On April 24, 1980 our nation suffered one of the most humiliating military debacles in its history. The event, itself, was brought on by a series of turf battles, miscalculations, and garden variety incompetence. The event is less important than the zeitgeist.
America, at the time, was held in disdain by its president, a self-important little man of overweening ambition and meager talents who was inherently hostile to America’s interests and the idea of American exceptionalism. Our allies were neglected. Our enemies were relentlessly sucked up to. We were in disrepute with friend and foe alike; either an uncertain friend or a toothless tiger. At home our economy was in shambles. Our military was denigrated and underfunded. We were told our best days were behind us.
I don’t believe history follows direct parallels but for all our sakes I hope Obama takes up carpentry. Soon.
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Terrible memories
kowalski (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 3:43PM EST (link)I remember that day because of the terrible sense of loss and embarrassment that the United States had been so incapacitated by its President that we couldn’t mount a rescue mission to retrieve our own people. I was horrified for the soldiers. The impact of that day was every bit as percussive as the loss of the Space Shuttle Challenger (which I stayed home from school to watch explode) and almost as loud as 9/11.
Carter’s contempt for America had a way of insinuating itself into everything in our lives. I remember my father catching one of our neighbors stealing gasoline from our car before sunrise, trying to avoid the gas lines. His administration set people against each other like nothing I’ve ever seen. People think the political climate is hyper-partisan today. Well, bub, when your neighbor is siphoning gas from your car and you have to live with that possibility every day, believe me the climate can be worse. Give Obama a little time.
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Political damage too
SteveLA (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 3:54PM EST (link)I remember the effect it had on Regan’s election run.
Desert One represented everything that Carter had done to this country’s military and punctuated the need to make a change. The combination of the failure of the Desert One mission and the effects of Americans being held by a foreign power while this country and President Carter sat in the White House doing seemingly nothings was a sign of the impotency of this country in my view.
Needless to say, President Reagan fixed the problems with the military and showed that the US was not going to be trifled with during Operation El Dorado Canyon, the bombing of Libya.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
The plan was madness.
NeoKong (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 3:59PM EST (link)Weren’t the commandos dressed as Revolutionary guards…?
They were supposed to just march into the embassy and retrieve the hostages and somehow make it to a soccer stadium where they would be picked up by helicopters.
The mission was a total disaster from the get go.
They had all sorts of mechanical problems, fuel problems, a helicopter crashed into a c-130 and then ended up abandoning five choppers in the desert which were captured and two are still in service in the Iranian navy today.
Eight servicemen died too.
It was doomed from the start.
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Question
1stRichard (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 8:09AM EST (link)What happened on the ship, why were the helicopters worked on and who gave the final go ahead given the work done? Who demanded all branches were to be involved mission, was this person really qualified to make mission policy. Start asking the right questions and you will find you are all wrong, it is much worse.
Well stated,
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 4:05PM EST (link)Cordially
Weasel Warren Christopher
ptowner Saturday, April 24th at 5:07PM EST (link)I recall reading in Rogue Warrior that the weasel Muppet christopher told the commanders to try not to hurt any of the captors and that if they had to shoot, shoot them in the shoulder or something, Pathetic.
malaise X 2
texasgalt (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 5:32PM EST (link)Strong parallels to today,
Joe Cor (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 6:25PM EST (link)but a few non-parallels as well:
The GOP had more backbone in those days. They weren’t as afraid to challenge a Democrat as now.
The media did not like Carter. Maybe it was his born-again Christianity, but he wasn’t treated with the kid gloves Obama is given.
Carter was a much worse politician than Obama. His political savvy was much more akin to GWB’s.
Carter wasn’t a socialist. He de-fanged the Humphrey-Hawkins full employment bill. Ted Kennedy ran as a left-wing challenge to Carter in 1980.
We had Reagan waiting in the wings in 1980. Who of his stature is waiting in the wings now?
I think we’re in much more dire straits than we were in 1980.
disagree on your first point
streiff (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 6:54PM EST (link)under Carter the GOP had been thoroughly stump-trained. Reagan was considered, by the GOP establishment, to be a mad man.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
I agree with Streiff on the GOP during Carter....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 6:59PM EST (link)the GOP in the 70′s were mostly Rockefeller Republicans who went along to get a few small items they wanted but they were ROLLED OVER for all the social legislation that the Democrats wanted.
Reagan was the spark that lit the GOP to dream of majorities and actually being a Party that could compete because they were what Carter was and that was in a state of MALAISE!
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Joe_Cor you either weren't alive in 1980 or weren't
mbecker908 (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:16PM EST (link)paying attention.
Backbone. Streiff is right, the GOP had none. This was the GOP of Jerry Ford. They made the “RINOs” of today look like staunch conservatives.
Worse politician. I’m not so sure of that, the biggest difference now is the media is about 1,000% more in the tank for TheBoyPresident™ than they ever were for Carter.
Socialist. Yeah, Carter didn’t grow up to be a full fledged socialist until after he got tossed, but he was every bit the big government liberal that LBJ was. See US Department of Education.
Reagan. No, we didn’t have Reagan “in the wings”. We had Ford and Bush1 and a bunch of other professional, big government Republicans running for POTUS. Reagan was in a huge fight for the nomination and right up to the point where he told Bush1, “I paid for this microphone…” in New Hampshire he wasn’t favored. He was, in fact, hated more by the establishment Republicans than he was by the Dems.
I only slightly disagree with your conclusion though. We’re in a whole lot more danger now than we were in 1980. The Federal Government, the State Governments, County Governments and virtually every major city is right on the brink of financial ruin – see unfunded pensions.
The foundation under which that disaster rests is a greatly enlarged government at all levels. Not only is it enlarged, it’s strongly unionized, making the necessary cuts – REAL cuts not cuts in growth – almost a political impossibility.
Finally, it doesn’t really seem that we’ve got anyone in the wings who might be able to lead us out of this mess. All we’ve got are failed 08 candidates, none of which could even be remotely construed to be a “smaller government” candidate, a former governor who ran out on her only real elective office and who is no fiscal conservative based on her budgets, and some Senators and Critters who have no real base of policy or leadership around which people might coalesce. The closest thing we have to real conservative leadership is probably Governor Christie in NJ.
Regrettaby, I was quite alive in 1980
Joe Cor (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 6:48AM EST (link)Backbone: Jerry Ford vetoed around 30 spending bills the Democrats sent to him. He went on national TV and quite dramatically ripped Congress. Imagine the most recent Republican president doing that. He made a public case to try to save South Vietnam and Cambodia. He made a most passionate effort to win in 1976. He ripped into Carter for being a flip-flopper. He didn’t denounce Carter’s critics, as the two most recent GOP candidates did with their opponents’ critics.
Media: Bad things about Carter actually made the news in a big-time way. Days of coverate went into the Bert Lance scandal. Taking polls showing how unpopular Carter was became a media obsession. One couldn’t turn on a news show without seeing a new one. Embarrassing things about Carter got covered. I can remember Carter being ridiculed over his battle with a rabbit in a river. Perhaps it was that the media just in general was less in the tank with leftists than it is today, but a lot more not nice stuff was reported about Carter than ever made in on the air for Clinton or Obama.
Socialist: The big socialist agenda when he first became president was the Humphrey-Hawkins full employment bill, that would have actually mandated a federal job to anyone in the country unemployed. If that had passed, it might have made Obamacare look fiscally conservative. But Carter watered it down so much that the bill was nothing but symbolic. He did do major government intrusions with energy, I’ll admit. But he was no Obama, at least domestically. Foreign-policywise, he probably was.
Reagan: I guess maybe he crept up a little on people in 1980, but he was considered the front-runner going in to the primaries. But someone with his political skills and intelligence and backbone, probably multiplied by 10, will be needed to pull us back from where we are now. Maybe we won’t know who that person is until he/she emerges, but no one has emerged yet.
you are correct on all counts sir
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 6:57AM EST (link)But to give mbecker his due, I think he believes that Ford was less conservative than he actually was because his was a different type of conservatism than Reagan’s.
Whereas Reagan was an activist with new ideas, Ford was a trench fighter with old ideas. Furthermore, he was probably the most conservative Republican of his type of the old guard establishment. His cronies, Nelson Rockefeller and Bob Dole were much less intrinsically conservative.
But you are right that he fought a pretty good fight against a liberal congress by using the veto,
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Agreed, Ford was clearly not a Reagan conservative.
Joe Cor (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 7:45AM EST (link)He was actually to the left of Carter on abortion. Bush was in many ways more conservative than Ford. Bush would never have picke Rockefeller as VP, for instance.
But as you say, Ford was a fighter. It seems to me that Republicans back then, even if they were not as conservative as those of today, were fighters when they did disagree with Democrats. They knew, unlike Republicans today, the difference between after-hours socializing and fighting for the things they believed in. When they believed something, they did not sacrifice all on the alter of collegiality, as Republicans are wont to do today.
Ford was nothing more than a big government Republican.
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 12:10PM EST (link)He just wanted bigger government on the cheap. Like Nixon.
You say Ford was a “fighter”. I disagree. He “fought” to spend a little less and still grow the bureaucracy and government’s control over our lives. He was absolutely part of the problem, not part of the solution.
the record does not really support that
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 12:21PM EST (link)he was perhaps socially liberal, but not a big spender like Nixon. He actually brought down the growth of government and the deficit began to go down until Carter took over.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
He may have been part of the problem
Joe Cor (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 2:15PM EST (link)That’s why Reagan challenged him in 1976. But he showed, compared to today’s Republicans, a much more robust fighting spirit.
One more difference
JamesSmith130 Saturday, April 24th at 7:46PM EST (link)There was a rather serious Southern conservative wing of the Democrat Party back then. In fact, it wasn’t Republicans, but conservative Democrats who stopped Carter’s legislative agenda in Congress. They weren’t the Stupaks who pretended and caved in the end. They were more like the Phil Gramms, who was a Democrat until 1983.
The liberals like to say they all turned into Republicans but the truth is
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 7:02AM EST (link)that a few of them switched parties and the rest just retired or died off.
The south turned Republican after the older generation of yellow dog Democrats died off. Changes in the rustbelt states and high taxes drove many go getters and business oriented people into the souther states which swelled in population.
In addition, younger people (as I was at the time) saw no need to stick to the old ideas and racial politics of my uncles and teachers. I was lured into conservatism by the ideas of Ronald Reagan the the “Conservative Opportunity Society.”
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Forced busing was a bigger effect
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 12:34PM EST (link)kyle8
I’d probably argue that forced school desegregation in the form of forced busing was a bigger effect on turning many of the Southern Dixecrats into Republicans than any other effect. Lee Atwater and the “Southern Strategy” recognized this fact and was a major reason for the South turning R.
By the way, I was a victim of forced busing, so I tend to have my biases against overreach of the Federal judiciary. Don’t even get me started on majority minority districts created by judicial fiat in the South.
Throw in the destruction of conservative Democrat wing in ’68 with the Chicago convention and the turn of the Democratic party to being more what what it is today you have the seeds of the R party in the South.
Regan’s message of getting the Federal government out of state’s business was a very powerful one in the South for sure.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Forced integration
JamesSmith130 Sunday, April 25th at 2:24PM EST (link)was indeed the major problem, which is why Southerners rejected national Democrat candidates, but they still voted for their own (conservative) Democrats for many many years after. But it started well before the 1968 convention, it started in the early 1960s with JFK threatening the South with federal troops and interfering in their state affairs and passing clearly unconstitutional civil rights bills. Of the six states that Barry Goldwater won, five were in the South.
How much forced busing was there in the South? I was under the impression that most of the forced busing happened in big Northern cities. But the federal Court system ordered all sorts of bogus decisions in this realm with were not permitted by the constitution. Another example is the Loving v Virginia decision in 1967, which was pure judicial activism, because bans on interracial marriage do not violate the 14th Amendment as long as they are applied equally (that is as long as both white male/minority female and minority male/white female is rejected, ban is constitutional.)
Jimmy Carter was seen as one of *their* Democrats in 1976, which is why the rural South voted for him (Carter was weak among urban and suburban whites in the South while blacks reflexively voted Dem w/o thinking), and why Carter almost won several Southern states in 1980 against Reagan, even while getting crushed in most of the country.
And there was a strong conservative Democrat wing well into the 1980s, it was the “Boll Weevils” that gave Reagan votes to pass his agenda in the 1980s.
however, I do not think that the south turned
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 2:40PM EST (link)Republican until the 1980′s. They might have supported some national candidate before then but I think other issues were involved in actually changing party affiliation.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
I'd actually argue in many cases
JamesSmith130 Sunday, April 25th at 3:49PM EST (link)that the actual party switching wasn’t complete until after 1994. It was the 1994 landslide that told Southern conservative politicians outside the metro areas that the Dems were no longer the main party locally.
All over the country
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 2:52PM EST (link)Forced integration of schools with forced busing was a huge issue in the 70′s, in the South, in the North and not just in the big cities. In many cases I suppose this was justifiable with the slow, too slow some would say, ending of “Separate but Equal”.
It was before my time out here in CA, but I am given to understand that even in So Cal. the issue of forced busing was a big deal in the 70′s specifically in the San Fernando Valley.
The unifying issue for many conservatives was ending the practice of Federal judges forcing busing on people, and the issue of abortion or the other culture war topics that drive the base today was non-existent. From a history perspective as a shaping effect on politics, Roe came out in 1973, and few if any of the Democrats of the day were interested in pushing abortion on demand as an issue nor were gay “rights” an issue.
The treat posed by the Soviet Union, the Panama Canal in ’77 and a host of other issues related to the state of the world, including the subject of this diary, the Iranian hostage crisis, dominated the late 70′s as conservative issues. Donks, and Jimmy the Peanut man were seen as many as weak on all.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Crime and busing
JamesSmith130 Sunday, April 25th at 4:29PM EST (link)in that order were what rallied conservatives against the courts in the 1970s. The biggest issue was crime, both releasing criminals on technicalities and judges finding loopholes to invalidate death sentences for murderers. This along with busing were the issues I sense that we used to peel off socially conservative Dems in Northern metro areas. I get the sense that in the late 1970s that there was less interest in swinging the South because it was assumed that Jimmy Carter would likely hold his home region for the Democrats.
Abortion with respect to the courts was less of an issue because pro-life groups believed that they were going to amend the Constitution to change that. Pro-life groups pressured Ford, Reagan, and Carter in 1976 and 1980 to support an amendment to the Constitution as opposed to appoint good judges. Only in the early 1980s, when it became clear that there simply weren’t enough votes to do so in the Senate did focus shift to getting good judges to overturn Roe v Wade.
Carter was trying to prove he was a tough guy
Bill S (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 6:31PM EST (link)And now I can, without a doubt, see President Pantywaist trying the same thing. The entire world realizes what a pansy he is. His “let’s all have a group hug and work things out” attitude is going to get a whole lot of Americans killed. Unfortunately, it will probably (again) be the U.S. military who takes the fall for the Gutless Wonder of the West Wing.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
Actually, after so much inaction, I was glad Carter finally at least tried something, but also
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:07PM EST (link)no dem since jfk has really been about a strong defense and a deterrant by obvious will – see precise hour that hostages were liberated. Obama’s weakness is inviting aggression from enemies abroad and their agents in the US, as we speak.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Do You Remember
cactusjack Saturday, April 24th at 7:11PM EST (link)Do you remember all through the very late 1980s and into the 90s, the knee-jerk response the MSM and left had for everything (including homelessness increasing in CA in the 90s) – “it’s Reagan’s fault”? And from then on, everything bad like hurricane Katrina – “it’s Bush’s fault”? Well the right can play that game except it would be the truth this time – all the grief, woe, instability, loss of life, war, agony the US has undergone from the MiddleEast in our times – since 1979 – it’s Carter’s fault, and we ought to say it more often. Here’s why. Those familliar with the MiddleEast tell us Iran – in size, power, population, strategic relevance – is the BIG ENCHILADA. Carter’s disastrous policy towards Iran stemmed from his wanting to be leftie-feel good enlightened and shun dictators. But only those friendly to us. (He cuddled with Ceaucescu and others) Advisors pleaded with him, Mr Carter do not let the Shah fall, you think he’s bad, what replaces him will be worse. Carter didnt lesson, let the Shah fall, and taught the world America does not support its friends, as well as unloosing this modern era of Islamic fundamentalist instability throughout the world we are still fighting. Yes, it all goes back to Jimmy Carter. and it is, his fault.
even more
streiff (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:21PM EST (link)in the summer of 1980 emissaries from Saddam Hussein approached the Carter Administration asking for a green light to invade Iran. They got it.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Cactus, if you watch the biography channel and...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:37PM EST (link)see how they do the drug THUGS of the 80′s they ALWAYS say that Reagan was the reason that all of these poor little black kids just HAD to sell crack to gain something in the world and how Reagan “allowed” the black communities to be over run with drugs by the CIA and blah, blah, blah, they are absolutely PATHETIC and of course are rewriting history to continue their SLANDER of the one President WE have had to actually attempted to put a STOP to the slow slide to TYRANNY that America has been engaged in for too many decades to count!
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And I thought Carter was bad.
Steve Maley (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:34PM EST (link)Carter wanted to erase every vestige of hypocrisy from our foreign relations and in the process set Iran and Zimbabwe down the road to Hades. He also encouraged every thug Castro-wannabe in Latin America. We’re still dealing with his sorry legacy.
I thought Carter was the was the worst ever, and he was, until January 2009.
We’ll be back-filling for this arrogant little thug’s policies for a long, long time. He will have his come-uppence, but when?
When will the fellatory media say “Enough’s enough!”?
When will the moderates join us in taking back the country?
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
I would disagree
JamesSmith130 Saturday, April 24th at 7:48PM EST (link)Carter and Obama are very bad, but I would say clearly that Bill Clinton was the worst ever. The amount of immorality and disgraceful behavior coming out of the Clintons put Carter and Obama to shame.
As disgusting as Clinton was, he wasn't anything compared to Obama, JamesSmith.
janis (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 7:53PM EST (link)Obama is destroying our country in huge chunks by the month. He’s every bit the liar and thug that the Clintons were/are and he’s not the least bit interested in triangulation in order to win again. He’s not planning on leaving anything to chance in that regard and is doing all he can to guarantee a country and an electorate so weak and poor that we won’t have the ability to fight him– or anyone else that threatens us and everyone will.
Obama wins “Most Dangerous Man in America to Date” by a long shot.
Do you honestly think
JamesSmith130 Saturday, April 24th at 9:28PM EST (link)that either Clinton wouldn’t be doing the same kinds of things Obama is doing today? I think it was a question of opportunity not motive, that Clinton never had the opportunity to do the kinds of things that Obama does, because there was no financial sector collapse before he became President.
In addition, I think Clinton was a much more effective thug than Obama is. He was a lot more effective at demonizing conservatives than Obama, one poll in January 1999 showed Clinton with a 73% approval rating. How the heck does someone *increase* his approval rating after being caught perjuring himself and obstructing an investigation of his adulterous behavior? That filth still gets me riled up, even 10 years later.
Like good communists do, Comrade Obama's handlers learned
Achance (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 12:40PM EST (link)from Clinton’s mistakes. You’re right, Bill and Hill cooked up the same goals for transforming America while smoking dope in their dorm rooms in the ’60s and set out to lie and manipulate themselves to power. WJC has yet to adequately explain his trip to the Eastern Bloc while ostensibly at Oxford. HRC’s domineering presence and the healthcare debacle cost them the Congress in ’94 and WJC just settled in to be a philanderer and kleptocrat.
Comrade Obama isn’t going to do that and we should be very anxious about what he might do to try to impose his will on the Country should he actually lose one body of the Congress. It won’t be a triangulation strategy like WJC.
In Vino Veritas
Then we need to cough up the dough to bring O's girlfriend back.
janis (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 12:52PM EST (link)Whatever it takes to keep his mind distracted from tyrannizing us would be a good thing. I’ll pony up some cash for that campaign!
And because he wont do this
JamesSmith130 Sunday, April 25th at 10:31PM EST (link)“It won’t be a triangulation strategy like WJC.”
He also likely will not be reelected like Clinton was.
I'm still not convinced that the mush-minded 52% will abandon the cool Black dude. nt
Achance (Diary) Monday, April 26th at 3:21AM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
let's not get carried away
kyle8 (Diary) Sunday, April 25th at 7:05AM EST (link)The Zero still has a long way to go to be as bad as Jimmeh
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
It was hard from the get-go
John_Rohan (Diary) Saturday, April 24th at 8:02PM EST (link)“The event, itself, was brought on by a series of turf battles, miscalculations, and garden variety incompetence.”
That’s true, but imagine what they were trying to do. Fly into a country on the other side of the world, enter their capital city with a population in the millions, rescue dozen of hostages and fly out again, all using technology from 30 year ago. Even with the best of plans, the chances for success were slim (that’s doesn’t mean that we still shouldn’t have tried however).
My website: The Shield of Achilles
This mission directly resulted in..
Jeff Emanuel (Diary) Monday, April 26th at 10:17AM EST (link)…the creation of Joint Special Operations Command, and of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne). Those, at least, were beneficial developments.
JE
Sean Duffy: From his kitchen table
texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 9:44AM EST (link)Conservative Sean Duffy is going to send David Obey into retirement after 40 years. The NYT is worried.
Listen:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/us/politics/25campaign.html
Roll with Sean:
http://duffyforcongress.com/
Rep Jeb Hensarling on FOX tonight 8 PM Eastern
texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, April 27th at 7:24PM EST (link)Congressman Jeb Hensarling TX CD-5 is scheduled to appear on Bill O’Reilly’s show on Fox News at 7:00 p.m. central. His segment will appear sometime between 7 and 8 pm central. He will be discussing his role on the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, which had its first meeting today.
Jeb’s the real deal. He is the former chair of the conservative Republican Study Group and serves on the Financial Services Committee.
http://hensarling.house.gov/