The other day, when Bart Stupak revealed that he was told “If you pass the Stupak Amendment, more children will be born and therefore it will cost us millions more”, I mentioned that it was no real surprise. Abortion is an agenda to the Left, it’s not about life or some perceived ‘choice’. I said that it just exposes the face underneath the mask a bit more; Now, it isn’t just about funding abortion, but using it as a cost-saving tool. James Taranto of The Wall Street Journal agrees:
In order to be effective, a policy of using abortion as a cost-cutting measure would have to aim at preventing the birth of babies with such pre-existing conditions. The goal would be not a reduction in the number of babies, but an “improvement” in the “quality” (narrowly defined in economic terms) of the babies who are born. This is known as eugenics.
Eugenics, indeed. See, not only can individual women be “punished by a baby,” but so can the entire World, evidently. This is one of the left’s dirty little secrets; factions of the left have been encouraging eugenics for years. The “green” movement, for instance, has population control at its core. An example from Diane Francis, of the Financial Post, who in her article entitled The Real Inconvenient Truth: The Whole World Needs to Adopt China’s One Child Policy, echoes the true beliefs of many global warming embracers. You know, like the majority of the Democrats in Congress and our President.
For those who balk at the notion that governments should control family sizes, just wait until the growing human population turns twice as much pastureland into desert as is now the case, or when the Amazon is gone, the elephants disappear for good and wars erupt over water, scarce resources and spatial needs.
For those who balk? As if it is just some weird new idea that we aren’t swift enough to embrace right away. Sadly, it’s not even a new idea. In fact, it is the basis for a lot of the global warming hysteria – the true agenda behind the movement is disturbing. Hints of such things have been coming out of the “Green Movement” and the left for years. They are just being more blatant about it now. President Obama, at the very least, embraces people who espouse such agendas: his very own science czar.
Last year, it was discovered that John Holdren was not pro-choice; but it was totally okay, because it wasn’t THAT kind of choice. It was the opposite, in fact; he argued in favor of MANDATORY abortions as a means of population control. From FrontPage Magazine:
“If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children, and if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” (pp. 837-838). Moreover, if the United States government refuses to take proper measures, they authorize the United Nations to take compelling force.
The excerpt is from his book, Ecoscience, which he co-authored, and which also espoused a World Government that would have global authority, including population control, and advocated for a global Redistribution of Wealth. It looks like his dream is coming to fruition, in part, via Obamacare and a Redistribution of Health.
Only now, it’s not just population control, which is sinister enough. But it’s for saving money.
Even most pro-choice people, as opposed to pro-abortion, would be sickened by this. They can perhaps rationalize being ‘pro-choice” by choosing to believe that “when does life begin” is an actual question; perhaps one above one’s “pay-grade”, under the guise of personal freedom or a right to privacy. Those are the weak arguments generally used. Can they continue to use those lame arguments when it means sanctioning the killing of a child as a cost-saving measure?
Getting government into the eugenics business would have disturbing implications for reproductive liberty. What would happen to a woman who received, say, a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome? She would be free (as she is today) to exercise her right to have an abortion. But would she be free to exercise her right not to have an abortion?
He goes on to wonder what would happen if a woman chose to carry a baby, diagnosed with a medical condition before fetal viability, to term. Would that baby’s medical needs be covered? I’d go a step further and wonder what would happen if scientific advances find a “gay gene” or if government-sanctioned studies are done showing that women require more health care than men, due to pesky pregnancies and all.
I also wonder if the pregnancy itself would even be covered. If it’s all about cost-saving measures, a complicated pregnancy is far more expensive – monetarily – than an abortion. Government-run health care may choose not to cover such pregnancies and, if Nancy Pelosi gets her way, the only option we will have is government run health care. She’s already said that “once we kick in the door, more legislation will follow.” This isn’t even a slippery slope argument; it’s the likely outcome.
As mentioned above, Liberals, for years, have been preaching eugenics under the euphemism population control. While vile, it isn’t new. The difference is that they will now have full control over our bodies. Reproductive freedom? How, when the government owns your reproductive care and that government has no qualms about funding abortion and, in fact, encouraging it. Senator Barbara Boxer, Ma’am, proudly declared on the Senate floor that she believes that if health care covers Viagra, then it should cover abortion. Yes, because a treatment for a dysfunctional male naughty bit is exactly the same as a surgical procedure that takes a life. Senator Dianne Feinstein went one step further and admitted that she believes that is “morally correct” for taxpayers to fund abortion.
Nancy Pelosi said funding for “family planning services” (code for abortion) saves money. How does it save money, Speaker Pelosi? By “weeding out” the “undesirables” and, now, the ones that may cost too much money under your socialized medicine scheme? You obviously include Planned Parenthood as one of your family planning services. They seem to believe that abortions are preferable and more “cost-effective” than having babies. The Rosa Acuna Project exposed one such instance, with a video showing a counselor, with corroboration by a Doctor, telling a woman that the baby growing inside her womb isn’t really a baby:
“That is not a baby.” Dr. Polhaska, the abortion doctor, insists, “It’s not a baby at this stage or anything like that.” Polhaska also states that having an abortion will be “much safer than having a baby,” warning, “You know, women die having babies.”
Is that the kind of “family planning services” that you mean, Speaker Pelosi? It will save money and all.
It’s not hard to imagine the federal government’s establishing counseling protocols designed to encourage abortion in certain situations–for example, informing a woman after a Down syndrome diagnosis of the burdens (but not the joys) of rearing a child with that condition. This seems no less an infringement of reproductive liberty than the Pennsylvania law to which the pro-choice side objects.
No, it’s not hard to imagine. Especially when one realizes that not only will “family planning services” be involved with our health care, but that Obamacare also includes funding to draft “socially acceptable” doctors.
Lurking within the recently-released Reconciliation bill is a brand new corps of government workers.
Page 911 of the 2010 Reconciliation PDF. Section 2231.
‘‘Subpart XII-Public Health Workforce
2 ‘‘SEC. 340L. PUBLIC HEALTH WORKFORCE CORPS.
3 ‘‘(a) ESTABLISHMENT.-There is established, within
4 the Service, the Public Health Workforce Corps (in this
5 subpart referred to as the ‘Corps’), for the purpose of en-
6 suring an adequate supply of public health professionals
7 throughout the Nation. The Corps shall consist of-
8 ‘‘(1) such officers of the Regular and Reserve
9 Corps of the Service as the Secretary may designate; ….”It speaks of regular and reserve Officers, scholarships, loans, obligated service, individual contracts, training centers, the traditional income redistribution scheme of grants and grant proposals, etc. The debt repayment provisions are especially attractive to certain sectors of our population. It appears to be an indentured servitude gig. You sign up, do your part for nationalizing health care and the Corps will get the American taxpayer to foot the bill for your training and educational costs and retire your debts.
The Democrats in Congress have already made it clear they care not one whit about the will of the people; why would they care about people? Do you really wonder what kind of “training” this Health Workforce Corps will receive and what agendas they will be told to push?
I hope we need never find out.
KnightsofMalta
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
Lest anyone think that this can't happen, it already happens in Cuba -
Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 8:23PM EST (link)women are told many time that their babies have “something wrong with them”, and they are simply aborted – no choice whatsoever…
Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride…..
Excellent article!!!
k3nd00d Sunday, March 21st at 2:55PM EST (link)Lori Ziganto’s article here and those she link to which further detail this issue are great and more people need to understand what is in this article. I have been trying for a long time to get people to understand the healthcare bill and green agenda are all about eugenics and command and control of all aspects of life, reproduction and energy use. In short, the final goal is GLOBAL implementation of such a thing. Read “Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment” (1977) (can be found on torrent sites) written by John P. Holdren (White House Science Czar), Paul Ehrlich and Ann Ehrlich (professors that focus on population studies and have predicted the end of society within a decade due to over population since the 1960s). These people, along with Maurice Strong, Al Gore and the large banking families in the world are behind all of this (see The Rio Earth Summit in 1992 (search for clips on YouTube)).
The ultimate power trip
texasgalt (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 8:36PM EST (link)is the power to decide who lives and who dies. The left and Sanger are BFF.
Margaret Sanger
edintexas Wednesday, March 17th at 9:46AM EST (link)Sanger was a eugenics true believer before she founded Planned Parenthood. She was a true believer in eugenics after too. Abortion was just another tool in the eugenics arsenal and “Planned Parenthood” wasn’t intended to help people have children.
Those who can decide who lives
texasgalt (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 10:31AM EST (link)are invested in a culture of death. This is where the left “lives” and that was my point.
Ironically, while the Dems try to finally get the health care cramdown to a “vote”, 40 Days for Life is ongoing. I just received news that 3 saves were made this week by those praying and counseling in Austin.
Precious life preserved, but to the Sangerites more mouths to feed and tend.
http://www.40daysforlife.com/splash.cfm
There will come a time when countries/societies....
penguin2 (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 8:38PM EST (link)will finally look at their Declining populations and realize too late, that they did themselves in. Ancient Rome faced this and enacted laws and paid citizens to have children, but it was beyond rescuing. While variables were responsible for Rome’s declining birth rate, certainly the fact that women chose to stop having them was a factor.
I touched on the Left and abortion, and the thread of eugenics progressing throughout the 20th century in this post. One of the points that I made was about government passing laws that allowed for the taking of innocent life, that was the end of the line. I also said this:
This is the final fight and the endgame. You’ve hit it absolutely on point, Lori. No one should be deceived or think this is not really going to happen. Expediency, value to society, “inconvenient” lives – all will be part of the equation.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. – Benjamin Franklin
When Good stands up to Evil, Evil blinks. – Vassar Bushmills
Conservative Education: Suggested Reading List
Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots
Europe is already there, we're on the borderline penguin.
nessa (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 9:10PM EST (link)Read America Alone by Mark Steyn. From Amazon:
1) In the ongoing conflict between the West and Islam, both the demographics and the will to power favor the Islamists. That a country like Spain, with a birth rate of 1.15 children per adult women, will extinguish itself in a few generations, while immigrants from countries such as Pakistan (birth rate 4.53) will move in to fill the vacuum.
2) That as an aggressive, unassimilated minority edges closer to a majority (as in France, with an estimated 30% Muslim population in the under 20 age group), the character of the democratic institutions will become more closely aligned with Islamic law and culture.
3) That the post-Christian welfare state is largely to blame for the pessimism and failures of will demonstrated by Europe.
4) That America represents the primary exception to this trend, if only by degree, and that only a concerted effort to save our society stands a chance of reversing these trends.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Contributor to Unified Patriots
teh twitter
Caucasian Americans Have Similar Reproductive Rates
Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 7:21AM EST (link)America’s brith rate is significantly larger in 1st generation immigrant families. As Mark Steyn once wrote. The future will belong to whoever bothers showing up for it!
” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis
This would be a lot more believable if Stupak would provide specifics about exactly WHO told him this and WHEN they told it to him...
togaman Tuesday, March 16th at 8:52PM EST (link)as it stands now, it looks a little like that silly loon Massa who made accusations about what the Democratic leadership was up to, then went on to beclown himself on Glenn Beck’s show.
If there is any proof that Stupak is telling the truth about what he said, then this is a tremendous club to hit Democrats over the head with and should be pursued. Why isn’t anyone following up on this?
Right now, Stupak has a lever on Obama ...
acat (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 9:41PM EST (link)He would be bat-guano-crazy to give that up.
It is being followed up – just not by the Mainly Stupid Media. The ongoing Obamacare circus is sucking just about all of the oxygen out of the room.
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
But giving the specifics of who said this heinous thing and when they said it would only improve his leverage...
togaman Wednesday, March 17th at 1:10AM EST (link)unless you know, he is making the whole thing up….
Stupak is not lying, read the history of who you are fighting.
archer52 Wednesday, March 17th at 4:53AM EST (link)Questioning Stupak’s assertion that the radical left wants control over reproduction rights is a mistake. It would be like questioning the survivor of the Bataan death march when they claimed, “Those Japanese are ruthless bas**ds!” Of course they were, history proved it, their actions proved, their words and philosophy proved it.
At some point you all MUST quit committing the one error most Americans make- that we always look for the best in others. Sometimes the bad guys are just that, bad guys. They have no redeeming qualities, no honor, no morals, no sense of love of country. They hate us, we elected them, they hate the country and want only power. Controlling us in every aspect of our lives is the plan. It is all about the “State” and what it needs. We are going to end up like batteries, plug in here or there, in order to make the system run better so they can get more.
Remember the old rule? K.I.S.S.? Don’t think too deep here. They are the bad guys, we are the good guys.
Read the book- (www.revoltthebook.com)
Simplification = good, oversimplification = bad
acat (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 3:00PM EST (link)Knowing the difference .. there’s the challenge!
Seeing the good (Obama’s perfectly creased trouser leg and smooth diction) and ignoring the bad (Communist father, questionable church background, unsavory friends) is what got us here.
I prefer to avoid oversimplification at the cost of some simplicity. YMMV.
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
Repeating the same thing doesn't make it more right.....
acat (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 9:30AM EST (link)…and naming some vice-deputy-director in the white house just means we get a new vice-deputy-director. How’s “getting rid of Van Jones” working out? Anyone noticed any change at all?
No, it’s a much better lever if nobody knows just how high the rot goes. Makes the majority in this country who are opposed to abortion-on-demand, and the larger majority who want nothing to do with eugenics, government-funded or not, suspicious of the entire Demonrat party.
We’re past due for a re-shuffling on both sides – but the Dems as the party in power are going to have their little family breakdown live and on the air.
Mew
——

“All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost”. –Tolkein
How absolutely PATHETIC you are if you think JUST....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 5:42AM EST (link)Stupak is the proof of the EVIL the leftist are with KILLING innocent babies. Your desire for one man to “prove” to you what has been IN YOUR FACE for decades is quite a little disingenuous wouldn’t you say? The Party of Death will stop at NOTHING to contain “certain groups” from LIVING just ask Justice Ginsberg.
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
its funny how eugenics is the swift eradication of genetic diversity-nt
DONTREADONME (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 9:45PM EST (link)FOLLOWING UP ON THIS!
bigmaude Tuesday, March 16th at 9:46PM EST (link)YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! Even if Stupak wasn’t telling the truth, this is from the playbook of Marxists and Sanger and every stinkin one of ‘em that were elected! Seriously man, these people have GOT to be stopped! Can youIMAGINE someone forcing abortion on your wife or your sister or your daughter!?? NOT IN MY WILDEST DREAMS DID I IMAGINE THIS HORROR MOVIE! Better get your CCP!!!!
Nightmare on 1600 Penn avenue. THUGS IS WHAT THEY ARE!
It must feel good to kill
VizBiz (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 10:01PM EST (link)Lori, this is an excellent diary. It brings to mind the montra of the Left “if it feels good, do it”. It’s sick. It must feel good to be out there cheering for the CHOICE!
I don’t know if America will ever get it’s will back to do the hard things and take responsibility, but I know that a long as I live I’ll keep trying to do the right things.
Keep up the good fight and God Bless you.
Runs with scissors, walks with Wacom.
It's why most Planned Parenthood offices are in the ghettos
renny (Diary) Tuesday, March 16th at 10:50PM EST (link)and black babies are the most often aborted.
And what does that say about the lib./progressive elite who are always so busy sniffing the air with their upturned sanctimonious noses because they are so morally superior to the “tea party” bigots and other cons. troglodytes who believe in the Cons. and that to pass a law elected reps. actually have to vote aye or nay?
And it prob. explains why the left is so bats about Palin’s actually carrying and bearing a Downs Syndrome child. To the leftjits, such a choice is beyond mental conception.
Ergo, we should also keep ears to the ground for the idjit “enviros” who are supposedly regrouping along with AlBore to make sure their fortunes in carbon trades isn’t damaged by real science influencing the scam of global warming, now climate change, as if some politician could actually affect the entire climate of an entire planet.
Intelligence Minus Morality Equals. . .
msctex (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 12:20AM EST (link)Eugenics, along with most of the horrors of the last century.
A Modest Proposal
Mike LaChance (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 4:03AM EST (link)Next fall, when Republicans sweep the house and senate, they should introduce legislation to sterilize all liberals and use reconciliation to pass it.
By today’s standard, set by Democrats, it would be perfectly acceptable.
Wouldn’t it?
Note to liberals who would quote me on this in the future: SATIRE!
Liberals and satire
indyjohn Wednesday, March 17th at 9:16AM EST (link)I have noticed that, when satire is directed at liberals, they are utterly incapable of understanding the point being made. I believe that the liberal thought process is so fraught with cognitive dissonance that the concept of irony simply cannot be comprehended.
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.
Edmund Burke
Population Control
jsanzone (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 4:12AM EST (link)Eugenics is disgusting and counter-productive, whether it manifests in forced sterilization or coercive, government-sponsored abortion.
But yes, human population does become a problem in places like, say, China, India, or Japan.
So what’s proven to be the best way to reduce the need to have 7 children to work in the factory? Capitalism and a free society. The higher the standard of living, the higher the level of education, the more “sustainable” a nation’s or region’s population.
Freedom works.
http://www.2010blog.net
20/10 Blog
How much more of a leap
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 8:38AM EST (link)would it take to order who has the right of conception? The more science discovers about genetic markers, the closer one gets to the PLAN of creating the perfect world, the utopia that the lefties want.
We always fall back on the Down Syndrome baby as the most noticeable example but there is a whole host of conditions, inherited conditions, accidents at birth or of development such as conjoined twins, malformed limbs, etc. that would play into this. Or cystic fibrosis; even those that develop later in life such as Huntington’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, and multiple sclerosis. Or my dear friend who was born with dual spinal bifida and couldn’t do much of anything physically demanding for the first ten years of her life until having what was considered a radical surgery at the time.
How far will they go in their efforts to cut costs? I know, I know, everyone (on the left) will rise up and say that is not the intent, no not us, but the problem with this kind of monstrosity is that it lives on long after the authors have died… we all die sooner or later whether from disease or simply old age. If every generation builds on what the previous generation has done, it’s really only a matter of when, isn’t it?
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Read the book of Jeremiah...
bigmaude Wednesday, March 17th at 9:15AM EST (link)The children of Isreal in captivity came to eating their own children because of their disobedience to God. Captured by Chaldeans and Assyrians, known for their brutality. So, the true irony here is this, those of us on RS are Pro-life and yet we are fighting the pro-death crowd and we are in essence, eating our own children in America. You all know the statistics, 52 million American citizens murdered in the safest place on earth, use to be. How many generations cut off and least of all, what a tax base….gone. So we fight still for life, fighting a Chaldean thug whose ONLY concern is for HIM and his own progressive, elite, EVIL, ENDGAME. So Bret Bair is going to interview the Chaldean today. Do you think he will ask him why he hates America. Do you think he will ask him what his true MO is? Nope. Do you think the Chaldean will answer ANYTHING TRUTHFULLY? Nope, he is not capable of truth, except when he declares that he wants to fundementally transform America, or not punish his daughters witha baby? PURE EVIL! So, did we bring this on ourselves?
Malthuse
etlib Wednesday, March 17th at 9:45AM EST (link)You can’t have attended college without being told of the essential Malthusian “truth” that left unchecked populations increase geometrically and therefore outgrow the resources availabe to support them.
Since we can’t restrict sexual activity (it’s the key “circus” used to keep the population under control) you have to do something about the product of that form of entertainment.
Perverse?
“No creature without tentacles has ever developed true intelligence”
The Compassionate Liberal
indyjohn Wednesday, March 17th at 10:14AM EST (link)Isn’t it great to see the left exposed for what it truly is? The left has been wearing the Compassion Mask for more than a century. Their hearts are supposedly filled with love for all those who have lost life’s lottery. They are supposedly committed to the betterment of the poor, the downtrodden, and the exploited. Their most profound wish is supposedly to create laws and systems of governance that promote fairness to all. They are supposedly altruists whose only concern is a bright future for all mankind.
But when the mask is stripped away, what countenance do we see beneath it? We behold uglines. We behold a cold, brutal calculation that reduces human beings to pawns in an ideological chess match. We behold a heartlessness that reduces the sick, the infirm, the elderly, and the unborn to entries on an accountant’s balance sheet.
Political leaders of the Left – Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, and Hussein – have consigned tens of millions of inconvenient individuals to their deaths.
The abortionists who are championed by the Left have destroyed millions more innocent lives.
Who will their next victims be, and when will we stop them?
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.
Edmund Burke
Does anyone realize
timchgo9 (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 10:27AM EST (link)That perhaps the world is ending?
That we are in the final throes, and indeed at the “End of the Age?”
Looming on the horizon, if not in our lives already, is a force not unlike Nazism in it’s desire for power, and desire to check all that disagrees with it. And it’s desire to take over not only the world, but our very lives, and start selecting who stays, and who goes. (i.e. lives or dies) This has been the goal of the left since time immemorial. I fear for this country right now. Since Barak Obama’s election, I have seen the slide downhill accelerating.
Is Jesus’ return imminent? Just by looking at the state of the world on the surface…one would think so. If one looks a little deeper, one is almost convinced.
“Chairman of the Awkward Squad”
No.
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 12:12PM EST (link)As long as there are people who believe in something better and work to achieve it, then no.
I believe we have been at this point more than once in the world’s history and we have by our own deeds forestalled it. We can again, and again, and again if necessary. When there is no fight left in those still living is when that will happen.
Don’t dwell on and then accept it so easily.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
Hoping you realize that your argument
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 2:00PM EST (link)runs counter to nearly every variant of classical Christian eschatology rooted in the Scriptures, in that the timing of Christ’s return in judgment is dependent on no man or men but solely on the sovereign, inscrutable will of the Father, and that the desire of Christians through the ages has been, not the “forestalling” of that return, but rather its hastening, echoing John’s cry “maranatha!–come, Lord Jesus!”
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
That may be but it's still my belief.
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 2:41PM EST (link)Given that the Father’s patience is farther reaching than even the most perfect of imperfect humans, I cannot believe that as long as there is hope for the salvation of even one more soul, that HE would end it.
I’m no theologian nor even a very good Christian by most accepted standards. You could probably beat me to a bloody pulp (figuratively) discussing theology.
My beliefs are simple and straightforward, much like the way I try to live my life.
As bad as the world is right now, it is nowhere near as bad as it could be. I refuse to give up hope that we can make it better again, even if for a comparatively short time as time is infinite.
If you would prefer that I wish to hasten the end, I can do that but I think of it as extremely selfish in that those who want the end are also willing to shut the door on potential to save others and help them secure the blessing of God’s grace as well.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
No pulps here, bloody or otherwise
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 3:50PM EST (link)Just a plea for recognition that when anyone speaks theologically–and everyone does from time to time, as you did above–they at least consider whether their statements, even “simple and straightforward” ones, can be reconciled with others much more ancient and authoritative, such as “you know neither the day nor the hour” and “you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect”.
The Scriptures do indeed balance the desire for Christ to return sooner than later alongside the fact that “the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations”*. The two are reconciled only in the knowledge that God not only creates the “potential to save others”, but that he actually, effectually, through the preaching of the gospel, “with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm” does save his elect–a fact which we can never hinder or thwart–and that he does so for the praise of both his justice and his grace.
In that light I would be most interested to know where I have once implied that we should be selfishly “willing to shut the door on potential to save others”.
* which gives Christians a raison d’etre of somewhat larger scope than merely preserving a national dream.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
The "you" was meant figuratively.
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 4:06PM EST (link)Not “you” precisely. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression there.
I ask: Can not the same be said of those who are saying, whether authoritatively or worryingly, the end times are near?
If they were so near, what would that say to us still left on this earth? That we have failed to be blessed with God’s grace and should now despair? As you said, no man knows the day or the hour. If I am wrong, then I can despair in the fires of hell. In the meantime, I have faith and hope which are more strengthening than despair.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
No more from me
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 4:41PM EST (link)not the right venue, already off-topic, and our points– though apparently referencing different sources of authority and our terminologies differing (e.g. faith/hope/despair)–have been established.
Just a parting thought, that even if the “hopes” of those dreading an imminent return of Christ were to prove true, what would you say to those among that large group who nevertheless were to die without warning in the interval? Surely there have been many such to date. Far better to find, in Christ–alone, and now–and be found helping others to find, reconciliation with God before either judgment arrives–our death or his return. At least one of those is guaranteed to happen in each of our lifetimes–possibly immediately.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
On this we can agree:
Steph C (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 5:20PM EST (link)However, if His return is imminent, I would rather live with the hope of “helping others to find, reconciliation with God” than spend my time worrying it his return is going to happen tomorrow. Worrying leads to despair.
“[I]f the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.” –Candidus in the Boston Gazette, 1772
Hillbilly Politics
The old (and new) Sola Scriptura men are at their best
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 1:28PM EST (link)when they derive their eschatology–as with all other heads of theology–from the biblical texts, not the newspapers (or blogs). And those texts point us to a return that has been imminent for ~1980 years, the signs of which do not make even remote reference to the details of a political battle being waged in a country which accounts for about 1/20 of all the souls in the world.
At times like this it can be wise to study how others in the long communion of saints fared before us*–both their fears and their hopes–and then get on with what we are commanded to do in whatever time remains, either cosomologically or personally. You’ll find yourself with very little time to speculate too much about the details.
* a recent edition of Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is a good starting place; but then so is almost any history book. There have been worse times and places than now and here, including now and there for much of the world.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
Whether this is the "end times"
momofthecastle (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 2:17PM EST (link)or not, we are commanded to “occupy until He comes.” That is the stand I’ll take. If it is a fight they want, it is a fight they’ll get, till Christ comes back to set it all straight.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN
danielbdp (Diary) Wednesday, March 17th at 11:51AM EST (link)Today, Dennis Kucinich publicly caved in under relentless pressure from the President and the House speaker. Congress members still sitting on the fence, on whether to follow their principles, whether they be Left or Right (like Daniel and his friends did) or corrupt themselves and bend their wills succumbing to fellow man’s temporal power, should remember that there will be a reckoning – whether they actually vote on this highly immoral bill or “deem and pass”.
In Daniel’s day, a certain king Belshazzar did not amend his immoral, God-defying ways until it was too late. Today, the handwriting is on the wall all over the Congress (no federal funding for abortions, no euthanasia, no eugenics, no more lying, no brazen misappropriation of the public treasure and trust to corrupt even more public officials into perverting the democratic process). Those who proceed with eyes and ears firmly shut, to bend to fellow man’s temporal power, will soon find their political kingdoms numbered and finished, found wanting in the balance, and given away to their political adversaries.
What else is new?
leehazel Wednesday, March 17th at 7:11PM EST (link)We’ve had 40+ years of Genocide,
50+Million abortions of which about 17 Million (30%) were black babies.
This 17 Million from a population of aproximately 12%of the general population or roughly 40 Million blacks.
There is no way that this can be considered anything but Genocide. The Black population can not be sustained with this rate of abortion added to the other death statistics involving Blacks.
Might just as well add Eugenics to the mix. There certainly doesn’t seem to be any problem with infaticide in this society. Where does this end?
PC is Thought Control
LEE
Stupak's GOP opponent
richardcarlson (Diary) Tuesday, March 23rd at 9:17AM EST (link)Tom Stillings is the viable conservative candidate vs Stupak, visit http://www.stillingsforcongress.com and on Facebook add as a friend and share. www.facebook.com/pages/Tom-Stillings-for-Congress/359528951597?v=info