Huck's win and the revenge of the SoCons
By Alexham Posted in 2008 | Iowa Caucuses | Mike Huckabee — Comments (248) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
As the only Huck-supporting Redstate contributor, I thought it would be appropriate for me to offer a few thoughts on tonight's victory.
First, Governor Huckabee's win in Iowa sends a message to the GOP establishment that SoCons are not going to sit back and allow the party to be hijacked by those who don't have our interests at heart. We are still the heart and soul of the party, and we're not going anywhere. If you want the nomination, you're going to have to deal with us and our concerns (i.e., "Culture of Life" issues).
Second, Governor Huckabee's win demonstrates that grass-roots conservatives have flatly rejected the candidacy of Mitt Romney. Mitt can stay in as long as he wishes to fund his own campaign, but he's essentially done. McCain is going to win New Hampshire, and either McCain or Huckabee is going to win South Carolina. So, if you been waiting to buy ol' Hugh's book (but didn't want to pay full price for it), just wait a week or so, and it will be on sale at your local Sam's Club in the dollar bin.
Third, Governor Huckabee desperately needs to reach out to FisCons and DefCons immediately if he stands any chance of winning the nomination and/or presidency. The brutal truth, Huckfans, is that there are many legitimate criticisms of our boy regarding his fidelity to fiscal conservatism and preparedness to handle complex national-security issues. He needs to deal with these concerns in a way that shows his skeptics within the party that he is ready to be the nominee of the entire party, not just SoCons.
Fourth, the hostility currently being leveled at Huckabee by many Republicans needs to be dialed down a few notches. If you want to criticize him on substantive grounds, please feel free to do so (indeed, I've done so myself); but some of the attacks that have been made against him on this website border on being ridiculous. At some point, we're all going to have to start singing from the same hymnal again, and that's not going to be easy to do if folks continue to characterize a potential nominee of our party as the anti-Christ.
Finally, Ron Paul still sucks.
Now, on to South Carolina!
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Huck's win and the revenge of the SoCons 248 Comments (0 topical, 248 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
In what area has the GOP failed to deliver on ANY of the socon movement's goals? W. Bush is about as socially conservative as you can get.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
This 100% or else attitude won't be liked by them if a number of us refuse to vote for the Huckster because he is most definitely not 100% conservative, except in pandering mode.
Great strategy, pump up one of the weakest general election candidates and risk losing a chance for one or two more Supreme court picks.
Yeah, I really don't understand who gave the evangelicals the right to first refusal.
Maybe some of us should start threatening to withhold votes instead of being bullied around by holier than thou Christians.
when some Huckabee supporters assume his critics are only evangelical haters or atheists. I'm getting real tired having to say that I'm a conservative prolife Christian. Or the other tired one, it's the elites in the GOP. Well, thanks for the promotion, but I would like the paycheck that goes along with that.
because they turned out. Maybe we should means-test who gets to vote, you know, some kind of voting affirmative action to limit evangelicals who can caucus so you don't feel so left out and bullied.
Rudy '08
For one, I will not be pushed around by SoCons.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
Who gave the evangelicals the "right to first refusal"?
We did. In 2000 and 2004 (and 1992) we needed those evangelicals to get over the hump. We've pandered to them, flattered them, pretended that those "social values" were more important than anything else. And when they found out that Conservatives are human too, that we cheat on our wives, get divorced, some of us more than once, they found us wanting. They were unhappy that some of us didn't rush to abandon science. They hated that some of us believed that government didn't have the right to tell women they had to carry fetuses to term. They even hated that some of us USED to believe that.
Chickens, meet roost.
Hmmm.... I don't see any title of ownership on the republican party.
But thank you so kindly for your (imagined) generosity and going out of your way to accommodate us in YOUR party.
and small government conservatives. I really want to see Huck win when they all decide they just don't give a c*** whether Huck or Obama wins.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I will never ever vote for your socialist candidate but you deserve all the credit. Romney got whipped like a one-legged man in an butt-kicking contest.
And I love to see Romney squirm.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
When Huck is the answer to a trivia question twenty years from now, just like Pat Robertson is today. And to be fair to Robertson, he actually was a bonafide conservative when he won Iowa twenty years ago. He deserved better than one state, but that's all he got. Que sera, sera.
Huckabee deserves zero states, but Iowa had a fit of madness. Que sera, sera. It will be his only state.
Bye, Mike. And take your holier-than-thou faux conservatism with you. I've said it before, but I'll repeat it here: If it's Huckabee or McCain (or Paul, but he has no realistic chance), I write in Mickey Mouse in the general election. And all you single-issue pro-life voters will have to deal with President Hillary or Obama. Get used to it.
have to deal with it too, unless you plan on moving out of the country.
If we're going to be stuck with an inept, big government tax-and-spend liberal socialist for the next four years, I'd rather have it be someone with a D after his name than a Democrat in drag like Huckabee.
And I really do think it's hilarious how you single-issue Huck supporters will now have to face the prospect of having your candidate go down in flames when philosophical (i.e. fiscally responsible, small-government) conservatives stay home on election day. Shoe's on the other foot now, isn't it? Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, and cry in your Shirley Temples on election day (if the Huckster actually gets the nomination, that is)...
I have held back my opinions from this site as of late. The anti-Huckabee posts have been so vitriolic it's unbelievable.
There are NO Reagan like Republicans in this field, period. So let's not delude ourselves. The GOP in general has lost its conservative course in Washington. Is Huckabee the answer, maybe. Then, again, so may Fred Thompson, but he better get in gear and fast. The deck is stacked against the GOP in this election cycle so it's not just the rank and file Republicans that need convincing.
The term Laura Ingraham gave tonight on Romney is perfect. He comes across as a patrician. Huckabee does come across as an everyday guy and has the results to back it up. But I believe Huckabee has the chance to better relate to the average guy than anyone else in this field.
I will support anyone in the GOP over the Democrats, but we in the GOP must do a better job of getting the message across to the country. Otherwise, a Democrat will most definitely be occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Jan. '09.
This guy hit his high water mark in 1984 when he worked for Reagan. Since then, he has manned liberal Republican campaigns such as Michael Huffington and Christie Todd Whittman (both staunch pro-choicers, mind you). He also ran Ross Perot's populist socially liberal campaign - and we all know we have that fiasco to thank for 8 years of Bill Clinton.
He was on Fox tonight talking about again how the GOP needs to be more populist, and he got kinda nasty and rude with Chris Wallace for no reason.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
The guy melted down. heh.
As I posted before - with a good showing here, I hope thompson can syphon the Romney campaign's voters and win it all. :)
He was quoted somewhere as saying he would like to knock out Romney's teeth, and the context left no doubt that he meant it literally, and wasn't just a metaphor for elections. He also said in the same article that he loved negative campaigning and getting down and dirty. How Huck could hire this guy as his campaign chair and still say that he's a clean, wholesome campaigner is beyond me.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
Apparently now pro-life, left wing populism now = conservatism
Thanks a lot Iowa
And before Huckabee shot up, these thoughts would have applied to the anti-Rudy crowd:
but some of the attacks that have been made against him on this website border on being ridiculous. At some point, we're all going to have to start singing from the same hymnal again, and that's not going to be easy to do if folks continue to characterize a potential nominee of our party as the anti-Christ.
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I can't see how Huckabee has any chance to win the general election. If this "revenge" attitude keeps up and he wins the nomination, then more than likely loses the election, it will damage Christian conservative influence in politics.
And btw, how about telling Huckabee supporters to quit thinking those of us who criticize the saint must only be evangelical haters or atheists?
"And btw, how about telling Huckabee supporters to quit thinking those of us who criticize the saint must only be evangelical haters or atheists?"
That self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude will never go away. Tow the line or pay. That's why they hate Giuliani despite his proven record and why they abandoned Fred for speaking the truth about federalsim.
Mark, spot on. I'd be very interested in knowing how those sainting Gov. Huckabee would characterize the rest of us who disagree. Is it easier in biblical terms?
Zealots?
Sadducees?
Pagans?
Gentiles?
By the anti-Mormon comments on Gov. Huckabee's own presidential website, guessing they would get labeled the leppers.
tossed at me by a Huckabee supporter was that I was gullible. Of course he went on to just accept Huckabees defense of his parole record etc. so I didnt consider him all that much of an authority on being gullible except by personal experience.
That guy has also made positive comments before about having a theocracy in this country.
So that's why Iran is so warm to Huckabee
Huckabee is a white guilt-ridden clown, and his nomination would likely be a disaster, but the whole theocracy thing sounds like something the ridiculous Keith Olbermann would say.
that the hostility towards Huck needs to be moderate. Although I don't support him, he represents an important slice of a winning GOP coalition.
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that there are only two possible winners in SC (Huck or McCain). If Romney fades, the 30% of the party that was supporting him is going to look for another conservative-across-the-board candidate, and there Fred Thompson will be waiting for a second look. He should play particularly well in SC. We'll see.
They don't seem to mean the same things as when I do.
You call this the revenge of the SoCons. Let me ask just how do you think the rest of the party is going to feel about bearing the brunt of your vengeance ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
My point in using the word "revenge" has to do with those within our party who said at the beginning of this race that social issues would have to take a back seat to national-security issues. Well, tonight, SoCons sent a message: Culture of Life issues still matter.
I am not why your interpretation of "Culture of Life" would differ from mine. Perhaps you can explain exactly what you mean.
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Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
Even you do it. Everyone of the Republican candidates competing in Iowa was solidly pro life. Mitt, McCain, Thompson, even loony man Ron Paul are all impeccably pro life. Rudy has even sworn allegiance and he wasn't even running. So when you assert culture of life is the issue when there is no disagreement on it, it obviously means something else.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Methinks you're painting with too broad of a brush., my friend. McCain supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Fred does not fully support the GOP plank on abortion. Mitt's record on prolife issues is sketchy at best. Ron Paul is, well, Ron Paul.
I am not saying that I don't consider any of the foregoing candidates prolife. Indeed, I think all of them clearly are prolife (even Romney). But to suggest there isn't a huge difference in Huck's commitment to "Culture of Life" issues to that of his competitors is just plain silly.
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Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
....is enough to overlook serious problems in Huck's record and platform?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
I give you this though, I didn't know McCain was pro ESCR its one more reason for me not to like him.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
So just as social conservatives can look at their support for Mike Huckabee as a protest against the Republican establishment and maverick moderates can look at their support for John McCain as a protest against tax cutting opponents of amnesty, across the board conservatives can leave the presidential portion of the general election ballot blank in November if either McCain or Huckabee wins the GOP nomination.
Currently, I have a perfect record of supporting Republicans for president. But this perfect record will be broken if either McCain or Huckabee wins the nomination.
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Editor for The Hinzsight Report
To have the republican caucus in the house and senate fighting to the right against a dem president than it is to have a republican president pulling to the left.
Please, no more presidents fighting for amnesty, no more Harriet Myers like nominations and most of all, no more republicans that spend on social programs like FDR.
I wouldn't be concerned about a Democrat presidency next year if I thought we would have the house or senate. The unfortunate truth is though that unless we win the presidency, the Democrats will very likely have absolute control of the government and the congress will rubber stamp every single goddamn thing President Hillary or Obama put forth.
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Doing that will prime us for another '94. Particularly if there is a national figure promising budget sanity and action on illegal immigration.
because Huckabee's position on abortion was the same as Fred Thompson's not long ago.
The federalist approach is the one with the most likely chance of success in moving this country in a pro-life direction that will have a lasting effect, rather than just swing back and forth from one extreme to another.
Huckabee's win in Iowa sends a message to the GOP establishment that SoCons are not going to sit back and allow the party to be hijacked by those who don't have our interests at heart. We are still the heart and soul of the party, and we're not going anywhere. If you want the nomination, you're going to have to deal with us and our concerns (i.e., "Culture of Life" issues).
So Thompson, McCain, and even Romney are just laughing the so-cons off? Last I checked, the only candidate who didn't toe the line, at the very least, on social issues was Rudy, and he skipped Iowa.
Huckabee's win demonstrates that grass-roots conservatives have flatly rejected the candidacy of Mitt Romney. Mitt can stay in as long as he wishes to fund his own campaign, but he's essentially done.
Let me stop laughing for a moment.
OK, now that that's done, Romney beat everyone but Huckabee by a solid margin. Is Mitt a grass-roots candidate? No. But our party is not merely grass-roots. If that was the case, Ron Paul would have won the night. His grass-roots support easily beats Huckabee every time. Huckabee is enjoying a surge because of a lack of scrutiny in the MSM and because of his Christian-identity politics (which, as a Christian, I find to be abhorant).
Huckabee desperately needs to reach out to FisCons and DefCons immediately if he stands any chance of winning the nomination and/or presidency. The brutal truth, Huckfans, is that there are many legitimate criticisms of our boy regarding his fidelity to fiscal conservatism and preparedness to handle complex national security issues. He needs to deal with these concerns in a way that shows his skeptics within he party that he is ready to be the nominee of the entire party, not just SoCons.
I have to give you props on this one. It's about the only thing I agreed with in this entire post.
the hostility currently being leveled at Huckabee by many Republicans needs to be dialed down a few notches. If you want to criticize him on substantive grounds, please feel free to do so (indeed, I've done so myself); but some of the attacks that have been made against him on this website border on being ridiculous.
Please expand on this last part, because most everyone has been criticizing him for exactly that-he is hiding from his record as governor, and playing identity politics, hoping that his bonafides as a Baptist will be enough to add a white mansion at 1600 Pennsylvania to his golden mansion in Heaven. His supporters all cry out religious bigotry when you criticize his immigration record, yet think nothing of his out-loud thought on whether Mormons thought Jesus and Satan are brothers.
Finally, Ron Paul still sucks.
OK, I lied up above. I agree with this too.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
So Thompson, McCain, and even Romney are just laughing the so-cons off?
They did all snub the Values Voter Debate, remember?
That's odd-I thought I was pretty socially conservative, and yet I don't even pay attention to the FRC.
Look at their stances and see where they disagree with the so-cons. Then get back to me.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
Brother,
This 'aint gonna' happen.
DefCONS. Gov. Huckabee has made too many glaring gaffes on national security issues. His desire to coddle up to Iran, close Git'mo, his inability to know if Afghanistan is East or West of Pakistan and flubbing the NIE report is too big a pill to swallow, even if cut in half. If Mitt's support goes elsewhere, it will be to McCain, Thompson and Giuliani depending on the state.
FisCONS. When you label a grassroots group (Club for Growth) the Club for Greed, you're not getting any FisCON kudos. Gov. Huckabee's tax and spend ways were as liberal as the day is long. Rush pointed asmuch out this week when he said instead of accepting whatever tax increase came across his desk, a real FisCON would have fought for cuts elsewhere in the budget.
Advantage to Thompson, Giuliani and McCain in that order.
Depending on further flubs, Gov. Huckabee is in the fight of his life for first in SC. If he can't repeat, he's done, finito. The continued McCain/Huckabee back-room deals will come to a halt in SC. If Ed Rollins could get a nap and cool a bit, he'd realize SC is moving towards McCain.
This all is going to get bloodier. Giuliani may still pose a chance having skipped out the bloodbaths leading up to Florida.
Nice score in Iowa Gov. Huckabee. Time to double down.
"Rush pointed as much out this week when he said instead of accepting whatever tax increase came across his desk, a real FisCON would have fought for cuts elsewhere in the budget."
Rush has repeatedly tried to stay neutral on the primary, but it's real obvious that over-reaching by Huck supporters have pushed him over the edge.
Nice try, Huck is no Reagan.
(Though granted of the Fusion Conservative type)
I've had enough of the slimy Arkansas politics with Clinton.
The Jesus and Satan are brothers comment, the I'm gonna run a positive campaign so let me show the ad I would have run if I wanted too...
Not only does it disgust me, but it insults my intelligence.
The hostility to Huckabee has little to do with his Social Conservatism (maybe a it does to a few gadflys but not to most of us).
In fact I liked Huckabee until he started with all the slick Willie style politics.
It was Rudy Guiliani that I was worried about, cause I don't want him as the candidate.
Trying to claim this as a victory for Social Conservatives is foolish- a Pyhrric victory perhaps.
Social Conservatives and Fiscal Conservatives need to stick together and support straight forward politics. Not all this Tricky Dick stuff, (Don't forget Nixon also played the populist card too- remember the price controls?)
Romney or Thompson would be good B+ candidates. McCain would be an endurable C.
Guilaini is a F flirting with an D-, while Huckabee is so far below an F that the alphabet doesn't have letter to adequately describe it.
to the SNL bit with French Stewart answering "Threeve" to a question asking for any number on Jeopardy?
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
Now you made me go find that video...
(Sorry, I had to inject some levity and expand on your post. The results of Iowa are just as disgusting and depressing as watching Kansas winning the Orange Bowl. Talk about a downer double-header.
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“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Tonight is a horrible night!
(and, for all non-Mizzou fans, there is a reason for the lowercase k in kU. Capitalization is reserved for a proper noun, and kansas is neither a proper place, nor a proper thing. Simple grammar.)
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
>>>Romney or Thompson would be good B+ candidates. McCain would be an endurable C. Guilaini is a F flirting with an D-, while Huckabee is so far below an F that the alphabet doesn't have letter to adequately describe it.<<<
Perfect analysis.
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“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
in your analogy, Huck could get an "I" for "incomplete."
And I say that as one of the most conservative evangelicals who has ever conserved a conservative evangelical.
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
Alexham,
I find it very hard to believe that SoCons have been ignored. We just spent the last eight years with a president that got there by courting the evangelical vote and attempted to deliver on his promises to them. [Problem wasn't with Repubs...it was the fact that there wasn't a clear supermajority of congress to enact some of the proposals. As for the insistence that FMA and HLA are the only ways someone can be conservative: Please give me a break. Is it not conservative to want to overturn Roe...I would have to say that every Repub running wants to see that happen. And why do we really need a constitutional amendment to define marriage. It seems to me that even in those states where gay marriage was allowed that things have already begun to swing back to the traditional marriage. Besides...legal recognition or not, gay couples will still continue to live their lives the same way.]
There are other candidates on the table that are socially conservative also:
Fred Thompson has received several conservative prolife endorsements. He had a 100% prolife voting record.
John McCain has been very reliable also.
Others state their positions as pro-life...argue that they flipped to get elected...but it is their stated position.
Why do I have to buy into the notion that if I'm a SoCon that I must vote for Huck. I actually consider myself to be a So-Fis-Def Con (and pretty much any of the other tags people throw around...GWOT, etc). Huck is good on SoCon but def not so good on the others. His record as Gov is mixed in respects to fiscal matters and he has recently made comments about foreign events that make me believe that he wouldn't have a clue how to run our foreign policy.
Hope all you Huck supporters enjoy the ENTIRE U.S. Map going Blue for Barack Obama now that you've anointed Gomer Pyle to sainthood. Ed Rollins is a loser!
That's a good word to describe it. Do you know what revenge leads to? Isolation.
Yes, So-cons deserve a place at the table. They showed what they could do when they shot Giuliani in the leg. A heady feeling, I'm sure. As a total conservative, I heard the so-con voice.
When I started this journey, Giuliani was at the top of my list. I wanted a social conservative, but was willing to take Giuliani's reassurances. As so-cons protested, I questioned, reconsidered, and ultimately downgraded Giuliani. By December, Giuliani was fourth on my list of the top 5.
After eating Giuliani alive, the so-cons decided they wanted more. Needed more. And in the ultimate act of revenge, they have rejected two unity candidates in favor of Huckabee.
I predict a Democratic win.
It all depends on whether the evangelicals come to their senses in time to save the party. New Hampshire won't be a good indicator, but South Carolina might.
Besides, coming from a Missourian, Iowans have always had a little bit of a thing for populists. I didn't think that they would go this far, though. They've proven to me tonight that they do not deserve their first-in-the-nation status. How 36% of a party could reject two or even three legs of the conservative movement for one (and one who has only run a Christian campaign) is beyond me. I wish people would realize that Reagan, Bush(W), and others were leaders that happened to be Christians. Huckabee is a Christian who happens to be a leader (and a very poor one at that).
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
I guess I should revise that. If Alexham were speaking for all the Iowans who voted Huckabee, and if those Iowans spoke for all the other so-cons in the nation, I would say we're already lost.
As it is, what I'm really seeing is a brokered convention. And the good news is that Huckabee is the one with no chance in a brokered convention.
Huckabee is running as the anti-establishment candidate. The thing is, he's not the only one. I would say Romney and Fred, to certain extents, are very anti-establishment.
What needs to be drilled is that Huckabee is not anti-establishment. He's anti-conservative. He's only anti-establishment because the establishment would like to see a conservative candidate, and Huckabee realizes that he doesn't have the track record to meet that requirement. He's angered about it, and fighting against it.
The establishment didn't really start to go against him until he angered Rush, though. Rush was on the sidelines until Huckabee took him on. That's when he started giving his anti-endorsements.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
... Giuliani has got a lot of problems, but being "shot in the leg" by socons wasn't one of them. It was more like he was shot in the leg by Bernard Kerik, his son who'd rather play golf than help him campaign, and his daughter who won't stop parading her political affection for Barack Obama. [1] Sorry, Rudy has his own issues, and right now they've got little or nothing to do with socons.
Furthermore, if you're willing to give up on the GOP if it nominates Huckabee I question your loyalty to the party. I would have backed Rudy to the hilt if he had won the nomination, even despite his many scandals and personal defects. I still will if he somehow pulls out a win. The same goes for McCain, Thompson, Romney ... or anybody but Ron Paul. Party loyalty isn't about only supporting the party if you get your way.
[1] http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/08/a_giuliani_...
Hang all traitors and secessionists! Hang them high!
- Me
I must disagree, to a point. I agree his personal problems have definitely hurt him, a lot of people left Rudy because evangelicals declared they would vote third party if he was nominated. Not wanting to alienate them, many began looking for someone who could better appeal to everyone. However, tonight social conservatives showed us that while they are unwilling to compromise on their favorite issues, they expect EVERYONE ELSE to do so to win.
>>>tonight social conservatives showed us that while they are unwilling to compromise on their favorite issues, they expect EVERYONE ELSE to do so to win.<<<
Look pal, voting for one's candidate (which is what happened tonight) does not imply that they are "unwilling to compromise" or that they expect "EVERYONE ELSE" to do anything. Get a grip. If Rudy had won, do you think that would imply that the DefCons were "unwilling to compromise?" Sheesh.
I'm a staunch pro-life social conservative and I also detest Huckabee. But I'm also capable of using a bit of logic, and yours is deeply flawed.
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And they have played some part in my decision.
Furthermore, if you're willing to give up on the GOP if it nominates Huckabee I question your loyalty to the party.
I'm a loyal conservative. The party only has my loyalty if it remains conservative.
First off, sincere congrats to your guy on a thorough and comprehensive win. Well done, Huck. Well done indeed.
Second, thanks to you - this was a great piece. And I can only guess that you must have had to fight pretty hard against the urge to do a little "end zone dancing" - I don't think anyone would begrudge you. On a night when you are certainly entitled to a little gloating, I thought this was very balanced, nicely done. Thanks again.
On some individual points...
... Governor Huckabee's win demonstrates that grass-roots conservatives have flatly rejected the candidacy of Mitt Romney.
Well, grassroots conservatives in Iowa at least - clearly. Cannot argue with that. How this translates nationally is anyone's guess, but I think in general you may be more right than wrong. My guy is most certainly up to his eyeballs in doo-doo after this one - be interesting to see how he recovers.
My hope? He fires the dopes who convinced him that "going negative" was the right thing to do and replaces them with new dopes who will convince him to "stay positive". Alas, I don't think that's the route he's going to choose.
... Governor Huckabee desperately needs to reach out to FisCons and DefCons immediately if he stands any chance of winning the nomination and/or presidency.
I agree completely and I for one am very interested to see if and how Huck tries to square these circles. But let's be honest (as you are up top), he has a fair queue of his own recent past statements to overcome on this regard. I personally think the NatSec will be easier to overcome (bring a few advisors on board and stop talking about putting boots on the ground in Pakistan), but I am and remain very, very skeptical that he's not Huey Long reincarnate vis-a-vis fiscal issues.
So, let's see how he does.
Finally...
... the hostility currently being leveled at Huckabee by many Republicans needs to be dialed down a few notches.
Well, true - but then again the same thing could just as easily be said about the "astroturfer in chief", right?
Again, most sincere congratulations.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
...he has taken an antagonistic approach with them. He calls them names or refers to them as "fat cats". Huck winning primaries will view that as a vindication of his strategy - that is "we don't need these elitist fat cat fiscal conservatives to win".
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
...has Huck winning by cornering the socon vote, with everyone else splitting the other 65% of the party. This could conceivable give Huck the nomination without having to reach out to anyone.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
... I'm willing to suspend disbelief for a time to give Governor LongHuckabee the opportunity to convince me that he's not a pro-life John Edwards.
And if he doesn't and is unwilling to do that? Well, as Alex said, he deserves to (and will) lose.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Loved that one, thanks for the chuckle!
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
Is that it doesn't even matter if he tries to reach out because he has a record of dishonesty, especially when it comes to fiscal matters. I have zero trust in the man. He can promise me whatever I want, but those promises will have less weight than if Bill Clinton was making them.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
I am a "So-Con" & a "Fi-Con" (if we must have labels) and I never supported Huckabee
Scheech!
Joanie
RV Wanna-be
Maddie the Wonderdog
"apackof2, coming to a town near you!"
It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lamentations 3:22
Nick Haynes got it exactly right.He's enjoying a surge because lack of scrutiny by the MSM.That's what's goin' on here.Their giving him a free ride hoping the ignorant masses swallow their crap.
If you think that conservatives will vote for Mike Huckabee or John McCain because, "Hey, at least they are better than Clinton or Obama," think again.
Conservatives are tired of hearing that the Republican party has to give up its interest in lower taxes and opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants in order to win the hearts and minds of Americans.
I think that Americans don't like the high taxes that Huckabee stands for, the opposition to tax cuts that McCain stands for, the in-state tuition that Huckabee supported and the amnesty for illegal immigrants that McCain proposed.
Sure, social conservatives might be willing to vote for Huckabee in November because he attends the same church as they do. But many die hard conservatives beleive that conservatism requires more than saying "I'm a Christian leader and we must raise you taxes again." Conservative support and appreciate military service. But conservatives aren't going to support a so-called Republican who is closer in viewpoint to the New York Times editorial page than a conservative radio talk show host.
If you think that conservatives will just vote for the lesser of two evils in Huckabee or McCain, you are wrong. And you will find out come November.
Can you say, "President Obama?"
Everyone here knows that I cannot stand John McCain, and this Huck guy is running on one thing that will not be enough to win in November. However, I will say that if it's Huck on the top of the ticket vs. the Dems, I will reluctantly vote for him. If it's McCain, then I will not vote for any Pres. candidate.
Standing athwart history yelling stop!!!! http://nationalwhig.blogspot.com
Huckabee signed a NO TAX PLEDGE. You know....IN WRITING. The guy was governor of a state with a balanced-budget amendment. Heck, if the federal government had one, Republicans would have to raise taxes too, since noone seems to know how to realistically cut spending. I for one, am very happy with the results of today's election. I think Mitt Romney's "contrast" ads made him the only negative candidate in the field, and considering he is the most plastic guy in the field who obviously can't connect with the hearts and minds of voters, I hope that McCain trounces him in New Hampshire and he folds his tent. Congrats to Governor Huckabee. Now PLEASE reach out to fiscal and defense conservatives and show you are not just a one-trick pony!!
....I think he will raise taxes for a couple of reasons.
#1 He has a track record
#2 He is an economic "progressive", therefore he will not be able to help it. He will insist it is "for the children" and liberals progressives will cheer.
footnote: signing a pledge means nothing to a progressive who is "trying to help the disadvantaged". You should have watched him on Leno talk about being able to help the less fortunate. He said it like a true liberal progressive.
Have you not payed attention when Democrats run the taxes playbook? The MSM will cheer him for being courageous and standing up to the mean conservatives and give him cover.
I do not have a good feeling about this but that is just my opinion.
Wubbies World, MSgt, USAF (Retired):
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("An argument is a sequence of statements aimed at demonstrating the truth of an assertion.); }
Bush's "no tax pledge" wasn't in writing, but it sure was recorded for posterity on TV, radio, etc. The Huckster's "NO TAX PLEDGE" isn't worth the paper it's written on.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ
“You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Reaching out is what Romney has done. It is the single point on which he has been attacked mercilessly.
Romney, possibly the most ethical and honorable man in the race - a guy who really understands what it means to love thy neighbor - has had buckets of mud thrown in his face, partly by the very people he reached out to. Classy.
Romney fought for so-con principles as Governor, before the race ever began. He has clearly and powerfully staked his fortune in the so-con camp in this race. Now Huckabee is going to flip mid-race on fiscal, defense, and immigration issues and get a warm reception? After his populist rhetoric as recent as Iowa?
But name dropping foreign policy advisers that actually are not advising him (Bolton) or whose advice he isn't following (Gaffney) isnt the trick to help the Huck pony.
And how can you claim Mitt was the only negative candidate in the field after that ad that won't be shown actually was shown? At best, Huck is just more sly at being negative than the other candidates. Then again, criticizing his record is negative? Perhaps you and he should consider that's because he has such a negative record.
"Third, Governor Huckabee desperately needs to reach out to FisCons and DefCons immediately if he stands any chance of winning the nomination and/or presidency. The brutal truth, Huckfans, is that there are many legitimate criticisms of our boy regarding his fidelity to fiscal conservatism and preparedness to handle complex national security issues."
I agree and it needs to be real!
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
BTWW, if he keeps that clod Rollins around he will tick off everybody.
I'm extremely glad that Huckabee won Iowa. Because it takes Fred Thompson one step closer to the nomination.
You're scratching your head going, "How d'you figure?"
Third, Governor Huckabee desperately needs to reach out to FisCons and DefCons immediately if he stands any chance of winning the nomination and/or presidency. The brutal truth, Huckfans, is that there are many legitimate criticisms of our boy regarding his fidelity to fiscal conservatism and preparedness to handle complex national security issues. He needs to deal with these concerns in a way that shows his skeptics within he party that he is ready to be the nominee of the entire party, not just SoCons.
Thinking that this would work is about as likely as thinking that Rudy could win the SoCons over by imediately 'reaching out' to them to show his skeptics within the party that he is ready to be the nominee of the entire party, not just the neoCons.
Will. Never. Happen.
Huckabee is unacceptable to the FisCons and NeoCons. Romney is apparently unpalatable to a large block of SoCons. Rudy is unacceptable to most SoCons, and a few FisCons. McCain is unacceptable to allCons. Paul is unacceptable to saneCons.
And every conservative has FDT as their first or second choice. He is the compromise candidate. If conventions still meant something, he would emerge as the nominee after backroom politicking by the party bosses; as things stand, we have to wait for the primary voters to wake up to this reality.
We'll see what happens to the fundraising. As I see it, the smart operators should be putting money into the Thompson campaign. Huckabee will fracture the party, and is unelectable in the general election. Romney by coming in second with all of his money and all of his organization was dealt a serious blow.
If I'm wrong, then Huckabee should start to raise serious money. If he doesn't... then I'm feeling good about Thompson.
-TS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
Romney is apparently unpalatable to a large block of SoCons.
You cannot conclude that from the Iowa results. If the Iowans had truly wanted a full-spectrum conservative candidate, but found Romney's so-con cred to be a stumbling block, we would have seen a Thompson win, or at least second place. No, I think Alexham got it right, at least for Iowa. They wanted no compromise.
And every conservative has FDT as their first or second choice.
I think McCain is the most common second choice. He's probably the biggest winner from the Iowa fallout.
How can a guy that's so hated by so many conservatives by considered the "second choice?"
Last time someone did a big poll that I remember, McCain had the most second place votes.
I don't remember that. Seems like McCain has been stuck in 3rd place on every poll I've seen on here, with tons of votes for Mitt and Fred putting them in the #1 and #2 slots.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Here is the link to the poll you requested.
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/wubbies_world/2007/dec/31/red_state_commun...
P.S. Mitt is a very very weak second, and McCain is a weak third.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
Founder and contributor to The Minority Report and Editor for The Hinzsight Report
I suppose I could have addressed this to any Fred supporter really, but what the heck...
Uh, is there any result that could have come out of Iowa tonight that would not have been good news for Fred?
Because I'm thinking that after setting-up housekeeping in Iowa the last month beating Mr. No-Ethanol-Subsidies-For-You by a couple hundred votes for a well-off-the-pace 3rd place is a bit of a let-down. I know I'm disappointed in that finish by Thompson. But then again, Fred isn't my first choice so I'm left to wonder what I'm missing.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
And it was a strategic choice he had to make. He started late in an early race and came out just behind a guy who had been campaigning there since the patriarchs walked the earth.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Good luck to his campaign trying to match that with expectations.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
For having been living there for only a month he did a pretty good job. All those other guys have been living there off and on for almost a year.
Everyone needs to not sweat this Huckabee thing. He won by pandering. Enough info has come out of this to show who he really is. The rest of the candidates need to stick with issues and what they think is important. Being a conservative will when out in the primaries. It always does.
Off to the next primary! Man this is fun!!!!!
If he had come in a distant fourth -- say around 8% of the vote or so -- then yes, that would have been bad news.
If Romney had won the thing running away, that would have been bad news for Thompson.
If McCain had somehow pulled out a win, that would have been bad news for Thompson.
The way I see it, there are two candidates that are so polarizing that I can't think of a way that they would get the nomination without tearing
Now we get to hear how this didn't matter, and Huck's not a conservative, and all that.
Of course, if the Huckaboom continues, then what?
I remember arguing with contributors on this site who kept saying Romney was inevitable.
He wasn't, and isn't. Neither is Rudy. The grassroots SoCon vote is back, and boy is it ticked.
Bye Romney. Eventually, bye Rudy.
Fred? Not bad. I can live with that. McCain? Not my first choice, but I've heard a lot worse ideas. But the Northeastern liberals will soon be gone, and Huckabee may just still be standing.
Isn't that just a hoot?