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	<title>Comments on: Common Sense Outlawed in Indiana</title>
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		<title>By: philforest</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>philforest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re going to realize that prosecutors, as well as defense attorneys, are made different by a bunch of things. As a prosecutor, you will have the ability to drop the case against your accused if you decide you can&#039;t win the case. The defense attorney doesn&#039;t have that option, and he/she&#039;s committed to defending the case, even if he/she knows the client is guilty.

     Becoming a prosecutor is, I think, a cop-out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re going to realize that prosecutors, as well as defense attorneys, are made different by a bunch of things. As a prosecutor, you will have the ability to drop the case against your accused if you decide you can&#8217;t win the case. The defense attorney doesn&#8217;t have that option, and he/she&#8217;s committed to defending the case, even if he/she knows the client is guilty.</p>
<p>     Becoming a prosecutor is, I think, a cop-out.</p>
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		<title>By: claims1</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2470</link>
		<dc:creator>claims1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2470</guid>
		<description>Being a Georgia native sure puts me in the category of &quot;don&#039;t throw stones&quot;, but after reading this story, my first thought was that oft-repeated, but true, expression &quot; YOU JUST CAN&#039;T FIX STUPID&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a Georgia native sure puts me in the category of &#8220;don&#8217;t throw stones&#8221;, but after reading this story, my first thought was that oft-repeated, but true, expression &#8221; YOU JUST CAN&#8217;T FIX STUPID&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2469</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2469</guid>
		<description>However, I am not surprised.  It IS Europe, after all.  They seem to like controlling everything you do every minute you do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, I am not surprised.  It IS Europe, after all.  They seem to like controlling everything you do every minute you do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2468</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2468</guid>
		<description>And I was trying to exclude him from &quot;We&quot; and bring the thread a little bit more on track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I was trying to exclude him from &#8220;We&#8221; and bring the thread a little bit more on track.</p>
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		<title>By: live2eng</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2467</link>
		<dc:creator>live2eng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2467</guid>
		<description>The root CAUSE of this problem is in the flawed thinking of the lawmakers in the first place which allowed the flowed execution of it.  The lawmaker made a certain amount unlawful to purchase in the flowed hope that unlawful use would be stopped.

What would be more effective, as stated by some here, would be to monitor sales above this level.  Perhaps have a person placed on a list, once their purchase amounts exceeded this level.  At that point they could be mailed a notice of being listed with a return post card with space to explain the purchases.  This could also list the dangers and consequences of improper use.

Meth cookers would avoid such things like cockroaches avoid light, except the dumb ones who would rack up post cards.  It would also make Grandma think twice about keeping strong cold medicines for common colds or in anticipation of colds, for the grandkids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The root CAUSE of this problem is in the flawed thinking of the lawmakers in the first place which allowed the flowed execution of it.  The lawmaker made a certain amount unlawful to purchase in the flowed hope that unlawful use would be stopped.</p>
<p>What would be more effective, as stated by some here, would be to monitor sales above this level.  Perhaps have a person placed on a list, once their purchase amounts exceeded this level.  At that point they could be mailed a notice of being listed with a return post card with space to explain the purchases.  This could also list the dangers and consequences of improper use.</p>
<p>Meth cookers would avoid such things like cockroaches avoid light, except the dumb ones who would rack up post cards.  It would also make Grandma think twice about keeping strong cold medicines for common colds or in anticipation of colds, for the grandkids.</p>
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		<title>By: astrolite</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2466</link>
		<dc:creator>astrolite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2466</guid>
		<description>The police want to see the prescriptions?  First = none required for cold medicine!    Second=  You give them to the druggist, and he keeps them----he doesn&#039;t give them back!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The police want to see the prescriptions?  First = none required for cold medicine!    Second=  You give them to the druggist, and he keeps them&#8212;-he doesn&#8217;t give them back!</p>
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		<title>By: texasjay</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2465</link>
		<dc:creator>texasjay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2465</guid>
		<description>She had to &quot;knowingly or intentionally&quot; violate that law.  I wonder if she even knew the quantity of ephedrine in those two products?  This would be a fun case to defend.

This is a stupid law.  You can&#039;t tell me that in a cold and flu season there isn&#039;t a potential to purchase more than one product, especially if there is more than one person in the house, and there are adults and children.

The record check component written into the statute should be setting off alarms, too, for much the same reason that the Patriot Act is a bad idea: search and seizure and self imcrimination issues are called into play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She had to &#8220;knowingly or intentionally&#8221; violate that law.  I wonder if she even knew the quantity of ephedrine in those two products?  This would be a fun case to defend.</p>
<p>This is a stupid law.  You can&#8217;t tell me that in a cold and flu season there isn&#8217;t a potential to purchase more than one product, especially if there is more than one person in the house, and there are adults and children.</p>
<p>The record check component written into the statute should be setting off alarms, too, for much the same reason that the Patriot Act is a bad idea: search and seizure and self imcrimination issues are called into play.</p>
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		<title>By: texasjay</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2464</link>
		<dc:creator>texasjay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2464</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but having been a prosecuting attorney [not in Indiana], I would have bitch-slapped the cops for wasting my time with this one.

And now I have to go look up that law to see what the elements are.  Thanks heaps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but having been a prosecuting attorney [not in Indiana], I would have bitch-slapped the cops for wasting my time with this one.</p>
<p>And now I have to go look up that law to see what the elements are.  Thanks heaps.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Haynes</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2463</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2463</guid>
		<description>There is nobody trying to use any reasonable amount of common sense, and that&#039;s why these sort of decisions about whether to pursue charges should be handled, for lack of a better word, judiciously.  

But the prosecutor saying that all he could do is enforce the law...that&#039;s a B.S. cop-out.  Prosecutors, no matter the jurisdiction, have a tremendous amount of leeway to decide what cases they will and will not prosecute.  (That&#039;s actually one of the reasons that, when I finish up law school, I would pick prosecution over defense if I go into criminal law)  The only boss they are truly accountable to are the people of the jurisdiction, and prosecutors are elected because the people trust that they will use their wisdom, experience, and education and make the best calls for the jurisdiction.  For their own sake, let&#039;s hope the people of Vermillion County take that under consideration at this guy&#039;s next &quot;performance review&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nobody trying to use any reasonable amount of common sense, and that&#8217;s why these sort of decisions about whether to pursue charges should be handled, for lack of a better word, judiciously.  </p>
<p>But the prosecutor saying that all he could do is enforce the law&#8230;that&#8217;s a B.S. cop-out.  Prosecutors, no matter the jurisdiction, have a tremendous amount of leeway to decide what cases they will and will not prosecute.  (That&#8217;s actually one of the reasons that, when I finish up law school, I would pick prosecution over defense if I go into criminal law)  The only boss they are truly accountable to are the people of the jurisdiction, and prosecutors are elected because the people trust that they will use their wisdom, experience, and education and make the best calls for the jurisdiction.  For their own sake, let&#8217;s hope the people of Vermillion County take that under consideration at this guy&#8217;s next &#8220;performance review&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeG</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2462</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2462</guid>
		<description>Stupid, just plain stupid..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid, just plain stupid..</p>
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		<title>By: JoeG</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2461</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2461</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a real pain in the keister here because Oregon requires a prescription to get pseudo-ephedrine.

The labs are GONE.  No reduction in meth, but the labs have pretty well disappeared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a real pain in the keister here because Oregon requires a prescription to get pseudo-ephedrine.</p>
<p>The labs are GONE.  No reduction in meth, but the labs have pretty well disappeared.</p>
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		<title>By: ocleverone</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2460</link>
		<dc:creator>ocleverone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2460</guid>
		<description>It is the youngest of our society.

You talk about prohibition, I offer a staggering increase of bing drinking by high schoolers, college students and young adults.  The statistics are not on the decline.

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/quickstats/binge_drinking.htm

You make is sound like legalizing this drug is no big whoop - well it is.  You see, you legalize this and you begin a slippery slope of &quot;it&#039;s okay, it&#039;s legal&quot;.  Those who have criminal tendencies have more of open door to meth and those people prey on young people.  Being a Mother of younger kids, I can darn well assure you that I don&#039;t want to take a chance of your shakey premise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the youngest of our society.</p>
<p>You talk about prohibition, I offer a staggering increase of bing drinking by high schoolers, college students and young adults.  The statistics are not on the decline.</p>
<p>http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/quickstats/binge_drinking.htm</p>
<p>You make is sound like legalizing this drug is no big whoop &#8211; well it is.  You see, you legalize this and you begin a slippery slope of &#8220;it&#8217;s okay, it&#8217;s legal&#8221;.  Those who have criminal tendencies have more of open door to meth and those people prey on young people.  Being a Mother of younger kids, I can darn well assure you that I don&#8217;t want to take a chance of your shakey premise.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Mullins</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2459</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Mullins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2459</guid>
		<description>but a substance that&#039;s highly regulated in Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but a substance that&#8217;s highly regulated in Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Mullins</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2458</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Mullins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2458</guid>
		<description>is highly regulated in Europe as well. It&#039;s no accident that the bill that the congress a few years back was similar to the one in Europe. So the state law in Indiana is similar to the one passed by congress some years back. It&#039;s fairly much the same nationwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is highly regulated in Europe as well. It&#8217;s no accident that the bill that the congress a few years back was similar to the one in Europe. So the state law in Indiana is similar to the one passed by congress some years back. It&#8217;s fairly much the same nationwide.</p>
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		<title>By: monstermom</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2457</link>
		<dc:creator>monstermom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2457</guid>
		<description>But I&#039;ve run into the same problem, though I&#039;ve found a workaround that keeps me out of handcuffs.  

I have allergies and my Dr proscribes Zyrtec-D.  You can&#039;t buy a full 30 day supply of Zyrtec -D because it exceeds the maximum allowable.  So you have to buy it in 15 day packs. 

When My kids get colds I given them plain old Sudafed.  But, because I have to buy Zyrtec-D for myself, I can&#039;t buy Sudafed for them.  

So I just make a regular habit of buying Sudafed.  Since I buy Zyrtec-D every two weeks in the between weeks I buy a box of Sudafed and  I make sure I have at least one full box of 1 week of Sudafed on hand.

Yes, it&#039;s a pain in the butt.  Yes, it&#039;s probably illegal or pretty darn close.  Yes, it means I can&#039;t buy the medicine I need when I need it.  Yes, I hope to G-d the police aren&#039;t monitoring this forum......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I&#8217;ve run into the same problem, though I&#8217;ve found a workaround that keeps me out of handcuffs.  </p>
<p>I have allergies and my Dr proscribes Zyrtec-D.  You can&#8217;t buy a full 30 day supply of Zyrtec -D because it exceeds the maximum allowable.  So you have to buy it in 15 day packs. </p>
<p>When My kids get colds I given them plain old Sudafed.  But, because I have to buy Zyrtec-D for myself, I can&#8217;t buy Sudafed for them.  </p>
<p>So I just make a regular habit of buying Sudafed.  Since I buy Zyrtec-D every two weeks in the between weeks I buy a box of Sudafed and  I make sure I have at least one full box of 1 week of Sudafed on hand.</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s a pain in the butt.  Yes, it&#8217;s probably illegal or pretty darn close.  Yes, it means I can&#8217;t buy the medicine I need when I need it.  Yes, I hope to G-d the police aren&#8217;t monitoring this forum&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Streiff</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2456</link>
		<dc:creator>Streiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2456</guid>
		<description>and I think I made that clear in the post.

If they think grandma is a threat, and I don&#039;t automatically exclude grandmothers from being capable of criminal behavior, why didn&#039;t they monitor purchases over several months and slam her for a felony? I think everyone knows the reason for that.

Having worked in bureaucracies of one kind or another for most of my life I&#039;d be willing to bet a lot of money that they&#039;re simply playing a game with their statistics. What they don&#039;t really comprehend is that people who vote really don&#039;t like this kind of nonsense and it could result in substantial limitations on their powers in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and I think I made that clear in the post.</p>
<p>If they think grandma is a threat, and I don&#8217;t automatically exclude grandmothers from being capable of criminal behavior, why didn&#8217;t they monitor purchases over several months and slam her for a felony? I think everyone knows the reason for that.</p>
<p>Having worked in bureaucracies of one kind or another for most of my life I&#8217;d be willing to bet a lot of money that they&#8217;re simply playing a game with their statistics. What they don&#8217;t really comprehend is that people who vote really don&#8217;t like this kind of nonsense and it could result in substantial limitations on their powers in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Lammo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2455</link>
		<dc:creator>Lammo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2455</guid>
		<description>ticked off to get that assignment.  I agree with you that this particualr arrest/prosecution is beyond a stretch.  I think I&#039;ve said as much in other comments on this thread.  However, I believe that the laws putting restrictions on pseudo purchases have had an impact on local labs and that they are valid for public safety purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ticked off to get that assignment.  I agree with you that this particualr arrest/prosecution is beyond a stretch.  I think I&#8217;ve said as much in other comments on this thread.  However, I believe that the laws putting restrictions on pseudo purchases have had an impact on local labs and that they are valid for public safety purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: Streiff</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2454</link>
		<dc:creator>Streiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2454</guid>
		<description>under, as you say, ideal conditions.

the manuals I’ve seen indicate that it takes 6 pounds of chemicals — including pseudophedrine — to make 1 pound of meth.

But the fact is that you aren’t going to acquire pseudophedrine in 0.6 gram increments if you are interested in commercial quantities and it would take a fairly sophisticated lab to process 0.6 grams as a stand alone quantity.

I think we all know what is going on here. They have some poor schmoe adding up sales receipts and they’re issuing arrest warrants for everyone who exceeds the 3g per 7 day purchase. What is notable in the story is that they don’t claim to have busted anyone really involved in manufacturing meth under their system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>under, as you say, ideal conditions.</p>
<p>the manuals I’ve seen indicate that it takes 6 pounds of chemicals — including pseudophedrine — to make 1 pound of meth.</p>
<p>But the fact is that you aren’t going to acquire pseudophedrine in 0.6 gram increments if you are interested in commercial quantities and it would take a fairly sophisticated lab to process 0.6 grams as a stand alone quantity.</p>
<p>I think we all know what is going on here. They have some poor schmoe adding up sales receipts and they’re issuing arrest warrants for everyone who exceeds the 3g per 7 day purchase. What is notable in the story is that they don’t claim to have busted anyone really involved in manufacturing meth under their system.</p>
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		<title>By: RoguePolitics</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2452</link>
		<dc:creator>RoguePolitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2452</guid>
		<description>I went through a bunch in the last post but really it is like a pro and con list.

Organized crime is one item on the con side of the list.
So is funding the Taliban.
So is increased drug use. (yes it might not fall off after but it definitely grew during the drug war)
Grandma getting arrested.
Other crime being ignored.
It&#039;s not constitutional

About the only thing in the pro side of the list is good intentions.

Good intentions is a worse reason than organized crime. That is why liberals ostensibly do everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went through a bunch in the last post but really it is like a pro and con list.</p>
<p>Organized crime is one item on the con side of the list.<br />
So is funding the Taliban.<br />
So is increased drug use. (yes it might not fall off after but it definitely grew during the drug war)<br />
Grandma getting arrested.<br />
Other crime being ignored.<br />
It&#8217;s not constitutional</p>
<p>About the only thing in the pro side of the list is good intentions.</p>
<p>Good intentions is a worse reason than organized crime. That is why liberals ostensibly do everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Lammo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/09/29/common-sense-outlawed-in-indiana/#comment-2451</link>
		<dc:creator>Lammo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/streiff/?p=307#comment-2451</guid>
		<description>in training at the State Patrol Fire Academy.  Spread out over a week we (25 cops, 5 firefighters, 2 prosecutors and 1 lab rat) did all of the stages under controlled, safe conditions.  Final cook was done in full Tyvek suits, duct taped seams and zippers, double gloved, full face mask and air tank.  One group did their final cook in 35 minutes!

No, we did not sample the product.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in training at the State Patrol Fire Academy.  Spread out over a week we (25 cops, 5 firefighters, 2 prosecutors and 1 lab rat) did all of the stages under controlled, safe conditions.  Final cook was done in full Tyvek suits, duct taped seams and zippers, double gloved, full face mask and air tank.  One group did their final cook in 35 minutes!</p>
<p>No, we did not sample the product.  <img src='http://www.redstate.com/streiff/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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