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	<title>Comments on: Loyalty</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/</link>
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		<title>By: gamecock</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>gamecock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-43</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;He ran as a republican to gain his seat but too often has slandered his own party. Not understanding what loyalty to him means except when he runs for re-election and if he does and has a priamry opponent that can win the general and is more loyal to conservative principles, then we should oppose McCain.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He ran as a republican to gain his seat but too often has slandered his own party. Not understanding what loyalty to him means except when he runs for re-election and if he does and has a priamry opponent that can win the general and is more loyal to conservative principles, then we should oppose McCain.</p>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Neil_Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil_Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I had a sneaking idea of Governor McCain appointing replacement Senator Shadegg, heh.  Oh well.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a sneaking idea of Governor McCain appointing replacement Senator Shadegg, heh.  Oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No way in hell.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Being Governor in Arizona is a zero job compared to being a high profile US Senator who gets tons of media attention.  And you can bet your boots that McCain will again be the darling of the media as the guy who reaches across the aisle, puts aside his feelings about being crushed at the polls and works with President Obama for the good of the American people.  (I&#039;ll be right back to finish this, I have to go barf...)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(OK, I&#039;m back...)  Being Governor also would require McCain to be an executive and to actually do things he&#039;s never done in public office.  Stuff like formulate a comprehensive plan to run the state.  Be accountable to voters for real pocket book results.  Deal with immigration in a state that has, according to the local lefty rag &quot;the most regressive immigration laws in the nation&quot; and has several very high profile elected officials - Sheriff Joe and the Maricopa County Attorney to name two - who are hell bent on making Maricopa County (Phoenix &amp; more than half the population of the state) very unfriendly to illegal immigrants and to the businesses that hire them.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, no.  McCain will continue to represent the people of Washington DC in the US Senate.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And to the second name in the comment title, I&#039;d love to see Shadegg as Governor.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No way in hell.</p>
<p>Being Governor in Arizona is a zero job compared to being a high profile US Senator who gets tons of media attention.  And you can bet your boots that McCain will again be the darling of the media as the guy who reaches across the aisle, puts aside his feelings about being crushed at the polls and works with President Obama for the good of the American people.  (I&#8217;ll be right back to finish this, I have to go barf&#8230;)</p>
<p>(OK, I&#8217;m back&#8230;)  Being Governor also would require McCain to be an executive and to actually do things he&#8217;s never done in public office.  Stuff like formulate a comprehensive plan to run the state.  Be accountable to voters for real pocket book results.  Deal with immigration in a state that has, according to the local lefty rag &#8220;the most regressive immigration laws in the nation&#8221; and has several very high profile elected officials &#8211; Sheriff Joe and the Maricopa County Attorney to name two &#8211; who are hell bent on making Maricopa County (Phoenix &amp; more than half the population of the state) very unfriendly to illegal immigrants and to the businesses that hire them.</p>
<p>So, no.  McCain will continue to represent the people of Washington DC in the US Senate.</p>
<p>And to the second name in the comment title, I&#8217;d love to see Shadegg as Governor.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil_Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil_Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-38</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;First of all, JD would get his clock completely cleaned by McCain.  He&#039;d be lucky to get within 30 points.  JD doesn&#039;t have a bunch of &quot;friends&quot; and no organization at all statewide &amp; I doubt if he could pull together much of an organization in Maricopa County (Phoenix).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As I&#039;ve stated before, I don&#039;t think Shadegg is interested.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Flake may be interested (I have no idea), but he has no organization outside his district and his name recognition statewide isn&#039;t all that great.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bottom line, if somebody is going to make a credible run against McCain in the primary they have to pretty much declare in the next couple of months in order to build a statewide organization and raise the money.  None of the potential contenders have anything that even remotely looks like a statewide organization.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When it comes time for the general, there won&#039;t likely be a credible candidate opposing McCain with Gov Napolitano heading up DHS.  The bench for statewide office is pretty shallow for both parties.  The point is that McCain won&#039;t have to spend much money to win in the general, he can concentrate on winning the primary and he&#039;s got a huge war chest that nobody will even come close to.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, JD would get his clock completely cleaned by McCain.  He&#8217;d be lucky to get within 30 points.  JD doesn&#8217;t have a bunch of &#8220;friends&#8221; and no organization at all statewide &amp; I doubt if he could pull together much of an organization in Maricopa County (Phoenix).</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve stated before, I don&#8217;t think Shadegg is interested.</p>
<p>Flake may be interested (I have no idea), but he has no organization outside his district and his name recognition statewide isn&#8217;t all that great.</p>
<p>Bottom line, if somebody is going to make a credible run against McCain in the primary they have to pretty much declare in the next couple of months in order to build a statewide organization and raise the money.  None of the potential contenders have anything that even remotely looks like a statewide organization.</p>
<p>When it comes time for the general, there won&#8217;t likely be a credible candidate opposing McCain with Gov Napolitano heading up DHS.  The bench for statewide office is pretty shallow for both parties.  The point is that McCain won&#8217;t have to spend much money to win in the general, he can concentrate on winning the primary and he&#8217;s got a huge war chest that nobody will even come close to.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil_Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil_Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-37</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nothing I&#039;m saying is official here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But it turns out that this pretty much &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; the official RS position: &quot;Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general&quot; is how I&#039;ve seen Erick formulate it.  And that I agree with.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for the pro-life thing, that&#039;s nothing new.  It&#039;s not a change just because you didn&#039;t know about it before because I don&#039;t think it was made public before.  At least, I only found out about it when I was vetted for the front myself.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing I&#8217;m saying is official here.</p>
<p>But it turns out that this pretty much <em>is</em> the official RS position: &#8220;Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general&#8221; is how I&#8217;ve seen Erick formulate it.  And that I agree with.</p>
<p>As for the pro-life thing, that&#8217;s nothing new.  It&#8217;s not a change just because you didn&#8217;t know about it before because I don&#8217;t think it was made public before.  At least, I only found out about it when I was vetted for the front myself.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveLA</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-36</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Neil&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Good to know, but are you speaking individually or somewhat wearing a more &quot;official&quot; hat? With the recent announcement of only &quot;Pro-Life&quot; front page posters, there is a breeze on RS coming from the somewhat more Rightward side of the ditch rather than Right of Center territory. Part of a new mission statement?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil</p>
<p>Good to know, but are you speaking individually or somewhat wearing a more &#8220;official&#8221; hat? With the recent announcement of only &#8220;Pro-Life&#8221; front page posters, there is a breeze on RS coming from the somewhat more Rightward side of the ditch rather than Right of Center territory. Part of a new mission statement?</p>
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		<title>By: bs</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>bs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-35</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the primary, if you oppose McCain&#039;s policies and behavior, by all means support another Republican.  But if he wins the primary, all resources should go to work towards a McCain victory in the general.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The &quot;who runs against him?&quot; question is a good one, and would be a good project for our AZ Redstate/GOP activists to work on.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the primary, if you oppose McCain&#8217;s policies and behavior, by all means support another Republican.  But if he wins the primary, all resources should go to work towards a McCain victory in the general.</p>
<p>The &#8220;who runs against him?&#8221; question is a good one, and would be a good project for our AZ Redstate/GOP activists to work on.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogenes314</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogenes314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-34</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The question isn&#039;t whether the electorate owes any loyalty to McCain, it is which candidate with a chance will actually run against him? I could see Shaddegg, Flake or  even Hayworth beating him in the primary. But I don&#039;t see any of the above running against him. As far as the general election, keep in mind a &#039;protest vote&#039; against McCain is nothing more or less than a vote for Harry Reid. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question isn&#8217;t whether the electorate owes any loyalty to McCain, it is which candidate with a chance will actually run against him? I could see Shaddegg, Flake or  even Hayworth beating him in the primary. But I don&#8217;t see any of the above running against him. As far as the general election, keep in mind a &#8216;protest vote&#8217; against McCain is nothing more or less than a vote for Harry Reid. </p>
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		<title>By: Neil_Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil_Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-33</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m all in favor of primarying incumbents.  Primaries are the one and only way that we can work within the party in order to effect change.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What I don&#039;t support are third parties, or running a continuous intraparty battle.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all in favor of primarying incumbents.  Primaries are the one and only way that we can work within the party in order to effect change.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t support are third parties, or running a continuous intraparty battle.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil_Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil_Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-32</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When the primary starts, have at it, by all means.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But if he wins the primary...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the primary starts, have at it, by all means.</p>
<p>But if he wins the primary&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;some Blue-Dog&#039;s might actually even believe in some of the Conservative values they espouse to get elected. HOWEVER, and this is where Conservatives (or Moderates) who vote for a Democrat lose sight of the big picture, voting in ANY Democrat enables the Jackass-Party leadership which is ALL VERY LIBERAL! It gets us to where we are today with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Obama, like Clinton, hammered the Conservative TAX-CUT with his phantom Middle-Class tax cut hiding the Welfare side of the equation of his plan. Like Clinton, he will abandon it (Lied all along to fools who believe Democrats would ever give ANYONE a permanent Tax cut) now. Actually, that is only partly true - Obama (I&#039;m sure) learned &quot;something&quot; and there will be some Tax Cut if nothing but IN NAME ONLY to fulfill the promise by repackaging some Bush Tax Cuts while eliminating others in order to BS the moderates into voting for his re-election. Obama ran some Pro-2nd-Amendment ads in some locations, despite his Anti-Gun record.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Again, Conservative values WON the Election, but it got more Democrats elected because people fell for the LIES of those who talked the Conservative talk but have no record or willingness to walk the walk once elected!!!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some Blue-Dog&#8217;s might actually even believe in some of the Conservative values they espouse to get elected. HOWEVER, and this is where Conservatives (or Moderates) who vote for a Democrat lose sight of the big picture, voting in ANY Democrat enables the Jackass-Party leadership which is ALL VERY LIBERAL! It gets us to where we are today with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.</p>
<p>Obama, like Clinton, hammered the Conservative TAX-CUT with his phantom Middle-Class tax cut hiding the Welfare side of the equation of his plan. Like Clinton, he will abandon it (Lied all along to fools who believe Democrats would ever give ANYONE a permanent Tax cut) now. Actually, that is only partly true &#8211; Obama (I&#8217;m sure) learned &#8220;something&#8221; and there will be some Tax Cut if nothing but IN NAME ONLY to fulfill the promise by repackaging some Bush Tax Cuts while eliminating others in order to BS the moderates into voting for his re-election. Obama ran some Pro-2nd-Amendment ads in some locations, despite his Anti-Gun record.</p>
<p>Again, Conservative values WON the Election, but it got more Democrats elected because people fell for the LIES of those who talked the Conservative talk but have no record or willingness to walk the walk once elected!!!</p>
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		<title>By: SteveLA</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-30</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Neil&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Glad to see at least you are rejecting the Ned Lamont model of politics pioneered by the nutroots from a certain Orange flavored site and their fellow travelers.   &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Seems the Rights version of the nutroots have trouble understanding the concept that they are not mainstream in any sense of the word and are becoming increasingly irrelevant as the country turns CENTER Right, not Extremist in ether direction.   &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil</p>
<p>Glad to see at least you are rejecting the Ned Lamont model of politics pioneered by the nutroots from a certain Orange flavored site and their fellow travelers.   </p>
<p>Seems the Rights version of the nutroots have trouble understanding the concept that they are not mainstream in any sense of the word and are becoming increasingly irrelevant as the country turns CENTER Right, not Extremist in ether direction.   </p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-29</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I must be forgiven on Sunday&#039;s for my odd comments :-)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must be forgiven on Sunday&#8217;s for my odd comments <img src='http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-28</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;because Democrats are running conservative pro-life, pro-second amendment people and we are running liberals in the guise of the Republican brand and the interesting part of that is Republicans won&#039;t vote for someone who doesn&#039;t walk their talk but the Democrats will vote for anyone with a D after their name.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;WE have something called CORE VALUE&#039;s it is not about winning for winning&#039;s sake and the quicker the Republican appratus learns that the quicker they will enjoy a majority again!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>because Democrats are running conservative pro-life, pro-second amendment people and we are running liberals in the guise of the Republican brand and the interesting part of that is Republicans won&#8217;t vote for someone who doesn&#8217;t walk their talk but the Democrats will vote for anyone with a D after their name.</p>
<p>WE have something called CORE VALUE&#8217;s it is not about winning for winning&#8217;s sake and the quicker the Republican appratus learns that the quicker they will enjoy a majority again!</p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-27</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;WE as a party must address and get back to....I do believe that people my age and older will remember in 4 years WHY it is they don&#039;t like liberals/leftist/socialist running the joint....so if WE just get back to basics we can win some in 2010 and some more in 2012 and all WE have to do is be true to spirit of the Conservative message that has won for us everytime!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WE as a party must address and get back to&#8230;.I do believe that people my age and older will remember in 4 years WHY it is they don&#8217;t like liberals/leftist/socialist running the joint&#8230;.so if WE just get back to basics we can win some in 2010 and some more in 2012 and all WE have to do is be true to spirit of the Conservative message that has won for us everytime!</p>
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		<title>By: PhxG</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>PhxG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-26</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;2008 broke my never having voted for McCain in 4 elections so I am pleased to return to my principals in 2010. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2008 broke my never having voted for McCain in 4 elections so I am pleased to return to my principals in 2010. </p>
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		<title>By: Jaded</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;nt&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nt</p>
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		<title>By: johninca</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/seriouslaff/2008/11/30/loyalty-2/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>johninca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-24</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course we owe McCain no loyalty. I liked the guy, but he&#039;s supposed to work for us, not the other way round. Arizonans have every right to mount a primary challenge.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The issue is one of prudence and common sense. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I was hoping to find other Americans interested in fighting pure evil Democrats. Instead, the talk I hear is about punishing heterodox Republicans. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At least I&#039;m getting a great education about why Democrats win so many elections.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course we owe McCain no loyalty. I liked the guy, but he&#8217;s supposed to work for us, not the other way round. Arizonans have every right to mount a primary challenge.</p>
<p>The issue is one of prudence and common sense. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I was hoping to find other Americans interested in fighting pure evil Democrats. Instead, the talk I hear is about punishing heterodox Republicans. </p>
<p>At least I&#8217;m getting a great education about why Democrats win so many elections.</p>
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