Promoted from diaries, with a video of the original gutting announcement below the fold. – Moe Lane
Mike Carey, president of the Ohio Coal Association, issued a devastating response to the Obama audiotape today. He states:
“Regardless of the timing or method of the release of these remarks, the message from the Democratic candidate for President could not be clearer: the Obama-Biden ticket spells disaster for America’s coal industry and the tens of thousands of Americans who work in it.
“These undisputed, audio-taped remarks, which include comments from Senator Obama like ‘I haven’t been some coal booster’ and ‘if they want to build [coal plants], they can, but it will bankrupt them’ are extraordinarily misguided.
“It’s evident that this campaign has been pandering in states like Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, Indiana and Pennsylvania to attempt to generate votes from coal supporters, while keeping his true agenda hidden from the state’s voters.“Senator Obama has revealed himself to be nothing more than a short- sighted, inexperienced politician willing to say anything to get a vote. But today, the nation’s coal industry and those who support it have a better understanding of his true mission, to ‘bankrupt’ our industry, put tens of thousands out of work and cause unprecedented increases in electricity prices.
Here’s hoping this spreads like wildfire. If you live in a coal producing state please spread the word.
Via Hot Air – ML:
Neil Stevens
Steve Maley
Thank You OCA....
Mushy_MiddleGuy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 11:55AM EST (link)You just gave McCain Ohio AND Pennsylvania AND Virginia. Say hello, President McCain.
Just one problem
Next93 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 11:57AM EST (link)OK, someone has to point this out; McCain originally sponsored the cap-and-trade bill that got shut down in the last session.
So NOW what do we do? Go out and tell the world that McCain wants to kill the coal industry slower?
Yet again more proof that you can’t beat the Democrats by trying to be “Democrat Lite”. If the Republicans had stood firm against the whole Global Warming scam, maybe this could get some traction.
Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.
Guys...
LiberalNutJob Monday, November 3rd at 11:58AM EST (link)…As I’ve said before, I empathize, I really do. (That’s non-ironic, btw.) We have SO been where you are today.
But hear the words of your own candidate on this issue.
He holds almost the identical position on “clean” coal.
This is a complete red herring.
Palin's Influence
Steph C (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:04PM EST (link)Even as Palin demurred on manmade global warming on TV interviews, evidence from scientific circles were backing her up indicating that we’re entering a cooling period rather than unrestrained warming due to carbon emissions.
Palin has had a positive effect on McCain as much as she has had on the base. It’s like this: McCain once opposed the Bush tax cuts, too, but he had to admit he was wrong about that. He’s not afraid to change his position if the initial position was the wrong one to take.
That’s how you say it.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
the Obama campaign responds
pithnvinegar Monday, November 3rd at 12:04PM EST (link)by saying that his words were taken out of context, the context being that he was talking to a newspaper in San Francisco, not to reporters in western Pennsylvania . . .
Will it MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
LizVBronx (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:06PM EST (link)Sorry to yell, but will this change things. Tell me YES redstaters. I’m freaking out!!!!!
There is a way...
Mushy_MiddleGuy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:08PM EST (link)to implement a cap-and-trade system that doesn’t kill business. Notice Obama said that “my plan is more drastic than some of the others out there.” McCain does support cap-and-trade, but not one nearly as drastic as Obama’s.
Not the first time Obama lied
finaljeopardy Monday, November 3rd at 12:10PM EST (link)Barack Obama, as a US Senate candidate, met with Maytag workers, asked for their donations and promised them he’d help save their jobs, and that he then went to the Crown family and took their large donations, but never said a word to Crown about saving the jobs of the Maytag workers? Those jobs got shipped to Mexico.
Obama did, however, get a preferential rate om a mortgage from the Crowns. He earmarked an $8 million request for the High Explosive Air Burst Technology Program, too. Ultimately, $1.3 million in funding was awarded for the program. The defense project was overseen by General Dynamics, one of the nation’s largest military contractors. Crown and his wife Paula are members of Obama’s National Finance Committee and have raised several hundred thousand for Obama.
So from this we learn: Barack Obama has no trouble lying to blue collar voters. He will not protect your jobs or make any waves with his fat cat donors. He’s not even seriously antiwar. The only thing you can reasonably expect from Obama is that he is looking out for himself first.
Some Democrat "Strategist" Said Obamas Remarks On Coal
rcov092 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:11PM EST (link)On Fox this AM -
Democrat Strategist said the comments were taken out of context and then she immediately ran towards the “economy”. Fortunately, Megyn Kelly cut her off at the knees on that one.
“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”
Join the RedState Strike Force
What A Lame Rebuttal
Swamp_Yankee (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:15PM EST (link)I hope Kos tries to push this. There is no comparison to the pandering Oabam explicitly stating that he wants to bankrupt the coal industry.
He doesn't care
fisk2521 Monday, November 3rd at 12:18PM EST (link)This will devastate the coal industry in this country – - clean coal or not and will directly effect each and every voter out there.
I’m sitting in upstate New York on the Finger Lakes. The energy plant down the road from us is a coal-fired plant. Everyone should maybe for the first time ask themselves if their electricity comes from the same kind of plant, and I will bet you odds out it does. It’s time we stopped allowing these environmentalists to threaten our way of life without any regard to the consequences.
Find out what generates your power…..it just might be coal… and wake the hell up. Obama is telling you right to your face that he will bankrupt the coal industry and you as well.
Does he love this country? NO
LDavis
McCain is clear about Cap and Trade
finaljeopardy Monday, November 3rd at 12:20PM EST (link)He explains his plans at great detail on his website, and he relies on free market solutions. Obama wants to regulate and fine coal producers until they are bankrupt. The difference between the two could not be more clear. Here is McCain’s website:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/da151a1c-733a-4dc1-9cd3-f9ca5caba1de.htm
Sarah Palin can really help revitalize our infrastructure and update our energy policy. As the Governor of an oil-producing state with an understanding of alternative energy production, how much it would cost, and someone who has successfully managed a large budget, you have an invaluable expert in the White House should McCain be elected.
The choice between these two candidates is so obvious! I could choke undecideds.
Not surprising...
Robert (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:21PM EST (link)This story is no where to be seen on the MSM. Instead, stories about Palin getting a prank phone call are front page on CNN.
Coal Association Needs to Do An Ad Buy
rcov092 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:23PM EST (link)How about a 60 second commercial
Ask Obama, where will our coal miners work? How will we heat our homes? How will be refrigerate our Food? How will we light our homes? How will we run our subways?
49% of all electricity consumed in the US now is from coal. What…..wil you replace it with after you bankrupt it?
“Not One Red Dime for the NRSC or NRCC till they stop trying to elect liberals”
Join the RedState Strike Force
No, your guy wants to strangle the coal industry as is, LiberalNutJob.
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:26PM EST (link)Mine doesn’t.
What do you people have against reliable electricity, anyway?
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Shocked!
aardpig Monday, November 3rd at 12:26PM EST (link)I’m shocked, shocked to find pandering going on in a political campaign!
“I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C and D. Just who do they think they are?”. — B.G.
Go get the papers, get the papers...
cusefan96 Monday, November 3rd at 12:30PM EST (link)Agreed. Where should I be looking for this story? I tried the Pitt Post-Gazette, Cincy Enquirer, and the Plains-Dealer websites. Those are areas that may be affected by destruction of the coal industry…but nothing.
There was, however, a truly inspirational piece in the Gazette about a woman who is building a remarkable antique doll collection.
—————————–
“Sweep the leg…finish him!”
So, you admit that he's lying, aardpig?
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:31PM EST (link)So what else is Obama lying about?
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Not only that...
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:35PM EST (link)…if America loses 49% of it’s electricity how the hell is industry going to run? Solar, wind, biodiesel are drops in the bucket and WILL ALWAYS BE!! You cannot rely on solar or wind. If America doesn’t boot Obama and the democraps NOW and start building Nuclear power plants NOW then America will be a 4th world country and YOU don’t want to know what that will mean.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Both sides lie...
aardpig Monday, November 3rd at 12:36PM EST (link)…that’s just what politicians do. The key is to work out what they likely aren’t lying about, and to try to base one’s decisions on that.
This is nothing new; Athenian democracy was full of just the same sort of pandering. How can we fix it? Well, unless we advocate some kind of enforceable standards that prohibit falsehoods in political campaigning (as is the case in the UK for TV advertising), it is pretty difficult to stop.
“I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C and D. Just who do they think they are?”. — B.G.
Interesting worldview, but let's get back to Obama's lying.
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:40PM EST (link)Where else do you think that he’s lying? By all means, be specific.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
No. McCain was going to win PA anyway.
Uma Richie (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:40PM EST (link)This will merely increase the margin of victory.
His aunt, for one...
aardpig Monday, November 3rd at 12:51PM EST (link)…I think he probably knew she was still in the USA, contrary to statements from his campaign.
That’s all you’ll get from me, however. While I’m unable to vote, I still have to live here, and so, with all due respect, I’ll not play Benedict Arnold for you.
“I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C and D. Just who do they think they are?”. — B.G.
Benedict Arnold was a traitor...
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:57PM EST (link)…I don’t think that your admission is quite up to his league.
But you win this exchange on points: I didn’t actually expect you to bite the bullet on that, which speaks well to your intellectual honesty. Well done.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Another way
finaljeopardy Monday, November 3rd at 12:58PM EST (link)You could refuse to vote for liars. Give me an example of McCain ever lying like Obama consistently does. I take exception to you tarring McCain as a “typical politician.”
Also, Obama breaking his pledge on campaign finance means that you will see fewer young politicians unbeholden to special interests, since they will be unable to compete against the likely new wave of billion dollar campaigns.
the difference is the initial allocation
zebrapants Monday, November 3rd at 1:32PM EST (link)Both candidates support cap-and-trade. Cap-and-trade is a great free market solution that takes the pollution externality and internalizes it into the cost of doing business. To pollute, you need to buy a transferable credit, and there’s a limited number of credits.
The difference between the McCain plan and the Obama plan is the initial allocation of credits. The McCain plan gives credits to industries that have historically been big polluters. The Obama plan gives out no credits, and all polluters (whether they have a history of polluting or not) have to buy the credits at auction (or resale, after the initial auction).
This is what Obama is referring to when he says in that interview that the government should not pick winners and losers. In Obama’s view, giving out the pollution credits to industries that have historically been polluters is giving them a competitive advantage.
At the end of the day, it won’t matter if we give the credits to polluting industries or not. If the markets are functioning properly, the eventual allocation of the credits will go to those that value them the most, regardless of the initial allocation. This means that if coal was unprofitable under the Obama plan, coal wouldn’t actually be consumed under the McCain plan (the coal companies would just sell the credits to companies that could use them more profitably). The balance sheets of coal companies will be affected by McCain vs. Obama, but the amount of Coal produced and consumed (i.e. coal mine jobs) will not.
One More Time....
Skanderbeg (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 1:40PM EST (link)And if the OCA wants to use this image, they have my permission….
How important is coal?
fisk2521 Monday, November 3rd at 1:46PM EST (link)The Department of Energy website reminds us of the importance of coal toour economy.
If Obama destroys this industry as he has told us he will do, he will destroy us as a nation.
LDavis
Cap and Trade is a "Free Market" Solution?
Next93 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 2:09PM EST (link)You and I must have some radically different ideas about what constitutes “free market”.
No matter who’s proposing it, it ends up with the government arbitrarily declaring an unavoidable byproduct of enery production as a “polutant”, creating an artificial market for carbon credits, allocating credits as it sees fit, and setting the floor and ceiling prices for these credits.
None of that sounds particularly “free market” to me. It also doesn’t sound particularly consumer-friendly; it’s a tax on all American businesses, and will either be passed down to the consumer and/or will cost jobs by making American products less competitive overseas.
Add in the fact that there’s no scientific proof that CO2 has any noticable effect on global temperatures, and that even the most ardent supporters of the AGW theory admit that cap-and-trade will have a negligable effect (unless it’s used to force us all to abandon the industrial era), it’s a bad idea all around.
I can understand a closet socialist like Obama pushing this, but for someone who calls himself a Republican to have tried to foist it on the American public is unforgivable.
Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.
If Obama destroys this industry as he has told us he will do, he will destroy us as a nation.
olsmithie (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 2:37PM EST (link)As is his intent. Hardly any electricity, no gasoline, what’s next.
With 250 years of known coal reserve, he must get rid of it to turn us into a third world nation.
Windmills require coal backup capacity for quick response, solar is a non-starter on a large scale at this point in the technology. Will he let us have natural gas plants?
I wonder, how will we charge our little roller skates they call electric cars?
Once again the man illustrates that he just babbles whatever is on his mind at the moment without thinking it through.
Imagine how dangerous he would be if he was intelligent??
Regards
depends if you believe in global warming
zebrapants Monday, November 3rd at 2:40PM EST (link)If you don’t believe in global warming, then yes, I agree that you should oppose both McCain and Obama’s plans.
The scheme is “free market” in the sense that it converts a public externality into a private good that can be bought and sold. A limit on emissions is decided on via legislation (i.e. the number of credits), and after that it’s all up to the market to choose how much each industry pollutes. The dollar cost of pollution is likewise determined by the market, as companies compete to do more with fewer credits. New industries emerge as the market will support products that make your credits go further, and support new businesses that capture CO2 and sell corresponding credits.
The scheme isn’t “free market” in the lack-of-regulation sense, but it is “free market” in that it uses markets to determine the penalties for pollution. If you believe that global warming is a problem, then cap-and-trade is a great solution.
No, zebrapants, the difference is that Obama plans to gut the coal industry...
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 2:40PM EST (link)…by making it impossible for them to build new coal plants. For several decades.
McCain does not.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
new coal plants will be unprofitable under both plans
zebrapants Monday, November 3rd at 2:58PM EST (link)Regarding CO2 emissions, the McCain plan and the Obama plan are quite similar. The difference is that McCain will be giving the coal companies free credits, while the Obama plan will not.
Either way, market forces will direct the credits to the most efficient usage. Under the McCain plan, if the credits are worth less to the coal company that was granted the credit than they are to a competing natural gas company (because its lower emissions mean that it can do more with each credit) then the coal company will just turn around and sell the credit to the natural gas company.
The coal company does better under the McCain plan, because it makes a lot selling these credits. But in terms of jobs, actual coal production should drop to the same levels under both plans.
I wonder how far this would get??
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 3:03PM EST (link)So imagine the coal fired plants owners shut down the plants in the winter as a protest? They would probably run public service announcements for a week before any shut down. They would have to because all TV and some radio would be off the air after a shut down. This would give hospitals time to move patients to states that will still have nuclear or other power source energy plants.
This would give time for people to evacuate south to escape freezing weather. How many people do you think would march on Washington D.C. demanding a resignation from president Obama? We are talking science-fiction war of worlds kinda stuff. Imagine what a shut-down of Chicago, New York, Philly, Washington D.C. itself would do????
How many people would die? Would it really be worth sending coal fired power plants into bankruptcy?
Let’s not find out. VOTE McCain and keep the lights on.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Not the first time Obama lied
jcheney Monday, November 3rd at 3:07PM EST (link)You said: “Barack Obama has no trouble lying to blue collar voters.”
Don’t Democrats always lie to blue collar workers?
You do understand the meaning of the word "bankrupt," zebrapants?
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 3:11PM EST (link)It’s what Obama plans to make anybody who dares build a coal plant in this country during his (hypothetical) term of office.
Poorer. Colder. Increasingly in the dark. That’s what on the agenda.
I’m sorry, but it’s not my fault.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Bankrupt.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 3:22PM EST (link)(noun) American small business under Obama’s economic plans.
(adj.) When the government bails out my business so I can go make more stupid decisions like the ones that got me here in the first place.
(verb) To turn a successful business that contributes to the economy and tax base into a bunch of former workers in a soup line.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill
just like the 1970's all over again...
kyle8 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 3:22PM EST (link)and don’t be surprised to see the 55 mph speed limit to return, only this time it will be 45, and actually it will be a 70 KPH speed limit, after all, we have to go metric, it is the civilized and Euro thing to do.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
That's OK...
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 3:28PM EST (link)…cities will be bankrupt and there won’t be any cops around anyway…
MAD MAX 2009
Oh yeah!!
This is gonna be GREAT!!!!!
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
It's still an artificial market in which the government sets prices
Next93 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 4:37PM EST (link)First, the government mandates that all business must buy this “product”. There’s no choice, there’s no alternative, unless you beleive the power fairy is going to come along and bless us all with happy, friendly GREEN electricity just because we’ve seen the error or our ways and have nothing but goodness in our hearts. It’s a lot like the “alternative” fuels that I’m currently being forced to pay for, either by direct tax subsidies or through mandated market shares for solar and wind enacted by the public utilities commission.
Then, the government sets the number of credits available, which means it gets to indirectly set the market price.
Next, they set the floor price (the price at which they will directly sell credits, or the political price they extract for giving them away “for free” – if you don’t expect that to become a font of political patronage, you’re living in a fantasy world), and they set the ceiling price by dictating the size of the fines that will be levied on people who prodouce outside thier credited allotment.
The only part of this monstrosity that looks even remotely like a free market is the fact that the government is allowing secondary trading in these carbon
indulgencescredits. Which, of course, it will levy a completely DIFFERENT set of taxes on.Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.
Mike Carey, president of the Ohio Coal Association was just on CNBC
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 7:29PM EST (link)Excellent piece. Mike Carey comes out and says it on national TV – Obama would be bad news! They started the piece off with Obama’s audio about bankrupting the coal industry. It was on CNBC so hopefully it will run tonight on some local news in those coal producing swing states. The 4 minute piece explained where coal was produced and that bankrupting the coal energy would result in energy costs skyrockting around the USA. The newscasters said that energy is a NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE and that coal is the mainstay in America’s energy policy.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
So do
Wayne (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 7:51PM EST (link)the railroads. Sadly, it’s too late to happen. The top four railroads, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, CSX and Norfolk Southern, derive about 2/3 of their total revenues from hauling coal. No coal to haul, no railroads. No coal, no steel, no steel, no rails. Nice that this came out so late in the season, but better than the Khalidi tape, which won’t come out. So thanks, SF Chronicle, and LA Times, for giving the electorate all the information we need to make an informed decision.
“Hell, these are Marines. Men like them held Guadalcanal, and took Iwo Jima, Baghdad ain’t s–t”. Maj. Gen. John F. Kelly, USMC, Deputy CG, First MEF
[Translation: "LALALALALALALA I'm not listening..."]
I called other posters "Howler Monkeys" Monday, November 3rd at 8:26PM EST (link)[Not our fault that your guy plans to bankrupt people who want to build coal plants. It is your fault that you think that 'howler monkey' is acceptable discourse, so scram. - Moe Lane]