E. J. Dionne On Racial Voting


Or Why Color of Skin Trumps Content of Character

A week or so ago Erick wrote a story entitled: Is it Okay to Vote Against a Candidate Because of His Race?
and concluded that no, it is not okay to vote against a candidate based on his or her race.

Yesterday Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne answered the converse to that question, Is it okay to vote for a candidate based on his race, this way:

Like it or not, Obama’s race is an issue, just as John F. Kennedy’s religion was an issue in 1960 — and racism runs deeper in our history than anti-Catholicism.

There is no doubt that two keys to this election are: How many white and Latino votes will Obama lose because of his race that a white Democrat would have won? And how much will African American turnout grow, given the opportunity to elect our nation’s first black president?

Let’s dispose of the canard that there is something wrong with black people voting in overwhelming numbers for a black candidate. Minorities in the United States always turn out in a big way for the candidate who is breaking barriers on their behalf.

Pause for a moment and consider the implications. The canard Dionne so deftly disposes of, if his assertion is to be held as anything less than scandalous, is the notion that judging people by the “content of their character” is just so much booshwah.

If it is “okay” for minorities to vote for a candidate of their racial and ethnic group then it follows that it is okay for non-minorities to do the same. Otherwise one is left with the unpleasant proposition that “those people” are expected to behave differently from “us”, the more enlightened. Even if it isn’t “okay”, is it reasonable to expect there will be no backlash when it becomes obvious that a candidate’s viability depends nearly in its entirety on members of a specific racial or ethnic or cultural group voting for him in large numbers?

I’m not so naive as to be surprised that a lot of black voters will pull the lever for Barack Obama based solely on his skin color. Likewise I have no doubt that he will lose a lot of white votes that would ordinarily have gone Democrat for the same reason. But let’s not sugar coat it. Racial voting is wrong. It doesn’t matter who does it or what the reason. A black man pulling the lever for Barack Obama because of his race is in the final analysis no different from a white guy pulling the lever for David Duke. Sponsoring a “black slate” of candidates (h/t to Erick in his PeachPundit persona) bears a striking resemblance to proferring a “white slate.” It’s a pretty simple concept, really, and our system of government will not work if we accept and encourage the idea that racial balkanization in the voting booth, latter day Jim Crow voting if you will, is acceptable.


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This is my take on it.

NightTwister (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 1:46PM EST (link)

Obama will lose many more votes because of where he is on the issues (or his lack of the ability to take a stand on any of them), his inexperience, and his lack of character than directly atrributable to his color.

He will get many more votes due to his color from AA voters than he will lose for that single issue from white/latino voters.

Race is most certainly an issue in this election, and it is a net gain for Obama.

He knows this, and that is why he is the one that keeps making race an issue.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. – Winston Churchill

 

splitting a hair...

birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 2:24PM EST (link)

I do see a difference between “I’m going to vote for this guy because of his skin color” and “I’m not going to vote for this guy (and will instead vote for his opponent) because of his skin color”.

That may seem odd, but compare to, say, liking a person from a particular state.

“I was on the fence but I see my guy picked a VP from Colorado. Hey! The hometown guy! Yeah, that’ll swing my vote.” vs. “I was on the fence but I see that the other guy picked a guy from Pennsylvania… PENNSYLVANIA??? I’ll be dead in the cold, cold ground before I ever put a Pennsylvanian one heartbeat away from the button!”

I suppose to put a finer point on it: It’s silly and superficial (and fallacious) to see something as silly/superficial as skin color as something that makes a person “One Of Us”… but there is a great deal of historical ugliness behind deciding that skin color is a definite indicator that someone is NOT “One Of Us”.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire

 

TDB

crossbuck Wednesday, August 6th at 2:26PM EST (link)

Historically, 85-90% of blacks vote for the Democrat. So black or white the Democrat is going to get the black votes.

It would be interesting to see if a black at the top of the Republican ticket changed that dynamic.

Will a black presidential candidate generate more actual black votes – i.e. a greater number actually turn out to vote since there’s a black poised to become president? I reckon we’ll see.

is see the difference as sophistry

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 2:31PM EST (link)

but if it works for you, fine.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

 
 

Racial insecurity?

poxoma Wednesday, August 6th at 2:47PM EST (link)

“Let’s dispose of the canard that there is something wrong with black people voting in overwhelming numbers for a black candidate”

As a visible minority myself, I always feel that minority members who vote for a candidate simply because he/she looks just like them shows the hidden insecurity of those individuals. On the one hand, miniority members demand that they should be judged only on their abilities, not on their color/appearance; yet they turn around and vote for someone based on looks without finding out the real substance underneath.

 

The first canard is

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 2:55PM EST (link)

is the notion that “racism” as directed towards those of African descent has deeper roots here than anti-Catholicism. For those of us of an English heritage, anti-Catholicism was taken with mother’s milk long before black Africans were seen or heard of outside the circles of academics and the most intrepid merchants and explorers.

England’s break with the Catholic Church was still fresh at the founding of the American colonies and the divisions that tore at England’s fabric for two centuries were present here as well and remained so until quite recently. “Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion” is a fairly recent description of Democrat inclined Irish in this Country.

In Vino Veritas

Not sophistry, really...

birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 3:06PM EST (link)

Let me rephrase it like this (and I’ll use my own experience here, your mileage may be different, of course).

For every election I’ve ever been old enough to vote in, I have had the option between two guys who looked like me, or close enough. They looked like the deacons at my church. Every Single Time. So, when I went in to vote, the issue of what they looked like never really mattered to me. I could look at stuff like “does this person know what it’s like to go hunting?” and see that, yeah, he does or, heh, of course not. “Does this person care about the issues that are important to me?” You could look at the issues, previous votes, previous speeches, so on and so forth.

But I’m a white dude.

I can’t imagine what it’d be like for a black guy to look at the field and say “holy cow, someone who understands what I go through is running!” This is much bigger than the whole “is this guy a hunter” question. It’s a “does this guy know what it’s like to walk through a Sears and be asked every five steps ‘can I help you? can I help you?’”

One of the wacky things that happens in a representative democracy is that people sometimes ask “who will best represent me and mine?” when they look at the list of names before them. Some people consider “me and mine” to be economic self-interest, some people consider “me and mine” to be religious affiliation, some people consider “me and mine” to be people who have a particular interpretation of the Constitution.

It’s not particularly surprising to me to see African-Americans say “holy cow, One Of Us!”

They’ve never been able to do that before… prior to this, the closest they’ve come is Jesse Jackson. Surely you understand how demoralizing that must be.

But the “holy cow, One Of Us!” phenomenon is one that is very likely to feel overwhelming to a large number of African-Americans. It’s something I’ve had my whole life… I can’t imagine feeling it for the first time in my adulthood. Waving it away as “racism” will probably communicate less an understanding of the dynamic to the group of people whose votes you want… indeed, a group of people to whom you’ve been trying to explain that Democratic Policies are harmful to them and theirs.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire

I'm not saying I don't understand it

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 3:30PM EST (link)

what I’m saying is that I don’t particularly care about the motivation, the action is noxious in and of itself. And it is a short leap from there to saying, “this guy doesn’t look like me so he can’t represent me.”

If you are willing to accept one behavior, you’d best be prepared to accept the logical outcome.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

That Kerry got 91%...

birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 3:38PM EST (link)

Pretty much tells me that that is one leap we don’t have to worry about them making anytime soon.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire

A few, but probably not many. Signed, Michael Steele

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 3:53PM EST (link)

In the 2006 Maryland Senate Race, African Americans supported (white) Cardin (D) over (black) Steele (R) 74% to 25%.

The same day they supported (white) O’Malley (D) over (white) Ehrlich (R) for Governor 84% to 15%.

So being a black Republican will get you about an extra 10% of the black vote, but still nowhere near a majority.

Yeah, that MD Sen race was an eye opener

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 4:02PM EST (link)

I was very disappointed with my home state.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

I actually voted in both those elections,

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 4:21PM EST (link)

which is why they immediately sprang to mind.

Of course, I voted for O’Malley and Cardin, mainly because they’re white like me.

(JOKE ALERT! for those lacking a sense of humor.)

Yeah, how is that O'Malley choice working out for you?

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 4:27PM EST (link)

Mr. HighesttaxrateinthecountryhighereventhanMassachusettsandCalifornia ?

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

You forget, I'm a liberal. I love taxes!

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 4:41PM EST (link)

Plus my wife is a public school teacher, so you know where those taxes are going!

Seriously, though, I haven’t had much time to focus on state politics with Mayor Sheila Dixon running Baltimore into the ground (I did vote for her Democratic challenger in the primary and her Republican challenger in the general, despite the fact that he’s essentially a crazy that runs for something every year). The only thing I’ve really been watching is slots, which I oppose but which will get passed anyway.

wouldn't the slots bring in more tax revenue???

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 4:51PM EST (link)

and as for the taxes and your wife being a teacher…is she part of a teachers union?

P.S. I meant to respond to you the other day but my internet connection was crap and I was having issues with the site. I appreciate you being candid enough to explain your “odd” ways to me. You often bring valuable content to the debates here at RS, thanks for that….;^)

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

Slots steal money from innocent poor people. I want to take taxes from evil rich people. :)

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:06PM EST (link)

Actually, slots are one of the few things I oppose on strictly moral grounds. I think it’s irresponsible and immoral for the government to collect its revenue by introducing a vice. (I think I can forgo a full description of why gambling is a vice.)

If the vice is already there and legal (alcohol, tobacco, etc.), I have no problem with the government taxing it. Lotteries and slots, though, are introduced specifically in order to increase government revenue by promoting vice.

If the government is short on revenue, it should either reduce its expenditures or increase traditional taxation of income, land, sales, etc. Let the people decide if they want more services at greater cost or fewer services at lower cost. A people deciding that they want more services at the cost of others’ addictions, though, is immoral, in my ever so humble opinion.

Watch out CC you are dangerously close to sounding like a Republican...;^)...n/t

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:10PM EST (link)

n/t

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

So your wife is watching all those taxes go to

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:11PM EST (link)

paying the administrators, gotcha. ;)

I lived most of my life in Baltimore and Montgomery County. You really don’t have any idea how much different it is. I was stunned how much higher my takehome pay was when I moved to Boston. Even the property taxes were lower.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

You're right. Nevermind. I'll just stick with the "hosing the rich" thing. (n/t)

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:12PM EST (link)

I heard last night that Mass is getting a measure on the ballot to end the state income tax....

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:13PM EST (link)

how can this happen in Taxechusettes?

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

"Slots steal money from innocent poor people." Not!

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:14PM EST (link)

I agree, CrabCakes, that the government should never use lotteries, casinos or other forms of gambling to generate revenues.

However, I am also a huge proponent of personal responsibility and accountability. Innocent poor people my a**. Until the money gets into the machine by telepathy, the user is simply stupid, not innocent.

:)

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

come to the darkside...it is your...Destiny....;^)...n/t

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:14PM EST (link)

n/t

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

I think a big part of B-more's problem is crime and poverty.

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:20PM EST (link)

Granted, I haven’t lived here long enough to know when these took off and what perpetuated them.

It seems to me, though, that there’s a relatively small proportion of the population that is paying taxes (i.e. has an income on the books) and a relatively large proportion of the population receiving the lion’s share of the expenditures (police and government subsidies), and those two groups don’t overlap a lot. It’s pretty much the same problem that any decent sized city has, but on a larger scale.

As far as pay goes, though, they pay teachers quite well here. They have such a hard time recruiting them that starting teachers get paid as if they had 5 years experience on top of signing bonuses and free laptops. The one decent thing that’s happened in Baltimore over the last year is the downsizing of North Ave. (Baltimore School Administration Offices), with more money going to principals and teachers.

and I thought the biggest problem was the humidity...;^)...n/t

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:23PM EST (link)

n/t

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

I will tell you Crabcakes when B-mores problems began..

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:35PM EST (link)

When Kurt Schmoke back in the 80′s started his war against the war on drugs as Attorney General and then as Mayor and than did nothing to stop the drugs on the street that killed alot of people in the late 80′s and 90′s….hell Baltimore was competing with DC (Marion Barry) for murder capital of the US…..and his follow up Mayor Shiela Dixon just kept on digging…..it is because these “progressives” take over these cities and destroy the very fabric of their soul that they suffer…..Baltimore will never be the same as it once was……at least when William Donald Schaffer (D)was Mayor there was some law and order (yes he went nuts in old age)….you see he was an old school Democrat…none of that progressive crap. It was such a safe city that I could leave the suburbs as an 11 year old and go into the city on a bus with my 15 year old sister and go to the Patterson theater and no one bothered us.

Very sad what happened to Baltimore and Detroit and every other blue collar city that progressives thought they could “fix” with their hand out policies.

Yeah, I've heard we've had a bad run of mayors.

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:46PM EST (link)

O’Malley, with his “zero tolerance” policy (derided as racist by his detractors) seemed to do all right. I’ll never cast a vote for Dixon or any of her followers, though. Even if my only other options are local crazies.

what I'm talking about

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:49PM EST (link)

is it encourages white voters to vote only for whites. If the idea of no electoral opportunity for blacks outside of artificially configured “minority majority” districts and a handful of cities is the long term plan then Dionne certainly starts us down that road.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

Glad to hear that!

JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 5:56PM EST (link)

Baltimore's problems began in the 1940's

blooch Wednesday, August 6th at 5:59PM EST (link)

when a certain Thomas D’Alesandro was elected mayor from 1947 to 1959. Want to hazard a guess as to whose daddy he was?

My dad was born there and got out as soon as he turned 18.

“Lieutenant Dike wasn’t a bad leader because he made bad decisions. He was a bad leader because he made no decisions.”

I can do vice with the best of them

Achance (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:07PM EST (link)

and I live in a state that not only tolerates but encourages it; marajuana is legal under state law, you’d have to sent the cops an engraved invitation to get busted for personal use of any drug, prostitution is de facto legal, as is backroom gambling, there’s a nude strip joint on every corner in the larger cities, etc., etc.

That said, most of the people doing that stuff relatively openly can afford it. What bothers me is the poor dumb SOB that I see when I visit my sister in rural Georgia coming out of the Mini-Mart on Friday afternoon with a gallon of milk, a half-rack, and a fist full of lottery tickets. I know what that guy makes and I don’t know how he’s going to make that trailer payment if he doesn’t win something in the lottery.

The part of me that used to read Ayn Rand kinda appreciates a tax on the poor and stupid, but it really is poor policy. Yes, the slots and lotteries bring in a lot of money – and a lot of graft and corruption – but what is the net of the social costs? How many DVs because Joe Sixpack spent the rent on lottery tickets? How many divorces? How much theft? And on, and on.

In Vino Veritas

Hey Crabby!

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:15PM EST (link)

This whole thread is why we love you here at RS.

Plus, my mouth waters every time I read one of your posts. I haven’t had a decent crab cake since we left Delaware 20 years ago. And nobody in Phoenix has a clue what a “crab” actually looks like, let alone knows how to cook one. And then theres the stuff that passes for “fish”.

Oh well.

what, Joe's Crap Shack isn't doing it right....;^)....n/t

Attack Mode (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:20PM EST (link)

n/t

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

I am actually eating crabcakes right now :)

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:29PM EST (link)

My mom gave me a great recipe years ago.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

Thanks, mbecker.

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:31PM EST (link)

I picked the name after I’d just had the best cakes in the world right here in Baltimore. I have to say, they almost make up for the rest of the city.

Send it to me.

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:33PM EST (link)

I’ll promise to recommend every diary you post. I’ll even put up sock puppets to do recommends. (voice of desperation…)

Sad what happened to Baltimore

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:36PM EST (link)

I went to Baltimore Poly for highschool. On Fridays we would get off the bus at the inner harbor or take the bus over to 33rd street to see the O’s play. Would get home pretty late at night into South Baltimore, and never had any issues or ever didn’t feel safe.

When I came home from college we would spend weekends up in Fells Point bar hopping, again never felt anything other than safe. Baltimore was the poster child for inner city recovery and vibrancy.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

I'll get it for you

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:39PM EST (link)

Promise. But I might make you say something nice about Bush in exchange ;)

This recipe came from the church ladies up on Huntington Ave (near the zoo). Their fund raiser ever year was selling them at the local fair. The lines were always 20 deep.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

No, I think that you have to give up

dbecraft Wednesday, August 6th at 6:46PM EST (link)

your ideas of race! Most have no problem voting for an American of any race as long as they are FOR America and offer plans to advance. I and many others will not tolerate voting for someone because of race (although the blacks have other opinions – it seems). I and most others look at the issues and are sometimes flabbergasted at the pandering to race – both whites and blacks.

When we can get a conservative black to run, I guarantee that most conservatives will vote for them regardless of race – still waiting for that black to run.

I really wish that many here could speak factual things instead of worrying about the political correct attitudes. That is what is holding things back. When they do, they will have to sacrifice many black votes to racial preference ideals and political correctness and that may indeed be their and our downfall.

Still waiting for the other races both Blacks and Asians to become Americans…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

I would vote for GWB again - twice.

mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:52PM EST (link)

Given Algore and Senator Treason.

As I noted yesterday, I support most of his policies, I’m just really aggravated by his lack of follow through.

Bottom line, he’s a much better President than any of the contenders in 2000 or 2004. To paraphrase my man Rummy, you go to the ballot box with the candidates you’ve got.

I think your solution, though laudable,

streiff (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:53PM EST (link)

could strike a lot of folks as the electoral equivalent of unilateral disarmament because it creates a situation where a racial or ethnic group is encouraged to elect officials for no other reason than their race and ethnicity.

I’d submit to you that that attitude is much more a factor in the relative scarcity of conservative black candidates than any lack of appeal of conservatism in black communities.

It takes a lot of courage to decide that your ideals are worth being a social pariah.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

You and I are on the same page

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 6:57PM EST (link)

with Rumsfeld, for sure :)

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

Darn, and I thought that I was expressing

dbecraft Wednesday, August 6th at 6:58PM EST (link)

just the opposite! Yes, short term, racial minorities may vote their preference with undue regard to race, but the rest of America needs to get over this and vote for ideas.

If that did not come across as I intended, that was my mistake.

Either we all become Americans, or we become a divided and racial nation.

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”

Parts of Baltimore are all right again.

CrabCakes (Diary) Wednesday, August 6th at 7:18PM EST (link)

Canton, Fells Point, Federal Hill, the Inner Harbor, and the Avenue (36th St.) in Hampden are nearly as safe as Roland Park these days. All of them have a great night life, or so I’m told. I’m old enough to prefer a good bourbon and cigar on my own deck more than loud thumping music and drunk sorority girls.

Most of the rest of the city, though, is still in sad shape. Saddest of all is that it pretty much breaks down to white and black neighborhoods. With the former doing all right and the latter being largely just “fenced in,” i.e. as long as the problems don’t filter in to the white neighborhoods, there is no problem.

Actually Steriff, I do understand your point.

dbecraft Wednesday, August 6th at 7:24PM EST (link)

But you are talking about a minority that is entrenched in BLACK ideals (given their leadership in this, it is not abnormal). We just need black individuals to step up and admit to being American first (wow, that would be unusual wouldn’t it?) – not black! Things could change drastically if and when such a leader emerges. I see massive changes in attitude overnight – or is that just Saturn…

Yes, not holding my breath since conservatism is held in such a low regard. Maybe next election, or the next, or the next…

Maybe I should just stop ranting while I’m ahead (or behind – depending upon who is keeping score)…

Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”