I voted for John McCain. I held my nose because Obama was worse. Now the election is over and I would like to ask a question. How much loyalty do Republicans owe John McCain?
Republicans have been more than loyal to him than he has been to us. He fought against the Bush tax cuts. He fought for a very unpopular immigration amnesty bill. He destroyed Republican fund raising with his anti free speech campaign finance reform. He has spent so much time over the past 8 years on television news shows trashing Republicans and reaching out to Democrats that he was considered for Kerry’s VP.
The threat of a primary opponent is all we have to keep any of our own Republican elected officials in line. If it is going to be business as usual and John McCain decides to go back and carry the water for the Democrats, then something should be done.
So, how loyal should we be? Are we obligated to keep EVERY candidate just because they currently occupy a Senate seat and run under the Republican banner? Once elected can they do ANYTHING they want? What is the point of winning an election only to have your candidate surrender to the opposition the minute he gets to Washington?
I am curious to know what the limits, if any, are of loyalty to McCain or anyone else in the Republican party.
Neil Stevens
Moe Lane
Steve Maley
Daniel Horowitz
Jake Walker
There is no loyalty in politics just ...
WHAT (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 8:33AM EST (link)temporary associations of mutual convenience. What is that old saying? If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog.
Excellent diary RECOMMENDED!
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:17PM EST (link)We owe him NOTHING he gave us NOTHING in and of himself…he sucked when he was chosen for us and he sucks now….there is no LOYALTY in politics….those idiots treat us like lemmings and I will treat those disloyal idiots the same….John McCain lemming number 1#…there MUST be someone who can run against him in the primary in that his STATE can’t stand him anymore than we can.
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Excellent diary RECOMMENDED!
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:17PM EST (link)We owe him NOTHING he gave us NOTHING in and of himself…he sucked when he was chosen for us and he sucks now….there is no LOYALTY in politics….those idiots treat us like lemmings and I will treat those disloyal idiots the same….John McCain lemming number 1#…there MUST be someone who can run against him in the primary in that his STATE can’t stand him anymore than we can.
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It depends
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:28PM EST (link)We owe loyalty through thick and thin to anyone we put up as a candidate, even if they vote a way we don’t like now and then. If RedState were to recruit and push a candidate, we’d need to be loyal. If we turned on a candidate we recruited, it’d ruin our ability to recruit in the future.
Beyond that, we as Republicans in general owe support to candidates who win Republican nominations and play by our party rules.
John McCain wins Republican nominations and backs other Republicans. We owe him a degree of support.
Ron Paul wins some Republican nominations but does not back other Republicans, instead backing fellow psychotics from other parties. We owe him ridicule.
So the loyalty starts when the primaries are over.
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and it ends when Neil? WE supported him in the general...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:38PM EST (link)is not our responsiblity now OVER?
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He's still a Senator (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:39PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Exactly. And if he is on the ticket in 2010, I'm voting for anyone but McCain.
phxg (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:49PM EST (link)nt
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
Hopefully only until 2010 :-)
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:56PM EST (link)He has done the most damage to the Republican Party as a Senator from our Party….I just want to be clear here…
WE can or cannot feel free to take on the Senator?
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I can't believe what I'm reading
johninca Sunday, November 30th at 2:03PM EST (link)Of course we owe McCain no loyalty. I liked the guy, but he’s supposed to work for us, not the other way round. Arizonans have every right to mount a primary challenge.
The issue is one of prudence and common sense. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I was hoping to find other Americans interested in fighting pure evil Democrats. Instead, the talk I hear is about punishing heterodox Republicans.
At least I’m getting a great education about why Democrats win so many elections.
Sounds like a play PhxG :-)
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:07PM EST (link)nt
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Yes. And when Napolitano goes to DC, it opens the field to many more people.
phxg (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:36PM EST (link)2008 broke my never having voted for McCain in 4 elections so I am pleased to return to my principals in 2010.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
Principles....those are very good things and something..
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:45PM EST (link)WE as a party must address and get back to….I do believe that people my age and older will remember in 4 years WHY it is they don’t like liberals/leftist/socialist running the joint….so if WE just get back to basics we can win some in 2010 and some more in 2012 and all WE have to do is be true to spirit of the Conservative message that has won for us everytime!
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Well no johninca....we lose so many elections...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:50PM EST (link)because Democrats are running conservative pro-life, pro-second amendment people and we are running liberals in the guise of the Republican brand and the interesting part of that is Republicans won’t vote for someone who doesn’t walk their talk but the Democrats will vote for anyone with a D after their name.
WE have something called CORE VALUE’s it is not about winning for winning’s sake and the quicker the Republican appratus learns that the quicker they will enjoy a majority again!
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That should have been PLAN but I type and watch football and it looks funny :-)
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:51PM EST (link)I must be forgiven on Sunday’s for my odd comments
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Rejecting the Ned Lamont model?
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 3:03PM EST (link)Neil
Glad to see at least you are rejecting the Ned Lamont model of politics pioneered by the nutroots from a certain Orange flavored site and their fellow travelers.
Seems the Rights version of the nutroots have trouble understanding the concept that they are not mainstream in any sense of the word and are becoming increasingly irrelevant as the country turns CENTER Right, not Extremist in ether direction.
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
exactly, Conservative values did NOT lose this election
JLenardDetroit (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 3:47PM EST (link)some Blue-Dog’s might actually even believe in some of the Conservative values they espouse to get elected. HOWEVER, and this is where Conservatives (or Moderates) who vote for a Democrat lose sight of the big picture, voting in ANY Democrat enables the Jackass-Party leadership which is ALL VERY LIBERAL! It gets us to where we are today with Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.
Obama, like Clinton, hammered the Conservative TAX-CUT with his phantom Middle-Class tax cut hiding the Welfare side of the equation of his plan. Like Clinton, he will abandon it (Lied all along to fools who believe Democrats would ever give ANYONE a permanent Tax cut) now. Actually, that is only partly true – Obama (I’m sure) learned “something” and there will be some Tax Cut if nothing but IN NAME ONLY to fulfill the promise by repackaging some Bush Tax Cuts while eliminating others in order to BS the moderates into voting for his re-election. Obama ran some Pro-2nd-Amendment ads in some locations, despite his Anti-Gun record.
Again, Conservative values WON the Election, but it got more Democrats elected because people fell for the LIES of those who talked the Conservative talk but have no record or willingness to walk the walk once elected!!!
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That's what primaries are for
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 5:11PM EST (link)When the primary starts, have at it, by all means.
But if he wins the primary…
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I'm not really rejecting the Lamont model though
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 5:13PM EST (link)I’m all in favor of primarying incumbents. Primaries are the one and only way that we can work within the party in order to effect change.
What I don’t support are third parties, or running a continuous intraparty battle.
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Who's going to bell the cat?
Diogenes314 (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 5:29PM EST (link)The question isn’t whether the electorate owes any loyalty to McCain, it is which candidate with a chance will actually run against him? I could see Shaddegg, Flake or even Hayworth beating him in the primary. But I don’t see any of the above running against him. As far as the general election, keep in mind a ‘protest vote’ against McCain is nothing more or less than a vote for Harry Reid.
That's Neil's point
Bill S (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 5:43PM EST (link)In the primary, if you oppose McCain’s policies and behavior, by all means support another Republican. But if he wins the primary, all resources should go to work towards a McCain victory in the general.
The “who runs against him?” question is a good one, and would be a good project for our AZ Redstate/GOP activists to work on.
“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins
You personally or....
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 5:48PM EST (link)Neil
Good to know, but are you speaking individually or somewhat wearing a more “official” hat? With the recent announcement of only “Pro-Life” front page posters, there is a breeze on RS coming from the somewhat more Rightward side of the ditch rather than Right of Center territory. Part of a new mission statement?
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Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Nothing official
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 6:30PM EST (link)Nothing I’m saying is official here.
But it turns out that this pretty much is the official RS position: “Conservative in the primary, Republican in the general” is how I’ve seen Erick formulate it. And that I agree with.
As for the pro-life thing, that’s nothing new. It’s not a change just because you didn’t know about it before because I don’t think it was made public before. At least, I only found out about it when I was vetted for the front myself.
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Shadegg, Flake and Heywood...
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 6:46PM EST (link)First of all, JD would get his clock completely cleaned by McCain. He’d be lucky to get within 30 points. JD doesn’t have a bunch of “friends” and no organization at all statewide & I doubt if he could pull together much of an organization in Maricopa County (Phoenix).
As I’ve stated before, I don’t think Shadegg is interested.
Flake may be interested (I have no idea), but he has no organization outside his district and his name recognition statewide isn’t all that great.
Bottom line, if somebody is going to make a credible run against McCain in the primary they have to pretty much declare in the next couple of months in order to build a statewide organization and raise the money. None of the potential contenders have anything that even remotely looks like a statewide organization.
When it comes time for the general, there won’t likely be a credible candidate opposing McCain with Gov Napolitano heading up DHS. The bench for statewide office is pretty shallow for both parties. The point is that McCain won’t have to spend much money to win in the general, he can concentrate on winning the primary and he’s got a huge war chest that nobody will even come close to.
Any chance he'd run for Governor to cap off the career? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 6:48PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Assuming you're talking about McCain and not Shadegg...
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 7:01PM EST (link)No way in hell.
Being Governor in Arizona is a zero job compared to being a high profile US Senator who gets tons of media attention. And you can bet your boots that McCain will again be the darling of the media as the guy who reaches across the aisle, puts aside his feelings about being crushed at the polls and works with President Obama for the good of the American people. (I’ll be right back to finish this, I have to go barf…)
(OK, I’m back…) Being Governor also would require McCain to be an executive and to actually do things he’s never done in public office. Stuff like formulate a comprehensive plan to run the state. Be accountable to voters for real pocket book results. Deal with immigration in a state that has, according to the local lefty rag “the most regressive immigration laws in the nation” and has several very high profile elected officials – Sheriff Joe and the Maricopa County Attorney to name two – who are hell bent on making Maricopa County (Phoenix & more than half the population of the state) very unfriendly to illegal immigrants and to the businesses that hire them.
So, no. McCain will continue to represent the people of Washington DC in the US Senate.
And to the second name in the comment title, I’d love to see Shadegg as Governor.
Yeah I meant McCain
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 7:02PM EST (link)I had a sneaking idea of Governor McCain appointing replacement Senator Shadegg, heh. Oh well.
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What a sweet dream that would be!!! :>)
mbecker908 (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 7:14PM EST (link)McCain's owes loyalty to the party more than vice versa
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:21PM EST (link)He ran as a republican to gain his seat but too often has slandered his own party. Not understanding what loyalty to him means except when he runs for re-election and if he does and has a priamry opponent that can win the general and is more loyal to conservative principles, then we should oppose McCain.
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