Redstate

Stevens bottled up Coburn's bill because he could. Actions have consequences; Coburn interfered with something Stevens wanted, Stevens interfered with something Coburn wanted. Like it or not, it is the way it works.

In Vino Veritas

I think you are quite right, and the sad part is that Republicans in general are not outraged at this sort of behavior, this is what politics has become.

Look for more of the same over the next two years as President Bush enters full Lame Duck status, and Iraq situation either resolves or deteriorates.

if I thought it would do any good or change anything. America changed from a republic to an empire a long, long time ago; I just try to do as well as I can in the Imperial Style. And why fight it, we've won the lottery of life; we were born with American passports.

In Vino Veritas

We were the heirs to the republic and liberty. Somehow that patrimony was stolen while we weren't looking. Its time to get it back.

Says that the Dem Senator is Robert KKK. Byrd, the master of pork.

Fiscal conservative Coburn saves us 200 million dollars by thwarting Stevens' plan to build a bridge to a city with 50, yes 50 people. In retaliation, Stevens gets back at Coburn by killing a bill that would make ALL pork spending easily searchable by the general public.

So Coburn's noble intentions have consequences, but Stevens' corruption will be of no consequence, as he will be a faux fiscal conservative until he retires. Nice.

It's not the frame of the issue I would choose. This is not, or should not be a Quid Pro Que exchange over Coburn's attack on Stephens Pork. The hold on the bill was to keep the whole process of PORK secret and away from the eyes of John Q. Citizen. Stephens is trying to prop up a failed spoils system, that he and Robert Byrd are the masters of.

The idea of all spending being done in the full light of day is where I would like think all Republicans support. If the project is worthy, public scrutiny is a good thing.

in the federal budget; they lose track of that much in rounding errors in a single department. And the bridge of which you complain connects the city of Ketchikan to its airport, which happens to be on an island that has few people on it - because you can't readily get there. That bridge is indeed pork, but it is no more pork than any other bridge in the country built with federal highway funds.

The KTN bridge is really only collateral damage in this fight; the real issue is the Knik Arm bridge, which when completed would make Anchorage a significant competitor in container traffic for SEA, SF, and LA. That is the real source of opposition.

In Vino Veritas

Look at the map of Ketchikan, Alaska. It's not like the bridge would replace a ferry; in fact the only way in and out of the city (other than the airport) is the Alaska Marine Highway.

There are a lot better uses for $200 million.

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Internet member since 1987
Member of the Surreality-Based Community

Next time you need emergency surgery, take a two day boat ride to get it, that's how long it takes to get from KTN to Bellingham, WA by ferry - and then it's a couple more hours to SEA. As is the case with almost every town and city in Alaska, the lifeblood is the airport.

In Vino Veritas

Having been to Alaska, I can now see where I was wrong in criticizing the bridge (not Stevens, though-the Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport convinced me I was right on that issue). Taking a seaplane flight and finding out that seaplanes are a primary mode of transportation because of the impossibility of building roads, highways, etc.? The place is hard to get around in, and many Alaskans are right-we seem to look at them as a resource rather than an equal. Does ANWR ring a bell? I would look at this particular project as an investment rather than an earmark.

Don't be afraid to see what you see.-Ronald Reagan

The place is hard to get around in, and many Alaskans are right-we seem to look at them as a resource rather than an equal.

That is just bull. We see them as we see any other state. Every state has resources. Every state has major infrastructure issues. Every state has good and bad things about living there. Just look at how severely underbuilt we are to handle rush hour traffic in major metropolitian areas. How much money do we lose as a country to everybody sitting in traffic for hundreds of hours a year when they could be doing something productive? Speaking of oil, how much oil do we waste parked on gridlocked freeways?

None of that is a reason for the Feds to collect money and redistribute it how they see fit, for the projects that with their strings attached. The Feds shouldn't be involved in funding roads and bridges.

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"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

In Vino Veritas

But you don't see me justifying it either... talking about how essential our $50 million road upgrade to nowhere is and the fact that it is an essential trade link with Canada that needs to be upgraded for capacity and safety reasons. I'm sure the Congressman could even invoke national security in defending that road. That is an easy game to play (as it is with the bridge to nowhere), but I don't work for the idiot Congressman(D) who earmarked it, so I don't have to play that game.
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"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

TSAIA is known to local wags as the Stevens Mausoleum. It is gaudy, isn't it? And what was the logic of the Bill Sheffield ( a Democrat former governor) Depot at the airport that whisks the tourists out of time before they can spend any money?

In Vino Veritas

Based on the info in this article from the Washington Times this morning:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060830-111903-1556r.htm

If Stevens was really interested in the cost-benefit analyis of the bill (where was this in the bridge to nowhere?) he could have communicated this during any of the hearing he chose not to attend.

Yes, its payback, and the rest of us will remember that when Stevens comes to us for help.

Senate and House seats are purely local affairs, by design. Stevens does not need "us" as long as the voters in Alaska approve of him. To the extent that he is seen as fighting for Alaska against outside forces his local approval will probably increase.

Then the RNC, RNSC, and any national PACs won't need to send him any money or other aid, right?
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If you're seeing shades of gray, it's because you're not looking close enough to see the black and white dots.

hoped you'd get the joke

but I guess I'm just not very "jokey" on this subject. Alaska is one of the Reddest of the Red States. We've had a Republican Congressional delegation since 1980. We've had a Republican House and Senate for the last 15 years and controlled one or the other for nearly thirty years. I have been a part of that Republican ascendency for the last twenty years in both the legislative and executive branches.

Granted, Alaska's state politics are as much libertarian as mainstream Republican, but that doesn't distinguish us from the rest of the Mountain West. Granted, Alaska's delegation enthusiastically practices the politics of self-interest, but that does not distinguish them either.

Alaska was built by New Deal Democrats to be run by New Deal Democrats, yet Alaska Republicans have managed to grasp that beast and control it for far longer than most states have remained in Republican control. Do we compromise on pure ideological conservative or Republican positions, of course, but we govern; we don't blog and try to figure out how some day we might govern. Things are so much easier and pure when you're not the one with your name on the door.

In Vino Veritas

in russian hands ??

Is tax contribution actually that important ? It mostly winds up in the hands of people that would better serve the community making an honest living. (By example New Orleans)

If we were all that sensitive to criticism about the democratic rights of occupied territorities, how did we manage to convert bikini island to an atoll ?

I agree with you that what we did with alaska and hawaii was in our interest, but it was in the indigenous peoples interest as well. The best argument for this is to compare like territorities from the turn of the century. The places we have the greatest degree of interaction with have done consistently better than those that have a lesser degree of interaction. (highest interaction naturally being incorporation)

On the whole gift giving trope, pork isnt a gift to the people in a state. Its a gift to a few well connected political supporters. They get the ham the constituents generally get what comes out the back of the pig.

wherever you're from would be better off under English, French, or Spanish rule? What a stupid question. But I do believe that Alaska would be better off if it were afforded the rights, priviledges, and immunities that other Americans take for granted.

In Vino Veritas

I am perfectly willing to cop to not knowing much about Alaska. This is despite fantasizing about moving there every summer. What rights priveleges and immunities are Alaskans being denied ?

This may sound very naieve but If I were being denied my rights I would want my senator fighting for me not some fat cat connected contractors. On this matter I can speak from experience. When a company is getting pork because its minority owned or because the owner is connected, theres only one or two people in the company deriving any good from that. The owner or owners usually plays very hard ball with the employees because he figures he can.

As I said If my state tossed out our D senator, I would want to see his replacement doing something usefull. Opening up our coast for drilling, school vouchers, something. I wouldn't want our highways closed for grinding again. ( I can't figure out what purpose it was supposed to serve and I can't see any good it did.)

in the other thread on this, Krempasky's. This argument really isn't about the usual which contractor gets it like it might be in a Lower 48 state. The material and labor would be largely imported from the Lower 48 for a project this size.

In Vino Veritas