later. But the AP became a propaganda machine for the left during Viet Nam and never looked back when it comes to war. They’ve become no better than the Hollywood paparazzi that keeps trying to get upskirt shots of Britney Spears or scaling security fences trying to see who some other A-lister has over for the night or surrounding their cars so they can’t even get away. You watch, as soon as one of these embeds gets killed by enemy fire the military will catch all kinds of grief for not protecting them better, just like the celeb catches hell because a Hollywood photog got his foot run over trying to get that one last shot.
Yes, I do dare to compare the AP to the paparazzi because the way I see it they’re both in the propaganda/gossip business anymore. Go down thread and read Erick’s comment where he quotes Julie herself. Here, I’ll give you a jump to it. To me, this comment of hers is key:
Doesn’t that sound just like the paparazzi’s “It’s because they’re famous and in the public eye” excuse? Plus, they get paid a lot of money for those shots, the more embarrassing the better.
I wonder how much money Jacobson got for her shot. It wouldn’t surprise me to find out she got a little more because of the picture becoming controversial. Just like the Hollywood paparazzi does.
Bottom line for me is the picture should not have been published because the family asked for it not to be. And the military. The propaganda potential of this picture is why the public record of war is an issue now.
Trust me, Ms. Jacobson and her AP bosses are well aware of the propaganda potential.
Kowalski: Re: Propaganda potential
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 4:35AM EST (link)The Huffington Post is already using it as such, per Michelle Malkin.
See my point?
Thanks TNJim, must be a reason I woke and checked RS.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:21AM EST (link)Feel free anytime to jump in, I always appreciate all the help I can get!
There are just so many issues involved here and I believe any sugarcoating and saying it is one thing and not really something else, is just outright disingenuous.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
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Cars, well you have been able to get in your anti-war message.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:06AM EST (link)Let me first state this Cars, I remember you from your pro-abortion stance in Mailloux’s diary ‘The Mask of Liberals.” I will note you didn’t respond to my remarks about publicizing abortion pictures and ‘”consequences of our collective actions.” Guess that doesn’t fit in with your side’s agenda. I do find it interesting how much your bleeding heart is pointing out the value and sacrifice of this soldier’s life, but you have the opposite belief when it comes to the unborn.
Your attitude remains “holier than thou.” Interesting how you decide “I don’t see why the rest of us shouldn’t share in that pain and loss.” You’ve missed the whole point of the situation. The family asked, pleaded for those pictures not to be published. It is a matter of common decency. And you’re going on about soldier vs. private citizen. I seem to remember there was quite a bit of outrage when dead American Soldiers were paraded through the streets of Somalia. Of course you being anti-military and anti-war, did you think those pictures were acceptable? I believe you would have, to use it for your anti-war stance.
You’ve noted there is a “political context” to a soldier’s actions, so too was there a political context to the newspapers and the journalist. In fact, it was all about politics. No one said they did it for “casual” purposes. No, there is a lot more at stake here.
Saying that people who “balk at seeing and acknowledging that their courage may cost them their lives then I am a poor supporter indeed.” That is a gratuitous remark on your part. BTW, rather than “by and large we have been shielded from visually confronting the harsh realities of the conflicts” technology today makes for constant, instantaneous visuals. An endless supply…And just so you don’t think I am naive and misguided, I am a former Navy Nurse.
As I said above Lance Corporal Bernard had as much right to die with dignity as any human being, whether he was in uniform or not. You and people who believe like you have no problem abusing standards of common decency to advance your own leftist agenda.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
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Agreed
Erick Brockway (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:32AM EST (link)We don’t allow pictures of traffic accident victims to be televised or printed, and yet she’s willing to let some poor Marine be splashed all over.
Would Julie Jacobson take a photo of someone hit by a car and “send it in”?
Note to lefties;
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Great response, penguin
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 2:07PM EST (link)I told her you were well capable of supporting yourself. Since she pretty much addressed the whole thread and I was already in there I decided to reply to her comment to you. Anyway, she’s now one less lefty whose talking points we have to refute.
My thanks again TNJim, I had been typing my comment
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 2:46PM EST (link)and you must have come in when I was in the middle of it. It took me a while to address all those disingenuous, but or so polite points, and remain reasonable in my approach. I really just wanted to tell her off. I have thought she was a lefty for some time now, and didn’t know how we could flush her out. Except maybe being 2 for 2. Pro-abortion and anti-military.
I am sad with the grief that I know his family must be feeling.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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You're welcome, penguin.
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 3:50PM EST (link)I, too, am sad for the family. Like Erick, I’m also outraged by the AP’s callous disregard for their feelings.
I compared them to paparazzi, and I meant it. The only difference is the subject matter. Sometimes, the Hollywood crowd asks for it by putting themselves in compromising situations when they know cameras are going to be present. Sometimes. The Bernard family did not, even pleaded with the AP not to publish. They did. As I linked above, now HuffPo is all over it.
I will give a nod of appreciation to the AP clients who decided not to run the photo. To the ones that did, shame on you.
public record of war and military request
mom2oneson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 9:17AM EST (link)cars I agree with you about those two issues.
continued
mom2oneson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 9:22AM EST (link)I saw a photobook about the Vietnam were a few years ago and it totally changed my perception of that war. I always thought it was something that old men were involved with..men with a lot of life experience. After seeing that book I was shocked at how young the soldier were.
I think the public record of war is important especially since we vote for a leader partly based on his stance on military.
The same is true of WWII, movie and TV portrayals
Achance (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:48AM EST (link)make the soldiers look much older than they actually were. Lieutenants and captains were in their early twenties mostly and the men were eighteen or nineteen with just a smattering of older men. There’s a stereotype of the grizzled veteran NCOs, but the whole US military only had 100,000 men in the late ’30s, so a force that came to number almost 12 million men and women was built beginning with the re-institution of the draft in, I think, ’40.
If you’ll recall that scene in Saving Private Ryan right after the landing where the camera looks out to sea from a high bluff and there is nothing but ships, machines, airplanes, and men from horizon to horizon. That is a depiction of an actual picture. Of all the “stuff” in that picture, the only things that existed when America entered the war in December of ’41 were a few of the ships and the men themselves and most of them were still in high school on Dec. 7, 1941.
In Vino Veritas
"Past conflicts"?
Erick Brockway (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:26AM EST (link)In “past conflicts”, as in prior to Vietnam, people weren’t using pictures of dead GIs as protest signs.
Let’s see how “correct” the action taken by AP turns out to be when the parents see their dead son’s picture televised during some leftist’s protest sign in front of some military base someday.
Your arguments are just the same basic talking points most of us have seen before…and as I type this I see you’re banned so I just wasted my time :-/
Oh well.
Bubbye.
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cars, since you compared our soldiers to policemen,
janis (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:38AM EST (link)let me ask you this: When was the last time you saw film footage or still shots of a policeman or policewoman killed in the line of duty? We don’t show that stuff on the news here. You want to know why? Because the dead deserve our respect and their privacy. We don’t even show dead criminals, now do we? In any news story where someone has died, the most you will see is a blood stain and a body covered up discreetly.
None of your statements ring true. More to the point, none of your statements makes sense in the world we live in. You are no different in your viewpoint than the photographer who published the shot over the objections of the family. How’s about we show up and film the next dead body from your own family and publish it? Would that be fair?
You speak to a ghost (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:41AM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Yes, well, a ghost may not answer, but they can still read. BOO! nt
janis (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:49AM EST (link)Actually they can't
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 12:01PM EST (link)Not until they delete their RS cookies
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Really,Neil? So what happens when they try to
janis (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 12:19PM EST (link)access the site if they still have their cookies? I didn’t know this bit of info.
It doesn't work (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 1:08PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Personally, I find it reprehensible
redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 11:39AM EST (link)that AP ran the picture after explicitly being asked by the family not to do so. This was not a humane thng to do, far from it. Our culture is coursened to the point where depicting violence is mundane, so the decision was made in order to propagandize, nothing more and nothing less.
Is there anyone who really needs to be reminded of what the horrors of war look like? I doubt that viewing the death wounds of a fallen hero adds value to our culture. The family should be respected and their wishes adhered to. Period.
But what about the actions of the president, who rescinded the previous administration’s policy in the first place. Whether that decision was right for our nation will continue to be debatable. The reasons for the president doing what he did to allow photography of the flag-draped coffins are what raise the alarm bells for me, and I am sure I not alone in this.
And that is the point that cars seems to have missed,
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 11:53AM EST (link)the family and the military asked them not to do it. Plus, when you read between the lines, the whole point of why many in the media wanted to publish pictures like that as well as the flag-draped coffins returning home was to fuel the anti-war crowd during the Bush Administration. It was just a minor inconvenience they didn’t get that dubious privilege until a liberal president took over.
Purposes for propaganda also
redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:06PM EST (link)include influencing people in other nations. Anti-war sentiment affects our nation’s ability to build a coalition of democracies to fight terror. Like I said, it is the reasons for the president changing existing policy that are alarming.
What are the reasons?
Even more important what are the consequences? Are the consequences intended, who will pay the price, and who will benefit?
The greatest sin here
SteveLA (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:56PM EST (link)TNJim
I think you hit on the greatest sin here, the family had requested that the pictures not be released.
I can understand that different points of view on the war in Afghanistan are at play and the AP is pandering to one view, but when the family asks something to be withheld then a very bright line has been crossed.
Up thread I called for a boycott of AP by elected Republicans, I’d like to modify the wording of that request.
It’s more appropriate for elected Republicans to begin a “Shunning” of the AP where possible. The term and concept of shunning appears in many faiths and should be well understood by many and is an appropriate response to this act by AP. If there is a morality and rightness or wrongness of respect for the wishes of family members in these matters, then AP has chosen to ignore these standards.
A Shunning of the AP by our elected officials is called for until AP issues an apology to the family and establishes clear and unbending rules to always respect the wishes of the immediate family in these matters, politics of the matter be damned.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Unfortunately, Steve, the AP probably won't do that.
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 1:27PM EST (link)In fact they seem to be digging in:
What I fear is this callous attitude towards the wishes of the family will cause people to stop enlisting, probably at the insistence of families because of this picture, and reduce our manpower to unreasonable levels.
This could be one answer to redneck_hippie’s question “What are the consequences?”
Unfortunately.
Nobody is standing up to them....yet
SteveLA (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 1:37PM EST (link)AP is digging it’s heels in for sure, but nothing like Mitch McConnell and David Bonner taking the floor of their respective houses and announcing a “shunning” by Republicans of AP.
As a teachable moment, a dialog about free speech, respect for the wishes of a family and how free speech only works when those doing the speech exercise some degree of self control and self censorship would be great. While freedom of speech is one of the most important things in this country, and AP will no doubt scream about that topic, responsibility is also part of free speech.
You can bet Dear Leader Obama will not use this as a teachable moment, perhaps our Republican elected officials will.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
That would be hard to do I think,
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:02PM EST (link)Republicans in Congress shunning them, because they need them as a way to get the GOP’s side of things out, even if it is distorted often (we have Fox, NewsBusters, and others to set the record straight then), But hippie’s suggestion below of the military shunning them might be more doable. They could at least make it harder for the AP to get pictures like this, if not an outright shun. I never was much for embedded reporters anyway, it’s just one more back the military has to watch, more so than their own guys and gals since it’s a civilian.
It may be that the military will reassess
redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 1:40PM EST (link)the criteria under which they allow journalists to embed. If I had my wish, the military would shun the AP. Shut them out unless they adhere to standards of decency toward our military and their families.
Like that would be a military decision. nt
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:04PM EST (link)True, we do have civilian control,
redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:08PM EST (link)for what it’s worth.
I told my son that if a "reporter" was ebedded
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:10PM EST (link)with his unit and they were involved in house-to-house he should shove the “reporter” through the door first to make sure he got a complete account of anything that happened.
I'da done the same, Mike.
redneck_hippie (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 2:15PM EST (link)I’ve also no doubt your son knew that some reporters are there to exploit, not to report, the news. In this particular case, the picture was taken at a distance, with a long lens. No chance of this reporter “becoming” the news.
No go
SteveLA (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 3:03PM EST (link)redneck
Military folks do not make policy, only the civilian leadership, in this case Dear Leader Obama.
JCS and the service chiefs can recommend, but it’s up to Gates and Obama. I’m not sure if Gates would be willing to go all the way, including resignation over this matter, but it would be an interesting development.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
G'bye
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:19AM EST (link)We don’t like Canadian socialist trolls around here, especially the socialist part.
Go try to wreck your own country’s politics. Oh wait, your Liberals are nothing but a bunch of crooks. And when they were in charge of foreign policy, they babbled nonsense like “A proof is a proof.”
So get lost.
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Kowalski
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:27AM EST (link)Le Crook in his own words:
RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Wow Neil! I'm so glad you did that.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:35AM EST (link)I’ve thought for awhile there was a problem and didn’t know how to get it out there. She was just so polite.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
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Jacobson & the AP
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:49AM EST (link)are akin to the propaganda that Al Qaeda spread.
Al Qaeda documents the death of our solidiers to recruit new Al Qaeda members. Jacobson needs to remember whos side she is on. Glorifying the death of a young soldier does nothing to help our side. This is a war – please remember that when the soldiers you desecrate are protecting your American ass.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Who is the photographer
hampa2 Saturday, September 5th at 12:27PM EST (link)Who took the picture and what Marine outfit is he currently assigned to?
The members of L/Cpl Bernard’s Platoon have every right to know who took the photo and who is responsible for distributing it. Maybe Bernard’s Company Commander will see that a picture of the embedded photographer is posted on every bulletin board where combat troops are serving and perhaps the Commandant of the Marine Corps will review the policy of embedding news people, who have no respect for the dead, with the people that we send in harm’s way.
RIP Lance Corporal Bernard and Semper Fi
The event was photographed and journaled by Julie Jacobson, an AP photographer.
izoneguy (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:47PM EST (link)The event was photographed and journaled by Julie Jacobson, an AP photographer.
http://urbangrounds.com/
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
The photographer was Julie Jacobson.
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 12:49PM EST (link)Bernard’s company was Golf Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marines.
There’s a reason why respected contributors like Mr. Brockway have links in their articles
.
Tournabout is fair play.
NightTwister (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 4:01PM EST (link)Photo of Julie Jacobson (with her husband).
From a google images search, I find she’s taken other infamous photos e.g. the Brittany & Christina kiss on the MTV awards show. A real class act, this one.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
AHA! So she does have a paprazzi mentality!
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 4:52PM EST (link)That explains a great many things, it also makes my AP/paparazzi comparison upthread a little clearer. Good find, ‘Twister.
Shame on the AP!
NObama Meg Saturday, September 5th at 3:14PM EST (link)I just wanted to add my voice to the choir of those who are thoroughly disgusted by the behavior of the AP. I sent them as scathing an email I could conjure up, while still trying to be as concise as possible. I’m also planning on contacting my local newspapers, begging them to instead rely on the AP’s competitors for their news wire services. And of course, I’ll most likely be sending a letter to officials in the military as well, adding my voice to your request that they deny any AP requests for embedding with the troops. If they aren’t going to follow the rules, if they aren’t going to respect the wishes of the family – hell, if they’re going to sacrifice their very humanity – they don’t deserve the hospitality of the US Military.
Thanks for keeping this information out in the forefront for more people to see. More people need to know just what’s so wrong with most of the MSM today. The AP is a perfect example of why the mainstream media and their yellow journalism just isn’t going extinct fast enough.
- Meg
Blog: http://www.baracknobama.net
Twitter: BarackNObamaNet
Email: NoWayNObama AT gmail DOT com
Julie Jacobson (AP) in her own words...
Erick Brockway (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 4:26PM EST (link)Julie Jacobson is the photographer for AP who took the picture in question. As all professional photogs, she shoots first and asks questions later. She has in fact taken many famous pictures over the years. Later, she did ask herself the question, “Should I send this on?”
Julie Jacobson, in her own words;
[My emphasis above]
In other words, “My agenda, my rules.”
In the end, the AP made the final call, again; “My agenda, my rules”.
Okay fine. Enlighten her.
Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.” -Ronald Reagan
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NObama's Minions Know What To Do
Ausonius (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 7:07PM EST (link)Quote from above:
“We have no restrictions to shoot or publish casualties from opposition forces, or even civilian casualties. Are those people less human than American or other NATO soldiers?”
Note the relativism in these words: our soldiers = terrorists.
Note the arrogance in the entire last paragraph.
No, moron, in fact our soldiers ARE MORE HUMAN than terrorists, because they are not deliberately blowing up civilians for a medieval theocratic ideology!!!
This is all the proof you need about why NObama lifted the restrictions: to foment anti-war sentiment in those “conversations” that Jacobson wants to catalyze. He does not need to say so openly: his minions know what to do, when such an action occurs.
By the way, I am also against TV stations playing tapes from 911 calls: for what purpose other than to pander to base thrills for their audience? People screaming on the phone while being killed or burned in fires becomes an entertainment no different from the slaughters of the Roman arenas.
Ausonius: 310-395 A.D. Teacher, Poet, Consul, General, Farmer.
Personal Tutor to the future St. Paulinus of Nola and to young Gratian, heir to the throne during the turbulent final years of the Western Roman Empire. When his former student Gratian was assassinated, Ausonius threw up his hands and retired to his farm in Gaul. Rome was captured by barbarians 14 years after his death.
Cato@rock.com
And one thing that is regularly overlooked by these liberals
janis (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 7:18PM EST (link)who say that we must be educated on what the cost of war truly is. We know the cost of war, so do our enemies. While we might be inclined to lay down our arms and live in peace, our enemies will not.
Libs need to educate themselves as to the cost of freedom and peace. That cost is the ability to successfully prosecute a war if need be.
Don't Say Liberal!
island_native Saturday, September 5th at 10:14PM EST (link)janis & all Redstaters & conservatives…
Please stop describing the Left as libs or liberals. You are paying them an unintended compliment. As David Horowitz points out there is NOTHING liberal about the Left. They are 100% totalitarian without any trace of liberalism in their soul. Leftist strategy means to gain power through government control, that’s all. Conservatives are liberal, the Left is not.
Would the world be a better place w/ 50 mil Iranians still under Saddam
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 7:37PM EST (link)If you follow these lefty’s statements to their logical conclusion, that is what they are arguing.
Would the world be a better place w/ 50 mil Iranians still under Saddam
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 7:51PM EST (link)NO….
And the world would be much better without a bunch of nuts holding 70 million Iranians hostage….
George Bush had every intention of invading Iran…
The left stopped that before Bush could finish the job.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Oops, I meant Iraqis (nt)
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 9:11PM EST (link).
Something else that's telling in Jacobson's piece:
TNJim (Diary) Saturday, September 5th at 9:00PM EST (link)Note that when she says in her next to last paragraph that she hopes to “make some people think beyond their comfort zones” and move them into some kind of action the very first thing she mentions is joining a protest.
I really don’t think she meant a tea party or anti-health care one.
This photograph ceased to be "tasteful"
aesthete (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 2:40AM EST (link)the moment that the AP disregarded the wishes of both the family and the military in publishing this photograph. Lance Corporal Bernard could have had the most dignified photo that has ever been taken in the course of the Iraq conflict, and it still would have been in extremely poor taste of the media to trample over the wishes of the family in its rush to politicize the last moments of a young soldier’s life. I still sit here, amazed that the AP would commit to such a rash and cold-hearted decision. Words fail me, and it is my hope that, despite the AP’s callous disregard for the family’s feelings, the family will be able to grieve privately. RIP, Lance Corporal.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Basic Logic....
billyd (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 8:22AM EST (link)What it should have come down to is simple. If 99.99999% of Americans wanted this picture published, but the Family of the dying HERO didn’t, it should NEVER have been published. NEVER!!!! How F-ing hard is it to understand? Do AP journalists grow up in a society in which you don’t intentionally inflict pain on your neighbor? This American Hero’s Father asked that the photo of his dying son not be used to promote a political agenda, and he was ignored. The people that wanted to use the picture will forget about it in a few weeks or months. It won’t be fresh in their minds. The family of this American Hero will always have to worry about accidentally coming across the photo of the moment their son’s life was ending while searching the net. Personally, i would like to see the AP removed from combat coverage, i would also like to see the AP ignored when trying to get stories from politicians. I would like to see Robert Gibbs refuse to call on the AP representative during press briefings. I just won’t hold my breath….
November 2nd 2010. What are you doing today to improve your tomorrow?
So...
somekid Sunday, September 6th at 4:51PM EST (link)We are going to assume no one here has ever carried a Pro-Life sign with a picture of a dead child on it? Just checking.
Psssst, kid. Over here.
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 4:56PM EST (link)I’d suggest you keep quiet some more and learn. Did you read all of the comments above? If so, then you need a reading comprehension class.
I'm here.
somekid Sunday, September 6th at 5:07PM EST (link)Yes, I did read it – but maybe I do need a comprehension class because this: “Don’t want to apply the same standard, do you? It might bring change to the abortion machine.” insinuates to me a complete admittance to the fact that the right uses pictures like that to strengthen their cause. (Just like the anti-war uses these pictures for anti-war causes.) Am I inferring something wrong?
I find both to be right. I think Americans on a whole have a very “if I don’t see, it’s not happening” mentality. If the family was fine with the picture being shown, then it’s the press’ duty to show it. Show the true face of war.
Kid, you definitely need reading remediation. nt
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:18PM EST (link)Actually, somekid, I would have no problem applying the same standard.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 10:58PM EST (link)My point upthread was to the leftist commenter that she found it “acceptable” to publicize the picture of a wounded and dying soldier, despite his family’s pleading to do otherwise. I contrasted that with the left’s screaming whenever pictures are portrayed of aborted babies. My point being, they don’t want those pictures shown, because the people who have become desensitized to abortion and the destruction of babies, would be so appalled that they would rise up and demand a change or a stop in the abortion machine in this country. It’s called hypocrisy. Just as they want to use a soldier’s agony for propaganda purposes, they cry foul if the equally abhorrent pictures of dead babies are in the public square.
And you do need to do some rereading. “If the family was fine with the picture being shown, then it’s the press’ duty to show it.” The diary and every comment on this diary clearly tells you that the family pleaded this not be done. And I guess I’ll repeat myself in case you don’t read anything else but this:
Lance Corporal Bernard had as much right to die with dignity as any human being, whether he was in uniform or not. To me, that is not open for debate.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
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Speaking of moderators, could someone please check in here.
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:13PM EST (link)Coincidence? Related to Cars?
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
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just to be clear
somekid Monday, September 7th at 9:33AM EST (link)@Penguin
Thanks for the first response that actually addressed what I said. Let me respond…
I had misread the article, I thought it said the family gave permission for the AP to post the photo. I agree COMPLETELY that if the family did not want the photo shown, then it shouldn’t have been shown. Just to be clear on that.
However, the bigger point is, I feel like we aren’t all in agreement on if the picture should be shown if the family DID agree to let it be shown. I personally think that photos like this do need to be shown to show the true face of war. Yet, keeping in respect of people’s rights and privacies, this should only be done with families permissions.
Also – to a few people who commented back, I’ll have you know, that I am basically a socialist, I’m so far left
… however – we will find common ground: I am PRO-LIFE. I DO believe life starts at conception, there for I DO believe you should show pictures, to show the TRUE atrocity of abortion. That’s why I brought it up – I wasn’t trying to be smug (ok… a little smug). I try to keep my views consistent – I am a steadfast pacifist and believe all life is valuable. (i.e. we shouldn’t be killing people in other countries, just like we shouldn’t be killing the unborn here.)
So that being said – I think the truth should be shown, no matter how ugly it may be – because people need to see what really happens. It is only ‘sensational’ journalism because it IS shocking – it is SUPPOSED to be.
What do you al think?
C
As you state you are a confirmed Socialist, and "so far left."
penguin2 (Diary) Monday, September 7th at 11:06AM EST (link)I don’t know how long that will fit in with the site. RedState is for the promotion of conservative/Republican causes, ideals and candidates. As you did indicate you are pro-life, I will respond.
If you look at all of my comments, each time I reiterated that Lance Corporal Bernard had the right to die with dignity. His picture should not have been taken and used for ulterior propaganda purposes. Your side has long believed and practiced abuse of any and all options to get their anti-war, anti-military agenda promoted.
Since say you are a steadfast pacifist, and you value all human life, which you say makes you pro-life; why not add in that every individual has dignity and a right to have that dignity at the end of their lives, rather than have their death exploited. Your beliefs and agenda infringe on the rights of others. That’s what Socialism does, the collective mind over the individual.
As far as your time here at RS, the moderators monitor the site. If all you have to offer is your Socialist beliefs, you won’t be here long.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
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Let's apply the same standard, then
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 11:42PM EST (link)Your side acknowledges legally that aborted “fetus” was a killed human being, our side stops carrying the signs, and we let the murder laws apply.
somekid: Can you read?
Martin Knight (Diary) Monday, September 7th at 4:47AM EST (link)What part of “The AP reported that the Marine’s father had asked – in an interview and in a follow-up phone call — that the image, taken by an embedded photographer, not be published.” did you fail to comprehend?
Plus...
somekid Sunday, September 6th at 5:01PM EST (link)Also – ironically enough, aren’t republicans supposed to be afraid of government control?Thusly, wouldn’t a FREE PRESS be crucial to keeping liberty? (i.e. Isn’t it the communist mentality to filter media so that only promotes happy-time “everything is going great” imagery?)
Btw – yes I am a left wing, but I frequent this site a bunch, because I honestly enjoy political discourse, and love hearing what other people who don’t share my opinion think. So, let me say: long time reader, first time poster, and I look forward to debating with you all, I hope you welcome me regardless of my opposite political ideology!
(I meant to put this all on my first post, but hit the ‘submit’ button by accident… haha.
Then you must be familiar with the Hinz Rule, which I hereby invoke. nt
TNJim (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:06PM EST (link)I am...
somekid Sunday, September 6th at 5:11PM EST (link)…not a troll. Was I disrespectful in any of my comments? I was merely asking a question.
Hitting the "Post Comment" button too soon
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, September 6th at 5:06PM EST (link)wasn’t your first mistake. Showing up and being a stupid snot was. And, for the record, we don’t have a “submit” button.
Oh, and the difference between us, we think.
!
somekid Sunday, September 6th at 5:10PM EST (link)Wow, this is going swimmingly! I do see you’re point: “We think”. I came for thoughtful, political, conversation – and boy, I’m not disappointed so far!
Also – sorry: I meant the “post comment” button. You know, the one that SUBMITS my comment to the server. But, I’m really sorry I offended you.
IF YOU ARE PRO-CHOICE, THEN IT'S NOT A CHILD
TallChE Sunday, September 6th at 9:53PM EST (link)It’s only a fertilized egg or a mass of cells. It couldn’t be a child, because then it would be the picture of a murdered child, not just a dead one!!!
see above nt
somekid Monday, September 7th at 9:34AM EST (link)Moral equivalence argument.
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Monday, September 7th at 10:02AM EST (link)It’s a favorite ploy of the left and too often we take the bait, but it’s a distraction from the facts.
Right says: X is wrong.
Left says: Oh yeah, but what about when you did (insert something unrelated).
Somekd, address the issue. Is the action of the press in this case wrong or not?
Support your arguments.
Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
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Sarah Palin: Shame on the Associated Press for Ignoring the Wishes of a Grieving Family
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, September 7th at 2:10AM EST (link)Sarah Palin: Shame on the Associated Press for Ignoring the Wishes of a Grieving Family
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=129417598434
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.