Health Care is a Right


Promoted from the diaries by Jeff

At one of the McCain-Obama debates in the run-up to the 2008 presidential election, the candidates were asked in turn if health care were a right or a privilege. Obama answered unequivocally that it was a right, while McCain fumbled a bit and declared that it was a privilege.

I disagree with both answers.

The reason both were wrong last October is that neither appeared to understand the basic definition of a ‘right’: something the government cannot forbid.

A basic right which is implied but not mentioned in the Constitution is the right to travel. The government should not interfere in our movement from place to place. But there is no right to transportation, either to a specific form of transport or to have any provided, Cash For Clunkers notwithstanding. If there were, one couldn’t pass by a hitchhiker (and they would choke every intersection demanding that their rights be satisfied).

Similarly, the government should not be able to bar anyone from receiving health care. That is very different thing from supplying it to everyone, or forcing health care workers to serve anyone who appears before them.

But in their usual manner, the left have found a way to redefine the word “right” in this context, from that which the government cannot prevent to that which it must provide. Like other socialists, Barack Obama believes rights to include things the government must provide, and it is from that unfortunate perspective that he was able to give the clear response that he did. Indeed, positive rights are the essence of socialism, and cause an insidious mission creep for an ever-expanding government. Positive rights also lead inevitably to forcing one citizen, whether driver or physician, to serve another.

John McCain was given a golden opportunity to define himself, and he took it. He showed progressives that he was not one of them, but failed at the same time to inspire conservatives by declaring the question ill-formed, and by using his own background as a teaching tool. He has known personally the effects of a government that will deny health care to those in its charge.

Health care is not a privilege, like driving a car or owning a certain kind of shoes. Health care is a right, like the right to leave and go elsewhere. But as no one need pick up a hitchhiker, no one need provide anyone else with medical care. The right to health care implies only that the government must not interfere with our attempts to care for ourselves and others. It does not mean that the government should provide care to anyone, except to prisoners of war and other wards of the State.

Part of the reason for the confusion about whether health care is or is not a right is a confusion of terms. But the reason for that confusion is that we do not currently have a government that, as John McCain’s socialist captors denied him health care, abuses people by denying them treatment. Ironically, Obamacare could only sustain itself by rationing, thereby giving us a government that would deny health care to those deemed too far gone, or thought to have insufficient utility to the State.


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Yeah

cringinghere (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:32PM EST (link)

The single biggest reason that healthcare cannot be a right is because for fit to be a right then we must compel a doctor to serve you. And anything that forces someone else to do something for you is slavery, not a right.

Imposition

DerKrieger (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:37PM EST (link)

A right cannot impose an obligation on another person and still be a right.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690

 
 

I have the right

DerKrieger (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:34PM EST (link)

…to keep and bear arms. The government doesn’t have the obligation of providing me with a gun.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690

Correct.

Loren Heal (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:56PM EST (link)

And so with each of our rights: free press, but no free printer; free religious expression, but no funding. And others have noted the free speech without a supplied soapbox.

To the Marxist/socialist, allowing the right without supplying the means is just another means of Capitalist oppression.


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How would the progressive definition of a "right" affect the 2nd Amendment??

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:35PM EST (link)

Wouldn’t the government have to provide every citizen a gun??

;^)

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

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at least a large stick - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:36PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 

If they had to supply us a gun

Loren Heal (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 2:00PM EST (link)

I wouldn’t use it, since it would probably be an epic failure.


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I hit on this in my diary

RoguePolitics (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:37PM EST (link)

A few weeks ago. You are correct.

If there is one thing the conservative side could do better; defining what is a “right” versus what is a “privilege”.

Unfortunately too many conservatives are confused and want to claim “rights” are “privileges”. For example, driving a car. By what “right” does the state control this “privilege?” How can free interstate travel, a constitutional right, be reconciled with the spurious notion that the means employed by 99% of interstate travelers should be considered a privilege?

Yet plenty of people who consider themselves conservative would drop dead faint at the notion of scrapping the driver licensing system.

How can we expect them to both know and honor rights if we don’t?

Read the whole story at http://www.redstate.com/roguepolitics/2009/07/21/health-care-is-a-right/

“So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don’t even know that fire is hot.” George Orwell

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When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object. Patrick Henry

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I have the right

DerKrieger (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:39PM EST (link)

…to free speech. The government doesn’t have the obligation to provide me a forum.

“In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” – Thomas Jefferson

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” – James Madison

Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” — John Locke, 1690

 

Progressives claim the second amendment guarantees the militia. Somehow, it's NOT an individual right!

nessa (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:44PM EST (link)

The usual lies.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

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If there is no individual right to own guns

Loren Heal (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 1:58PM EST (link)

then the militia must have been intended to own the weapon.

But the 2nd Amendment is oddly worded for that to be the case.


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Thats what I always thought Socrates, but I'm not a wise latina.

nessa (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 5:18PM EST (link)

I don’t find much of the Constitution difficult to understand, unlike the bills coming out of our congress lately! The left has been throwing up the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment for years, I’m not a lawyer but it has always seemed plain to me. Even if you take their argument seriously…

“In one description, known to grammarians as an ablative absolute construction, the Second Amendment has been considered formed with an opening justification phrase, followed by a declarative clause where the opening phrase modifies the main clause much as an adjective would modify a noun. Under this interpretation, the opening phrase is considered essential as a pre-condition for the main clause. This was a grammar structure that was common during that era. This grammatical description is considered by some to be consistent with the concept of the Second Amendment as protecting a collective right to firearms for members serving in a select militia.” from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

…the Founding Fathers spoke at length about the militia. Tenche Cox is one of my favorites on the subject:
“Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American … the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”

But ALL of the Founders agreed. The militia is everyone. The left ignores the historical evidence and obfuscates the amendment so that they can incrementally infringe on the very right guaranteed and explained for us.

The Second Amendment is not the only portion of the Constitution treated this way. Look at what they do in the name of the “General Welfare” clause!

Now, much like their use of the two words, General Welfare, they create a new right, so obviously intended to be guaranteed to the American People.

Lies, plain to see to me, but the lies are picked up and repeated and off we go, to the public option or co-ops or socialized government run health care. Those who want to believe it will, just like the surprise so many Obama voters are feeling now. What surprise? You didn’t see it coming? We told you! Stupid.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

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Constitution? What Constitution?

RedBeard Monday, August 17th at 2:23PM EST (link)

In this so-called “heakth care” debate, the one missing element is constitutionality. Dems deliberately ignore the Constitution, and Reps seem confused by it.

The simple fact is that Congress is not authorized to provide medical insurance to anyone, in any form, no matter how reasonable a plan is developed.

Every member of Congress has a stack of copies of the Constitution to pass out to visiting constituents. Too bad those congresscritters have never availed themselves of the opportunity to read and understand the law of the land.

It’s really not that difficult. It’s a short document, quite concise. For the more dunderheaded, I suggest starting by reading the 10th Amendment, and working backwards.

Standard-bearer for grouchy curmudgeonry since, oh, 1975 or so.

5!!

fmaidment (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 6:37PM EST (link)

Quite an excellent method of explaining why, even if health care is a “right,” the government is not “compelled” or even “authorized” to provide it.

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– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

 
 

Right to travel.....

jimc1969 Monday, August 17th at 2:43PM EST (link)

Funny you mention the right to travel. And I’m NOT saying you are wrong I know EXACTLY what you refer to BUT I live In North Jersy, and went to Staten Island the other week, I had to pay $12 in Tolls !!!!
( Including a BIG one at the state border )
The Govt is essentially trying to stifle interstate commerce through these HIGH tolls…………..
I wonder if this ever went before the Supreme Court ? ( I seem to recall that last years highway bill had language in it to encourage more tollls too ! )

is the construction paid off?

Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 3:05PM EST (link)

I don’t have any problem with a toll road that pays for itself, but I do have a problem with a local government fleecing travelers to finance its other plans. I don’t like speed traps either.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton

kowalski

Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 3:11PM EST (link)

That said, the right to travel is the one also called “Liberty.” That’s one of the big three from the Declaration, along with Life (aka Healthcare), and Property (aka TPOH). Also see my opus on rights and duties.

“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”

–Alexander Hamilton
 
 

If you wish to avoid tolls...

fmaidment (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 6:39PM EST (link)

…you have every right to take a ferry or find some other method of arriving on the island.

I don’t like tolls where the government puts the money into its general fund, but tolls to pay for the construction and/or maintenance of the road are, to me, more “free market” than any gas tax.

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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

 

That's the tricky part

cclive Tuesday, August 18th at 5:51PM EST (link)

You have the “right” to travel but on roads and highways provided by the government. True, you don’t have to use those roads but that would make traveling to some places nearly impossible. So the government then has a responsibility to maintain those roads to ensure your “rights”.

 
 

Health Care is a RESPONSIBILITY

GT350 Monday, August 17th at 2:49PM EST (link)

Responsibility is a word that is too little used in this day and age.

 

Real rights vs. phony rights

Return to Revolution (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 2:59PM EST (link)

An issue started by the progressive movement and finally implemented in US law with FDR’s “2nd bill of rights”.

The best way to tell real from phony is to ask, who has to initiate force to violate the right? If you have to force someone into some action (such as taxes) in order to achieve your “right” then its an FDR style right. Rights as defined in the constitution require only that others refrain from interfering (hence the term negative liberty).

Out of hand Constitutional fetishist

More accurately, I think...

fmaidment (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 6:49PM EST (link)

…does your “right” violate the rights of another person.

One of the reasons that the Democrat’s healthcare bill is not the enforcement of a “right” is that it violates the rights of the medical practitioners and facility owners. Saying a person has a right to treatment they cannot afford forces the doctors to give up a portion of their rights, that is, their right to property (the materials they use and the knowledge stored in their heads).

It is unfortunate that so many believe they have a right to a portion of another person’s life. This is the same type of thinking that was used to justify the looting after Katrina. It is the same mentality that justifies illegal music downloads (and the excessive fines leveled upon the downloading individuals). It is the mentality that justifies minimum wages (and now the bonus/salary “clawbacks” the TARP administrators are considering).

You have a right only to your own life and property, and can give it up at whatever rate you feel is appropriate. Artificially forcing someone to accept less than they desire for their property or services is theft, at any level, for any purpose and by through any intermediary.

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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

So why aren't we seeing some real reform

cclive Tuesday, August 18th at 8:29PM EST (link)

like repealing EMTALA? Which does force doctors and hospitals to provide goods and services to people who can not pay them.

 
 
 

They are actually violating the right

Menlo (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 3:55PM EST (link)

If health care is a right, the Democrats are actually violating it. When government takes over health care, it can no longer be a right because the government can deny it when they don’t think it is worth their money. And from what I have heard, they want to prohibit doctors from even offering services that aren’t covered by any public or private collective plan. In other words, the patient will be barred from paying out of his or her own pocket for a service that no one else will cover.

It is amazing to see that, regardless of the issue, liberals ALWAYS violate the very same right they claim to be upholding.

“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter

 

Healthcare is a service.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 4:55PM EST (link)

Much like landscaping or rotorooting. Healthcare is certainly more important and sophisticated, more valuable and more costly. But it is a service none the less. The constitution does not guarantee us a right to service.

Health Insurance is a product or commodity. It is meant to be privately purchased and privately owned. Just like any other product or commodity. The constitution does not guarantee us a right to own that which we cannot afford.

So what the government should do is eliminate the barriers to interstate purchase of health insurance. Remove most mandatory coverage’s so that consumers can choose the minimum level of coverage according to their economic situation. Both of these steps would make individual policies more affordable.

Consumers should select insurance coverage for ONLY those things which could not be for, out of pocket, or from a health savings account

That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it!

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

The point of my diary, Rick

Loren Heal (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 5:37PM EST (link)

is that the service of health care, the provision of it, is not to be guaranteed, only the lack of government interference in the transaction. We have more and more of the former and less and less of the latter.


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Let me take issue with only one point...

fmaidment (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 6:53PM EST (link)

“Consumers should select insurance coverage for ONLY those things which could not be for, out of pocket, or from a health savings account”

Consumers should be able to select whatever coverage they so choose, whether that means emergency-only coverage, or comprehensive coverage for anything including bandaids.

If they can afford to pay for it, fine. Let them buy coverage that will have a nurse show up and kiss their bruise if they so choose. Just don’t ask the American taxpayers to cover it for them!

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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

100% correct Fred.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 6:59PM EST (link)

I should have been more specific. I was making a recommendation to those who feel health insurance is unaffordable. Don’t buy insurance for routine check-ups etc. I absolutely agree that everyone should be able to buy the policy they want, without outside interference.

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 
 
 

Everytime the government has gotten involved with health care

suzieQ (Diary) Monday, August 17th at 5:27PM EST (link)

They’ve ruined it. Look at medicare. It is huge, expensive, convoluted, and known for problems. The same could be said for the VA. Government beurocrats should not be involved in healthcare. Reagan warned us what an epic failure medicare would be as far back as the 1960′s. I would send money to any senator or representative that introduced a bill to ban socialized medicine. Medicare has caused more problems than it was ever worth and it’s only for a small segment of the population. The dems want to enforce medicare on all of America, regardless of age!

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