The Flight of the Phoenixes?


Is It Really Going to Come to This?

You’ve probably noticed that I’ve been banging-on for some time (as have others) about the increasingly-poor competitive position of the U.S. tax system when compared with other jurisdictions. Noting that this has been a prime driver for the “outsourcing” that the tax-lovers are always screeching about, I’ve been wondering if the gap will get so bad that we’ll start to see entire firms – and eventually actual talent – fleeing for more hospitable jurisdictions.

And I’ve also noted that I’m not just a kibitzing pundit on this sort of thing – I’m personally in the middle of it, face these discrepancies, and worry about facing major personal dislocations ahead.

Apparently, I’m not the only one who has been having those dark thoughts on sleepless nights….

Bill Whittle has noted this situation and said so:

As an American and a patriot, I implore you – I go to my knees and beg you – LEAVE NOW.

Leave. Just go away. Retire to the Cayman Islands or Bermuda or wherever, but do it now, please, while you still have some love for this country. Close your companies, fire your employees, shutter your factories and offices, sell your property, and take all of that somewhere else… better yet: somewhere scenic but poverty-stricken. Somewhere that could use some wealth creation. Somewhere that people simply are grateful to have a job in the first place. Somewhere where you will be appreciated.

You are not welcome in America any more. Take your wealth and prosperity and inventiveness and hard work and vision and insight and bold risk-taking and joy in seeing growth and wealth creation and just go away – right now, before it’s too late. Because if you stay, Joel Berg and Barack Obama and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd will continue to come after you for more and more and more and they will not ever stop – not ever – until you are forced to flee. And when that day comes, you will go with not with fond remembrances and a desire to return home, but rather a black heart and hard and bitter memories.

That’s bracing stuff, and it requires little comment – except to note that circumstances have me as a participant rather than a spectator.

(BTW, follow the link and read the whole thing – the second half of his discourse is a rarity in being personal yet strikingly poignant….)


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Flight of Talent

noainc Wednesday, April 8th at 11:51PM EST (link)

The flight of business and talent is inevitable when faced with a hostile business/tax environment. Talent is rewarded in a healthy economy and attracts and retains the smartest and most competitive people. The direction many states and the US in general is headed is the opposite. Central planning, class warfare and the tentacles of big government are strangling this country.

 

Sad, but true

sidneyc Thursday, April 9th at 12:25AM EST (link)

It’s sad to see the class envy and the moral rot that passes for progressive thought in this country. The tipping point has been reached as far as the non producers controlling the process.
The political system has been so corrupted that I think the good people in this country have thrown in the towel.
Khrushchev was right–we will destroy ourselves from the inside, no foreign invasion necessary.

Sid C

 

I Think You Will See It

DavidSage (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:35AM EST (link)

It’s so easy now to conduct business from anywhere in the world that wealthy people can comfortably leave the U.S. There are plenty of countries that would love to have these people.

My guess is you will see an even bigger push to shut down “tax havens” and more severe limits on allowing rich Americans to take their wealth abroad. The Left is really scared their cash cows are going to head for the hills.

If Obama gets everything he wants and (with the overwhelming Democrat majorities in Congress, it’s certainly very likely) and basically restructures the U.S. to permanently resemble something like Sweden or France in the 1970′s, me and my wealth are outta here.

I’m not one of these annoying people that make threats like that when my guy loses, I can deal with a Democrat President and Congress (I have before). This time it’s different, I really feel like this country is at a turning point with how we react to this financial crisis. It’s very hard to turn back once you start down the road to socialism and it can take generations to get back on track.

Tax havens already under attack

Next93 (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 10:51AM EST (link)

I seem to remember something about just that subject mentioned at the G-20 meeting, they want to be able to go after tax haven countries. Looks like the current crop of commuists learned from Kruschev, instead of trying to build a wall around a city, they’re just going to make sure there’s nowhere to escape to.

Truth is, there’s nowhere to run to anymore. The Bahamas look inviting, but then you find out what a stranglehold the government has on everything (they tax imports [and EVERYTHING is imported] at as much as 100%, they control the electicity and water), and it stops looking so good.

I’m afraid we have to stand and fight, folks. If I was an up-and-coming conservative politician, I’d be publishing a running list, on-line, of how I’m going to go about reversing the damage that Obama and the Democrat congress is doing to this country.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 

What may be the saddest part...

DONTREADONME (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:36AM EST (link)

is that in the past, people like me could move to different states, where the business environment was conducive to growth, lower income taxes and better cost of living. Unfortunately, with a over powering federal government becoming the burdening factor on business i.e. regulation and corporate taxation, there is no escape within CONUS; however, states could still provide a slight offset to the increased tax burden, which is certainly coming. However, there is nothing that will stop the regulation. Talent will follow the incentive and the self interest. Let there be no doubt that companies are now in holding pattern or are preparing to determine what is in there best interest to remain competitive. Anyway I think I tangented there.

 

If you are on Digg you should digg this story

Aaron Gardner (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:43AM EST (link)

If you are on Digg you should digg the story related here via this link.

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat


I dugg it.

itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:16PM EST (link)

And he’s right. Tough love some people call it.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 

What's sad is that us conservatives don't have an alternative

JoeG Thursday, April 9th at 1:13AM EST (link)

Libs can threaten to leave, and they have an alternative. They can go to Canada or Europe, and get what they are proposing. I wish they would and then leave us alone.

The US is (*gulp* WAS) unique in the world. Conservatives don’t have the same alternative.

We do have an altermative. To stand up and be conservative and fight until it hurts. And then go some more.

gekster (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 1:43AM EST (link)

True conservatives don’t run from adversity.
Tell me when Uncle Ronnie ran from a fight, or Democrat, or problem, or controversy, or enemy, or liberals, or bad ideas.
We have to have the guts to stand there and take it,
to give it back when our time comes around again.
And it will come around again.
And if you run, then you wont be here when we need you.
As an American, I would rather fight the good fight and die, then run from something I’m afraid of.
Otherwise I would be running all the time.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

55555 nt

mom2oneson (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 1:51AM EST (link)

And you can start by going to your local Tea Party on 4-15.

gekster (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 1:51AM EST (link)

I’ll be there in the capital of the Peoples Republic of Michigan in Lansing.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

Oh, I'll be there

JoeG Thursday, April 9th at 2:32AM EST (link)

I’ll be at the Oregon capital from noon until 2 PM.

I will be in Corvallis from 4:30 till it disperses.

My 4 year old son will be sporting a sign that reads:

“Why am I being forced to pay your mortgage?”

 
 

What About Conservatives That Leave Liberal States?

DavidSage (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 3:45AM EST (link)

You could also make the argument that conservatives that leave liberal states are also abandoning the fight against liberalism.

Personally, I don’t blame conservatives one bit for leaving places like California or New York to find a better way of life in the”Red States.”

I will continue to fight for this country, but I will leave it if election after election I see a clear consensus cemented in this nation for socialist policies to continue unabated. If Obama is just the beginning of the direction this country takes, I’m gone.

I’m certainly in Liberals “upper income” bracket, and you better believe I’m not going to give 75% or so of my income to the government as a form of patriotism. Taxes like that are not outside the realm of possibility, it’s what marginal rates were in this country before Reagan came to office, and it’s around the rate a lot of socialist-leaning countries levy.

To use a cliche, “I didn’t leave this country, it left me.”

it is actually higher than that David

kyle8 (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 7:28AM EST (link)

First of all, the “socialist” countries in Europe nearly all have lower taxes than we do now.

Second, when the rates were that high before, it was not the rate actually paid, there were all sorts of loopholes which have mostly been removed.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

The article was about running from the country, not from a state.

gekster (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 2:27PM EST (link)

Let me ask you, when it got tough at Vally Forge, where would we be if Washington had taken your attitude?
When the White house was burned in the war of 1812, our Capital was attacked, would you have left then.
When things got bad during the Civil war, you would have left?
On D-Day, Iwo JIma,

Now you might be taxed more than needed, be over run by Liberals, so you leave.
If that was the case here in Michigan, only Wayne County and a few Major cities would be populated. I’m still here because no mater what, I still have hope. I will not quit until I am DEAD.
And even then, being the stuborn Bas***rd that I am, I probably will still keep going.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

To pull a Kawalski, I may be wrong,but

gekster (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 2:32PM EST (link)

I took the article to be kind of sarcastic.
Like I say, I could be wrong

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 
 

I just wish

JoeG Friday, April 10th at 12:40AM EST (link)

We could get the liberals to stay in the liberal states. They’re fleeing too and turning the surrounding states purple.

 
 
 
 

Another "As Goes California"

Erick Brockway (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 1:56AM EST (link)

“The Rich”, people making barely over $50k, are preparing to abandon California in droves. But to where? Seems California will precede them in their departure.

 

My Day Job

wennejunk (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 5:36AM EST (link)

Here in the High Tech Industry has already begun moving our manufacturing operations to Singapore.

Salaries are lower, while property costs are higher so fixed costs will be about the same, so why move?

Management has been mostly non-commital about the details, but my direct manager told us the main driver was corporate taxes. It is just flat out much less expensive to manufacture in Singapore and ship to our (mostly Asian) customers than to operate in the US.

Those of us still working expect to be looking for work elsewhere in about 2 years. I have considered the idea of going along if asked, but so far it hasn’t come up.

Balancing the thought is what the others have written above: If I flee and I’m not here, I’m not available to fight the fight.

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis

Unemployed and competing with Singhapore

Next93 (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 10:58AM EST (link)

I’m in the high tech industry, and the company I work for went out of business last month. I’m on the streets (almost literally) looking for work, and I know that I’m competing with talent in Singhapore, the Ukraine, and India; not only will they work for about a third of what I need, but there’s a 40% tax on any profits I bring to a potential manager.

I’m running this race with a parachute strapped to my back, and the government has me carrying a 100-lb bag of cement.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

overseas

mom2oneson (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 11:11AM EST (link)

I’ve lost work many times because the client ditched the company I worked for or contract dropped them for offshore workers.

 
 
 

Atlas Shrugged

HerbC (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 9:45AM EST (link)

I’m reading this book by Ayn Rand for the first time. Fiction is quickly turning into non-fiction…
Remove the talent and the world will crumble upon itself.

 

When the "rich" leave:

Achance (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 10:52AM EST (link)

the first things that go are all the services and amenities. Juneau has very few old money rich people and really none by the definition you’d use for old money in the East or South. It has been however a very affluent town with an economy largely driven by the fact that it is the capital city of a wealthy state and has a lot of high level career employees and all or most of the appointees. There is a small, wealthy “owner” class, but most business here is now seasonal and has Outside owners. The profits of those businesses leave and only the typically low tourist industry wages stay here.

However, over the last several years, the top of the economic food chain has all but been eliminated here. Governor Knowles (Democrat) bought a major office building in Anchorage to house state offices and then allowed many appointees in his administration to live in ANC or elsewhere rather than move to Juneau. Nevertheless, most of the upper levels of the government stayed here. Gov. Murkowski required all but one of his commissioners to live in Juneau and maintained his office here. Though some jobs crept away during Murkowski’s administration, most of the top jobs stayed here. Gov. Palin has changed all that.

Only one of her commissioners lives in Juneau and very few directors are here. Where the commissioners and directors are, all the entourage follow. With the dramatic loss of the highest earning large cohort here, everyone who depended on their spending is either strapped, leaving, or gone already. The stock brokers who used to have fancy offices downtown are now in much more proletarian quarters in the ‘burbs. The drink selection, the wine list, and the menu have all shrunk in the downtown bars and restaurants. There is almost no live entertainment anymore in any of the bars and restaurants. The most you get is maybe a piano player or a pick up band playing for tips. A once lively after work social scene barely exists when the Legislature is in session and doesn’t exist at all when it isn’t here. To the extent that high-dollar houses are selling at all, they’re selling to people outside for investments or for summer homes. You can’t give a boat of any size away. A boat suitable for entertaining not so long ago was the standard accoutrement of any high-level officer or employee, lobbyist, or political player. That market simply doesn’t exist anymore (That’s a particular sore-point for me since I’d really like to sell my gas guzzling planing hull cruiser to some director or commissioner who would use it to entertain and to boat in stolen moments with a high-speed boat so I could have a nice, slow, roomy displacement hull boat.) There’s only one year-round jewelry store in town now. There’s no Men’s Clothing store anymore and only one Women’s Clothing. The only full-line department store is a chain store and the chain is now liquidating in Ch. 7. A successor is unlikely, so that’s some more empty retail space. There are two “malls” here, both of which are half empty. If you’re going to buy clothing here now, its Fred Meyer, WalMart, or online. The GM dealer is gone now and the Chryler dealer has moved his emphasis to Subarus and other imports. The Ford dealer sells almost exclusively pickups and used. The cultural amenities like concerts and live theatre are still here because they’re still hanging on to public money, but they too are strapped for private subscription and, frankly, aren’t long for this world because the lefties who love them can’t or won’t support them.

That’s what happens to an affluent town of 30, 000 people when you remove only a couple hundred of the highest earning people from the economy.

In Vino Veritas

last time I checked, AK was above the Mason-Dixon line

Next93 (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 11:04AM EST (link)

Hey, Achance – didn’t I just finish replying to your diary about your Civil War ancestors of a decidedly gray persuasion?

I know that AK is prone to earthquakes, but GEEZ, that must have been a big one. Can’t get much more Yankee than AK…

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

Not really, Next93.

Achance (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 11:15AM EST (link)

Between the military and the oil industry, Alaska has a decidedly Southern-influenced culture in the Railbelt Area – Anchorage, Fairbanks, Valdez, Kenai especially. Lots of expatriate Southerners here. Juneau is the usual West Coast polyglot.

I was born and raised in Georgia, came to Anchorage in ’74 and moved to Juneau in ’84. Gotta admit though that the almost 3 feet of snow still in my yard in the second week of April has “Georgia on My Mind.”

In Vino Veritas

 
 

That is terribly distressing.

itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:47PM EST (link)

To think that the high rollers are all public “servants” and when they pull out, all that is left are the poor says terrible things about our government.

There is no excuse for them to be living with long wine lists and menus, high dollar houses and fancy cars while the rest of us work to support them.

That is another thing that offends me about the Obamas. Their little soirees where they fed $100/lb beef to their guests made me want to tear their little royal crowns off.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

I've never been a public "servant."

Achance (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 1:14PM EST (link)

I’ve never been and never would be anyone’s “servant.” I have been a public employee who had very specialized skills and who charged the government every dime I could get for those skills. Your statements exemplify why most public employees hate Republicans. In my state, the geologists and petroleum enginers in DNR identify oil provinces and manage leases etc. The economists in Revenue manage an oil based economy and how that revenue is distributed into the State’s economy. When I was an appointee, I had pretty much untrammeled authority over the wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment of a workforce that was the State’s largest by many multiples. The largest private company in Alaska is considerably smaller than several State departments. So, the people who run all that are supposed to do it as a service to the people. I don’t think so!

Someone who runs for and is elected to office does so to serve the public and I suppose is appropriately considered a public servant.

In Vino Veritas

They are hired by us to do a job.

itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 2:12PM EST (link)

Many of them deserve a good wage, but you’ve worked in bureaucracy long enough to know that there are a lot more who are holding down chairs and holding up coffee cups.

And they are public servants. Even bureaucrats. And servants is not a bad word. It means someone who is there to protect and to serve. Too many of them see us as tits to suck, not as the Board of Directors that we are.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

Depends on where you are and

Achance (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 2:45PM EST (link)

what part of government you’re talking about. Productivity or lack thereof has more to do with lousy management that with the employees themselves. In the big Blue places, all jobs are essentially patronage even if there is a merit system. The government exists not to do stuff but to employ people. It really is just a way to spread the money around as our Dear Leader puts it. Even in Red state with Republican governments, the federally funded agencies are overstaffed and wasteful. There may not be enough direct service employees at the welfare office, but there’ll always be plenty of money for assistant deputy to the deputy assistant positions. Even relatively well-run governments tend to be 90-10 propositions in which ten percent of the people do ninety percent of the work.

I worked in a very controversial area and, frankly, never much gave damn what the public thought; they usually didn’t know enough to think anyway and were constantly manipulated by interest groups and the media. I cared what the Legislature, the Governor, and my chain of command to the governor thought, and that gave me enough heartburn without caring what Joe Sixpack thought.

In Vino Veritas

But the patronage is the problem.

itrytobenice (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 5:09PM EST (link)

In my very limited experience, the lady who files the deeds at the recorder’s office isn’t using the high dollar wine list at the restaurants.

The lady who gives me my license plates doesn’t own a party barge to take her contributors out on the lake.

It’s the people I don’t know. The ones who are there because their dad maxed out his election contribution are the ones who are high rollers.

And that’s a shame. We have too many suckers.

Proper grammar saves lives.

Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

 
 
 
 
 
 

Flee? Nope, just stop working.

ddstrain (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 11:16AM EST (link)

The other option out there, the one we are “striving” for, is to become less productive and earn less money. Within 2 years we hope to cut our income by 50% or more. Naturally, this means we will have less to contribute to the economy. No new car, no major purchases (hell, no minor purchases), fewer dinners out, fewer trips to the movies, shorter less expensive vacations (if any). Which naturally means fewer manufacting jobs, fewer tourism jobs AND less tax revenue (income, sales, hotel, air fare, gasoline, etc) for Feds and State governments. Which quite naturally will lead to higher deficits, fewer services and …. what do you know, higher taxes.

We could barely keep up with the taxes as they are now. My kids college money will be cashed out and sent to the IRS this year. Ah, the joys of being “rich”.

They want to turn us into little urban islands of backyard farmers and village craftsmen closely managed by a “benevolent” local apparatus that poo-poos competition and stifles advancement…just like the Middle Ages or the Soviet Union of 20 years ago. This seems to be all fine and dandy with many of my neighbors.

The Chicoms are more capitalist than we are. The Euro-socialists are more fiscally responsible than we are.

The capitalist in me really wants to take advantage of opportunity out there…but all my capital is being sucked up by the IRS.

That's Pretty Much What I'm Thinking Of Doing

IJB Thursday, April 9th at 12:28PM EST (link)

I’ve got one full-time teaching job, and usually a part-time job (or two) on the side. I worked two jobs last summer. As a result, my 2008 income was through the roof! Of course, I’m in CA, and my tax bill was huge – almost as big as when I worked in the private sector, when I was payed a lot more in salary.

So now I’m trying to limit my part-time side jobs.

And if I somehow lose the full-time gig, I’ll probably go to just taking a patchwork of part-time gigs. (Yeah, I’ll lose benefits, but I’m not sure I care right now…)

But it’s all about limiting income right now. Which is great for me anyway – gives me more free-time to poke around places like this! :)

 
 

You don't have to leave the country to "leave"

JDidSaint Thursday, April 9th at 11:30AM EST (link)

To fight, stop producing. That’s it. Thinking about opening up a new restaurant this year? Don’t. Board up the doors on your construction business for a couple years and take a job at Walmart. Cut your R&D department in half. Cut your whole staff in half and only accept half as many jobs.

If you think you’re fighting by producing more, you’re a fool. That’s like fighting mosquitoes by trying to ignore them. You may not feel them biting you as much in the short-term, but two weeks from now you’ll be regretting you fed the parasites.

There is something to be said for fighting within the system and I encourage it. But feeding the disease isn’t going to make us any stronger or the disease any weaker. Be sure to read Bill Whittle’s “Message to the Rich” linked above. He has a powerful lesson for the welfare state.

“I’d rather go through the pain of the re-emergence of free markets than endure the long suffering of a socialist state. One is natural and comes from that spark of human desire; the other is imposed and smothers the flame of ingenuity.”-Crowe (from RedState!)

I have left

izoneguy (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 11:38AM EST (link)

My accountant looked at my last quarter and said that many of her self-employed clients are doing what I am doing. No paychecks mean no taxes to Obama. In a good month I would probably pay the U.S. Treasury about $2400 give or take. The last quarter I paid about $1000 total. I take enough to pay bills and put food on the table.

The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.

 
 

Conservatives consider leaving in search of freedom

peg_c (Diary) Thursday, April 9th at 12:59PM EST (link)

while statists consider leaving in search of socialism. Alec Baldwin and a host of useful idiots come to mind.

Government cannot be the solution when government is the problem.