Michael Mann Beclowns Himself


the face of duplicity

Today Dr. Michael E. Mann, professor of meteorology at Penn State and apparent fraud, takes to the op ed pages of the Washington Post to attempt to defend what might be the most significant scientific fraud since the Piltdown Man from its critics. He does so by attacking the leakers, not answering the allegations, and attacking… wait for it… Sarah Palin.

Full disclosure up front, I’m not a scientist and I don’t pretend to be one on RedState, but what I’m going to do here has nothing to do with science. Rather it is nothing more than defending truth and common decency from a man who has a studied, callous, and reckless disregard for both.

As a recap, back in late November a person or persons made available to God and everybody an immense volume of email and internal documents originating with the Climate Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia. The CRU is the essential locus of the notion of anthropocentric global warming (AGW). Now it is important at this juncture to distinguish the theory of APG from the fact of climate change. Many in the field of phrenology APG tend to deliberately conflate the two when they are very different concepts. No one with even a passing knowledge of European history can deny that climate change happens. During the twelfth and thirteenth centuries Iceland and Greenland exported wheat. Today, not so much. The controversy is not over whether or not the climate is changing, it is and it always has, but over the direction of the change, the degree of the change, the universality of the change, and whether human activity causes or contributes to said change in any meaningful or measurable way.

To say that the leaked documents revealed activities which if carried out in the business world or government would fall under that broad classification called felonies is an understatement. The documents expose the AGW cognoscenti as something between The Heathers and The Sopranos, cooperating with tame reporters to assassinate the character of critics, suppressing inconvenient truths (nyuk, nyuk), corrupting the peer review process and manufacturing data out of whole cloth to move a political rather than scientific agenda forward and, to paraphrase William Jennings Bryant, to press down upon our brow Al Gore and crucify mankind upon a cross of carbon credits, taxes, and poverty.

First, let’s dispense with the idea that the emails and documents in question were stolen or hacked. The correct concept here is that they were leaked by a whistleblower. The overwhelming body of evidence suggests that the documents were gathered as East Anglia University attempted to fend off a request for these exact document under the British equivalent of the Freedom of Information Act. The documents are remarkably free of personal emails, which would not be the case if there was “hacking” involved, and they are neatly organized in folders by subject.

So where Mann and his fellows have made much of the idea that they were “stolen” and “hacked” the fact is that it is much more likely that someone involved in pulling the documents together in anticipation of losing the fight to release them was so offended by what he or she saw that they leaked them. But even if we stipulate that they were “stolen” or “hacked” the documents have been authenticated and therefore their method of delivery into the public domain while upsetting to some clearly falls into the traditions of the Pentagon Papers.

All this aside, Mann makes the predictable defense of the infamous “trick” email, the use of adjusted data, etc. and, in my view, scores at least one own goal. On the subject of using tree-ring data (data that the CRU has since removed from its web site) he makes this bald statement:

In the same e-mail, Jones uses the phrase “hide the decline” in reference to work by tree-ring expert Keith Briffa. Because tree-ring information has been found to correlate well with temperature readings, it is used to plot temperatures going back hundreds of years or more. Briffa described a phenomenon in which the density of wood exhibits an enigmatic decline in response to temperature after about 1960. This decline was the focus of Briffa’s original article, and Briffa was clear that these data should not be used to represent temperatures after 1960. By saying “hide the decline,” Jones meant that a diagram he was producing was not to show those data during the unreliable post-1960 period.

Were violence to common sense a capital crime, this statement alone would see Mann strapped to a post with a cigarette jammed between his lips. What he is saying is that tree ring data correlates closely to temperature before we could measure temperature accurately but it is useless since 1960 when tree ring data shows temperatures to be declining. And “hide the decline” means exactly what those three words would suggest they mean.

As evidence of the purity of the work, Mann dredges up a 2006 Washington Post story:

The National Academy of Sciences reviewed this work in 2006 in a study reported by this newspaper ["Past Few Decades Warmest on Record, Study Confirms," news story, June 23, 2006]. Members of the peer-review panel said that they “saw nothing that spoke . . . of any manipulation” and that the study was “an honest attempt to construct a data analysis procedure.”

Maybe Mann should use some of his grant money to invest in a calendar. While he’s at it he should get someone to add a few more current news reports to his web site. (Hey, Mike, if you need suggestions drop me a line.)

From this non sequitur he goes on to attack former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin by layering silliness upon falsehood:

Palin wrote that Alaska’s climate is changing but referred to “thawing permafrost and retreating sea ice” as “natural, cyclical environmental trends.” In fact, such changes are among the effects scientists predicted would occur as greenhouse gas levels increase. Scientific evidence for the reality of human-caused climate change includes independently replicated data documenting the extent of warming; unprecedented melting of glaciers; rises in global sea levels; increasingly widespread continental drought; and models that predict all of these things but only when human impacts are included. Those same models project far more profound and potentially damaging impacts of climate change if we do not take action to stabilize greenhouse gas levels.

For more on the models, I’d suggest you visit here.

My point here is not to reargue his points. The guys as Watts Up With That have already reduced Mann to a laughing stock, he is currently under investigation by Penn State for scientific misconduct, and the US agencies who have worked with the CRU have received a directive from the Department of Energy to preserve all documents connected with that work in face of pending investigations.

Other than highlighting his duplicity, my concern here is outing Mann as a general asshat who, along with his fellow fabulists, have personally done more to damage science than the Inquisition on its worst day. We are in a period where the left is carrying out an active war on science, suppressing it where it is inconvenient but at the same time manipulating and hiding behind it to forward their agenda. While we have our share of Luddites, they tend to be more focused on things like Darwin than they do in a dramatic and disastrous reordering of the world’s economy.

Mann was perfectly willing to use his position to push a political agenda. He was willing to vilify critics rather than engage them in scientific debate. When confronted with his own misconduct his first impulse is to lie, to divert, and to treat the people whose lives he is trying so desperately to destroy with contempt. If there was ever further evidence needed of his being unsuited to be allowed influence in American society, this op ed effectively closes that debate.


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AGW in Valdez, AK today:

Achance (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 12:16PM EST (link)

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/1060856.html

In Vino Veritas

Wow, John Strang

Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 12:50PM EST (link)

Taught my science classes in Jr. High. I was there for the winter of ’89-90 that he references, and he is correct, it closed that year because of wind (gusts over 100mph) that were blowing around the 3 feet of fresh snow that had fallen the night before and making it impossible to see even a foot in front of your face.

————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.

 
 

BRAVO!

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 12:18PM EST (link)

Climate Science will be a dead letter office for fraudlent hacks and agenda-peddlars until something is done to clean this offal off thuroughfare of scientific discourse. Science, in general, as well as Geophysics in particular, is too vital to our culture and civilization to leave in the hands of men like Michael Mann,

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

 

I don't like him just looking at his picture on the website

ceili_dancer (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 12:19PM EST (link)

He just oozes smugness not to mention that he should be investigated

 

Call him Piltdown Mann

Darin_H (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 12:25PM EST (link)

I thought that the destruction of the man made global warming myth would be swifter, but I do enjoy the agony that they have trying to hold on to a complete fallacy.

A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls

That would be "Mann-made Global Warming"

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 7:24PM EST (link)
 

strongly suggested reading . . .

denniswayne Friday, December 18th at 1:06PM EST (link)

There is a superb piece in this morning Wall Street Journal by Patrick Michaels, in which he discusses the most serious aspect of this travesty, naming Mr. Mann specifically as one of those who worked to put a climate publication out of business in order to suppress critics . . .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598230426037244.html

Sorry, dunno if this requires a subscription. But if someone at RedState has this (and copyright doesn’t prevent an extract), I strongly suggest posting this for the readership here.

great article

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 1:20PM EST (link)

I’m updating with the link

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

I still say...

mdyou (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 1:53PM EST (link)

…that the four one-hundredths of a percent of CO2 in the atmosphere can’t affect climate in any measurable way.

And if liberals care so much, they should all stop breathing to save the planet.

Well...

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 3:05PM EST (link)

If you say it I am utterly convinced. Clearly what you think carries more weight than what thousands upon thousands of climate scientist who have spent their lives studying the subject think. While we are tearing scientists a new one… if the globe was round, we would all clearly fall off. You don’t have to be a physicist with some fancypants ivory tower ideas about gravity to figure that out.

note

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:34PM EST (link)

there aren’t “thousand upon thousands of climate scientists” it is a very small and decidedly third rate academic field.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 

If the globe was round, you wouldn't have to fake

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 7:15PM EST (link)

the observation of a ship disappearing over the horizon from the water line to the sails or the round shape of the lunar eclipse.

You should ponder your phrase “thousands upon thousands of climate scientist who have spent their lives studying the subject.” Hmmn…I can’t see any incentives that might bias the reporting of results, can you?

It is incumbent upon scientists to follow accepted scientific practices. And that means that a scientist submitting a theory should address the rejection of the null hypothesis, which in this case would be that man’s activities do not contribute significantly to the Earth’s climate.

There are four major datasets related to climate science. Shenanigans have been found in two of the four. Why?

No, it is those that assert “The science is settled” that are the flat earthers, seeking to ignore scientific standards. Climate Change as a scientific theory is speculative science at best. “Because I said so” doesn’t cut it. After all, the consensus in the Ptolematic era was that the Earth was at the center of the solar system.

 
 
 

The rightwing war on science and reason continues

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 2:59PM EST (link)

You guys seem to think that you can change reality by changing public opinion. Its like if you can just get enough people to believe that AGW isn’t real then you win. Unfortunately nature doesn’t respond to public opinion. You can get the whole country to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that the problem isn’t there, but that isn’t going to change the reality that the earth is heating up with catastrophic consequences, and man is causing it.

You all are making great hay over the tree-ring trick comment. On the (obviously false) assumption that you just don’t understand the science and that is why you are drawing wrong conclusions (rather than intentionally trying to misinterpret data in order to support what you want to believe), I will explain it to you.

As you probably know, the size of tree rings is an indicator of climate. When trees have a good year, the rings are bigger. A good year might mean among other things, that it is hotter, or wetter, or for some reason there is more CO2. Historically, this was a good measure of climate, but by 1960 scientists were finding that tree ring data was becoming divorced from temperature, ie trees were getting large rings even on cold or dry years. “HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!?” you scream with outrage. The reason for this is because by 1960 the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere were becoming elevated and causing larger growth, thus tree ring data was no longer a reliable indicator of temperature and so in order to factor in this change in the chemistry of the atmosphere, scientists needed to adjust calculations. Fortunately since we have had thermometers since the 1960s we know very well what the temperature has been, so such calculations can be quite accurate.

Now that it has been explained to you, I have no doubt you will stop pretending that climate science is this century’s piltdown man.

Hey Linus, psst. Hide The Decline.

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:04PM EST (link)

You’re absolutely correct, Linus. The truth will always out. Here’s an article from a journal where Dr. Wigley forgot to fire the editors that don’t share his opinions.

http://en.scientificcommons.org/47822430

Structural break models of climatic regime-shifts: claims and forecasts (2009)
Stockwell, David R. B., Cox, Anthony

Abstract
A Chow test for structural breaks in the surface temperature series is used to investigate two common claims about global warming. Quirk (2009) proposed that the increase in Australian temperature from 1910 to the present was largely confined to a regime-shift in the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) between 1976 and 1979. The test finds a step change in both Australian and global temperature trends in 1978 (HadCRU3GL), and in Australian rainfall in 1982 with flat temperatures before and after. Easterling & Wehner (2009) claimed that singling out the apparent flatness in global temperature since 1997 is ‘cherry picking’ to reinforce an arbitrary point of view. On the contrary, we find evidence for a significant change in the temperature series around 1997, corroborated with evidence of a coincident oceanographic regime-shift. We use the trends between these significant change points to generate a forecast of future global temperature under specific assumptions.. Comment: Submitted to the International Journal of Forecasting on 5 July 2009

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

Just to reassure me

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 3:11PM EST (link)

that you understand what you posted, would you mind putting it in your own words. I don’t mean to put you to too much trouble, but I’ve noticed that a common rhetorical technique amongst deniers is to simply post a link to a highly technical article that they don’t actually understand, on the assumption that no one else will understand either and they can claim some sort of default victory.

Thank you.

This arrogant little punk needs the BLAM stick; it's not here for any good reason. nt

Achance (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:14PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

I think Moe should wait

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:16PM EST (link)

Generally when people are having some sort of ecstatic religous experience, they begin speaking in tongues. Let’s at least wait for Linus to do that.

If Linus gets blammed before

Uma Richie (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:30PM EST (link)

you get your fill, just do a search on him. He left a huge trail of hilarity on other websites. I think he is running for liberal blog commenter of the year.

exactly.

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:32PM EST (link)

he’s an expert on health care, too, along with just about any other subject. I guess if your name is “Linus” you’d better develop some sort of competitive advantage.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

I wonder if he has ditched the blanket yet...(nt)

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:41PM EST (link)
 

No, for best 'fail' of a turing test troll

hunter (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 4:23PM EST (link)

Look for ‘Dano’.

hunter

 
 
 
 

Let me put something in MY own words that I completely understand

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:20PM EST (link)

“…in order to factor in this change in the chemistry of the atmosphere, scientists needed to adjust calculations. ”

Let me translate:

“Holy crap. This isn’t turning out to show anything like what we predicted or expected. This means all our little extrapolations from mastadon dung and tree rings are junk. We need some sort of trick to make this all come out OK. Let’s screw with the data, then call it “adjusting our calculations. Yeah…that’s the ticket..”

Thank you...

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 3:25PM EST (link)

For admitting that you don’t have a clue what the link you posted meant. If everyone could be as intellectually honest as you it would be far easier to get to the truth.

Before you go patting yourself on the back for your superior intellect, Linus...

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:39PM EST (link)

You should know that I didn’t post the link. He is Repair Man Jack. I am Jack Savage. Being exact would be too much to expect from an alarmist, though, and I understand that. Good work responding to a layman’s criticism of your post, by the way, which leads me to my point…

You can stand on the street corner and scream “Go Green! The World Is Ending!” until your eyeballs pop out, but the truth is that laypeople like me read statements and explanations like yours and Al Gore’s and Michael Mann’s etc etc etc, and realize that you all are simply full of crap.

Climate change science is very much like astrology now. It may be fun to talk about, but no one with any brains bases their life on it.

Oops

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 3:45PM EST (link)

My apologies for the confusion Jack

No worries

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:46PM EST (link)

Belief in AGW and confusion go hand in hand. We’ve seen it here before.

 
 
 
 
 

just to reassure you...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:21PM EST (link)

even those that aren’t scientists can figure out that the global warming BS is in fact a scheme. Those of us who are skeptics that are “scientists and engineers” question the VV&A of these models and the establishment of a theory based on a hypothesis that is backed up only by a computer model and dubious data. I am still waiting for next years forcast to turn out to be right. Then again I guess you would have been the first to jump on the steady state theorem and blast the big bangers as flat earth types huh?

 

apparently he's a Canadian

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:30PM EST (link)

they don’t study science up there and they don’t have an economy so that makes him an expert on this subject.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 

^^^Notice that Linus doesn't respond to the post^^^

6eorge Jetson (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 7:34PM EST (link)

He attacks the poster.

Were you reading from the Left wing playbook, or do you have it memorized?

 
 

Chow Test Makes Claims of "Denialism" Into Dog Chow.

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:26PM EST (link)

The authors make the statistically bolstered claims that recent temperature trends are not asyncratic and furthermore do not represent “Cherry-Picked” splices atypical of long-term temperature trends. In other words, yes, Dr. Mann, Dr. Jones and Dr. Wigley do have valid reason to hide the decline if they want people to actually buy the crap one reads in an IPCC quadrennial report.

The Chow Test isolates data runs to determine which are exceptional compared to long term trend and which are not exceptional. The test compares the following two hypothesis.

H-null – The data in run Y (Xi,Xi + 1, …, Xn) is pretty much the same stuff as the other data and doesn’t warrant too much further scrutiny.

H-alpha – The data in run Y is asyncratic to the rest of the run and indicates the likelihood of a possible jump discontinuity between the end points of the defind region of interest.

Two sections of climate data from 20th and early 21st century Australian climate data were tested under these hypothesis. The warming of 1976-1979 and the flat trend from 1997. The authors claim the ’76-’79 warming was an asyncratic occurence in synonomy with a PDO (shift in ocenaic currents), whereas as no statistically significant acorrelation from the rest of trend was detected over the range of 1997 to present.

This would suggest that the 76-79 period was exceptional and correlated to an exogenus event outside the general purview of most commonly hypothesized mechanisms of AGW. The 97 to present trend indicated no significant break from the rest of the trend. I hope that leaves you feeling significantly reassured.

If you are anywhere near the current range from Roanoke, VA to New York City, I wish you the best of luck in driving through the 12-28 inches of global warming that the entire region will probably experience int he next 3 days. Be well.

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

 
 

yeah yeah

Darin_H (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:06PM EST (link)

Crosses fingers without the preview button….

A visionary coward says that anger can be power, as long as there’s a victim on TV – Flat Top, Goo Goo Dolls

 

Another government school educated useful idiot heard from. nt

Achance (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:07PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 

THERE ARE NO TROOPS AT THE BAGHDAD AIRPORT

Jack_Savage (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:12PM EST (link)

We will soon strangle the American infidel invaders! This will be the mother of all battles!

Ooops – sorry. Right attitude for the AGW Holy Rollers though, don’t you think?

Next up – how to handle snakes for the sake of the climate….

 

OK, well 'splain me this, oh great Linus:

Steve Maley (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:16PM EST (link)

Exhibit 1.

Item B. Why should legitimate scientists object to having their methodology checked? I thought that’s what “peer review” was all about. (Sorry, I know the whole peer review issue might be a hot button for you, too.)

III. Why do you bother with trying to school The Great Unwashed for whom you have such great disdain?

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

 

actually no

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:25PM EST (link)

Let me take your points one at a time.

Any public relations problem that exists is the making the AGW crowd which has now been shown to have destroyed data they didn’t like, change data in an apparently arbitrary manner, and ignored significant amounts of data that didn’t comport with their preordained outcome. Had their research been carried out in a manner associate with science rather than necromancy or some such this problem wouldn’t exist. However, if they had obeyed the dictates of science there wouldn’t be a crisis as the flimsiness of their position would have been exposed from the beginning.

I am making hay, so to speak, not only over the tree ring data and your explanation shows you don’t have much of a grip on the science either. Or logic. By the way, the computer programmer at CRU agrees with me.

Actually tree rings are a measure of the rate at which trees grow. The rings can vary within the same climatic zone over the same period of time. The problem in your logic is that you can’t really demonstrate that tree rings became divorced at any previous time. Your assertion, absent a whit of proof, of some massive infusion of CO2 into the atmosphere is merely part and parcel of the way you people are twisting science and tying statistical methods to the rack to get an answer you want. And you are totally misrepresenting temperature data since 1960. We don’t even know what the temperature readings were prior as the raw data prior to 1980 have not been preserved.

Anyway. Jones is suspended. Odds are Mann will be disciplined. At least two federal agencies are looking at this. And Copenhagen will be the high water mark of this latest version of witchcraft and dishonest folks, like those flogging this nonsense, can go back to their classrooms and try to convince another generation of feckless undergrads that they know their collective butt from a hot rock.

But I congratulate you on a bold defense of dishonesty, vindictiveness and fraud. Few men would have had the guts to do that. Well played, I’m sure your mother is very proud of you.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Once upon a time I bored a lot of holes in trees.

Achance (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:59PM EST (link)

I spent some time when I was a kid cruising timber, mostly commercial stands of hybrid slash pine in Georgia. Part of the job was using a boring tool to pull out a core so you could check the growth rate.

We’re talking trees from the same seed stock bred to be as uniform as possible; often many acres would have been planted on the same day and of course raised under the same macroclimatic conditions. Superficially, a stand would look uniform, but on close inspection growth rates would be significantly different based on microclimates, shading, proximity to water sources, and with fairly significant differences between those near a watercourse at the bottom of a hillside, those growing on the hillside, and those on the top of that hill, etc.

So, any sampling based on tree rings would have to be based on a large sample and would have to account for microclimatic and other differences.

In Vino Veritas

and that is the problem, Achance

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 4:05PM EST (link)

the high priest of tree rings himself admits that his sample of tree rings is very sparse and according to the emails even he was not comfortable with the way they were being used.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Ice core samples have the same sort of liability.

Achance (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 4:43PM EST (link)

The surest way to melt snow or ice is to make it dirty. Even with the very low sun angles in the polar regions there is enough solar energy to melt ice and snow even with temperatures well below freezing is the ice or snow is darkened so that it will absorb rather than reflect the radiation. The old-time whalers would use lampblack and oil to soften a path out when they became iced in. Anyway, a dry summer that results in a lot of dust being deposition on a nearby glacier or mountain icecap will cause considerable melting. Likewise, and very much on point to the claims of reduced sea ice in the Arctic is the effect of soot and ash from both power generation by the notoriously dirty coal plants in the former East Bloc, China, India, and other developing nations and from forest fires. In the vast taiga areas of Alaska, Canada, and Siberia, a dry summer will produce forest fires that consume millions of acres of trees, darkening the skies for hundreds of miles and depositing ash and soot on all the glaciers, mountain ice caps and the sea ice in the Arctic. So, when you core the ice, you have no way of knowing how much snow fell in any year where there is a significant ash/soot line or even how many years accumulation the ash/soot might have caused to melt.

In Vino Veritas

OMG! Art, fire is destroying the arctic ice cap!

nessa (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 7:36PM EST (link)

We obviously need to ban fire, that won’t have much of an impact on humankind and it will be good for the earth :) /snark

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

Congress should outlaw Wildfires...

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 2:09AM EST (link)

that would solve the Forest problems too

Thanks for the post, it made me laugh :) at first, then only more mad :( as we all know the stupidity that leads Liberals to such stupid policy decisions that do nothing!

Next time we have control – can we please outlaw Liberals from breathing?!?!? That would reduce the CO2 problem they are so worried (falsely) about!

Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
“Liberals, looking to do for? America what they’ve done for? Detroit! which is DESTROY IT!”
“I think, therefore I am Conservative”
“Conservative by choice, Republican by necessity”
“You can lead a Liberal to the Truth/Facts, but you cannot make them THINK!”
“Romney [No, not my first choice] does NOT have a MORMON problem. He has a, far too many Americans; these days; are MORONS problem!”


(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” – a Rush caller (other Quotes)

 
 
 
 
 
 

Rightwing war on science and reason?

RedBeard Friday, December 18th at 3:29PM EST (link)

It would seem that Linus hasn’t been paying much attention, if any, to those who actually ARE trying to suppress science and reason, namely the Al Gores and Michael Manns of the world, together with the entire wealth redistribution mechanism of the UN.

Climategate involves perhaps the worst concerted corruption of the scientific method in recorded history. Only hopeless leftist zealots could argue otherwise.

Turning this around for a moment, let’s assume, just for the sake of argument, that there is a basis for the idea of manmade global warming. Thanks to the scientific cheaters, liars, frauds, and con artists, plus self-enriching carbon entrepreneurs, dictators, thugs, and socialist and communist wealth redistributors, that theory will forever be tarnished. No one with more than two brain cells to rub together will want to take the alarmists seriously after all this has come to light. If you lefties want someone to blame for warring against science, look no farther than your own ranks.

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

 

Yes, yes, the Republican War on Science®!

aesthete (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:52PM EST (link)

Good thing the Democrats don’t have anything like that!! It’s not like pro-choicers supported something as embarrassingly fraudulent as eugenics… umm, well, at least they didn’t fall for the most discredited of all economic forms of organization, social… OK, you guys still believe in that, moving right along… there’s no way the Democrats would have stupid enough to trust the verdict of a Hollywood movie over scientists on nuclear energy… alright, I give up.

Though, to be fair, Republicans still cling to an outdated theory on economics, too… what’s that? Keynesianism *isn’t* the mainstream view in economics, and hasn’t been since the ’70s? Ooch, my bad. Well not to worry, I’m sure you’ll find some way to Blame the Republicans™ using tortured logic and data, much like your climate change heroes.

The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton

 
 

Hello Streiff

Linus_Bern Friday, December 18th at 3:42PM EST (link)

“Your assertion, absent a whit of proof, of some massive infusion of CO2 into the atmosphere is merely part and parcel of the way you people are twisting science and tying statistical methods to the rack to get an answer you want.”

I thought your position was that increased CO2 in the atmosphere had no correlation to rising temperatures, but now you are claiming that there isn’t even an increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere? There is actually a lot of proof that CO2 levels are rising. What they do is compare current levels to measurements taken a decade ago, or two decades ago, or as far back as the chemistry of the atmosphere has been checked. I’m not sure how you can come out and declare that there is not one whiff of proof for something so well documented.

As far as your claim that the raw data prior to 1980 doesn’t exist, that is also a false statement. They may not have kept the compiled data at East Anglia, but the data still exists at the various weather stations where it was gathered. It is unfortunate that East Anglia did not keep all the data they compliled, but they didn’t get every weather station in the world to destroy all data prior to 1980.

The only part of your story that seems accurate on the face of it is where you say you’re not a scientist, and that what you are writing about has nothing to do with science.

wow, a pleasant troll that has lots of words...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:55PM EST (link)

btw, a couple parts per million is not a significant increase, oh and we are not creating/adding metric tons of CO2 into the atmospher we are adding one C for every oxygen molecule of atmosphere that is used in a metabolic procees, combustion, etc! So in 10 parts in million we’ve added 10 Carbon atoms to 10 oxygen molecules. holy crap the sky is falling. BTW, I have been privy to some Soviet studies of the atmosphere that state that the CO2 concentration in USSR in 1970s was at 375 ppm. Why do I need this info, because laser wavelength transmission through the atmosphere is dependent on the concentrations of molecular constituents (H2O, CO2, NH4 etc) and relates to an absorption coefficient. Of course we all do know that pV=nRT, which backs up my assertion that dynamic processes in the atmospher create changes that need to be accounted for. The atmosphere just not incur a even distribution of CO2 throughout th entire atmosphere. You know what you bore me.

That is the problem with the global warming types a dynamic atmosphere with changing variables can be represented by some monotonic graph using only a couple of variables, forcing naturally occuring negative/positive feedbacks to remain constant or conclude they DNE, and leaving out those obvious mechanisms that respond to changing levels of CO2 and solar radition.

Have you ever looked at the numbers?

satchman3 Friday, December 18th at 9:16PM EST (link)

I’ve often wondered that if someone knew the absorption spectrum for CO2 and H2O could they make some back of the envelope calculations of the greenhouse effect.

For example, if we assume that solar irradiation is incident at 0.2 nm or so (maybe shorter and around 600 W/m2) can we estimate the atmospheric absorption of irradiation? Then the surface of the earth re-radiates in the long IR around 10 microns or so. How much of that re-radiation gets absorbed – and what happens to the reflected radiation also at 0.2nm. I don’t really know the pressure-pathlength absorption data but I’m curious if someone skilled in these calculations could do it.

I’ve always suspected that water vapor would have to dominate CO2 in attenuation but I haven’t done my homework to prove it. I do know that water vapor is present in the <40,000 ppm range depending on ambient temperature and humidity so it seems like it should be much much more important.

The calculations would be meaningless...

rbdwiggins (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 9:58PM EST (link)

because the Greenhouse Effect describes a fictitious planetary mechanism that can not exist.

“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

 

yes, I have looked at the number 4 years ago...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 1:28AM EST (link)

and I must say I am a little puzzled by the 0.2 nm are you saying 0.2 nm wavelength or are you saying 200 nm which doesn’t make it to the earths surface?

To your last statement, H2O is a fantastic little molecule and yes the vibration and rotation energy levels of the water molecule are beautiful on par with DF and HF in my opinion and has more absorption bands than CO2.

Here is my problem with CO2, yes it absorbs the 10 micron wavelength but so what? If we assume that the earth when heated by the sun becomes a perfect blackbody radiator the water molecules in the air would absorb more of the radiative emission than CO2. Remember the amount of thermal light emitted from a blackbody rises by a factor of T^4 power. You will notice too that as the temperature of a blackbody increases, the peak spectral portion of the curve would coincide with the H2O absorption bands; therefore the H20 independent of CO2 would be the only factor for increased temperatures.

As you said in the very bottom of your comment when H20 makes up ~40,000 ppm or what I do know is that water makes up anywhere from 0-4% of the atmosphere and CO2 is a miniscule 0.036%. Anyway, you hit the nail on the head the water vapor in the atmosphere has much more direct impact on climatic changes.

One other thing, urban heating does occur. Anywhere large urban areas are built the climate in the region can change, thats not what I dispute, I am just perplexed that the greenhouse effect with CO2 is more popular than my theory of the “Beehive effect” (urban area heating is like a beehive generating heat).

I meant 0.2 microns

satchman3 Saturday, December 19th at 10:21PM EST (link)

I was thinking of UV at 200nm or 0.2 microns and came up with 200 nm.

I did a little more reading on the topic and it seems that there is already plenty CO2 in the atmosphere so that it’s already optically thick in the CO2 absorption bands. Here’s a nice article on the heat transfer issues:
http://brneurosci.org/co2.html

I’m not well read on the issues but it’s interesting to me. I think maybe the proponents of AGW rely on arguments like tipping points which really cannot be proven or disproven until they happen or don’t.

 
 
 
 

Hello "Linus"

streiff (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 3:55PM EST (link)

actually reading comprehension is your friend.

No, there are inferences that the CO2 level has varied wildly over time and, using the same metrics used by reputable climatologists, some of the highest levels of CO2 happen before the industrial age. Your portrayal of them as some kind of uniform progression is just wrong as you probably know.

Linus, I only rarely engage a pathological liar on this list. Most people at least assume that because I’m on the internet that I have access to the internet. The data used by the CRU for their studies was destroyed. Weather stations, by policy, don’t archive their own data for any substantial period of time. They don’t have the staff or facilities. You undoubtedly know that, too, as it is on the internet.

So with that, I must bid you a fond adieu. No one here minds an argument, but honesty is the price of admission. And if you are going to lie to us we demand that you give us the respect and common courtesy of a plausible, well thought out, believable lie.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 

Linus, your denial is just a stage

hunter (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 4:18PM EST (link)

of mourning.
You will be OK, with time.

hunter

 
 

He is walking like a fraud, acting like a fraud

hunter (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 4:16PM EST (link)

And my bet is he is a fraud.
Notice that in the leaked e-mails none of these guys are talking abouthow great their evidence is.
None of them are talking about how they need to get their story out.
Instead they are covering, dissembling, distracting and defrauding.
Mann’s op-ed is more of the same.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may be climate fraud.

hunter

 

Lysenko!

Stan(ley) Pruss (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 5:22PM EST (link)

AGW isn’t a unique scientific fraud. When i was in college, the Soviet Union was trying to recover from Lysenko. Google or Wiki it. The great thing about science is that the truth comes out in the end. In a free world you can’t subvert & suppress all scientists. AGW did a pretty good job for a couple decades, but as the predictions don’t come to pass, the theories fail.

 

Russians call shenanigans on the CRU's use of Russian data

Finrod (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 8:21PM EST (link)

The Russians are making sure to not let up on ‘Climategate’; this report from the Daily Telegraph about a Russian newsrelease is pretty devastating:

Climategate has already affected Russia. On Tuesday, the Moscow-based Institute of Economic Analysis (IEA) issued a report claiming that the Hadley Center for Climate Change based at the headquarters of the British Meteorological Office in Exeter (Devon, England) had probably tampered with Russian-climate data.

The IEA believes that Russian meteorological-station data did not substantiate the anthropogenic global-warming theory. Analysts say Russian meteorological stations cover most of the country’s territory, and that the Hadley Center had used data submitted by only 25% of such stations in its reports. Over 40% of Russian territory was not included in global-temperature calculations for some other reasons, rather than the lack of meteorological stations and observations.

The data of stations located in areas not listed in the Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature UK (HadCRUT) survey often does not show any substantial warming in the late 20th century and the early 21st century.

The HadCRUT database includes specific stations providing incomplete data and highlighting the global-warming process, rather than stations facilitating uninterrupted observations.

Can you say “cherry-picking”, boys and girls? I knew you could.

It goes on and gets better:

IEA analysts say climatologists use the data of stations located in large populated centers that are influenced by the urban-warming effect more frequently than the correct data of remote stations.

The scale of global warming was exaggerated due to temperature distortions for Russia accounting for 12.5% of the world’s land mass. The IEA said it was necessary to recalculate all global-temperature data in order to assess the scale of such exaggeration.

Global-temperature data will have to be modified if similar climate-date procedures have been used from other national data because the calculations used by COP15 analysts, including financial calculations, are based on HadCRUT research.

In other words, it’s likely that all the global data is similarly corrupted. One commentator notes:

The crux of the argument is that the CRU cherry picked data following the same methods that have been done everywhere else. They ignored data covering 40% of Russia and chose data that showed a warming trend over statistically preferable alternatives when available. They ignored completeness of data, preferred urban data, strongly preferred data from stations that relocated, ignored length of data set.

On the final page, there is a chart that shows that CRU’s selective use of 25% of the data created 0.64C more warming than simply using all of the raw data would have done. The complete set of data show 1.4C rise since 1860, the CRU set shows 2.06C rise over the same period.

If anyone reads Russian, there’s a link to the iea.ru report at the end of the article.

Let’s get down to brass tacks here. How much for the ape?

 

With that William Jennings Bryan Reference…

ntrepid (Diary) Friday, December 18th at 11:47PM EST (link)

…I’ll toss in the observation that Al Gore sure seems hell bent on acting out the modernized character of Matthew Harrison Brady. As with the fictional character, Mr. Gore thrice rejected for the Presidency – 1988, 1999 (when the Senate refused to do their job), and 2000 – seems driven towards a very public flameout at the altar of his chosen faith. Alas, Mr. Brady had much more depth.

As a bonus to this unsolicited comment, I’ll also toss in the following comment to a 2007 pilgrim diary referring to Mr. Gore as “Possibly the Laziest Mind in Modern American Politics” (1):
“So the common myth goes…the environment is THE issue most important to Mr. Gore for which he long ago chose Global Warming as his vehicle to save us from ourselves.”
“It simply amazes me (not really) that this Envirosavior has done so very little to truly educate himself about the real science behind his issue. He’s been verifiably underemployed since January 1993 – except for his 2000 run for office – so even at a slow, self-paced, night school-like course load he could have several related technical degrees by now. All kidding aside, at the very least he has been in a position to command access to THE REAL SCIENCE COMMUNITY and could have compiled quite an impressive informal education in the climate field. Unfortunately, he has chosen the road most traveled and ended up in the Hollywood spotlight. (…and triggered a long awaited backlash by real scientists.)”
“I can only explain his last 15 years as unserious and intellectually lazy. The man who robotically passed on the planted phrase “no controlling legal authority” is obviously not a thinker. Yet, I so do hope he makes things interesting for the other side with a big announcement later this year.”

The announcement didn’t come but the current flameout will more than make up for that disappointment.

Ntrepid
Proud Member for 5 Years and 3 Month

(1)http://www.redstate.com/blogs/pilgrim/2007/jul/01/gore_vs_mother_nature_mother_nature_wins

“Everybody has an agenda. Except for me.” – Michael Crichton, State of Fear.

 

Streiff, don't worry about having

realskinny (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 12:59AM EST (link)

nothing to do with science. AGW doesn’t have anything to do with science either.

 

Site rules

Jeff Walden (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 1:09AM EST (link)

Other than highlighting his duplicity, my concern here is outing Mann as a general asshat who, along with his fellow fabulists, have personally done more to damage science than the Inquisition on its worst day.

…language?

 

The lone tree expounded exaggeration...

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 1:26AM EST (link)

like with some other lone bone, or lone set of bones, that may actually only represent a ONE TIME freak of Nature and Liberals pegging it as the DEFINITIVE PROOF of the missing links in Evolution or the like….. Of course, it can be more than one or two occurrances, but when where it doesn’t occur several times it is indeed just A FREAK OF NATURE not a natural progression as they try to use it to extrapolate their “Theories!”

Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
“Liberals, looking to do for? America what they’ve done for? Detroit! which is DESTROY IT!”
“I think, therefore I am Conservative”
“Conservative by choice, Republican by necessity”
“You can lead a Liberal to the Truth/Facts, but you cannot make them THINK!”
“Romney [No, not my first choice] does NOT have a MORMON problem. He has a, far too many Americans; these days; are MORONS problem!”


(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” – a Rush caller (other Quotes)

But the lone tree workd so well with the lone Antarctica thermometer. nt

nessa (Diary) Saturday, December 19th at 1:59AM EST (link)

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Contributor to Unified Patriots

teh twitter

"Star Child" skull

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Friday, December 25th at 3:05PM EST (link)

(of UFO-ology* and not a “KISS” reference ;-) lol) is one that comes to my mind (but could relate to many different sets of bones used as “Evolution” scale) as very indicative of how what people (especially Libs looking to discredit (even those they supposedly belong) Religions) stretch distortions due to disease or just one-off (or otherwise rare) “freaks of nature” (hate to put it that way, but it is a common phrase) into some “Missing Link” “proof” in their Theories

*side-note: UFO-ology and the issue of “Life” on other planets not necessarily one and the same. Faiths do NOT exclude the possibility, as God created the Race of Angels and the Human-Race, just because God (through whatever you choose as your Religious text) did NOT tell us of others (what makes some people so egotistical to think that God owed it to tell us everything?!?!?) doesn’t exclude the possibility. Many reject because others (Libs) use it as a distraction that Religion is just a confusion of UFO-ology. NOT to try and get those discussions going again (yes, there was once a long discussion here at RedState – probably more than once, but once I recall and mostly avoided and it is not this that is all that popped up just now).

Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
“Liberals, looking to do for? America what they’ve done for? Detroit! which is DESTROY IT!”
“I think, therefore I am Conservative”
“Conservative by choice, Republican by necessity”
“You can lead a Liberal to the Truth/Facts, but you cannot make them THINK!”
“Romney [No, not my first choice] does NOT have a MORMON problem. He has a, far too many Americans; these days; are MORONS problem!”


(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” – a Rush caller (other Quotes)