Conservative or Libertarian


That is the Question??

I guess it is very hard to actually pinpoint where I lie on the political spectrum.   I think I am a Libertarian Conservative as my friend Snooper has posted about.  As many of us on the Conservative/Libertarian side see the GOP going more and more left every day and getting farther and farther away from the basic principles that had drawn us to the Grand Old Party.   I agree a lot with what Snooper posted, to a certain extent, I am not a really big fan of Ron Paul and his minions.   But there is much the GOP needs to address to get back many of the Libertarian wing of the party.   I do not think that in this day and age, a third party is a viable option, there is too many obstacles put upbut both the RNC and DNC.

So where does that leave us, the ones that tend to be a little more Libertarian and not as much just Republicans, but believe in principles and the Founding Father’s intent.  Make no mistake, both the DNC and RNC have amultitude of power hungry politicians that do not do what is best for the country, and do what they think will get them elected or the next donation.  They are mainly charlatans and none have a firm backbone or stand on principle.   I may not agree with all of Ron Paul’s ideas, but at least he stands by his principles.   Just look at Sen Specter.   In his speech he pretty much said that he changed party just so he would win the next election,  as he did in his early career by the way.

Again where does that leave us???   My brother worked for the IL GOP House many years ago.  And it pretty much made him disgusted with the whole political process.   Just think, “you never really want to see how they make sausage”.  And that is our political system.   Hate it or not.  That is what we have got.   We have too many that do not care and will only read a little here or there about what is going on in DC, and even less on what is going on in the local government.   Too many care about who will won the next American Idol or who gets kicked off of Survivor to carewhat is happening to our country.

What I  think we need is to try and get the Voters to actually give a damn about what happens.  Too many have lost faith in our political system and have just given up and could care less.  Apathy is everywhere,  and all theshenanigans that our trusted leaders do every year does not help.  The thing is how to get people more involved and motivated to look into what is going on around them.  I do not know exactly how to do that.  If anyone has any ideas , leave a comment.

And then we on the right side of the aisle seem to always fight and stab each other in  the backs.  I know that we need to have a big tent in the GOP, but does that mean that we should leave the principles of Limited Government, Strong Defense and more Liberty at the door???  The Libertarians fight with the Neo-Cons, the paleo-cons fight with the Religious Right.   This needs to stop, or we will be left so far behind and be walking the wilderness for a long time to come.    We need to find the things we all agree on and stop fighting about the minutia.   There is not going to be any Political Party or Politician that I am going to agree with %100.  And I doubt that anyone out there will find one that will.  So we need to join together and fight against the real enemy, the Left in this country that wants to drag America into a European Socialist state, which Obama has be doing at a fast pace.


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Neither..... I'm an American.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Tuesday, May 26th at 11:36PM EST (link)

The Constitution, The Bill Of Rights, The Declaration Of Independence.

Oh yeah…. one other thing too if you’re so inclined, but not a requirement. Some folks may have heard of this itty-bitty book. It’s called The Bible. My people call it “The Torah”.

That’s a pretty good “party” and I know everybody’s welcome with open arms.

C’mon in and sit a spell.

Cheers !

Yes

Black River Wolf (Diary) Tuesday, May 26th at 11:42PM EST (link)

The Bible “Torah” are great places to look to for guidance in life.

If people would just read the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence, they would learn a lot, but too many think that we do not need them any more. WE have a living Constitution that should be interpreted and look for penumbras for things that were never envisioned by our Founding Fathers. If they want to change the Constitution, do it by the Amendment Process not thru the courts, like the Constitution says.

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 

Here's the common ground in this dark hour

civil truth (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 2:45AM EST (link)

Fiscal conservatism/limited government

This is common point that the conservatives, social conservatives, libertarians, and possibly paleocons and neocons can rally around.

As far as the differences on national defense – hopefully some common ground can be found to oppose Obama’s foreign policy lunacies.

Social issues – I think libertarian should at least respect social con positions that are defended on limited government grounds, while agreeing to disagree on the specific positions if they do differ (rather than hurling anathema).

But the highest priorityt and lodestone is fiscal conservatism/limited government.

The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis

http://www.gmsplace.com/

total agreement

kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 7:07AM EST (link)

this has to be the way to go, and we have to preach the problems with runaway government constantly

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

Totally agree

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 8:33AM EST (link)

that is the rallying point that all on the right should get behind

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

I feel like its too late

readmeat9 Wednesday, May 27th at 9:43AM EST (link)

Someone in history said this:
“A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.”

It seems like we are at that point now. I am not sure that the people will vote for fiscal conservatism. We all say we want it, but when the liberals came to hand out free stimulus money only a few governors said no thanks. I applaud the ones that did.

well, yeah that is right now

kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 10:04AM EST (link)

But how will they be feeling when unemployment and inflation are both near 20% ?

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

They will look to the Government

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 10:12AM EST (link)

They will just look for more handouts form the Fed Gov.

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 
 
 
 

I'm for small government, individual freedom, free market, and strong national security. I don't need labels. nt

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 5:48AM EST (link)

True

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 8:35AM EST (link)

that is sort of the point I think. I take a lot from all different political points of view. But we should rally around the principles we all believe in on the right.

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 

like you Stix I ahve limited options

kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 7:12AM EST (link)

I can fight with other conservatives who want to put too much emphasis on things like using government to promote their own social issues, or the war hawks who IMO have gone too far in trying to mold the world into our way of thinking (with poor results).

But in the long run, the Democrats prove no better on those issues and much, much worse on others so I have to oppose them.

However, I will not any more vote for a liberal Republican just because the democrat might be slightly worse, won’t ever do it again. That is just not a good policy.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

Agreed

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 8:43AM EST (link)

I am not fan of the Liberal Republicans either. I know that we will always have them though.

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 

Common ground

Diogenes314 (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 7:28AM EST (link)

Fiscal conservatism/limited government

This is common point that the conservatives, social conservatives, libertarians, and possibly paleocons and neocons can rally around.

Agreed.

As far as the differences on national defense – hopefully some common ground can be found to oppose Obama’s foreign policy lunacies.

The longer The One is in office, the more obvious the need for a serious foreign/defense policy will become.

Social issues – I think libertarian should at least respect social con positions that are defended on limited government grounds, while agreeing to disagree on the specific positions if they do differ (rather than hurling anathema).

Who cares if a libertarian wants to avoid abortion and gay marriage-as long as they are against judicial activism. Take the federal government out of the equation (eventually) and let the states and the people decide.

 

And I thought this was going to be an appeal to leave the party.

Brian Hibbert (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 7:53AM EST (link)

Yes, we need to stop the in fighting. We’ve been too busy killing off each other rather than battling the Democrats.

The next time you’re ready to skewer some other branch of the party for not adhering to core principles, just remember “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

We also need to quit with the “He started it!” mentality. As Kenny pointed out, most of us here are are people of the Book and one of the great lessons in the Book is to forgive others for wrongs. It’s hard work but we need to start putting this core principle to work.

Candidate for Trustee of Illinois Central College
Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Take back our party!
Check out Unified Patriots

Yes, I think most will

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 8:47AM EST (link)

think that it is a appeal to leave the GOP. But that will just give the Left more power, and have no competition at all.

it is better to change from within than from without.

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 

NEW!

Common_Cents (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 9:23AM EST (link)

Fiscal conservative, smaller government, etc…is BRAND NEW to millions of potential voters. They haven’t seen it in decades. It’s new and improved for some, but totally new to most voters.

We need some better PR/marketing people and actually put some solid product in the shiny new package this time around.

We have to sell benefits, not features. “smaller government” can send the wrong signal. That is telling people they will get less. How about “efficient government” getting more for less!

We need to sell benefits of how people will benefit from the features of conservatism. How will we be better off, not just “less taxes”. People have been brainwashed to think “less taxes” is BAD! LOL. Because many of the voters don’t even pay taxes why would they want less taxes?

REPS have been absolutely horrible, stagnant, and myopically lazy in their branding.

I think I’ll write a diary on this.

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

Yes

Black River Wolf (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 9:35AM EST (link)

The GOP and mainly the Right need some good PR tactics to show how Conservatism and fiscal government will be better for them.

You are correct in that we have not seen a fiscal “smaller” government for years.

But I still fear we are getting too close to this:

“A democracy cannot survive as a permanent form of government. It can last only until its citizens discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority (who vote) will vote for those candidates promising the greatest benefits from the public purse, with the result that a democracy will always collapse from loose fiscal policies, always followed by a dictatorship.—-Lord Thomas MacCauley or ‘Alexander Tyler’”

“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame,
two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.”—-John Adams

 
 

Less government. More freedom. 'Nuff said

ddstrain (Diary) Wednesday, May 27th at 11:38PM EST (link)

That’s all we need to pound into the American Idol generation.

My 17 year old is starting to get it…