Crossposted at The MonT-SteR REPORT
Dear Pastor Jones,
I can appreciate your concern for the falsity of Islam. As John Piper notes, bad theology dishonors God and hurts people, and I can’t think of a theological construct more hurtful, more violent, more angry, more damnable than Islam.
Except for bad Christian theology.
As ambassadors of Christ, we are charged with the awesome responsibility of representing Jesus Himself to the world. None of us is perfect, and so at times even the most well intentioned believer can and will fall short. But since we are His regents, we must be careful not to take God’s name in vain by misrepresenting His will, person, and character. Behavior guided by a warped theological grid will inevitably do just that; the result is damaged hearts, relationships, lives, and even cultures. I know this firsthand by virtue of my own failures.
You have cited the radicality of Jesus as biblical warrant for what you are doing. Granted, Jesus did some radical things. He appointed a tax collector and a Zealot (political arch-enemies) to stand side by side as two members of the close-knit Twelve. He set aside the rights of his office as Rabbi and Lord and washed the feet of His followers like a servant. But most radically, He allowed Himself to be led like a sheep to the slaughter. He refused to revile in return those who beat and cursed him, and though twelve legions of angels were at His command, He allowed Himself to be tortured and crucified cruelly on a cross. He died: for you, for me, and… for Muslims.
He is Yahweh-Sabaoth, the Lord of Hosts, but I know in my heart that the teeming throngs of people deceived by Mohammed’s teachings move Him to grief. He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should enter into eternal life.
Honestly, I admire your courage; you’re sticking to your guns even though the entire world is frowning upon you and your flock. And I can even understand your desire to “send a message.” We’ve all been wounded by the acts of Islamic terrorists. We’ve all burned with anger as we’ve observed the wanton Islamic violence and intimidation aimed at our people and our homeland. But what you are doing is not love. It is not grace. It is not outreach. It is not redemptive. It is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Your message is actually one of reprisal — in diametric opposition to the Golden Rule.
Jesus’ bravery is demonstrated most clearly not in the overturning of tables in the temple, but in the act of sacrificing Himself for humanity — a race that has shaken its collective fist in God’s face in abject rebellion.
Our government has pressured you not to go forward out of concern for the safety of our soldiers. I beg of you — not merely out of concern for what violence Muslims may commit in response, but fearful rather for the Muslims that could be turned away from their Savior on your account — please desist. There is no shame or cowardice in turning from a destructive or unwise path.
Love believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love NEVER fails. What force, what political speech, what message could be more powerful than that of Christ’s love for everyone? I pray that, in the days ahead, your decisions and actions will be guided by His love and by the clear leading of His Spirit.
Yours in Christ,
Rob Monti
aka The MonT-SteR
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Agreed. Slinging insults (burning the Koran)
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 1:24AM EST (link)does no one any good and will offend many.
As a Muslim, I find this offensive ...
Martin Knight (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 3:25AM EST (link)My religion is no “theological construct” of violence – it values peace and kindness no less (and in my belief even more) than Christianity.
But I cannot deny that a certain set of Muslims (minority though they are) have given Islam a bad name and therefore I cannot blame you for thinking the way you do. I will only ask you to read beyond Robert Spencer and Daniel Pipes on Muhammad’s teachings.
That said, I appreciate what you have written here – because ultimately, it asks that so-called pastor not to hurt me by burning my Holy Book.
The difference Martin is how the "majority" approach the "minority"
civil truth (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 4:13AM EST (link)When a fringe Christian pastor threatens a Koran burning, virtually the entire Christian community condemns the action. As a result, such fringe personalities get no traction in the Christian community. (Same goes for Rev. Phelps.)
When an Islamic government (Iran) condemns a woman to stoning, especially when this sentence is based on strong evidence of a perverted jurisprudence* -only the sound of crickets from other Islamic governments and Muslim groups in the U.S. and elsewhere. As a result, this minority is emboldened and intensifies their influence and jurisdiction over the whole Islamic community – and numbers.
This pattern of escalating violence by Muslims in response to non-violent criticism is progressively undermining claims of the non-violent nature of Islamic theology. That is, the direction that Islam is taking appears to be increasingly at variance with the value you place on peace and kindness.
In brief, Christians have largely been able to clamp down on fringe elements so as to keep them a miniscule minority and powerless in their effect on the larger Christian community, whereas the radical (or whatever term you prefer) elements in Islam are a rapidly growing minority that is increasingly exerting their doleful influence over Islam.
————————————————-
*My use of the term “perverted” refers here to violations of Muslim jurisprudence by its own standards, not stating my opinion of Muslim jurisprudence
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Perfectly stated, civil. I'd have an easier time believing
eburke (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:29AM EST (link)that the thousands of deaths caused by ‘radical Islam’ was, indeed, a ‘fringe minority’, if the ‘majority’ of Muslims stood up and denounced that as loudly and as frequently as Christians have denounced this whack job out of Florida.
Unfortunately, except for a very few like Martin, I have yet to see it.
“All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Unified Patriots
The reason for that is textual
JSobieski (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:56AM EST (link)Christians clamp down on bad acts very quickly and easily because the teachings of Jesus clearly call for that result. The same can not be said of the Koran/Hadith/Sira and Muhammed.
As Andy McCarthy has noted many times, the violent nutcases Jihadists quote their scriptures often and specifically. The peaceful American types do not, and instead speak the language of a Western person instead.
At a minimum, it is clear that Islam is at least more susceptible to violent interpretations than any other religion I am aware of on the face of the earth. Given that the Koran is the only shared source of theological instruction for them (there are common Hadiths as well), logic dictates that the Koran has something to do with it.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
yes ct, but also, imagine if the mainstream of Islam were the equivalent of this Florida fringe. Instead of 911
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 4:50PM EST (link)we would have had the burning of 3000 books instead of bodies?
http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2010/09/09/if-only-mosques-would-settle-for-burning-billy-graham-books/
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Or three thousand copies of cartoons about Jesus? -nt-
civil truth (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:10PM EST (link)The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
exactly, which is why I can't work up righteous indignation towards the home of the Gators, who are scheduled to lose to Gamecocks in 8 weeks - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:22PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I hope you guys pull it off this time GC
kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:48PM EST (link)I hate FLoriduh, and I don’t much care for Urban Myth.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
"minority"....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:22AM EST (link)REALLY? I guess you have forgotten the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who rose up in great cheer at the great satan being DESTROYED on 9-11. I have NOT forgotten, they rose up in EVERY nation including this nation, in Detroit, in New Jersey and they applauded and partied when those buildings fell, seriously, if you watched the reactions around the world on that day then to say “minority” is to be disingenuous .
I know Martin you would like those memories of 9-11 to leave OUR minds but I will NEVER FORGET! It is the first thought I have to even caring about Muslims and it will be that first impression that stands with me as I watch them KILL In the name of Mohammad day in and day out around the world!
If the same amount of Muslims who are decrying this book burning showed up when Americans are murdered or are attempted to be murdered by their fellow Muslims well then there would be something to point to. It is unfortunately ONLY when they perceive themselves to be “victimized” do they show up in large numbers and since WE have a Democrat Party that is the ultimate “victim” here in America WE REALLY DO NOT NEED ANOTHER GROUP!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Jaded ... think back. Think back hard.
Martin Knight (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 8:13AM EST (link)I know Martin you would like those memories of 9-11 to leave OUR minds …
I’ve been here for over five years, actually longer than you have if I’m not mistaken, when have I ever given you that impression?
The Resident Crank
jimmyg Thursday, September 9th at 8:45AM EST (link)Her posts are thoughtless and annoying. She spews her incoherent thoughts on this site because no one elsewhere pays her any attention.
ROTFLMAO....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:08AM EST (link)a little man you know NOTHING about me at all…twerp!….LOL!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
btw jimmyg...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:16AM EST (link)put some chapstick on those lips before you pull them off of Martin’s a… or you will end up with bloody lips…hehe!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Martin....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:15AM EST (link)You want the opinions on Muslims to change because you work so HARD here at Redstate to do so and yet since 9-11 they have only hardened because there is NOT a majority willing to stand up and shut up those that kill in the name of Mohammad. I have seen you even talk of a “compliant” Sharia that is “compatible” with America, there is no such thing. When I see a majority come to DC and march on Washington in the name of religious tolerence then the tide will turn and yet a “majority” does come to DC each year and NOTHING in their speeches ever attack the killers they whine and moan like a bunch of liberals about being victims. I have been to one of those marches and oh my but they are “victims” and WE are the agressors!
the bottom line is this is a war and will continue until one side bends and it will NOT be the United States of America (well maybe under this wussy). The Pastor in Florida is now BACKED into a corner by Obama, Petraeus and Clinton do either do it or feel as if he has submitted and I suspect he will not submit!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
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Simply put, yes.
jdw4america (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 8:29AM EST (link)This is a bogus issue. If the MSM and the Democrats, their owners, cannot, by declaration change the American people’s opinion on whether a victory mosque should be built on HALLOWED GROUND, then they will drag out any excuse to portray us as villains.
If the Fort Hood murdering doctor is spun by the left as being a very sick man, mentally unstable, who just happens to be a Muslim, then why is it not spinning this pathetic pastor as being mentally unstable? Why? because he’s not a Muslim.
We all know that if the shoe were on the other foot, the left would be defending the right of “our Muslim brothers” to burn anything they damn well please – oh wait, they already have.
Go ahead, destroy the lives of 3000 families in New York; kill and maim a few – or hundreds of Spaniards on a train; bomb the subways of Great Britain; kill in Indonesia; kill in India; kill in Germany; attempt and threaten the genocide of the Jewish people. Heaven forbid WE should offend them by being offended. Never fear, our great and glorious leader has already bowed and capitulated in deference to the global orgy of blood.
As for the possibility that this impotent and obscure group of people, made to represent the entire Christian faithful by a biased, unprincipled and unscrupulous propaganda machine could have any impact on anything in the world were it not for this deliberate media spotlight is beyond absurd. Who ever heard of these people before now? Who knew of this pastor’s existence other than the few strays in the congregation?
Regardless of their prominence, their actions will neither initiate nor avoid further recruitment possibilities for terrorists in the Islamic world. As Ann Coulter has said, they had no problem recruiting members on before 9/11.
Obviously, it’s not about what we do, it’s about what they have decided to do, which is kill other people.
As for hurting Muslims with no ties to terrorism by burning their holy book, what can we say, – as they do, we have no connection to these people, nor do we seek it. However, we have seen our faith maligned and disrespected too, and for decades! Hollywood, the MSM and television regularly blaspheme Our Lord and ridicules our faith. Where is the outcry from the Muslim community that this infamy must not be tolerated, although it is presented and defended as freedom of speech?
I say this is wrong of this pastor. It is also legal. Just as the victory mosque is legal and wrong.
I understand, but...
The MonT-SteR (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 8:24AM EST (link)Martin, I’m sorry you find this offensive. I know I took a swipe at Islam, but as a Christian who believes in Jesus’ exclusive truth claims, I naturally do not accept the veracity of competing worldviews or faith systems — just as you deny the historic confessions of Christianity because you are a Muslim. For example, I doubt that you would look too kindly on the fact that I worship Jesus as God.
That said, I wouldn’t be happy about you burning a pile of Bibles on the anniversary of the beginning of the Crusades. If I obey the teachings of Christ, then I think it’s incumbent on me to “love my neighbor as myself” and stand up for you in this matter — it’s a needless and spiteful provocation. Terry Jones should not be doing what he’s doing, and I don’t think God is pleased by it.
“Truth, by nature, is exclusive. The one who wishes to do away with absolutes may as well speak of a one-ended stick.” -Ravi Zacharias
I feel the exact same way ...
Martin Knight (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:35AM EST (link)I naturally do not accept Christianity as a valid “faith system”, just as I would not expect a Hindu to accept Judaism as valid, etc.
… except, of course, I as a Muslim, believe that Isa (AS) – whom you call Jesus – believe that he was a messenger of Allah. For a Muslim, even though he was immaculately conceived, he was no “Son of God” to be worshiped but an ordinary human given an extraordinary task by Allah to deliver a message to a people who had lost their way.
We also do not believe he was crucified – we believe he is back with Allah to reappear at the end of time.
So we love, honor and esteem him – and he is ranked amongst the greatest of the Prophets of Allah i.e. Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Ayub (Job), Yusuf (Joseph), etc. One thing a lot of people don’t know is that a Muslim who does not believe in any of the Prophets’ prophethood is no real Muslim.
Ultimately though, I would not be happy to see a stack of Bibles being burnt, nor was I happy to see the Bamiyan Buddhas being destroyed, though I would love to see Islam supplant both Christianity and Buddhism, just as I expect you’d want all of humanity to be Christian.
The truth is that much of the violence committed in the name of Islam is more of an artifact of Arab culture (which is extremely quick to spill blood – probably due to the harshness of their environment) than Islam itself. The problem is that Islam does not allow wars of aggression – by definition, a war of aggression seizes to be Holy, which is why you see all the contortions so many so-called Imams go through to declare all sorts of things acts of war from the other side so that they can justify suicide bombing and such.
That said, I understand where you are coming from and I respect it. Thank you. I just wish you had obeyed the Golden Rule and not taken the swipe.
RE: I feel the exact same way...
The MonT-SteR (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 11:02AM EST (link)Thanks for your candor and the irenic tone of your post.
I’m aware of the Muslim perspective on Jesus and other People of the Book. That was part of my point. You and I are agreed on the exclusive nature of truth claims, but it seems like you’re telling me that I’m abrogating the Golden Rule by championing Christianity over Islam. You’ve essentially told me that my faith is a false religion predicated on idolatry, no? Harsh, but I’m not offended in the least by that. I just think you’re wrong.
I suppose it would have been wiser to have used used more diplomatic, less emotionally charged language in my first paragraph, but those sentiments denote in summary a number of my disagreements with Islam — the existence of peaceful Muslims like yourself notwithstanding.
No offense….
Blessings,
Rob
“Truth, by nature, is exclusive. The one who wishes to do away with absolutes may as well speak of a one-ended stick.” -Ravi Zacharias
This was the violation of the Golden Rule I was talking about ...
Martin Knight (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 2:17PM EST (link)I can’t think of a theological construct more hurtful, more violent, more angry, more damnable than Islam.
That’s where we suffered a disconnect.
Otherwise, we’re cool. Lakum deenakum waliyaddeen.
As a non-{blank}, I find this offensive as well.
acat (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 10:10AM EST (link)The problem here is that I don’t have a dog in this fight, so to speak.
I don’t claim to follow either religion involved, and I stay out of Florida – too hot and flea-infested – but …
This is still offensive .. but why? Because it is rooted in hatred and ignorance, the bobsey twins of human suffering.
Burning someones’ holy book is a deliberate slap in the face – in this case to those who are Muslim (hat tip to Martin) but it’s also a slap to those Christians who are more about outreach and less about anger. (hat tip to Rob) Those are obvious.
My dog in this fight, so to speak, is that I’d rather live in a world where we do all “just get along” but for that to happen, ignorance of one another needs to end.
Note here that I am not singing kumbayah in a drum circle or trying to organize a cross-cultural potluck – I’m not talking a touchy-feelie hippy (or biblical) “know your neighbor” – but we need to understand each other – trust each other enough to work together as countrymen. We need to settle our differences peacefully.
This pastors’ work makes that goal more difficult, and in the worst possible way. It pushes immigrant Muslims (unlike Martin) back into their insular communities – making getting to know them harder, and it reinforces the hatred due to ignorance on the part of small-minded individuals.
This, by the way, is equally true of the marchers in the middle east who burn the American flag on a regular basis. Think that one through, eh?
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Just the latest example, Martin, of your pattern of ducking serious arguments
civil truth (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:07PM EST (link)Martin, you consistently ignore my comments here at RedState, this being only the latest example. Indeed, in all the time we both have been at RedState, I recall only once that you have made a reply to a comment of mine (and even then, refused follow-up).
I spend quite a bit of time trying to compose reasoned comments but you seem determined to avoid serious discussion. Indeed, this refusal to engage has been embarrassingly evident: on multiple occasions you have pointedly responded to almost every other comment around me, leaving mine untouched.
Time to man up to your assertions about “moderate” Islam.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
MAK made clear to us all several weeks ago that his conservatism allows for the pursuit of Sharia Law happiness
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:19PM EST (link)via democratic processes. I was shocked to read it, but MAK was very clear, and so I have no more fundamental questions to ask. I do have peripheral questions, one of which I just asked in this thread.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
GC, I was also surprised/disappointed/stunned
JSobieski (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:59PM EST (link)I should also point out that the Andy McCarthy observation continues to be true:
Those instigating violence in the name of Islam quote Koran, Hadith, and Sira line and verse. They refer to texts constantly.
Those who suggest that Islam is a religion of peace that is misused by a few extremists almost never cite anything, and it they do, they avoid doctrines like “abrogation” which sweep the peaceful verses away with the more violent verses. I have on a number of occassions brought this up to Martin, but he has never responded.
Not saying he is obligated to respond, and I don’t blame him for not responding because I don’t think the McCarthy observation can be successfully challenged since its true.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
The actual intended meaning of Islam's writings give Osama bin Laden credibility - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 7:12PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
MAK, given the many fair readings of the Koran as inciting Muslims to kill the infidel, wouldn't it be better if your branch of Islam
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 5:17PM EST (link)have a Protestant Revolution that makes clear that your faction’s ultimate goal is that humanity voluntarily choose Sharia Law via votes in a Democratic Republic?
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
That would be contrary to the Koran
JSobieski (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:21PM EST (link)and thus unlikely to succeed. As of now, I am not aware of many people who are even trying, in terms of theology to do so. There are a few people trying politically however.
I strongly encourage people to read the Koran and some of the commonly accepted Hadith. Its like taking the pill in the movie THE MATRIX.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Mike, I believe Sharia is irreconcilable with the Constitution.
Flagstaff (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:25PM EST (link)This would mean it cannot be chosen through election in a DR.
My meager understanding of Sharia is that it is what it is, and for Sunnis, it isn’t open to modification or interpretation (since the tenth century). For Shiites, the ijtihad (basic sources of Sharia) are to be reinvestigated periodically to see if any laws should be changed to adopt to modernity.
Either way, Sharia seems to be a way of life which includes rules covering almost anything imaginable. Therefore, a government which bases its laws on Sharia would be one with almost unlimited power to deem anything subject to those laws. Our Constitution is the opposite. It sets down rules that (are intended to) prohibit the Government from intruding in personal behavior except where the behavior infringes upon others’ rights. A document of “negative” rights, you know.
Carry out the logic, and it’s clear that the two concepts are mutually exclusive, unless Sharia were voluntarily complied with on a personal level by individuals who did not have the power to carry out secular punishment, under the umbrella of a Constitution that regulated what legislators could or could not do. Sharia could NOT be superior to the Constitution. This structure is exactly what we have with all other religious “legal systems.” They can be used to settle personal differences as long as the process doesn’t involve breaking secular laws which are completely separate.
As you might guess, I think that Liberals would love to have it the other way ’round; that they would applaud the power granted by Sharia, although they would in the end be quashed by the result. And that has nothing to do with religion.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
exactly, which is why I was shocked that MAK holds such a position - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, September 10th at 11:15AM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Burning question
blackdog911 Thursday, September 9th at 5:56AM EST (link)The best way to get this to go away, simply ignore it. I really don’t think a church with 50 members is going to be able to scratch up more than about 12 copies any way. It is America, if a Mosque can be built at ground zero, a Jewish Temple can be built at Mecca, No wait that will not happen. Burn the books, let the chips fall where they may and I dare say the “grave consequence” will be minimal.
Burning answer
acat (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 10:13AM EST (link)I’m afraid they may have discovered amazon.com …
And as for the chips falling, this deliberate insult makes it harder – not easier – for immigrants to integrate their culture with ours.
Under what delusion does that seem like a good idea?
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Immigrants?
blackdog911 Thursday, September 9th at 3:17PM EST (link)Immigrants to this country should be required:
A: To fluently write and speak English
B: Understand and Obey our laws
C: Do this willingly and not have to be forced to do so.
How many Bibles, US Flags and likenesses of our past Presidents have been burned in the streets of middle Eastern nations? Did we threaten and protest? NO!! Should they? NO. Are my brothers in the Armed Services in harms way now? YES! Will NOT burning the Korans stop this, NO.
I’m not saying two wrongs make a right, I just saying, If they can be allowed to build a Mosque at ground zero, Let him burn the books
Liberals cracked the melting pot.
acat (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:15PM EST (link)Thus making the current mess.
How? “For the children”, of course!
Chicago has been an immigrant-magnet since the 1800s, and we’ve got the neighborhoods to show for it – Italian Village, Greektown, Chinatown, an so on.
Until the ’60s or ’70s, the way the immigrant system worked was pretty simple – parents lived in enclaves, usually in family groups, where the local services were provided in their native tongue – but their children went to public (or Catholic) school and were taught English, and then taught their lessons in English.
When the Irish cop or the Polish repairman or the suburban-wasp schoolteacher wanted to talk to the ethnic parents, they often did so through the children. Translating for momma was the norm for children of immigrants. It also broke down the barriers between all these different cultures. The Italian pizza delivery guy might hate the Greek health inspector, but they both learned enough English to get by.
Fix that particularly wrong-headed bit of liberalism mixed with union salary padding, and after the first generation immigrants, the rest will melt right in… because they’ll have been forced to learn how.
What I’m saying, Black Dog, is that the false preacher burning books makes things worse. It’s not “two wrongs make a right”, it’s “make my corner of the world a better place”.
I’ve got no dog in this fight, I’m not an adherent to either faith, and I don’t live in Florida, but .. that doesn’t make what this angry fool is doing any less wrong, any more than the protesters in the Middle East are wrong.
What it does is to show the ignorance and hatred in both groups.
Mew
p.s. Thank your brothers for their service to our country.
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Agree with this comment on all counts.
Flagstaff (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:30PM EST (link)From one non to another.
This is neither the right thing to do, nor the productive thing.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
Surely, you are not equating burning a book...
jdw4america (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 8:43AM EST (link)regardless of its content or value, with murder? Do you imagine that Jesus equates them?
RE: Surely, you are not equating burning a book...
The MonT-SteR (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 9:18AM EST (link)If you’re asking me that question, the answer is of course not.
What gave you the impression I was attempting to do that?
“Truth, by nature, is exclusive. The one who wishes to do away with absolutes may as well speak of a one-ended stick.” -Ravi Zacharias
I like pie...
PGDeFreese (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 10:29AM EST (link)but mine is made from an ancient Chinese secret recipe of such complexity that I doubt any of you will ever grasp just how unique this pie is and that is not just the taste alone that makes it so special.
While I don’t blame any of you for not having the upbringing and cultural experience to really appreciate this pie as much as I do, I believe that all pies are inferior to mine and the spritual peace I gain from this knowledge is extremely empowering. I hope one day that all will be able to appreciate a slice.
I like my pie, it is the worl’d best, but even my pie is distasteful when thrown in someone’s face.
_________________

Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words…-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
Heh.
Flagstaff (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:31PM EST (link)Great analogy.
“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964
I naturally do not accept Christianity as a valid “faith system”
izoneguy (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 4:25PM EST (link)I naturally do not accept Islam as a valid “faith system”
Mohammed was a promoter of violence who condoned the killing of the innocent.
How can a good religion start from an evil founder?
What makes you think Mohammed was acting in the name of God?
When Mohammed first started screaming from the rooftops that he alone had the divine word of God, the people of Mecca ignored him. However, when he started insulting and defaming the religion of the peace loving Meccans, they couldn’t take it anymore and tried persuading him to stop. Mohammed the coward was too scared of the growing hostility against him and instead of calling upon his Allah to strike down the Meccans, he crept out one night and fled for his life.
Ever since that incident, Mohammed was determined to take revenge on the Meccans. He escaped to Medinah, which had a sizeable Jewish population, and started plotting his revenge with a small gang of criminals. This was the beginning of Mohammed’s trail of violence, hatred and bloodshed that would soon destroy the once flourishing culture of Arabia. The story has been documented in detail by his biographers, – surprise raids on trade caravans and tribal settlements, the use of plunder thus obtained for recruiting an ever growing army of greedy desperados, assassinations of opponents, blackmail, expulsion and massacre of the Jews of Medinah, attack and enslavement of the Jews of Khayber, rape of women and children, sale of these victims after rape, trickery, treachery and bribery employed to their fullest extent to grow the numbers of his religion Islam which ironically was supposed to mean “Peace”! He organised no less than 86 expeditions, 26 of which he led himself.
The motives of the converts to Islam was never in any doubt. As D.S. Margoliouth states in his book Muhammad and the rise of Islam
“Of any moralising or demoralising effect that Muhammad’s teaching had upon his followers we cannot say with precision. When he was at the head of the Robber community, it is probable that the demoralising influence began to be felt; it was then that men who had never broken an oath learnt that they might evade their obligations, and that men to whom the blood of their clan had been as their own, began to shed it with impunity in the “cause of god”. And that lying and treachery in the cause of Islam received divine approval. It was then too that Moslems became distinguished by the obscenity of their language. It was then too, that the coveting of goods and wives possessed by Non-muslims was avowed without discouragement from the Prophet….”
Religion of Peace?
Koran 8:67-68
“It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful.”
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Forget religion. Christian have stopped conquering anyone
renny (Diary) Thursday, September 9th at 6:02PM EST (link)but Muslims are still following the sword of Mohammed.
Not every German was a Nazis and not every German soldier believed in the Nazis creed, but enough led a war against the world and destroyed much of Europe and cratered Germany itself in the process.
If there are Muslim moderates or even liberals, they better find their horses in this race or they will be swept away by the terrorists as German citizens were submerged by Nazism for over a decade.
I think burning the Koran is probably just stupid, but the furor that Islam has raised over the prospect is outright insanity. Muslims commonly destroy and deny Bibles everywhere. Our army in Afghanistan has burned Bibles it considered unwanted or over abundant. No one complained at all. Go figure.