Thoughts on Panetta at CIA


Let me say up front that I don’t have a problem with Barack Obama’s nomination of long time Clinton loyalist and former California congressman Leon Panetta to head the Central Intelligence Agency.

The two biggest dings against Panetta are that 1) Dianne Feinstein and Jay Rockefeller have their panties knotted over their not being consulted and 2) Panetta is not an intelligence professional.

I think both these objections are superficial though Panetta’s nomination is giving us a glimpse at what we can expect of the policy direction of the new administration.

The least serious objection is Mr. Panetta’s resume. When one looks at the history of the CIA and the directors there is really no evidence that intelligence professionals perform any better than your average charwoman. I’d like to note a few of the professionals and what they’re remembered for:

Roscoe Hillenkoetter. Missed the North Korean invasion of South Korea.
Allen W. Dulles. Bay of Pigs
William Colby. Missed the Yom Kippur War.
Stansfield Turner. Missed the overthow of the Shah.
George Tenet. Missed Pakistan’s nuclear test, India’s nuclear test, and, of course, 9/11.

This is not to say that the non-intelligence directors have covered themselves in glory. But glory may not even be a possibility here, While each of these director’s legacies has been tarnished by their failures, let’s not forget that all these failures have one common theme. They come from the same agency that a mere two years before the collapse of the Soviet Union was estimating that Soviet GDP would outstrip that of the US in 10 years. My colleague Warner Todd Huston has the Forrest Gump part right, but it doesn’t need paraphrasing.

It is worth noting that the campus of the Central Intelligence Agency at Langley, VA is named after a non-intelligence professional and former Congressman who many said did not have the background for the job.
The fact that Senators Rockefeller and Feinstein are dissatisfied is unsurprising. The weren’t consulted and they are miffed. They are also miffed for another reason. Panetta understands Congress and he has strong ties to Hillary Clinton, the Secretary of State designee. They would perfer an outsider for the position, someone who would be more malleable. Panetta presents a huge problem for the oversight committees in that he has no reason to fear them and has owes his position to a center of power that is not responsive to their whims.

When one looks at presidential appointments a theme follows. That tends to be that they pick strong figures to head areas where they don’t plan to concentrate and weaker figures, outsiders, to areas where they plan to focus their efforts. Bill Clinton appointed what was considered to be a strong defense and foreign policy team because he had pledged to focus on the economy “like a laser beam.” Les Aspin turned out to be a less than inspired choice at Defense but he was perceived as being someone who could produce the Peace Dividend. When George W. Bush took office the same pattern held because Bush was planning to focus on domestic, specifically education, policy.

I think we see the same shaping up with the Obama administration and from his picks one would say that he is going to focus on energy and environmental policy.

I’m not impressed by the idea that one hires heads of executive branch agencies as if one were hiring a mid-level manager. Political acumen and good management skills are much more important that technical expertise which should exist by the boatload in the agency. In the final analysis, Panetta is a fixer. Panetta is a signal that Obama doesn’t want surprises and has hired someone to keep the CIA out of the news.


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With Respect...

tsquare (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 10:34AM EST (link)

You are 100% wrong on Panetta. Panetta is being brought in to the CIA not to ‘fix’ it but to gut it.

Since 9/11 the CIA has been growing back into a robust group of field agents and analysts focused on the mission of never letting 9/11 happen again. While the rules have NOT been ‘by any means necessary’ the CIA was given permission to use some means and methods that ‘the left’ was uncomfortable with.

It doesn’t help that some of this attention was given to those on the left and their fellow travelers.

Obama’s ‘mandate’ and Panetta’s mission is to end all this, and go back to the Frank Church / Bill Clinton vision of the CIA

Toothless…

If you can find a place

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 10:54AM EST (link)

where I say Panetta is being brought in to “fix” the CIA I’ll kiss your butt and give you an hour to draw a crowd.

I simply do not say, infer, or even believe that to be the case.

The CIA, since 9/11, has proven itself to be helpless inept (the kidnapping in Italy, for example) and at war with the foreign policy of the administration. The CIA has actively worked against the Iraq mission, they studiously leaked intel reports for maximum effect, and reported on the situation in Iraq about as accurately as they did on the Soviet Union.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Your statement about the CIA's behavior is..

Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:09AM EST (link)

Your statement about the CIA’s behavior is 100% correct. The Bush
administration should have cleaned house there and at State. But
Panetta’s appointment SHOULD concern people because as bad as
the CIA’s actions have been it will be worse under Panetta.

I guess it was your saying ” Let me say up front that I don’t have a problem with Barack Obama’s nomination of long time Clinton loyalist and former California congressman Leon Panetta to head the Central Intelligence Agency.” that threw me.
I guess since I have a problem with the entire Obama Administration
it stands to reason I wouldn’t like the Panetta appointment. His appointment is even more upsetting given the need the CIA has for a strong leader with an intelligence background.

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

though I haven't posted a lot for the past year

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:16AM EST (link)

I think most know I was not an Obama supporter.

1. Panetta is not likely to be beholden to either the Senate or House Select Committees on Intelligence.

2. I’m not sure of his loyalty to Obama given his history.

3. We lost the election and in principle I think a president should get his nominees.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

I knew I read it

tsquare (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:35AM EST (link)

“Panetta is a fixer”

Last paragraph…

Did I mis-understand?

a fixer

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:24PM EST (link)

doesn’t necessarily fix things.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

He is being brought in the "fix" it - as BHO defines fix.

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:39AM EST (link)

I will guarantee you that there won’t be any leaks or sabotage from the CIA in a BHO Administration. I don’t know if the GWB Administration even bothered to put any of their own people below the very top levels of the Agency, but I’ll guarantee you that they’ll all be fired within seconds of BHO’s hand coming off the Bible and everyone in that Agency that has ever had a Republican thought will have a laser dot on their forehead.

In Vino Veritas

bingo

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:24PM EST (link)

no leaks, no dissenting reports, lockstep with the administration.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

I just want to live long enough to be a COS

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:43PM EST (link)

to a US Secretary or to be a WH Special Assistant. If my boss has any guts at all or will just settle for plausible deniability, I’ll give America some first class career funerals!

In Vino Veritas

Chainsaw consultants

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:07PM EST (link)

We call them in the IT world. And Washington needs an army of them. Unlikely to happen anywhere but DOD under Bambi though.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

Oh, it'll happen,

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:49PM EST (link)

it just want be the sort of reorganization we’d want or that the Agency needs. They’ll vett for ideological purity and proper patronage all the way down to the clerks.

My goal on the other hand would be to make lots of smoke and noise and leave lots of empty chairs. It is simply amazing what a couple of suits from HQ showing up and making people disappear does for morale.

In Vino Veritas

Exactly

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 6:21PM EST (link)

Empty chairs are good. I like that, and it would be highly effective.

Empty Cabinet chairs are better (in an alternate universe in which conservatives are able to wrest control away from the current crop of Marxists). I would like to find whole bureaucracies, and lots of them, wake up one morning and find themselves “disappeared”.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

You don't have a problem with Panetta?

Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 10:59AM EST (link)

I don’t understand that statement Streiff. Panetta would basically ruin
the intelligence capabilities of the CIA at a time when arguably they
are needed the most. The man has wanted to cut and hamstring the CIA at every turn. We can also make a point that the head of the CIA
should NOT be a political being but should be at the top of his game
in the intelligence community. We need someone who can hit the ground running not someone who will have “learn” the job.

Everyone claims the CIA didn’t connect the “dots” prior to 9/11, Panetta wouldn’t know a dot if it slapped him in the face. The damage that’s going to be done to our intelligence community and military by this administration is truly scary.

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

let me elaborate

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:12AM EST (link)

No agency head ever set out to cut his own agency. If you are a fan of CIA, you should be rejoicing in Panetta’s nomination because he has influence in the administration that will protect and grow the CIA. Cap Weinberger was famous for cutting Defense budgets while heading OMB. He used the same knowledge and influence to grow Defense under Reagan.

The head of all agencies is a political job. I don’t like “technocrats” and I don’t believe government should be run by them. George HW Bush was head of the RNC when nominated to be CIA director. There are enough experts in the agency, the CIA needs someone who can get Administration support. For all the love affair with Kappes, he’s one of the guys who was in a senior position during the Clinton years and did diddlysquat. He was a leader of the little Kabal that got rid of Porter Goss.

I don’t think the CIA is capable of connecting the dots and so I fail to see why a certified incompetent from within is better than someone who can’t do worse than the professionals.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

I'm sorry that you are so naive

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:28AM EST (link)

but I would suggest learning a little more about the Intelligence Community before commenting on an issue this important. This is not a typical gov’t agency. This isn’t the Secretary of Housing or Dep’t of Commerce. This is a position that oversees people in harms way. This isn’t meant for a paper pushing bureaucrat to gain political advantage for the CIA. This is ot about the CIA getting better exposure with Congress. Don’t you understand that having an intelligence neophyte leading the CIA could cost lives? Not just intelligence officers’ lives, but the lives of Americans all over the world. You clearly don’t understand the importance of the agency. Stop looking at it like the Democrats who think intelligence is unnecessary dirty work. This work is vital to our country’s national security and defense and having an inexperienced director will undoubtedly have serious consequences for our country. Look at history when there were other directors without intel experience. The results were not good. This isn’t politics.

Exactly.

evanm (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:28PM EST (link)

DCI is not an administrative position. This “manager” will have his hands all over ongoing intelligence operations, the success or failure of which is determinative of our vital national interests, and men and women’s lives.

I have a problem with Panetta as DCI.

are you seriously contending

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:31PM EST (link)

that intel professionals have done a good job when DCI.

The one thing Langley needs, other than maybe a 1-KT nuke and a new start, is fresh blood at the top.

The CIA has demonstrated that it is impervious to change, cavalier in its analysis, and seems to have the notion that it is unaccountable. A CIA, under an intel professional, missed 9/11.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

"Fresh blood" <> Unqualified

evanm (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 3:55PM EST (link)

You’re buying into Obama’s attempt to save face if you think Panetta was chosen to bring “fresh blood” to the CIA.

Since you’ve pretty much admitted that your opinion of the CIA is a direct result of your personal experience, I’ll direct you to this, and then recommend that you start learning about all the CIA does other than “paper pushing,” here, where I learned it.

I love how your examples of CIA failures, which you attribute to career intelligence DCIs, are, so far as I can see, the result of interference by Congress or career politicians in the executive branch. More on this after work.

actually, no

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:05PM EST (link)

I’ve no interest in Obama’s face or any other part of his anatomy. What I am saying is that the CIA has proven to be a failed organization by whatever metric one wishes to use and that there is no inherent advantage to hiring someone out of the intel community to head this organization.

I’ve addressed the “paper pushing” problem earlier. I don’t cut and paste from my own posts for the convenience of people who can’t be bothered to read them.

Your last statement is bizarre. The failures are laid at the door of the relevant DCIs only because we don’t know the names of the boneheaded analysts and operators who developed the alleged intelligence in the first place. Congress and the executive had nothing to do with the notable failures on Tenet’s watch and certainly had nothing to do with the estimates of the Soviet economy. If I adopt that logic then nothing is the fault of the CIA, only of the executive, of which they are a part, or of Congress which provides oversight.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Not sure what this hit is for

evanm (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 5:04PM EST (link)

“I’ve addressed the ‘paper pushing’ problem earlier. I don’t cut and paste from my own posts for the convenience of people who can’t be bothered to read them.”

I think I’ve been pretty respectful of your contributions so far, and have made it a point to read your full comments before each of mine. I even called out Mark for being too abrasive. I still have absolutely no idea what ‘earlier post’ you’re referring to here.

I don’t expect a copy-paste. But I will bother to read your points if you’ll bother to link to them.

 
 
 

are you related to Panneta or something?

Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:45PM EST (link)

he is just another politico. I would rather have Bush or Gates, and even many others that call themselves Dems. No one here will rejoice about Panneta, I guess we are relieved it wasn’t reverend Wright.

Molon Labe!

 
 
 

I seriously doubt

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:29PM EST (link)

that you can tell me very much in this area. I used there product for some years and worked with them during Desert Storm.

The CIA is composed of paper pushers. If you look at the staffing ratios of admin/analytical staff to case officers it is astronomical. Ultimately what the CIA produces is paper. As it is still under the restraints of the Torricelli Amendment, which forbids it from recruiting persons who may be guilty of human rights violations, it would be borderline illegal to recruit either Taliban or al Qaeda officials.

I lay out pretty clearly the track records of directors with and without intel experience. There is no difference, in fact, I’d contend that the non-intel types were better directors.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Streiff you are assuming he will leed the CIA in the right direction.

Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:07PM EST (link)

New blood is great if its the right blood. The Democrats have shown they have no respect for our country’s intelligence. They have committed treason, in my opinion, for political gain with our secrets.
You think they have leaks now, what until it’s the DCI himself spillijng the beans. He’s a political hump and shouldn’t be the Director.
He may grow the CIA, bureaucratically, but as far as the CIA doing it’s job gathering and disseminating intelligence without the world knowing our every move, he will fail.

And this comment you made here, “I don’t think the CIA is capable of connecting the dots and so I fail to see why a certified incompetent from within is better than someone who can’t do worse than the professionals.” are the words of someone who has surrendered mediocrity and failure. So you are saying we shouldn’t endeavor to do better, to improve and maybe even, if I can be so bold to suggest, succeed? As a country where would we be now if we accepted that outlook on things.
What would it be like in Iraq right now if, after all that went wrong there, Bush hadn’t kept at it and put Gen. Petraeus in charge. If he had adopted the defeatism of the left and pulled out. There would be a ongoing civil war with probably 10′s of thousands dead and it would be blood on our hands. You can’t just say the CIA is broken so lets leave it that way and not strive to fix it. That is just so wrong Streiff.

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

I don't read Streiff saying that Panetta will lead

AKSteveB (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:15PM EST (link)

them in the right direction (or the wrong direction). I read him saying that it means Obama gave the agency high enough priority to appoint someone with juice.

Hell is other people – Sartre

 

actually, no

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:15PM EST (link)

I don’t make that assumption in any fashion. I do assume he will lead it in a direction that the administration wishes it to go and he has the political clout to make that change stick. Something Porter Goss did not have and Michael Hayden was unwilling to undertake.

We lost our vote on this issue in November. I think Obama is surrounding himself with mediocrities so I don’t have any reason to expect that a mediocrity from the professional bureaucracy will be any better at performing his duties than a political mediocrity.

Elections have consequences. I hope the people who were looking forward to an Obama win as a chance to teach the Republican party a lesson are really happy.

I am an avowed partisan, but I try not to be hypocritical in my partisanship. Obama will be judged on his performance. He has the constitutional right to appoint “inferior officers” with the whole advice/consent thing and I think a president, any president, has a right to staff his administration with his people.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 
 

5 -nt

Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:43PM EST (link)

nt

Molon Labe!

 
 
 
 

You think no intelligence experience

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:24AM EST (link)

is superficial for the Director of Central Intelligence? I bet you’d rather gov’t bureaucrats and politicians to run the war too. Seriously? Do you understand intelligence at all? Clearly not.

Actually, you're proposing

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:32PM EST (link)

to let government bureaucrats run intel if you buy into the idea that they need some kind of direct intel experience.

There is a reason that Title X forbids active duty officers from being the Secretary of Defense until at least 10 years have elapsed.

I have worked directly with CIA and DIA. Don’t pretend to lecture me on what I know.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

As have I

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:45PM EST (link)

but that has nothing to do with it. Stop with the resume bulls%&^. I can assure you that having a Director with absolutey no intel experience would be detrimental to the mission and those serving therein. I’m not saying that it has to be someone coming directly from an Case Officer or otherwise Operations background. I think analysts can make great administrators, because they understand firsthand what the IC is about, the mission, and the best methods of achieving the mission. Further, it could be someone from military service, State Dep’t, elsewhere in the IC. But, Leon Panetta, whom I have met and talked to personally in the White House when he was COS to Clinton, is not appropriate for this position. Newsflash: this is war time. We can’t wait for a former politician who’s been lobbying for the past few years to get past the learning curve and get up to speed on how the IC works. Stop defending him and admit this is a bad appointment. The fact that you’ve had experience as an intelligence consumer is even more disappointing, because you should know firsthand how important it is to improve the state of our IC. Clearly, your experience is overstated. Moreover, you exhibit why Obama’s comments were even more absurd, thinking that an intelligence consumer automatically makes someone prepared for running the nation’s intelligence operations (or at least Central Intelligence). That’s like saying that since I am a consumer of healthcare services, I should be a surgeon. Come on.

your thoughts are obviously

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 2:01PM EST (link)

of a great deal of interest to you but I just don’t see where the bear on the issue. The fact that history demonstrates clearly that intel experience has no bearing on performance.

Defense secretaries usually don’t come from within the Defense establishment. SecDef is a political position. SecStates usually aren’t foreign service officers.

To the contrary, getting CIA product and experiencing the juvenile, velveeta, wonder bread nature of their analysis lets one know just what they aren’t doing.

No one needs a DCI who is intimately involved in running operations or doing analysis, the DCI needs to have the clout to represent his agency and the political skills to make sure the agency is producing relevant analyses.

I’ve warned you once about your lack of social skills. Another rant will be your last.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

You're clearly not reading my response

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:09PM EST (link)

because if you were, you’d see that I indeed said the DCI doesn’t have to be a former operations officer or analyst or come from Central Intelligence. However, they should certainly have more experience related to intelligence (other than just being a consumer in a political role). For instance, as I previously said, they could come from the State Dept, Defense Dep’t or elsewhere in the IC. They don’t have to come from a spy background or be an expert on the Soviet Union, but we don’t just need a politician heading up our most critical intelligence initiatives, and certainly not in a time of war.

Also, why don’t you get over my lack of social skills? Do I really offend you so much to where I hurt your feelings, or do you just need to be coddled all of the time? I’m sorry I stepped on your toes. Geez, stop whining and be a big boy. The Democrats must love having you on their side. Note: if you didn’t make such a poor argument, then I’d be much friendlier, but it’s becoming evident as to why the GOP has lost its influence with viewpoints like these. Maybe the rest of the Party needs to think how we can forget about being offended and actually do something for the rest of the country.

look here, you are a blowhard

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:16PM EST (link)

and liar. I’ve got no use for either. If you met Panetta it was when you were in high school and you’ve never worked around intel in any way, shape, or form.. You’re barely out of freakin high school.

You haven’t stepped on my toes but you have shown anyone who has read this that you are devoid of any sense of integrity and can’t be trusted.

If you post again on any story I write or comment on I’ll ban you.

Go away.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

You don't even know me

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:26PM EST (link)

so why can’t you stick to the issues? I never attacked you personally or said anything about you personally. I just said you made a poor argument, which it is. Most every Republican and Democrats agrees. And I’m a liar? How do you know anything about what I’ve done, who I’ve met or what experience I have? So, you see my LinkedIn profile? That’s great, Perry Mason. Doesn’t mean you know anything about me. So, your solution is to threaten and ban me? Your power is unwielding. I’ll tell you what … I’ll stick to the issues if you do. And, I’ll even be more pleasent in my responses, otherwise my home room teacher might get mad at me. But, drop the whole “I’ll ban you” bit. Are we here to talk about conservative matters or not? Are you formally associated with Redstate or not? Yet, you’re dealing me to go away and I’m talking about the issues. Good job. You’re pushing the Party line spendidly. We can always just take it offline though.

 

By the way,

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 9:00PM EST (link)

I’m not claiming to be anything I’m not. I said I met Panetta. I worked in politics on the Hill. Wasn’t anything important – just like you’re first job wasn’t important – but I did attend sessions (not at the WH but during his tenure as WHCOS) where he was asked about something related to intelligence. This was near the time the Clinton Administration was forming their policies around rendition measures for terrorist detainees, specifically around the emergence of a little known group called Al Quaida. He didn’t even know what the word meant. The whole irony about him being there during those discussions (not sure if he was the actual COS when those policies were made, but he was involved for sure) is almost laughable. Like I said, I’m not claiming to be anything I’m not, but you clearly won’t get the full story from my LinkedIn profile, so I’d appreciate it if you weren’t a jerk about something when people call you out. Uh oh, that must be the third period bell ringing …

 
 
 
 

Transitioning from technocrat to policymaker

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 2:17PM EST (link)

is one of the hardest things one can do. At least for me, it wasn’t as psycologically or emotionally as hard as transitioning from team member to team supervisor, but the change in point of view from doing the work to deciding what work is to be done is wrenching and lots don’t make it.

When I was a technician, I could be the biggest hardass in the world on my cases and my initiatives; there was my way and the coward’s way. I could even still be a lot that way when I was a supervisor/manager. I had my hot work unit, this is what we thought should happen, and if you didn’t agree you were stupid, corrupt, a coward, or all of the above. The World looks a lot different when you’re the one deciding the objectives rather than just strategy and tactics. It is a much bigger transition than that from deciding tactics to deciding strategy.

Frankly, the hardest part for me when I got to the policy level was learning to let my people do their jobs and trusting them to do them. The only place the former technocrat has a real advantage over the “good manager” is the former technocrat has a better BS filter and is less likely to be led down the primrose path. That said, the good manager is much better able to know whether a particular course of action secures an Administration’s overall objectives whereas the technocrat remains focussed on the tactical or strategic victory. At the policy level, it is real easy to win battles and lose wars!

In Vino Veritas

Thanks for your insight. 5* nt

baseketball (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 9:04PM EST (link)
 

on second thought

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 2:19PM EST (link)

you know, honesty is really a virtue.

Before you blow smoke about your qualifications maybe you should edit the link to your LinkedIn profile on your website.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Now streiff

Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 2:33PM EST (link)

We have no evidence that he didn’t meet Leon Panetta while he was in Junior High. I understand some schools go on tours of the White House, etc. Of course, why that makes him qualified to talk about Panetta’s suitability for the job of DCI is beyond me, but. . .

————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.

Leon, I think streiff was referring to Mark's claim of working with the CIA/DIA...

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 2:35PM EST (link)

Although I could be wrong.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

both are points

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:07PM EST (link)

of contention, though Leon does explain the Panetta meeting.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

See

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 9:06PM EST (link)
 
 

????

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:16PM EST (link)

Who said I worked for the CIA/DIA? I never made such a claim. I said I have worked with representatives from the IC. That was in a political role as a consumer. I’ve never worked in intelligence and I can assure you coming from a political role as a consumer does not qualify me or anyone for DCI or making any decisions on our nation’s intelligence. Good try on the detective work though. You’re awesome, streiff. Regular Perry Mason.

Apparently, you're not thinking clearly...

rbdwiggins (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 9:16PM EST (link)

because you obviously don’t know when to quit.

Query: Is the President of the United States a consumer of intelligence? Does that not qualify him to make decisions regarding our nation’s intelligence.

Note: streiff has the benefit of historical perspective on his side, and you’ve chosen to argue a point you have no chance of winning.

“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

Answer:

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 9:25PM EST (link)

No. Isn’t this the mantra that we as Republicans have been pushing for over a year now, ever since Barack Obama started his campaign? Just because someone with less than one full term of Senate experience is elected POTUS doesn’t make him qualified for anything. He isn’t qualified to be POTUS or make decisions that affect American lives. But, he was elected. Nothing we can do about that. But, the DCI isn’t elected … it’s just poor judgement purporting itself down the chain. Apparently, *you’re* not thinking clearly. This is REDSTATE, right?

That's right...

rbdwiggins (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 10:20PM EST (link)

The DCI is not elected. The DCI is a political appointment.

Elections have consequences.

The president chooses to fill his cabinet and various agencies for different reasons, but they’re mostly political. Look back through the history of the CIA, and you’ll find that the Director has almost always been a political appointment, as opposed to policy.

Panetta was chosen for one reason: To protect President Obama from the CIA, in the same manner Panetta protected Clinton from himself.

“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

You are wrong

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:26AM EST (link)

but so full of your own opinion that you won’t see or admit it until it’s to late.
I’ve seen a heck of a lot of “managers” move into positions that need leaders, not managers.
The result is almost always the same.
Epic fail.
Just what we do NOT need at this time, any time for the Intel biz actually.
But regardless of what the imagined ‘real’ reason is that Panetta is being given this position, I seriously doubt that the result will be ‘good’ for the USA.
And it’s really, REALLY a job where “not sure of result” is a huge negative.
The above is just my experience based opinion.
Other people may or may not have other experience that leads them to a different conclusion.
It just seems to me that regardless of how serious one takes the War on Terror, having a purely political animal as the head of the most important foreign intelligence gathering organ of government is a shot in the dark, at best.
A shot I’d rather not see taken.

first off

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:37PM EST (link)

I don’t see how you make the manager vs leader in this argument. Do you know Panetta? Do you know he’s not a leader? Have you met an intel type who was a leader? If you find one, please introduce me.

History has shown conclusively that hiring the DCI from within the intel community is no guarantee of anything other than that you will get the institutional view. Examples are porvided in the post.

I take the War on Terror very seriously. And I can’t help but recall that war started on the watch of a CIA director who was a career intelligence officer. I don’t see how Panetta can do worse.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Do I know Panetta?

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:09PM EST (link)

No, I don’t, do you?
Are we just going to hope that he has any leadership expertise?
I can, and will continue to, make the leader versus manager argument when I (1) think that an Agency of the government needs leadership and (2) when one of the two most critical “qualifications” Mr Obama quoted in his sorta announcement is managerial experience.
Perhaps I am sticky about the terms.
Management is something that a leader needs to be competent in.
Managers, in my experience based opinion, generally fail in leadership roles.
Mostly because once they recognize the problem, their own inability to inspire others to their cause, they fall back on “managing” things. Which generally turns out to be insuring that blame is properly placed.
And haven’t we had about enough of placing blame in the last few years?
Do we really want a “Not my fault” guy at the top of the CIA?

all of that may be true

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:28PM EST (link)

but unless you are saying that Panetta is not a leader and some CIA apparatchik, as yet unnamed, is, you point is irrelevant.

Likewise, I’d point out that technical competence does not equal either leadership or management ability.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

No I don't know Panetta, do you?

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:18PM EST (link)

Or are we to ‘hope’ that he has some leadership ability, or just accept another “Not my fault” manager in the CIA?
Leaders need to be able to manage.
Managers, in my experience based opinion, rarely understand the leadership role.
They assume that a “plan” can be managed and massaged to an effective conclusion.
They, managers, often fail to recognize their own lack of capacity to inspire others to their cause, and it’s critical role in leadership.
Managers, once faced with their inability to lead, tend to fall back on the time tested rule of insure blame is placed on someone else.
Which isn’t to say that there haven’t been, and won’t be in the future, leaders who fail once elevated above their abilities.
But having zero established ability in the first place seems to better portend failure.
Again, a chance I’d rather the Country didn’t have to face.

seen enough of Panetta's "leadership" under Clinton admin to know....

JLenardDetroit (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 8:26PM EST (link)

I don’t want him anywhere near the CIA or anything of importance what-so-ever…. More APPEASEMENT crowd appointments to satisfy the Left of the Democrat Party… IMHO…. but I suspect/expect that ANY Democrat will be put in charge of CIA to be of the SURRENDER FIRST DOCTRINE mindset.

Obama was just getting to the end of the WHO REQUIRES PAYBACK list…. and what slots were open list……

Regards from NoMoTown (the MOTORlessCITY)
“Liberals, looking to do for? America what they’ve done for? Detroit! which is DESTROY IT!”
“I think, therefore I am Conservative”
“Conservative by choice, Republican by necessity”
“You can lead a Liberal to the Truth/Facts, but you cannot make them THINK!”
“Romney [No, not my first choice] does NOT have a MORMON problem. He has a, far too many Americans; these days; are MORONS problem!”


(RS:Help) (JLD) (Hollyweird) (Brain-deads) (SPIN-cycle) (Obamaocare) (Party of kNOw) (Conservatism) (TEApeats) (respectful) (message) (Warning: Children Will Die!!)
Heil “O” Hell No Obamao is NOT MY PRESIDENT! “No U won’t”
I want “O” to FAIL (here, here, & whole Diary (Ofail) here, is why)
The first Liberal was Satan” – a Rush caller (other Quotes)

 
 
 
 

This is what it has come to?!?

Mark Reiboldt (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 11:31AM EST (link)

Is this the type of rubbish we should expect from GOP supporters. This kind of naivete lost us the majority, the White House and any significance in today’s society whatsoever. No wonder we’re in such a crappy situation. I hope you don’t represent us anywhere else.

Woah there...

evanm (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:31PM EST (link)

I agree that Streiff is off base here, but that’s about as far as I’d go. I agree with him that Presidents should get their nominees, but I disagree that there’s no problem with nominating Panetta.

But regardless, Panetta gutting out intelligence capabilities for the next four years is not Streiff’s problem. It’s Barack Obama’s.

No, it's everyones 'problem'..sheesh nt

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:35PM EST (link)

correct

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:40PM EST (link)

and the reason he should get his nominee is so that he is accountable, for good or ill, for what happens.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

5.

NightTwister (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:48PM EST (link)

Elections have consequences. All those people that said things like,

Four years of Carter brought us Reagan

seem to have forgotten we have to actually endure the four years of Carter before we even get a chance for another Reagan.

But hey, at least we didn’t end up with McCain…

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill

NightTwister that is one of the most depressing things I've ever heard!

Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:27PM EST (link)

Well, maybe that’s a bit of an exaggeration but it sure is a dismal thought to think that we need to go through years of negative consequences in the hope that it leads to something better. Especially
when those negative consequences could be the loss of lives.
It’s saying that we know there’s a problem now but we won’t fix it to prove a point.
I guess I understand that position but it damn sure is a depressing
situation.

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

Reality can be depressing....

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:33PM EST (link)

It’s how you deal with that depression that counts.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

Booze, dude

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:43PM EST (link)

Trust me, Dallas sports fans KNOW about depression. Take your pick:

–Dallas Cowboys (underperforming late season chokers).
–Dallas Mavericks(06: choke to Miami Heat; 07: 67-15 season, first round exit; 08: back to sucking in general)
–Dallas Stars (brief glory in 1998-2000 era, otherwise mediocre)
–Texas Rangers (we are now actually petitioning MLB to award an actual Major League franchise for our superb stadium) (OK, seriously: 35 years in existence, 3 playoffs, no second rounds)

So, like I said, booze. Not alcohol. Not liquor. Must be rot-gut, nasty booze.

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

heh EPU two words...Raiders Fan....nt

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:46PM EST (link)

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

Then the booze thing requires no translation -nt

E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:49PM EST (link)

Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO

 
 
 
 

That's not my position.

NightTwister (Diary) Thursday, January 8th at 7:27AM EST (link)

I not saying we shouldn’t fix anything. I’m saying we aren’t in a position of power right now where we could. We (the voters) put ourselves here, and now we get what we asked for.

Sure, we should limit the damage wherever possible, but that’s the best we’re going to be able to do.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill

 
 
 
 

You're right

evanm (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 3:46PM EST (link)

I should have said “fault,” not problem. I was responding to the tenor of Mark’s comment which, to me, is a personal attack that is outside the bounds of decent conversation when all we’re doing is having a disagreement about a man’s qualifications for a job. Are the stakes high? Yeah. All the more reason to keep the discussion civil.

 
 
 

let's be clear

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:39PM EST (link)

I don’t know you and from what I’ve seen thus far I don’t care to know you.

I’m willing to argue my viewpoint as long as there are electrons but I won’t have an apparent imbecile-in-training insult me.

Do it again and you’re gone.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

My Apologies

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:40PM EST (link)

I’m getting some “site not found” errors.
I wait a minute or so to see if the post goes up anyway, then try again.
Guess I didn’t wait long enough this time, thus the sorta double post.
If someone can, I would have no issue with this post as well as the double being removed.

done

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 12:41PM EST (link)

n-t

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Streiff come on now

Michael Dugas (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 4:16PM EST (link)

New blood is great if its the right blood. The Democrats have shown they have no respect for our country’s intelligence. They have committed treason, in my opinion, for political gain with our secrets.
You think they have leaks now, what until it’s the DCI himself spilling the beans. He’s a political hump and shouldn’t be the Director.
He may grow the CIA, bureaucratically, but as far as the CIA doing it’s job gathering and disseminating intelligence without the world knowing our every move, he will fail.

And this comment you made here, “I don’t think the CIA is capable of connecting the dots and so I fail to see why a certified incompetent from within is better than someone who can’t do worse than the professionals.” are the words of someone who has surrendered to mediocrity and failure. So you are saying we shouldn’t endeavor to do better, to improve and maybe even, if I can be so bold to suggest, succeed? As a country where would we be now if we accepted that outlook on things.
What would it be like in Iraq right now if, after all that went wrong there, Bush hadn’t kept at it and put Gen. Petraeus in charge. If he had adopted the defeatism of the left and pulled out. There would be a ongoing civil war with probably 10’s of thousands dead and it would be blood on our hands. You can’t just say the CIA is broken so lets leave it that way and not strive to fix it. That is just so wrong Streiff.

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

 
 
 

Alright I'm done for today

USNJIMRET (Diary) Wednesday, January 7th at 1:23PM EST (link)

Hit “Post a comment”, nothing shows up except the error notice, rewrite the whole thing, because I didn’t save a local copy.
Finally see the post, post.
Refresh the site and bingo….BOTH posts are up.
Don’t know what is happening, be it me or the net or the site or whatever.
But I think I’ll just call it a day here and go multipost elsewhere.
Drats.