Sarah Doesn’t Owe Johnny Mac Jack


There’s an interesting discussion going on right now about the possibility and desirability of Sarah making her way to Arizona next year to campaign for John McCain. It’s all speculation at this point because the challenger hasn’t announced.

I mean…just look at her.

But seriously, is there anything more fun than speculating about what Sarah might do? Not for my money…

The reason it came up is because Rasmussen has McCain and potential challenger J.D. Hayworth in a statistical dead heat at 45-43 Maverick.

Bill Kristol at the Standard thinks Sarah will ride to the rescue in the event McCain is about to fall.

I couldn’t disagree more. I can’t see Sarah Palin sticking it to her base by going back on her word to only back Conservatives. No way. That doesn’t happen.

What’s more though…? I don’t think Sarah owes McCain anything. Listen to me, Sarah Palin would have been where she is now one way or another. Look at her. If it wasn’t Maverick, it would have been someone else.

But more likely than that it would have been Sarah Palin herself. I knew who Sarah Palin was before McCain picked her. In fact, I’m pretty sure I posted something to the effect that I hoped he would pick her during the run-up last year. Can anyone tell me with a straight face that Sarah Palin would never have wound up on the big stage without John McCain?

Ludicrous I tell you. Ludicrous.

Justice McNamara said here a little while ago that “Sarah Palin is going to be President one day. It’s inevitable so accept it and live with it. Its star power…and she has it.” This is true. I think there’s more to it than just star power, but it’s true nonetheless.

But it’s true whether John McCain ever picked her for V.P. Some people are stars. Sarah Palin is one of them. She doesn’t owe John McCain anything anymore except maybe a polite thank you and a nice bottle of scotch for his retirement. All John McCain did was accelerate the inevitable.

Incidentally, I just wanted to highlight one of the funniest lines I’ve ever read in a blog post. Allahpundit:

Remember, Reid and The One are itching to revive amnesty in the Senate next year as part of their grand “piss off every last independent in America” strategy.

I literally almost fell off my chair laughing when I read that. I’m still laughing.

But, if that’s true, and I for one happen to believe it is, it’s just another reason that Sarah has to run, if at all, for the Conservative. This is assuming that Hayworth is not an amnesty guy, of course.

In the end, it’s probably most palatable for everyone if Sarah just declines to get involved with Arizona at all. But there’s no way she campaigns for McCain against a viable Conservative candidate.

She’s too right for that.


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157 Comments

555, and Hayworth is definitely NOT an "amnesty guy."

ColdWarrior (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:23PM EST (link)

Thank you.
ColdWarrior

In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?

Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and Unified Patriots.

Thanks CW

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:28PM EST (link)

I know now what the 5′s are too so thanks for that.

Yeh I don’t know Hayworth well enough yet, but the little I do know tells me he lines up far more closely with Sarah than with Mac.

Look, I respect Mac greatly. He is a true American Hero. I mean that.

But the question is who and what is best for this country going forward and his brand of mushy republicanism isn’t it.

Sarah was going to be here one way or another. I predict she’ll either stay out completely or make herself known for Hayworth.

Thanks again CW.

Russ

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

He was, but not is

wennejunk (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:50PM EST (link)

Good post.

One quibble, on the hero thing.

I respect and honor what he did for the country and what he suffered through. For that I salute him.

But that was history…this is now. He is no longer a hero. He could still be one, but would have to change his ways and stand firm against the wind.

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis

Fair enough

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:54PM EST (link)

I don’t think he’ll ever lose his hero status for what he endured. He’ll go to his grave an American war hero, at least in my mind.

But do the right thing NOW for your country is right. And that’s either go hard right yourself or get out of the way for someone who can.

And definitely, DEFINITELY, don’t try and impede Sarah Palin and her rise.

Thanks Wennejunk.

Russ

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

 
 
 
 

All I can say if this...if Palin goes to AZ to pull McCain keep his seat...she doesn't have the good judgement to be president

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:27PM EST (link)

he’s not her friend and if she’s too blind to see that McCain supports Schmidt and Wallace in their sleazy assaults on her since the election…then she’s to gullible and stupid to be POTUS!

I don’t think she’s that dumb at all…but if she makes that mistake…she’s toast in my book!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

It would suck, no doubt

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:33PM EST (link)

I said that elsewhere that I’d have to question her commitment to Conservatism if she sold out her promise and backed McCain.

It would be a real hit to her image. I too think she’s too smart for that.

Thanks Ace.

Russ

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

Well...the betrayal of conservatives would be a hit to be sure...but what it would say about her judgement would be far more devastating

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:44PM EST (link)

He’s not a friend…he’s a fiend….he’s always played the game of taking the high road while sending out the underlings to tear her…or any of his opponents in the Republican Party down…

I can imagine a scenario when they were discussing her nomination where they first talked about her popularity and star power which was already present and obvious at the time. The conversation would then turn to how they could use her star power to get Johny Mack elected…which would in turn keep her under their thumb and give them a chance to prevent her rise to power and keep her from taking the party in a more conservative direction…

Maybe I’m crazy…but I KNOW these kind of power conversations happen…and given what I know about McCain, Schmidt and Wallace…I wouldn’t be surprised if it were ever proven it happened…

anyway…I said all that to say her judgment in helping him would call into question her ability to detect the dagger concealed in the velvet kerchief therefore her fitness to hold the office of POTUS would be in question

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

That's fair

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:51PM EST (link)

I can accept that. It would be poor judgment after all that’s gone on between their two camps for Sarah to go out on a limb for Mac at her own expense.

I agree.

She doesn’t owe him squat anymore. If anything, being hitched to him now I think will only serve to tarnish her near flawless image with the base.

Let him go SP.

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

Amen with that...Srah needs to keep being gracious to him but by all means...let him go

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:17PM EST (link)

maybe wait till the current takes him 20 yards away and he’s about to get taken under by the undertow…then maybe throw him a ten yard rope…

:>)

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 

Spot on Ace

wennejunk (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:54PM EST (link)

She garners support because she’s smart and walks as a Conservative. If she supported JM, it would call into question both of those qualities and she would descend to the level of politician vs. leader.

She’s better off saying something like “I hope the most conservative candidate wins”

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis

Exactly

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 9:57PM EST (link)

That was my ultimate point, that I think if this scenario happens she should just stay out of it altogether. A non-committal ‘may the strongest conservative win’ would do just fine.

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

 

Ahhhh HAHAHA...I love it

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:20PM EST (link)

She’s better off saying something like “I hope the most conservative candidate wins”

And then finish off with

“LET”S MOVE ON!!!”

I Love it!

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 
 
 
 

You're speculation about what Palin might do next year

Tbone (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:17PM EST (link)

and your foregone conclusion do little to give anyone confidence in your opinion about anything.

As to who are what is toast in your book. Who cares?

The premise of this diary is of total inannity.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

ummm...what? nt

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:22PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

Toast? Huh?

thatsright (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:31PM EST (link)

What the hell are you talking about Tbone? Who said anyone was “toast”

You on the right thread dude?

I make no foregone conclusions and in fact state quite clearly that this is pure speculation as Hayworth hasn’t even announced that he’s running yet.

I just thought it was an interesting question since McCain is polling in a dead heat with him and the logical choice he might make to help him win would be Sarah Palin.

I’m just speculating myself. I’m drawing a conclusion based on what I think I know about Palin and where I hope she’d go if the situation arose.

I think the premise of your comment is complete inanity.

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

I think he was commenting on my reply to you...

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 10:59PM EST (link)

where I said if her judgment would be in question if she helped McCain out of trouble. his post is somwhat incoherent though isn’t it?

Maybe alcohol is involved

The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson
 

"Toast"? Do a word search on the page.

Tbone (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 11:12PM EST (link)

“I make no foregone conclusions ….” Really?

“I’m just speculating myself. I’m drawing a conclusion based on what I think I know about Palin and where I hope she’d go if the situation arose.”

ROFLMAO.

Tell us Carnac, what “conclusions” you have drawn based on your “speculating” about the effect of the Mayan calendar on the 2012 elections and “what you think you know”, and what you “hope” would happen, ……or not?

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

This statement is totally incoherent...I think Alcohol or some controled substance is involved nt

AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 20th at 11:47PM EST (link)
The “Big Tent” analogy isn’t the correct one…the correct one is a MAGNET…we need to be a MAGNET that draws these independents in who are sick and tired of what’s going on in WashingtonFred Thompson

I am sure that in your case intelligence and

Tbone (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 6:41PM EST (link)

rational thought must be “controled substances” and you without a connection. Pity that.

Now I will slow it down for you. The goof ball said that while he is just “speculating”, he “makes no foregone conclusions” and then proceeds a couple of sentences later to “draw a conclusion”. Idiot. Then he laughably states that he draws his conclusion based upon what he” thinks he knows”. Most sentient beings know what they know. He then further beclowns himself stating that he has also has drawn this conclusion based upon what he “hopes”. This rings the bell at stupid idiot level.

In that he obviously doesn’t require factual information to draw his conclusion, i just mocked him with a request to dazzle us with some more conclusions based upon nonsense.

Most of us live in a world of triple digit IQs. I’m sorry that all I could offer you was a day pass.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

Tbone- You remarked that "most of us live in a world of triple digit IQ's"

Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 6:54PM EST (link)

and you have just proven the point that some of those with very high, triple digit IQ’s are the most insane. I won’t put you there though, becaue I seriously doubt that you live in the triple digit world.

Tbone's problem isn't intelligence

aesthete (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 7:06PM EST (link)

It’s that he couldn’t make an articulate point to save his life, mostly because he eschews understandability in favor of being an all around a**. I consider him to fall somewhere between troll and fool, with “troll” being the high end of the spectrum, and as such, have decided to stop responding to his foolishness.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

Gee, Scope on one side and you on the other.

Tbone (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 9:53PM EST (link)

How’s that for a life saver? LOL

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 
 

Never lower than a buck forty plus sparky.

Tbone (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 9:48PM EST (link)

Now run along before I rinse and spit you out.

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Palin owes McCain EVERYTHING.

Third Street (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 1:17AM EST (link)

This argument is really, really strained and has no factual basis. Palin would have become a conservative superstar anyway? Really? How? When? Exactly what would have triggered her meteoric rise, if not being tapped as the nominee for Vice President of the United States? ‘Cause before last August, nobody outside of Alaska had ever heard of her and I can’t imagine what else could have been the catalyst for her explosion onto the national scene.

John McCain may not be a conservative, and he may be a venal, backstabbing son of a bitch, but he put this woman where she is today. That’s a fact. He gambled on a no-name governor of a tiny state with a paper-thin resume as his running mate. He gave her the national spotlight, and the rest has been history. The woman is cashing in big-time with a bestselling book and stands to clean up on the lecture circuit for years to come. She’s using her muscle and clout to campaign for candidates for office; it’s widely believed she’ll do this on a nationwide scale in ’10, but I’m supposed to respect her if she leaves in the cold the guy who made her possible in the first place?

Sarah Palin is really in a no-win situation here… if her benefactor needs help in his renomination, and she ignores him, she appears disloyal. If she goes to his aid, she blows her reputation as the Great White Conservative Hope. Palin had better hope that Hayworth doesn’t run at all.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we hitch our wagon to unpredictable personality cults.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

I agree. Palin owes McCain everything: INCLUDING ALL THE ATTACKS AND SLIMES.

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 2:28AM EST (link)

In the end, the “negatives” balance the “positive”.

Net benefits of a VP Pick: Zero. Zilch. Nada.

So, I won’t be disappointed if Palin supports the “other guy” (a conservative one) instead of McCain.

You betcha!

I won't respect her if she supports Hayworth.

Third Street (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 4:25AM EST (link)

If Sarah Palin truly is to be an icon of conservatism, she may find herself in a position in which she very conspicuously has to demonstrate two key values of conservatism: Honor and Loyalty.

It doesn’t matter what McCain is or what he and his apparatchiks did to her. The fact remains that Palin was extended an extraordinary opportunity, she took it, and it launched her political career into orbit. For her not to reciprocate, and help McCain if he needs it, would appear ungrateful and petty, and unbecoming of the kind of leader Palin is being made out to be and that America very desperately needs.

And I’d love to see McCain primaried right out of office as much as anyone.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Honor and Loyalty? to McCain?....seriously?....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 8:24AM EST (link)

the guy LOST an election because he REFUSED to FIGHT! He is so go along to get along its amazing he can stand straight! IF she chose to back the Conservative in a race against McCain I would APPLAUD her and THANK HER!

OBTW how does the honor and loyalty work in DC? oh yeah it doesn’t just ask President Bush and all those peons who worked around him and wrote books and leaked secrets….I MOCK honor & loyalty when placed in the context of politicians because WE know it only extends to as far as the next interview with the leftist media!

GO KICK SOME A$$ that is what my advice to Sarah is and remember this the LEFTIST media is NOT your friend and ANYONE calling themselves a “maverick” “compassionate conservative” etc are really just PROGRESSIVES with “conservative” leanings!

 

That's how we got Specter, not Toomey

wennejunk (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 5:12PM EST (link)

Because the GOP closed ranks behind Specter (the loyal thing) and a REAL Conservative, Rick Santorum did the loyal thing vs. the right thing, we ended up with Specter (the defector) again.

How’d that work out for us?

Partly due to his support for Specter, Santorum went down against Casey in 2006, losing the support of Conservative voters.

How’s that loss working out for us?

Should Palin throw her support to McCain (assuming Hayworth runs), her influence in Conservative circles will be diminished.

McCain will win reelection and continue, at will and whim, to stab us in the back to keep himself in office and in the media spotlight.

How’re those things gonna work out for us?

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis

Once again...

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 7:17PM EST (link)

McCain doesn’t NEED any help to beat Hayworth. JD will provide all the help McCain needs as soon as he opens his mouth.

 
 
 
 

"nobody outside Alaska had heard of her".....WRONG....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 8:35AM EST (link)

There were ALOT of us who had heard of her and known of her taking on the CORRUPTION in AK! There were ALOT of us who heard her speeches on energy independence! I am sure you believe in your head that if you didn’t hear of her well no one did BUT you are so WRONG and she was a RISING star in the GOP which btw is how McCain heard of her in the 1st place! sometimes you must get outside of your own EGO and recognize you don’t know EVERYTHING!

 

Third Street- Key Values of conservatism: Honor and Loyalty

Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 10:52AM EST (link)

means you Honor and are Loyal to conservative principles, not to a person, or the good ole boys in Washington, especially one who claimed to be a proud Liberal, I I I mean Conservative. One, that has displayed no leadership at all in allowing/promoting the destruction of the person he obviously was forced to name as his VP running mate. He couldn’t even run a half decent campaign, yet he wanted to run the country. Oh he’s been quiet lately, except for his Afghan War statements, but, if elected Senator again, will not just reach his hand across the aisle, but, will actually sit there with the Dems. He stands for everything Palin stands against. If Palin backed McCain, she would do nothing to help him win, she would only help herself lose support. If you’ve been watching lately, the McCain types are in as much trouble with the American population as the Liberals. That movement started in 2006, continued in 2008, and is now at fever pitch. The majority want bold differences, conservative positions and have told the squishy moderates, like you, to take a hike.

You say Palin was a little known nothing before being tapped by the McCain campaign. You are wrong. She was on Fox a few times talking as an expert on energy independence. I was very impressed, as many others were. She had the highest favoribility ratings of any Governor at the time she was choosen. She may have not gotten her name as well known as quickly without the VP run, but, on the other hand, Palin would still have come on the scene successfully for pushing conservative principles and values, at a time when the Americans are yearning for those ideas. She may have had even more popularity now, without the false bad baggage she picked up in the McCain campaign, and with the rabidly savaging MSM.

You call her the Great White Conservative Hope mockingly, and advise to stay away from “unpredictable personality cults”. While I don’t agree with her approval/success as being a “cult”, I could also advise staying away from the Great White Wimpy Wales in Washington, and, that’s something a whole lot more people are already running from, and so should Palin.

 
 

Actually, I'd been familiar with her since she became governor...

Third Street (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 10:26AM EST (link)

…as I’m sure a lot of people here were, but then we all follow politics closely. To about 99% of everyone in the Lower 48 she was totally unknown. (I hadn’t even been sure how her last name was pronounced until the VP pick.)

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

oops

Third Street (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 10:27AM EST (link)

(meant this as a response to Jaded above.)

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Third Street- Stop before you dig yourself deeper into stupidity

Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 7:57PM EST (link)

if you could not pronounce Pa lin, you don’t derserve to comment on her. Wow, you put a whole new meaning on the word. Go back to your village, they probably understand you there, and would give you a nice little pat on the head.

 

Third Street- Stop before you dig yourself deeper into stupidity

Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 7:57PM EST (link)

if you could not pronounce Pa lin, you don’t derserve to comment on her. Wow, you put a whole new meaning on the word. Go back to your village, they probably understand you there, and would give you a nice little pat on the head.

That's nice.

Third Street (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 10:11PM EST (link)

Keep on talking. The Palinistas, by their responses, convince me more every day that this woman is the mirror image of Obama and not fit for office.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Ah,yes. Another phony conservative

hbgconservative Sunday, November 22nd at 12:39AM EST (link)

If you think she’s anything like Obama, you have zero business talking about her. The alone person who looks foolish her is you.

Oops, spelling error

hbgconservative Sunday, November 22nd at 12:55AM EST (link)

I meant foolish here.

 

Politically, yes; I think the Palin Phenomenon very much mirrors the Cult of Obama.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 1:10AM EST (link)

Sometimes I wonder at exactly what point being a fan of Mrs. Suddenly Last Summer became the ultimate litmus test of conservatism. (I haven’t bought her book yet, either. Another blow to my bona fides!)

What I see in Sarah Palin is somebody with the potential to split the party in ways even John McQueeg couldn’t do. A political movement that is centered around a personality rather than ideas is something pretty far removed from what I always understood conservatism to be, and as appealing as Palin is personally (and there can be no denying she has extraordinary personal appeal), you don’t have to scratch very far beneath that to find a flaky, half-term former governor of little accomplishment, lots of personal drama, questionable ethics, and a willingness to cut and run the moment she gets into trouble, or figures out there’s more money in book sales.

The Left absolutely hates her, sure; and it’s tempting to rush to her defense on that basis alone, and indeed I myself did that up until July 3rd of this year, the day that she trotted up to a microphone and gave a rambling, bizarre announcement that she wasn’t going to bother either standing up for herself or finishing her job. I got off the Palin Train then, and I think a lot of other conservatives did too.

We can do a lot better than this in 2012, and I don’t mean with moderate/liberal candidates. The conservative movement did not begin or end with Palin. My concern is that Sarahpalooza will have become so entrenched among so much of the base by then that we won’t be willing to consider better alternatives, and that half the party will sit out the election if she doesn’t get the nomination, or even if she doesn’t run at all.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

She, like Comrade Obama, is mostly a figment of her supporters' imagination.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 1:49AM EST (link)

The only thing most any of them know about her is her press releases and the stuff they’ve fantacized about her. In recent threads here we’ve had all sorts of reports of her expertise on FOX etc. about energy, but I think the only thing like that she ever did was on C-Span. Nobody had ever really heard of her except that guy in CO who was touting her.

I’ll guarantee you that not one of the Palin sycophants on here could lay out any of her legislative proposals, explain any of her budgets, define ACES or AGIA without looking them up. Yet, they all beleive she is the way, the truth, and the light.

In Vino Veritas

I'll say one thing, she definitely knows how to tell people what they want to hear.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:38AM EST (link)

How much of it is genuine… well, who knows. But hey, it all sounds really really good and some conservatives are so starved for leadership they’ll gamble on damn near anyone.

Art, your perspective on her has been invaluable.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

OK now I get it Third Street

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 8:19AM EST (link)

Achance makes the bullets, and you fire them. Problem is you are using the wrong weapon, and your target practice needs some work.

Anyone here with a favorable opinion of Palin or anything about Palin must be marginalized. You have all your names, tags, barbs, and blasts, but, what you have missed is the fact that many here haven’t yet gotten on that bandwagon of what you call “cultists.” Most want to give her the benefit of the doubt, watch what she does over the next few years, see if she can accomplish successes for good candidates and see what plans and platforms she adheres too. They do the research, watch, and have wait and see attitudes. You are very busy calling names and blasting those that have choosen not to just listen to one persons perspectives. As much as I have grown to like Achance, and respect him for his knowledge and experience, I would be a “cultist” of the opposite opder, were I too just suck up all of his opinions, and then just belch them out.

Since some of the "guys" (4) around here are co-opting...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 9:25AM EST (link)

Achance’s words here is a question for Achance…

How in the hell in Sarah Palin get poll numbers in the 70′s if she was such a horrible Governor? I would think based off your comments the woman would have had Deval Patrick numbers or or Patterson of NY’s numbers. IF and lets be clear here ALL we have is Achance and we know he lost his job when she came in to go by does that make the 70+% of those who gave her high marks in her state wrong and Achance who again lets be clear LOST A JOB correct!

OBTW you losers who continue to talk about emotion I would suggest you hit a mirror because the emotion which with you HATE her is much more excessive then any emotion those of us who like her show. Sarah Palin is going to be a force in the party and if you all don’t like it well that is too damn bad because as NY-23 PROVED a stamp of approval from Sarah bring the money and MONEY is what sells campaigns!

A big ole 5 Jaded. Spot on. nt.

Danielle Davis (ocleverone) (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 9:35AM EST (link)

To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher

 

What may solve the Achance and Palin argument

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 10:33AM EST (link)

would be for Palin to come here and debate Achance, offering her opinions and knowledge of what happened in Alaska to make Achance so anti-Palin. Of course that won’t happen, but, then we all would have a two sided debate, rather than one person’s opinions. At this point, it is very one sided and quite unfair.

Someone here had pointed out that Achance speaks about the people of Wassilla as all being nothing more than village idiots. Everyone in Wassilla Achance? Again, we have no one here from Wassilla to counter the comments, it is as much of a generalization as saying that all Muslims are terriorists. It’s very easy to say what you will when you are the only one doing the talking.

I give Achance alot of credit for his knowledge of how politics works in Alaska, but, I’m sure there are others who have been in politics/government for many years that would have a very different outlook, they just don’t post here.

What will "solve" this is the '12 election.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 10:40AM EST (link)

Since it’s obvious that you do not have to have either experience or accomplishments to be President the ’12 primary should be interesting.

yes becker, Obama has neither

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 11:31AM EST (link)

n/t

And, just to throw gasoline on the fire...

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 1:19PM EST (link)

Sarah has more “experience” than either Obama or McCain had and zero in terms of actual accomplishments or real governing experience. And the second things got rough she bailed.

becker- That is your opinion

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:30PM EST (link)

which you are as entitled to as much as those that don’t see these things the way you do. Your entire view of anything Palin is seen through Achances eyes. I don’t remember seeing you post any original facts or personal knowledge of Palin activities while serving as Governor in Alaska, on the contrary, you preach the same things that Achance has said previously. If I am not mistaken, you live in Arizona, and have only Achances comments to go by as far as Alaska politics, Palin and anything else Alaskan. It is more than admirable to be loyal to someone you consider your friend, and to respect their opinions, but, to buy their every word is to be sheep like. Between the both of you, it’s like a scratched record, it keeps stopping at the same old scratches every time, and singing the same old lines over and over. I do like reading what you both have to say, except for the tired Palin comments.

If you know of any accomplishments

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:45PM EST (link)

please write a diary.

I write about things I know something about or can research.

1. Sarah is no fiscal conservative. Look at her budgets.
2. The gas pipeline is vaporware. Great show, big bucks to a Canadian company and going nowhere.
3. Other than knifing Republicans she did what as governor?
4. The Yahoo emails are serious stuff. In any regulated company I’ve ever worked for or run that would get you fired in a nano-second.

None of the above are my “opinion”, they are facts. Google is your friend. I know nothing about the “inside politics” that Art notes and don’t comment on it.

Again, if you’ve got some of those fact thingys that nobody including Josh Painter (who worked for her when he posted here) or Gary (who got zapped for copying her press releases) could never come up with related to an actual accomplishment, please write a diary.

I may be a scratchy old fart (and I’ll freely admit to that), but I’m not standing by while people post ‘bot posts about anybody. Right now Sarah seems to be the ‘bot choice d’joure. My comments about Sarah have nothing to do with Art. They have to do with my aversion to reading bull s**t posted at Redstate.

Palin Has Accomplished Plenty

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:26PM EST (link)

But the fact is that the work of all politicians is overated, especially Congressmen. The only time a Senator ever works hard is when they are on the campaign trail. All they do is sit around in committees and pow wow. And that is true for everyone from John McCain to Fred Thompson, who has more than his fair share of bots.

So what did they do? Sat around in some committee ironing out legislation. Big whoop. I am far more impressed with her being plucked out of Alaska, where she was focused on state issues, and thrown into the limelight under the most stressful circumstances and thrived. An accomplishment? How about receiving a crash course on foreign affairs and national issues beyond her purview as governor, going to- to toe with a veteran debater well versed on foreign policy and national issues and winning. That is a hell of an accomplishment in my book, much more than haveing your legislative aides co-author some amendment to some piece of legislation. She has been tested like no other.prospective 2012 candidate. None. She has shown resilience, toughness, saavy and intelligence under the most intense media fire.

Her resignation proved to be the smart move for her. Alaska and the conservative movement, as even Rush has acknowledged.

They all look bad under the microscope. No one looks good up close. They are all flawed humans. Your guy Rudy may have the most warts of all. Theree are a thousand achances in NYC political circles who could make Rudy look like crooked buffoon too. The same was true for them all. They all have enemies. They all compromise. They all make mistakes.

But this is bigger than retail politics.

But dont take my word, just watch the news. She runs this town.

One significant executive accomplishment

aesthete (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:45PM EST (link)

That’s all that I ask of those who wish to foist Sarah onto the highest executive office in the land! If she doesn’t plan on running for anything executive (which if she’s smart, she won’t), this doesn’t matter, but the fact that some people are recommending this woman for our highest executive office based on no actual accomplishments is surprising, to say the least! I respect you, Swamp, but good God, counting her actions on the campaign trail as a pro is almost as bad as when Obama’s people counted Obama’s running of his campaign as “executive experience”! Besides that, if we’re going to go with that as basis for her to be the 2012 frontrunner, or the gatekeeper to conservatism, shouldn’t we also take all of the statements that she made on the campaign trail into account as well, including those where she echoes her moderate running mate’s positions verbatim?

As to Rudy, Pawlenty, et. al, of course they all have flaws. They’re politicians, for crying out loud! However, it must be stated that a) supporters of Sarah Palin can’t outline specific accomplishments on her part, while her detractors can find specific points where she messed up, and b) there is nowhere near the level of fanatical support for other candidates as there is for Palin. She can get on the news; that’s great. Let her remain in her role as political celebrity, and have someone serious run for president, with real accomplishments that can be pointed to.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

We Must Defend Palin

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:16PM EST (link)

Your problem with Sarah seems to be that she was elected Governor in 2006 and was on the campaing trail in 2008. Its a liberal agrument that she had no experience. Perhaps it had, past tense, validity. What do you expect in one and a half years. From what I’ve read and am still researching, she did quite a bit for a little more than one year. (A lot more than Obama did in the same time, but that’s a very low bar, I know).

That type of questioning – name accomplishments – though is best reserved for unknowns. Its the right question, if say, Mitch Daniels decided to run. Or Mike Pence. Or John Thune. But Sarah is a known quantity. How she conducted herself on some smallball state issue matters less to me than her fight and success fighting PelosiCare.

But all that is beside the point.

She is extremely important. Ridiculously important. I’ve written many times that her importance transcends poltiics. She is the most important weapon we have to crush identity politics and the Left’s stranglehold on victimology. That’s why they fear her, not for 2012. But because she may be the next Oprah. That she has the imagination of millions of young girls and women. She can destroy post-modern feminsim. She can break the angry white male protestant versus all the victims dichotomy that the Left cultivates because it is a surefire electoral winner for them . She can re-assert frontier self-reliance and bring back a respect for rugged individualism.

Its a cultural and psychological war. We cannot tear down out greatest asset in that war.

Interesting, Swamp

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:25PM EST (link)

I had been seeing Palin as a political force. But in all honesty, you put your finger on something important. Call it identify politics, but…she is a heck of a role model. Just as BHO was one, although he is more a characterature. In realty, BHO is an elitist snob who is cashing in on his tan. Palin does represent family values.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

She's a known quantity

aesthete (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:26PM EST (link)

as a political celebrity and as an orator — and in those areas, she has proven her worth and I’ll defend her current actions in those capacities. She’s not, however, so well-defined as an executive, and given that the presidency is an executive position, I think that asking what executive achievements she’s had is a fair question.

In short, I appreciate her status as a symbol and a political celebrity, but those are issues completely and entirely separate from her executive experience and conservative bonafides, and i refuse to embellish those attributes for the sake of preserving her as a standard bearer.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 

aesthete- You are falling into a trap

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:26PM EST (link)

Speaking for myself, I have said many times that I am not a Palinbot, Palin cultist, or have jumped on her bandwagon. I wish to make up my own mind about Palin with her actions over the next few years. She may bomb out completely. The point of my posts here have been to say that the anti-Palin comments by a few, over and over again seem to be a movement to control the Palin message, or to be more precise, to disuade anyone from even remotely liking her for whatever reason. I for one don’t want to be propagandized by some who have less than favorable opinions and ideas of her. And, when there are any positive posts about her, they are immediately sent to the woodshed. Please do not look at me as a rabid Palin supporter. I believe that I saw some posts by Jaded in the past that were of similar thought. Achance is the only one here from Alaska, with any knowledge of local politics. I cannot accept only one opinion, and especially when that one’s posts are mostly hateful.

Didn't call anyone out

aesthete (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:37PM EST (link)

But it must be acknowledged that there are Palinistas. I agree, there is always more than one side — and oftentimes, many more than two. So far, though, the difference in between the Palinistas and non- have been as follows:

1) The Palinistas on RS are typically out-of-staters who started following Palin after her impressive initial performance in her VP acceptance speech. The Anti- ‘s, OTOH, have been locals who have knowledge of her governorship, and the context surrounding her decisions.

2) The Anti- ‘s have specific policies, appointments, and personnel that they can point to to back up their case. Palinistas have consistently failed to make even the most cursory of fact-checks in their rush to defend Palin’s tenure as AK’s Gov.

If a Palinista can make a solid case for Palin as a good executive based on her record, I’m all ears, but considering that no one has been able to thus far, and in light of Palin’s inauspicious resignation, I doubt that such a case will never be made.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

Typo

aesthete (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:38PM EST (link)

“Doubt that such a case will ever be made” for the last line.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 
 
 

If Palin truly "ran" this town, we'd be talking about Congressman Doug Hoffman right now.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:46PM EST (link)

And no, they don’t all look bad under a microscope. Ronald Reagan, for one, looked pretty damned good under a microscope. And he is the figure Sarah Palin has so often been compared to, is he not?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

There you go with the NY 23 thing again. nt

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:49PM EST (link)

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

hey Vegas, i think we got a concern troll here

pilgrim (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:58PM EST (link)

I notice third street overlooks how perhaps Sen. Saxby Chambliss might think about Sarah Palin.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Yep, just like those with BDS,

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:01PM EST (link)

those with PDS, have latched onto their “facts” and opinions.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 
 

Dont Practice Idolotry

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:57PM EST (link)

I’ll speak blasphemy here. Shhhh. But actually read all the books about Reagan. Yes, he had warts. I know. I know. Strike me down. Even William Buckley in his book on Reagan said some less than flattering things. There were many credible insiders who remarked on his flaws. I dont practice idolotry whether it be Palin or Reagan.

All I said is that she has accomplishments, she is a a great asset and a possible candidate for 2012. I never said she was magic. Sarah Palin endorsed somebody. The same person that Fred Thompson and a host of leading conservatives endorsed. They are not magic either.

Cutting down Reagan, however gently, is the logical next step of Palin's supporters...

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:14PM EST (link)

…because, having tied her so closely over the last year to Reagan — a man of accomplishment, perseverance, party loyalty, and intellectual depth — the only possible response when a point-by-point comparison of the two is made is to try to say that ehh, Reagan really wasn’t that great. He had all kinds of problems. He really wasn’t as wonderful as we all thought he was, so is it really fair to compare Sarah Palin — the lady we’ve all been swearing up and down to be the next Ronald Reagan — to Ronald Reagan?

And of course Reagan wasn’t perfect. Did I say he was?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Your A Little Off

Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:21PM EST (link)

By the way, it was Reagan’s own conservative son that first made the comparison between Palin and Reagan. Go google – Reagan and Dad is that you.

Whose campaign do you work for anyway. Huck, Mitt, TPaw???

 

OK, now I call troll.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:25PM EST (link)

or blithering idiot. Take your pick.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Why? 'Cause that's EXACTLY what a lot of Republicans did during the amnesty battle.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:36PM EST (link)

“Well, you see, we all love Reagan, but we have to remember that he granted illegals amnesty in ’86.” I heard it over and over again from pro-amnesty Republicans (and there were a lot more of them than you might remember), without putting into context Reagan’s larger goal of stopping illegal immigration and the Congress’ subsequent failure to hold up its end of the bargain: enforcement.

See, with Reagan as the Gold Standard of conservatism (justifiably), it becomes necessary for Republicans with differing agendas to take him down a notch or two when his legacy stands in their way. Sarah Palin has been touted by our side, over and over again, as the next Ronald Reagan. When it can be demonstrated that she is not Ronald Reagan — that, in fact, she suffers from very serious political deficiencies whose revelations impede the goal of those pushing her for President — the only recourse will be to knock Ronald Reagan down to her level so that the comparison can be maintained on the surface.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Third Street- Who in the

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:05PM EST (link)

he!! are you talking about. “Many on our side have compared her to Reagan.” Who on Redstate has compared her to Reagan? Palin talks about Reagan quite a bit as her hero and someone she admires and respects. If she said she admired Mao and Mother Teresa, she would be the second coming of Obama according to the MSM, and wouldn’t even have to mount a campaign for 2012, she would fall right off the turnip cart, and into the WH. Can you not get any deeper in your thinking than the surface?

You've got to be kidding me.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:18PM EST (link)

Seriously, Scope?

Seriously?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Palin was elected

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:49PM EST (link)

as a City Council member twice, she was elected mayor of Wasilla, she was appointed to an Alaskan oil board (don’t remember the name of it), and she was elected Governor of Alaska. Obviously as she moved through the ranks, someone had confidence in her abilities to move up to higher slots with more responsibility. When she was selected as the VP candidate, she had approval ratings in Alaska which I believe were the highest of all Governors at the time. Of course, Obama’s thousand man march on Alaska took care of her approval ratings.

As to her increasing the Alaska budget, I have not looked at any of them for any years however, Achance incites looks into her 2009/2010 budget, and says she ran out of the Governorship when the times got tough. I do not know what increases were in the budget, but, I don’t think it would be unfair to say that every state budget increased over the last few years. If I am not mistaken, Achance says that many in Alaska are union employees. Bingo. Negotiated union contracts can get you every time. Higher medical insurance benefits, higher pension costs, higher wages etc. Achance can surely speak to that. Federal Government mandates such as increased Federal unemployment costs to the states. Higher mandated Medicaid costs. Thankfully Achance says there are not many illegals in Alaska as their school, hospital and social service costs wouyld have necessarily skyrocketed. Oh, and those oil tax revenues that came down because of the lower cost of a barrell of oil will shut those checks down to the residents every time. Again, I have not seen the new budgets that have gotten Palin in trouble, but if she did that badly, then the states that are near to bankrupt should be used to compare and contrast. I could be very wrong about my thoughts on why a budget would increase, but I don’t think I can be completely wrong. That is unless Alaska is not beholden to the Federal government of the US. BTW, isn’t it the goal of the national republican committees to support those that have a proven ability to win. Huhh, I think Palin would fit that description.

Sigh. nt

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:00PM EST (link)

LOL

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:19PM EST (link)

Beck, just get used to it. From where I sit the idea that she’s going to run is more and more likely. Call it my women’s intuition. The PR blitz is getting tiresome already and I honestly do not have anything against the woman. I remain a spectator like most here. I can’t say I’m not a bit entertained by all the brouhaha surrounding her personna. I’m uncomfortable with the rah rah aspect. But she’s here and as someone just said elsewhere, you can’t put the toothpaste back into the tube.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

yes becker, Obama has neither

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 11:31AM EST (link)

n/t

Actually, by '12 we won't be able to say that, either...

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:50PM EST (link)

…because by then Obama will have been President for nearly four years and will have racked up a very definite list of “accomplishments”, loathsome though they may be. The “experience” charge will be off the table for Republicans.

Sarah Palin, on the other hand, will still have a resume that ends with “half-term governor and best-selling author”. I suppose she could try to primary Don Young for his congressional seat next year, since he’s one of those “corrupt good ol’ boys” she made a career out of taking down (and he is a big-time porker, no doubt about it). After all, she helped Ted Stevens lose his Senate seat, and isn’t it wonderful that particular corrupt good ol’ boy is no longer around to provide a 41st vote to filibuster ObamaCare?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 

And I've made that point over and over.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:34PM EST (link)

And frankly, we’ve criticized the Dems so much – and rightfully so – over the last two years for putting up the poster boy for identity politics I really would hate to see us put up the poster girl for identity politics.

She is nothing more than the female version of Obama. And, third street is right, in ’12 Obama will have lots of experience. All bad, but experience none the less.

 
 
 

Actually, Scope, I've never had a substantive reply

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 12:42PM EST (link)

about any criticisms of Her. Nobody has ever come here and said, no, this is where she cut the budget, or here is what is good about ACES or AGIA, or this is why she really did need legal counsel and to spend all that money on the ethics charges. They just come here yelling platitudes that come from her press releases and screaming about how she’s the great conservative hope. ‘Course, they can’t tell you anything about her actual campaigning and governing here that makes her a conservative at all, much less the great conservative hope.

As to Wasilla, it is what it is and there’s not much disagreement here about what it is. First and foremost, it is the commercial hub of the Matanuska-Susitna Valley, having supplanted the old town of Palmer in that role after the Parks Hwy. from ANC to FAI was completed in the ’70s. Until the Parks was completed when you got past Palmer, you were in true wilderness interupted only by a few small towns on the Alaska Railroad and the very limited facilities at Mt. McKinley National Park. The Mat Valley in those days was the province of hippies and survivalists, including a bunch of transplanted Texas militia-types that N.B. Hunt helped get here when Kennedy ran them to ground, who uneasily co-existed with the business people and farmers of Palmer. The Mat Valley became and remains the pot growing center of Alaska and Matanuska Thunder#$%^ ranks right up there with Maui Wowie as a connoiseur’s marajuana choice. Since it is so remote and has so little law enforcement, it has also become a meth cooking center over the years. Wasilla and Palmer have small police forces but the rest of The Valley is covered by the Alaska State Troopers. I doubt there are ever more than a half dozen Troopers on duty patroling and carrying out other law enforcement actions in an area bigger than all but a handful of the states of the Lower 48. The Valley is in the main quite literally lawless and only the fact that everybody is armed keeps it relatively quiet. The most powerful political dynamic in recent years, and Palin typifies it, is the fact that the Mat Valley and specifically Wasilla has become the bedroom community for North Slope oil workers. After Alaska did away with its income tax, they began to move here rather than commute from TX, LA, or OK and as the road out of Anchorage improved, one could live in low-tax, no-law Wasilla or The Valley and still have ANC’s amenities to keep mama happy. Politically, it is the Libertarians’ dream and the air resonates with the sound of black helicopters.

I actually think that most of her most ardent supporters support her because she’s pro-life and saw Trig to term. It is one of the bedeviling things about so many that are pro-life that they don’t care what the person’s other positions and actions have been so long as they are pro-life, see, e. g., Huckabee. I’m more or less pro-life, but I really do want to know something else about a candidate other than their position on something that an executive actually has little influence on.

In Vino Veritas

Thank you Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:22PM EST (link)

for your informative reply here, and also below. As I’ve said, I respect your experience and knowledge, and enjoy when you are writting about anything other than Palin. I loved reading your history of the Wassilla area, it sounds frightful to one more accustomed to modern things like electricity, indoor plumbing and all those things we couldn’t live without, or think we can’t because most haven’t gone through survival training. Still though, I think to generalize every resident of any area as not having more than 2 functioning brain cells is unfair, and inaccurate. I’d like to think that every resident living in Newark NJ couldn’t strike a match and start a fire, but, that would be equally unfair, and not accurate. That was my point about disqualifying anyone from Wassilla as having not gotten out of the cave man era.

Please do not think I am saying that you are wrong on anything you have posted as to Alaskan politics/government. What I have said is that that is how you perceive things, based on your own personal experiences. Until they start cloning people, God forbid, everyone comes to the table with their own tastes, temprements, traditions, upbringing, education and etc. You have formed your opinions, and have expressed them here as only Achance could. All those Chicagoans, now in the Obama administration, have come from a lifetime in Chicago politics, and there is no doubt many believe that they are right and righeous. Don’t you think that Van Jones thinks he is brilliant, or Anita Dunn, or to a lesser extreme Sebelius? I am not comparing you to the marxists, but just making a point of differences. That is why I said, if Palin came here, and got into a debate with you, and you both through your minds eye out there, one could read, and then come to their own conclusions. I am not taking anything away from you Achance, I am simply saying that we have your take on things, the opinion parts, but, no words from the one on the other side of the debate. The ones I do have a problem with are the ones that have just choosen to parrot your thoughts and comments about Palin, those I now think of as Achanceistas.

By the Way Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:27PM EST (link)

I have stated all along that I am not sold on Palin for 2012, or for any other elected office. I want to see more of her, hear more of what she has to say and how she says it, and see what she accomplishes with promoting good candidates, and just how much of a force she becomes. It is when you listen to anti-Palin everything, every day, you tend to go to bat for who is being made into underdog.

 

By the Way Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:27PM EST (link)

I have stated all along that I am not sold on Palin for 2012, or for any other elected office. I want to see more of her, hear more of what she has to say and how she says it, and see what she accomplishes with promoting good candidates, and just how much of a force she becomes. It is when you listen to anti-Palin everything, every day, you tend to go to bat for who is being made into underdog.

 

Oh spare me the backhanded snark.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:38PM EST (link)

She wouldn’t respond substantively any more than you or jaded will. She’s a victim, always and you two are always defenders of the poor little victim. Now I’m tired of both of you.

In Vino Veritas

Again Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:11PM EST (link)

That is your opinion. Somehow I have every reason to believe that it would be a substantive debate. If nothing else, she has guts, as you’ve said yourself. Her guts just didn’t agree with yours. I think the lipstick would be off the pitbull in that debate. There’s another image for you guys.

I can't tell you how much I'd enjoy that debate.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:35PM EST (link)

She, nor one of hers, would ever in a million years do it,though.

In Vino Veritas

 
 

Again Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:11PM EST (link)

That is your opinion. Somehow I have every reason to believe that it would be a substantive debate. If nothing else, she has guts, as you’ve said yourself. Her guts just didn’t agree with yours. I think the lipstick would be off the pitbull in that debate. There’s another image for you guys.

BTW Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:14PM EST (link)

you’ve said that you are tired of Jaded and I. Does that mean that you subscribe to the notion that “it’s my way, or the highway.”? Isn’t that what the current Marxist regime is telling all us unwashed?

 

BTW Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:14PM EST (link)

you’ve said that you are tired of Jaded and I. Does that mean that you subscribe to the notion that “it’s my way, or the highway.”? Isn’t that what the current Marxist regime is telling all us unwashed?

 
 
 
 
 
 

You get really high poll numbers when your state is rolling in money

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 12:02PM EST (link)

for the first time in over twenty years and you can give it away. Somewhere on this computer I have a memo I wrote to Murkowski and Clark in late ’05 about the ferry system negotiations that had been bedeviling us for over a year. I closed it with something along the lines of, “Oil is $50 a barrel; let’s throw some money around and get off the front page.” Until then, I’d spent my whole State career with oil at twenty and change or less except for a couple of geopolitical spikes. Her first two years were marked by stratospheric oil prices and she steamrolled a Legislature cowed by the FBI’s corruption probe into passing the windfall profits tax, ACES, thus producing revenue unheard of in Alaska even back in the Blue-eyed Arab days of the early ’80s, at least in nominal dollars. ‘Course, the oil industry has practically packed up and left Alaska because of it, but it was great for Sarah.

I love to hear her admirers carry on about what a budget cutter she was; no other governor of Alaska had ever had or spent the kind of money she was spending; go look at the State budgets, they’re online. Her “budget cuts” were line item vetos of specific items that enabled her to showboat and to punish legislators with whom she’d had disagreements, e.g., Sen. Stedman of Sitka who took the brunt of it and Southeast Alaska generally where she never had much support.

Some of you will recall that I said a long time ago that ’10 would be a tough year for her. Well, turned out that State fiscal year ’10 is what did it Last legislative session in which the SFY 10 budget was done was the first time she’d actually had to govern at all and it was no fun for her. As the prices and revenue started to fall in the fall of ’08, the Administration refused to come to grips with it because it would have meant saying no to someone. They pitched a Governor’s Budget Request over to the Legislature in Dec. ’08 based on totally unrealistic revenue projections. If she was even cognizant of what her ‘crats had done, not really a certainty, she had put the smelling thing in the pockets of a dramatically changed Legislature.

She had governed largely with the Democrats and a minority of the Republicans. She was so divisive, that for the first time since the early ’80s, Democrats had power in the Senate as it was governed by a coalition of Democrats and Republicans that would work with Palin – somewhat. Two of those Democrats that realized unheard of power were Kim Elton, now working for Obama, and Hollis French, now running for Governor, both of whom, you might recall, ran a little investigation of their benefactor, Gov. Palin. Since the Democrats largely would no longer work with her, she had to go drink from the well she’d peed in on the Republican side.

There ensued a nasty game of “Who’s going to cut the budget” between her and the Legislature and the Legislature called her, principally Rep. Hawker who very publicly rejected her revenue projections and the budget based on them. That resonated and forced her to do a revised revenue estimate. Governing wasn’t fun anymore and she didn’t do much of it. She’d already chewed up several COS, Leg Liasons, and Com Directors and fundamentally the Governor’s Office was AWOL at the Legislature and being run on a day to day basis by a longtime holdover first appointed by the Democrats. The ’09 Legislative Session was the Winter of Sarah’s Discontent, no legislative agenda, no money to throw around, a Legislature not cowed by her any more, ongoing Ethics Act charges, and that glistening, glimmering book deal out there.

Except, Gov. “I cleaned it up” couldn’t take the multi-million dollar book deal and still be Governor both because the bloom was off her rose here, which was eroding her star power and because of her much touted ethics reform. So, Sarah did what Sarah has always done, looked out for Sarah. She quit that bothersome old Governor’s job and cashed in on the millions in a deal specifically structured to avoid reporting it under that pesky old Ethics Act.

I’m about half way through slogging through “The Book.” Let’s just say I don’t remember some of it the same way. And it is the same old Sarah. The lovely and virtuous St. Sarah’s crusade against evil doers; everybody around her is grasping, self-serving, and corrupt and St. Sarah slays all the dragons and restores virtue to The World. Great Fairy Tale!

In Vino Veritas

So what you are really saying is she is a .....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 12:15PM EST (link)

POLITICIAN…oh my what is one to make of that? A politician in the political arena. I don’t see anyone around here saying she is a saint except you. If she were anything LESS then ruthless she would not last very long around the VIPERS that infested your state and every state now would she? So the bottom line is she is ready for primetime! I appreciate your answer and recognize your issue’s with her what I don’t appreciate is your sycophants jumping in and co-opting your anger towards her and stating them as a fact of knowledge of their own!

Yep, she's a politician.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 12:57PM EST (link)

That’s not the problem. The problem is that when the stuff hit the fan she chose to run off and hide on a national book tour instead of dealing the issues she was elected at the state level to deal with. It’s pretty much the same complaint I have with Romney, although he did have the good graces to complete his only term in office.

 

No, what I'm saying is she is ...

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 1:09PM EST (link)

not telling the truth and it has been her trademark in politics. That doesn’t make her just another politician. I won’t go so far as to call her a liar. A liar to me is someone who knows the truth and chooses to say something else. I really believe that she believes her fairy tales. I’ve known a lot of politicians and the ONLY one I’ve ever known that was more self-involved and narcisistic than Palin was former US Senator Mike Gravel.

I’ve always been a firm believer in dancin’ with who brung me; your word and trustworthyness are the only things of lasting value in politics. Sarah has been taken to the dance by a lot of political figures in Alaska and she has never left with who brung her; she even left the dance with the whole voting public of the State for the next glittering thing. She has turned on everyone who has ever supported her and has vilified most of them. If John McCain had won, it would have been the most miserable four years of his life as he spent every waking moment fearing and waiting for the knife in his ribs. He seems to have figured out what we who knew her here knew; Sarah is a real nice woman – till you get to know her!

In Vino Veritas

Who's the liar?

hbgconservative Sunday, November 22nd at 5:06PM EST (link)

The only one lying around you here is you. Pretending to be a conservative when it’s obvious you’re nothing but some jealous, petty RINO hack. But, like I’ve said before, keep going.

Another idiot. nt

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:24PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 

Sycophant here! Let me just say...

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:38PM EST (link)

…that if I really wanted to be a sycophant I could have clambered back aboard the Palin Train after her resignation and continued to parrot the prevailing view that she’s Jesus Christ with a sex change. It’s easy to do that; not so easy, in a climate in which her book has just come out and Palinmania is at a fever pitch, to come out and tell fellow conservatives that you simply do not believe or trust her. Few conservatives are willing to do so publicly, because who wants to get piled onto by the conventional wisdom? But people should say something before the Republican Party locks itself, over two years before the primaries, into support of a potential candidate who is a divisive, self-serving empty skirt.

The perspective of somebody who has seen and experienced Sarah Palin’s style and method of campaigning and governing first-hand, from the ground in Alaska, is indeed invaluable and that is why Art’s exposes are so vital. Because I’ve never been to Alaska. I don’t know anything about Alaskan politics. And it’s been telling that the people on RedState (not just Art) who have lived there and know what’s going on there have a very different story from the one that’s been sold to us over the last year and a half. Over a year ago, about a month before the election, I had been researching state legislatures and was trying to figure out the bizarre split among the Republican majority in the Alaska State Senate, with about three quarters of them forming a coalition with the Democrats and effectively handing Democrat Johnny Ellis control of the chamber. It was only recently, revisiting that research, that I realized that the forming of this coalition, which continued on after the ’08 elections, had coincided with the beginning of Palin’s term as governor, so I’ve not been surprised to hear from Art that Palin did indeed have something to do with the split. But then, Palin ran around in 2008 telling America she was a party-bucking “maverick” in the mold of John McCain, so what did I expect?

You are correct: Sarah Palin is indeed a politician, in that her actions appear to be opportunistic and self-serving, and that she will stab her benefactors in the back if it suits her. But we have many, many, many politicians devouring this country; it doesn’t mean that we should take the ones that look cute and sound good and make them automatic candidates for President. If my governor, Bobby Jindal, were to run for president in ’12, I’d have a number of things to say about him that would belie the portrait that has been painted of him over the last couple of years as another magnificent reform governor and Great White Conservative Hope who is the future leader of the party — like how he vacillated about, and nearly allowed to pass, the obscene legislative pay raise that scandalized the entire state and then tried to wash his hands of all responsibility for it; how he’s used taxpayer dollars for campaign junkets up to north Louisiana to shore up his support there in advance of the 2011 election; how his idea of “economic development” in this perpetually impoverished state is to bribe businesses into relocating here on the backs of even more taxpayer dollars; and his general disinterest in actually governing despite holding one of the most powerful governorships in America, and facing a looming budget shortfall that is the highest of any “red” state. (If it came down to a choice between the two I would still take Jindal over Palin, though, because he’s done more at a younger age and so far hasn’t abruptly quit his job.)

Yes, Sarah Palin is a politician, and it is always dangerous to put your full faith and trust in a politician — particularly one whose career began last weekend and whose star has been pushed into orbit on the basis of platitudes, personality, and sound bites. The Democrats have already done that. We can do better.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

at least you recognize what you are!...nt

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:46PM EST (link)

Uh huh. "nt", indeed. No response to anything I've said.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:57PM EST (link)

But then, identity politics rarely allows for substantive argument on the merits, Jaded, and you’ve long reflected that most loathsome trait of Sarahpalooza — the victim angle. Poor Little Sarah’s being piled onto by the “guys”. Come to think of it, that’s been one of the key planks of Palin’s ascendancy.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Never has been a substantive response.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:06PM EST (link)

Not even when “Gary” and “Josh Painter” were writing long paeans to her practically every day that were nothing more than recitations, often just copies, of her press releases. Nobody. Has. Ever even made an attempt at a substantive rebuttal of any criticism of Palin. You’re just a misogyinst, a frustrated job seeker, or one of the corrupt old boys she “cleaned up,” or, you just have your head up your a$$ if you don’t worship St. Sarah.

In Vino Veritas

Achance, a serious question.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:10PM EST (link)

Where would you recommend I go to research Sarah Palin’s records as Mayor, Oil Regulator, and Governor?

I’m not a Kool-Aid drinker, but I like her. I want to know the real deal. I know you think you’re fair and un biased, but this is too important for me to chance it. I want the facts.

any suggestions?

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Start with the State of Alaska website.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:23PM EST (link)

This is the link to the “Departments”: http://www.alaska.gov/akdir1.html

Go to The Department of Administration, Division of Finance and get the “Comprehensive Annual Financial Report.” Go to the Department of Revenue, Tax Division and get the Revenue Sources Book. They go back several years and will tell you what kinds of budgest and spending and taxation programs there were over the past few years including her three budgets.

The rest you’ll have to go to the Anchorage Daily News and other Alaska media archives. What you’ll find in the Anchorage Daily News is that they loved her when she was taking on Ruedrich and Murkowski and was every Democrat’s favorite Republican when it looked like she’d be the easiest one for Knowles to beat. Began to change their tune when the threat to Knowles turned credible but basically were positive towards her all during her first two years because she worked with the Democrats and had so divided the Republicans. Only when the Wooten thing began did they begin to turn on her and then turned vicious on her with the VP nod. So, you have to take the ADN with a grain of salt because they are so partisan, but they’re what passes for news here.

And, a lot of it is just inside baseball but you may make what you want of the fact that nobody shows up to offer any substantive rebuttal to my criticisms of her and it ain’t like there aren’t other Alaskans on here from time to time.

In Vino Veritas

Thanks, Art. nt

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:24PM EST (link)

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 
 

I actually gave a substantive response...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:27PM EST (link)

in a diary way back when however you did not like what I had to say then and you don’t like what ANYONE who has something positive to say about her EVER….so when it comes to you why should ANYONE waste their breath?….I as a Conservative Woman see wonderful things for Sarah Palin as well as Michelle Bachmann and many other Conservative women….WE ARE 51% of the vote…WE will be heard in future elections and Sarah is a FINE example of a leader for ALL in the Conservative Grassroots….

an oldie but a goodie

Identity politics is just as ugly on the right as on

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:51PM EST (link)

the left. But, I do like Bachman.

In Vino Veritas

So do I. She sticks around and fights back. (nt)

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:13PM EST (link)

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 

I don't think that liking Bachman

redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:50PM EST (link)

has anything to do with identity politics.I could see the connection with Palin as they are both women. But never have I seen that Bachman is perceived that way. Or am I missing something?


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 

wah, wah, wah...nt

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:17PM EST (link)

You're better than that Jaded.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:35PM EST (link)

Whether Art is right about Sarah is beside the point. Nobody hs offered a single argument on point of any criticism of Sarah.

1. She is not a fiscal conservative, at least based on her budgets as governor.
2. The gas pipeline is vaporware and only serves to enrich a Canadian company.
3. She ran out of Alaska at full speed when the going to tough. Her excuse for resigning was the weakest I’ve ever seen.
4. She has exactly no accomplishments as governor.
5. As governor she divided the Republicans to the point where she had to rely on Democrats to get a bill passed.
6. Despite her great personal pro-life creds, she never broached pro-life legislation as Governor even though it was on the table.

The fact is, she is a great campaigner if you need the base excited. She may be a good fundraiser but that still remains to be seen. What she isn’t is either experienced or accomplished.

and mbecker I think you all are...

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:48PM EST (link)

better then SLAMMING her EACH & EVERY time there is a diary about her…..I don’t get WHY other then when Art did a positive diary you all feel COMPELLED to destroy a diary with your negativism. I feel like I have to come in and tell those who have never been here OBTW Achance was FIRED by her administration so he has some extreme feelings about her AS anyone would who had lost a job. Is it REALLY necessary to SLAM her constantly? There are many who LOVE her so let them what sweat is that off of your brow?

You are a liar Jaded!

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:56PM EST (link)

I was long gone before she even won the primary. I had had it with what was left of the Murkowki Administration and was just doing time. When my boss decided to make one of my not very competent former subordinates my boss because he either was or wanted to sleep with her, I decided July 1, 2006, was a good day to retire.

In Vino Veritas

you are a LIAR Sarah Palin....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:02PM EST (link)

has NEVER slept with anyone other then her husband and if you can prove otherwise do so otherwise you are an OLD PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A MAN!

You can't read; that explains so much, Jaded.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:14PM EST (link)

Where did I say anything about St. Sarah sleeping with anybody? You have that on the brain, silly woman. You are emotional to the point of irrationality about Palin. She’s a fake and a fraud, but that attracts a lot of emotional people, I guess.

In Vino Veritas

 

Achance- I was going to say something about this above

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:37PM EST (link)

but decided not to. Since Jaded brought it up, I also remember when you wrote a diary a long while ago where you said Palin got to where she did by making lateral moves. There was no doubt in your implication. That is surely one thing you really need to rectify with facts, or take the comment back. That made my hair stand on end. That was actually worse than the lies the MSM has printed about her. If there was ever any time that happened, it would have been all over the news cycles, 24/7 for a week. I do not believe for a minute that Palin has ever been unfaithful to her husband. Now that we have posted that lie here, watch it be on the front page of the NYT tomorrow. Former Alaska government official says Palin slept her way into the Governorship! Good Lord.

Except that I never said it.

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:43PM EST (link)

You and jaded just have it on the brain. Don’t have any thing to take back and have no intention of taking back anything I’ve actually said about St. Sarah.

In Vino Veritas

The word you are looking for

SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:35PM EST (link)

Art,

It’s “Hissy Fit” and it applies to some people it appears.

______________________________________

Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 
 
 
 
 

Jaded you're off your meds again.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:24PM EST (link)

I assume you’re talking about this diary.

I made one comment in a three comment gthread that was started by pilgrim, followed by AKSteveB. The link will give you the entire thread.

My comment specifically reads:
Comment title: And, she’s got a lot to contribute as well.
Comment body: She’s a great speaker and fund raiser. She’s just not a candidate.

Now then, I’d really like a detail explanation about just how I “destroy[ed] a diary with your negativism.:

You want to LOVE her, do it someplace else. If you want to be objective about whether she’s a reasonable candidate then deal with the issues. That’s something none of the Palin Promoters are willing to do.

hey becker, I want to believe

pilgrim (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:37PM EST (link)

You and Achance are smart enough to see what kind of mischief third street is up to on these Palin diaries.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 

Oh no you don't becker

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:51PM EST (link)

and Achance. Now you are both lying. I was here the day achance specifically said that she got to where she is by “lateral moves.” He was immediately attacked by Jaded, and most likely others. I am out of this discussion. If you can’t even be honest about a comment that was definately made, no question, no misinterpretation, than everyone should be suspect of everything you both say. What you posted becker is just a ploy in your game, and you know it. This is not the MSM. This is not a Liberal site. You cannot just lie your way out of a discussion that has definately become explosive, fueled by a 2 month wonderboy, Third Street that has latched onto your vitriol, and, will only go elsewhere and use it to his advantage. Like someone said in another comment, you are being used, massaged, and glorified by someone you have given credit to because he has taken up your mantra here. You two are amazing. Any other time a new commenter comes here, they have to pass your litmus test. Now that Third Street has done that because he is licking your boots, for his own benefit, he is an immediate becker/achance star. Maybe you both ought to apply to make some quick money writing Palin articles for the NYT. Third Street probably already has a contract.

Scope, buzz off.

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:00PM EST (link)

Like jaded, your meds are off today.

You wouldn’t know a “fact” if it bit you on the butt. And you certainly cant make a rational argument.

Go be a victim someplace else. You bore me.

becker- You buzz off

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:16PM EST (link)

because you are nothing but a butt kisser to Achance. You always have the same old tired comments to everyone who does not see things your way. You are an idiot, you don’t know facts, you are playing the victim, and your most frequently used- your meds are off today. I have not for the first moment played any victim here at all, simply because I have never looked at myself as a victim. I started out the day pointing out that one’s opinions don’t always match everyone else’s. When you can’t argue yourself out of a paper bag, punching the sides as you have, you resort to the gutter level. Why would I have ever thought that you could rise above that.

Moderators, time to close comments on this diary

civil truth (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:20PM EST (link)

Too many electrons are dying in vain from a circular firing squad.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

Yeah, 'fraid so, C_T; emotions run wild. nt

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:31PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

Yes you are correct civil truth

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 8:03PM EST (link)

because those that are not male automatically get accused of “emotions” when the male species are in the mood for a Saturday night corner street fight. Oh, I forgot, it must be PMS, even though that is a long ago memory.

Please if there are any moderators here, close this down. This is nothing but fodder for the MSM that would pick up on anything anti-Palin. A wonder that Palin has not picked up on Achance’s attempt at her destruction. Then again, she is not that dumb.

 
 

5

gekster (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:31PM EST (link)

I hate to see friends do this to each other.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 
 
 

becker- You buzz off

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:16PM EST (link)

because you are nothing but a butt kisser to Achance. You always have the same old tired comments to everyone who does not see things your way. You are an idiot, you don’t know facts, you are playing the victim, and your most frequently used- your meds are off today. I have not for the first moment played any victim here at all, simply because I have never looked at myself as a victim. I started out the day pointing out that one’s opinions don’t always match everyone else’s. When you can’t argue yourself out of a paper bag, punching the sides as you have, you resort to the gutter level. Why would I have ever thought that you could rise above that.

 
 

No, scope, you were here the day jaded inability to read manifested itself

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:02PM EST (link)

in this diary: http://www.redstate.com/achance/2008/12/21/why-i-dont-like-sarah-palin/

jaded trotted out the “can’t stand a powerful woman” meme and I responded. She’s the one that read something into what I said that wasn’t there and it went on until the mods closed it.

Now, go read it with somehting resembling objectivity if you’re capable of that; it starts about half a dozen comments in.

In Vino Veritas

Thank you for linking that diary Achance

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:37PM EST (link)

it does show your sexist attitudes back to way back then.

I see your reading comprehension is no better now than back then. nt

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:58PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 

Scope, I hope you realize this sort of comment does not help Palin at all.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:27PM EST (link)

My opinions about Sarah Palin are entirely my own, and my determination that she could not be trusted and discomfort at the cult-like zeal of her supporters were formed well before I ever registered here. The more of this kind of crap I see, the more convinced I am that my reservations were well-founded. It’s the Democrats who put up saviors rather than candidates, and I’ll have no part of that.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 
 
 
 

Bull, mbecker.

Finrod (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:25PM EST (link)

I’ve replied numerous times to you and you have yet to respond with anything of substance.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

If that's the case Finrod I missed

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:04PM EST (link)

your comments and I apologize.

I’ve never knowingly run away from an argument on the issues. Hopefully we’ll get to have that discussion t a later date because this thread is pretty well radioactive now.

 
 

Actually, your so-called "facts" aren't ture

hbgconservative Sunday, November 22nd at 8:15PM EST (link)

The gas pipeline has done a lot for the state. It’s been a boon for the economy in Alaska. She is a fiscal conservative. Her state is gets a surplus every year because of the taxes she has cut. And she rejected the stimulus money, keeping a lot of pork from entering the state. As for dividing the legislature, a lot of those Republicans are in the old guard and she has still gotten much done in spite of them trying to damage her. She’s explained why she left the governorship: it’s tough for a lame duck governor to get anything done, and the state was being cost millions of dollars because of the phony lawsuits against her; this also took time away from her agenda. No, “the fact is”, you clearly have zero understanding her appeal and you never will because you’ve made up your mind that you don’t like her. Not that it matter because the facts speak for themselves.

 
 
 
 
 

It has actually been very much against interest

Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:53PM EST (link)

to be critical of her, and I have been since day one going back to when she was a candidate for governor and I was still working for the State. Had I been willing to finish Murkowski’s term and stay on as she took office, there’s no way she would have fired me. I just didn’t want to have to deal with her if she won. By the spring of ’06 it was evident that Murkowski wouldn’t be re-elected, the wheels were coming off the Administration and it was fairlyobvious that somebody I knew was going to jail and I didn’t want to go with them. I had 120 days in for ’06 which gave me a year’s retirement credit and the only way I could get the next 120 days was to suck up to either Tony Knowles or Sarah Palin; neither seemed a good choice, so July 1, 2006 seemed like a really good day to retire.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 

Hey Jaded, we LOST in NY-23, didn't we?

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:42PM EST (link)

I could be mistaken. Let me go check it again…

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

No WE did NOT lose in NY23....

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 2:45PM EST (link)

because the hill to die on was ALWAYS about making the NRCC pay for their choice of a liberal and they PAID and NY23 for Doug Hoffman with 3 weeks and Redstate, Palin, Thompson and so many more big names in the Conservative Movement had come within 2K votes….that is not a technical win but I will and others like me will take that a MOMENTUM forward in 2010!

While you are checking on NY23 check on taking your head out of your backside!

Jaded, the bottom line is that the Palin-endorsed candidate LOST.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:05PM EST (link)

And I fully understand and agree that NY-23 was a hill to die on.

But that has nothing to do with Sarah Palin. The bottom line for her is that in the first major test of her electoral influence, the candidate she endorsed lost. If anything, she probably energized Democrats to support Owens, meaning her endorsement was a wash, at best.

A defeated VP candidate, a cut-and-run ex-governor, and now a failed kingmaker. Tell me again why we’re making her the front-runner for President?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

It's interesting that she didn't show up

mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:26PM EST (link)

in either of the Governor’s races we won.

Polarization filters on (nt)

SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:27PM EST (link)

______________________________________

Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 

I couldn't help but notice that, too. (nt)

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:31PM EST (link)

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 
 

Oh, wow

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:34PM EST (link)

now HY-23 is her fault too.

Sheesh

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Not really

SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:56PM EST (link)

Vegas_Rick

NY 23 was the fault of not having a primary. Nothing more nothing less.

Check back in the fall and see who the real R’s in the district choose to carry the banner for the party. I somehow doubt it will be Hoffman.

______________________________________

Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests

 

Didn't say that.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:00PM EST (link)

What I am saying is that she has yet to demonstrate she can deliver the goods for a candidate for office, which is one of the hopes so many have pinned upon her.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Well

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:15PM EST (link)

do we hold it against her that she tried, and helped raise over $160 k in one day? If so, what do we do about the guys who didn’t have the political courage to even try? Romney? Huckabee? Others?

To me her effort means more than their silence.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Still waiting Third street. nt

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:30PM EST (link)

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

See below.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:40PM EST (link)

And yes, I do appreciate her effort and am well aware that Romney and Huckabee were silent. But I don’t want either of them to be President either.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Don't keep us in suspense Third Street

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:44PM EST (link)

Instead of tearing down others, perhaps you would care to announce and defend your dream candidate.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

I don't have a "dream candidate."

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:49PM EST (link)

Because unlike the Palinistas, I’m reasonable enough to understand that no such thing exists, and that’s it’s foolish to try to anoint one three years away from the general election.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

I noticed how you dodged the question.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:54PM EST (link)

I understand. It is easier to criticize others than to defend ones own position.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

Not a dodge.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:15PM EST (link)

I don’t have a candidate for 2012. Doesn’t mean I don’t know who I do want, just as my inability to predict what the ’08 field of GOP candidates would be in 2005 didn’t mean I didn’t already know I didn’t want John McCain.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

"Doesn't mean I DO know who I want", I meant.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 6:17PM EST (link)

Man it’s getting tight in here.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Third Street- You are pathetic

Scope (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 4:46PM EST (link)

You are so desperate to bash Palin and everthing about her, you now resort to a major gain for the conservatives, with a little known candidate getting to within a few thousand votes against a Democrat, to put the blame on Palin as being the loser. You must also consider Fred Thompson, Jim DeMint, the Club for Growth and all those many many others that also came to bat for Hoffma. Your hatred is blinding you, and spiraling downward with everything you say only makes you get more and more irrational. Don’t bother replying to this, as I know the Alinsky rules for radicals, which is to just say anything anything to make yourself heard.

"Screw you Third Street! NOW DON'T REPLY!"

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:25PM EST (link)

Heh.

Anyway, as I was saying, Hoffman isn’t the issue here; nor are Fred Thompson, Jim DeMint, the Club for Growth, the NRCC, or the conservative victory in shooting down Scozzafava. The issue is that NY-23 was Palin’s opportunity to actually do something for the GOP for once, to demonstrate that she could be a net positive for the party and its candidates. ‘Cause let’s face it, she didn’t bring John McCain anywhere close to the finish line. She couldn’t drag Hoffman over the line in NY-23. And quite frankly, I think it’s likely her presence turned off as many or more voters in that district than she gained.

So the question remains: When will Sarah Palin actually accomplish something tangible for us, and not just for Sarah Palin? Sure, I’m glad she’s cleaning up on book sales, but what does that do for the GOP? When are we going to start seeing some concrete evidence that she can meet the standards her supporters have set for her?

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

P.S.

Third Street (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 3:32AM EST (link)

It’s true — until the V.P. pick I didn’t know whether her name was pronounced with a long or short “a”. I didn’t know this, because until then I had never, ever heard her name spoken aloud on a radio or TV news show. (And I watch and listen to a hell of a lot of news.)

Come to think of it, on the day she was picked I’m pretty sure I remember hearing commentators using the short-a pronounciation.

The reason there was such confusion as recently as August 2008 was because… well, you get the idea.

“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.” –Wilkins Micawber, “David Copperfield”

Wow, my opinion of you went even lower.

Finrod (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:29PM EST (link)

Obviously in addition to being clueless about politics, you’re also clueless about Monty Python, if you didn’t know how Michael Palin pronounced his last name.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

 

Maybe, just maybe, you should

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 5:34PM EST (link)

drift away from the MSM a little. You would have had to be seriously politically impaired to really have not heard of Governor Palin prior to her selection. Most conservatives were aware of her long before that.

I think that’s all of the commentary necessary about your qualifications to criticize.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 
 
 
 

What goes around, comes around. I hope she would endorse a real conservative. nt

Common_Cents (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 7:11PM EST (link)

McCain failed miserably on an election that could have been won. Time to go. That will send a solid solid message as for the direction of the Rep party.

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

In fact Sarah's endorsement of JD will hurt him.

mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, November 21st at 8:40PM EST (link)

The conservative base in the state doesn’t need either Sarah or Fred or anybody else to push an alternative to McCain.

The problem is that Arizona is not a Red State. We’ve had a D governor for the last two terms and our current R governor is serving only because she was next in line when Janet left to go to DHS. Brewer will likely get tossed next year if she runs and we’ll have another D governor for another 8 years.

AZ has closed primaries. The Indys lean way left. They will likely register R at the urging of McCain anyway and if Sarah comes to town they’ll stampede to re-register. And they will ALL vote for McCain. And that’s a whole lot more than 2 or 3 percent.

 
 

Wow.

thatsright (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 12:50PM EST (link)

I’d call this a successful discussion.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I enjoyed reading.

I for one knew who Sarah Palin was long before McCain picked her and was vocal, for what that was worth, in my hope that he would pick her.

All I’m saying is that one way or another, sooner or later, Sarah Palin would be in the exact same place she is now. You just can’t keep that kind of star power hidden for very long.

Thanks again everybody.

Russ

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

amen Russ, and yes, JSM should have to pay damages to SP for unconditionally backing the bailouts and blowing the election that SP

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 7:00PM EST (link)

had made possible to win.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

I agree

thatsright (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 8:08PM EST (link)

While I recognize the intense emotions Sarah brings out in people, (152 comments on this piece? wow), I think the evidence is straightforward that SP almost won the election for McCain and that anyone else would not have made the same difference.

People would have found out about Sarah Palin one way or the other. It was inevitable.

Russ Cote
www.thats-right.com/rapid-fire-rightness/

 
 
 

Thread closed

Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 22nd at 8:18PM EST (link)

Because civility was lost because I don’t have time to clean this mess up.

RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules

Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.

“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder

 

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