How do we deal with democrat argumentative tactics?


This is an open question to the board and the forum:

How do we deal with the leftists’ tactics for “arguing”?  (I’ve put the word “arguing” in quotes for a reason).

We’ve all been there.  You’re in a discussion with some democrat or some liberal (there’s really no difference these days) and you’re trying to actually debate them on some point or other.  The exchange could go something like this:

You: “I think Obama’s spending too much.  Macroeconomic theory tells us that the government is notoriously bad at picking winners and losers; I believe an incentive program that allows people and companies to choose where to spend their money themselves is a more effective means to stimulate economic growth.  As a matter of fact, citizens around the country are organizing ‘Tea Parties’ to protest the spending and the coming tax increases.”

The lib you’re talking to: “You’re crazy and so are all those whackos and their ‘Teabagging’.  You know, the GOP used to stand for something.  Now you’re all a bunch of crazy, gay-hating fundamentalists who argue about nothing.  I miss the old GOP that use to want to discuss REAL issues.  If you all don’t figure out a way to bring them back, you’re going the way of the Whigs!”

So to recap:  You cited 2 opinions (“I think Obama’s spending too much”, and “I believe an incentive program that allows people and companies to choose where to spend their money themselves is a more effective means to stimulate economic growth”) and two facts (“Macroeconomic theory tells us that the government is notoriously bad at picking winners and losers” and “As a matter of fact, citizens around the country are organizing ‘Tea Parties’ to protest the spending and the coming tax increases”).

In short, a reasonably well-balanced argument.  But the liberal – and no, lurkers, this is no strawman.  This is how your side is behaving these days – ignored what you had to say, called you names, then claimed you never said anything.

Want examples?  Sure.  The GOP budget – not a single peep about a wonderful plan to simplify the tax code for all.  The tea parties themselves.  On and on.

How do we counterargue this tactic? I realize that the other side is seriously outgunned when it comes to any real issue and has to resort to this kind of thing (after all, you can’t spell liberal without an ‘L’ an ‘I’ and an ‘E’), but what we’re seeing on daily basis has risen to the level of the ridiculous.

Make a criticism of Barack Obama?  You’re the featured whipping boy on Jon Stewart the very next day.  And that’s the BEST you can hope for.  At worst, you’ll find yourself labeled a racist Nazi hater or some other kind of vile slander.

So again, how the hell do we fight this without becoming like them?



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13 Comments Leave a comment

The easiest way to dispel the name-callers...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 5:31PM EST (link)

is to have some facts ready at your disposal… That is have some specific examples where to send them to find the information to support your case, if you have these sources on the cuff, you will blank them. Also, if they resort to name calling, then there really is not need to engage them any further other than the question back to them, How So or where did you get that information from? The especially hate when you can use the argument of “Where in the U.S. Constituion do we find evidence that supports a Federal Government that is engaging in the activities it has been doing for the last years. Remember, Bush is also guilty for supporting huge new entitlement programs.

The name callers are only resoting to that because you have incited their emotion and no real good argument shall come once the Lib goes into venom mode.

 

The first step is to concede nothing.

Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 6:16PM EST (link)

You can agree with a statement, no problem: but you don’t let a statement that needs to be challenged pass unchallenged. Interrupt them. Don’t worry about looking rude by doing it: they were being rude first by mis-characterizing you and yours. Don’t let them change the subject, don’t let them say that we should move past the contention, don’t agree to disagree: if they whine, tell them that you’re not there to be their friend. Make ‘em pay for every inch of ground.

This

Matthew (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:17PM EST (link)

This is the most powerful tactic you have available.

The rant in the example loses steam if it goes:

“You’re crazy and so are all those whackos and their ‘Teabagging’ –”

“Stop. We’re talking about Obama’s spending plans.”

 

Outstanding

SteveM (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:29PM EST (link)

Outstanding replies, guys!

 
 

Here's a simple list...memorize it

speciallist (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 6:25PM EST (link)

We say no to Higher taxes..

we say no to Appeasement foriegn policy…

we say no to Socialized health care…

and we say no to Destructive social agendas.

 

Ad Hominem

Michael DeWeese (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 6:28PM EST (link)

Is the Progressves standard ‘debate’ tactic.
They will not debate the facts of issues, dispite always calling for a debate on the issues.
If you disagree with Dear Leader ZerO, you are a racist.
If you disagree with abortion, you are a misogynist.
If you disagree with gay marriage, you are a religious zealot.
It goes on and on. They are the standard response the Progressive Leadership has brain washed into their minions. The minions do not actually have an arguement based on issues, facts, or data to to any disagreements. This is why you get the kind of debate from them you typically encounter, name calling and bad words. They have no other recourse, they are not actually educated in the issues fundementals.

“An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the man”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.”

 

Shut Up

Matthew (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:18PM EST (link)

Surprisingly, I am reminded more and more of the little Shut Up sketch someone posted front page a few days ago.

 

Just copy Mark Levin

I like to make crude sexual jokes. Monday, April 13th at 7:38PM EST (link)

… or Rush.

Because they are sooooooo smooth and keep it together at all times.

That's right: Get off the phone, you big dope. n/t

janis (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:44PM EST (link)

Oh, Moe, we have a stupid lefty punk run amok. nt

Achance (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:46PM EST (link)

In Vino Veritas

 

Thank you for demonstrating how liberals argue for SteveM's diary. [nt]

Martin Knight (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:47PM EST (link)

PS: Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh are smooooooth and do keep it together at all times – that’s why they’re millionaires many times over.

 
 

Wow ... I'm actually writing something about this exact same thing at the moment.

Martin Knight (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 7:41PM EST (link)

But Moe has it in a nutshell.

Over the past few years, seeing Republicans brought down by
“controversies” over things deliberately taken out of context, misinterpreted or just plain manufactured by Leftists and the MSM (but I repeat myself), or seeing reasonable conservative opinion dismissed as “extremist” on the basis of the caricature liberals have in their heads about Conservatives before even so much as a proper hearing, I have come to the conclusion that the terms of the debate have got to change.

As Moe put it, challenge them from premise onward, don’t allow them to change the subject, force them to concede or don’t move forward, mock them when they descend to name-calling, refuse to apologize for offending their delicate sensibilities, attack their ideas without mercy, etc.

Make them hurt and make them pay.

 

Can't change a liberal, but...

Kyle-MI (Diary) Monday, April 13th at 8:51PM EST (link)

When arguing with a liberal keep in mind that you will never change their mind. Your target is not really the liberal with whom you are arguing, but the swing voters who are listening to your conversation.

This is also why Moe’s answer is so important. While swing voters are not necessarily the brightest bunch, they do have a fairly good bs detector. The typical swing voter will know you are making an honest attempt while the liberal is being disrespectful. This is also why it is important to keep your cool. The first one in the argument to loose their cool also looses the swing voter.