Harry Reid just went there.
In a stunning parliamentary move, Reid invoked the infamous “nuclear option” this evening on the Senate floor to bar Republicans from getting votes on amendments without Reid’s permission. In short, he used a simple majority to do an end run around the rules of the Senate that make it the greatest deliberative body in the world.
Here is what is going on. Harry Reid brought a bill to the floor to impose protectionist sanctions on China. He didn’t want anyone to offer any amendments all week that were uncomfortable for his Democrat Senators, even though it is a key feature of the Senate to be able to force votes on any matter that a Senator deems important. In order to prevent Republicans from forcing votes on the President’s new stimulus plan, Reid used his ability as the Majority Leader to “fill the tree” by offering meaningless amendments that served only to block Republican amendments. Republicans figured out a way to get around him by offering procedural motions (instead of formal amendments) that would require 67 votes to pass but would secure the roll-call vote to get Democrats on the record.
The GOP manuever fit perfectly within the rules of the Senate. The Senate parliamentarian said so. Reid responded by having the Senate overturn the parliamentarian’s ruling. He won his appeal by a vote of 51 to 48 and thereby changed the rules of the Senate by simple majority. Senate rules are supposed to require 67 votes to be changed. This was the nuclear option long contemplated by Republicans in response to Democrats’ blockade of conservative judges, but was never used, in part because of what it would mean to the Senate’s future as a deliberative body. It was feared that it would ruin the filibuster.
Harry Reid pulled the trigger on a bill that had every chance of passing the Senate. Senate Republicans did not have the votes to stop it, so all that was in jeopardy was Harry Reid’s patience and his party’s comfort over having to take a tough vote.
The filibuster is still intact, but by invoking the nuclear option with regard to these Republican motions, Reid has established a precedent that will work to it’s long-term ruin. That is not a good thing for conservatives. I understand that many want the filibuster to go away when conservatives are in control and trying to pass important policy. But the filibuster is about securing a minority’s right to be heard. A government that allows the majority to trample the rights of a minority loses its legitimacy to govern. The majority isn’t always right, and the Senate has always been one of our nation’s most enduring checks against its tyranny.
The Senate as a deliberative body took a major hit tonight. And all because Harry Reid lost his cool and didn’t want to vote on his own President’s stimulus plan.
Victoria Coates
Daniel Horowitz
shows how desperate
clintonformccain Thursday, October 6th at 9:44PM EST (link)The Dems are desperate enough to do anything to stop McConnell’s call to vote NOW on Obama’s bill, just as the Prez has been demanding.
Not to worry-
johnCV (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 9:55PM EST (link)the republicans will never use this maneuver – in the name of bi-partisanship, of course. Graham/Mccain/Snow/Lugar/Cornyn would never allow it, I mean, what would the media say about such an awful thing?
The media sez..... chirp... chirp... chirp
Old_Crow (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:09PM EST (link)This is all about Reid et all not wanting to support Obama’s faux ‘jobs’ bill. However, once you use a nuke, it’s awfully hard to convince your adversary to go back to the ol’ 9mm…
If Reid wants a fight – let’s give him one.
“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” — James Madison
Feckless GOP Leadership
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:30AM EST (link)What has happenedm, please correct me if I have misunderstood:
Cloture was the fig leaf allowing for a procedural vote to stop or force compromise on particularly odious bills.
Now if will require an actual fillibuster to stop any bill.
That won’t happen.
Now…Reid and the Dems have absolute power in the Senate just as when Pelosi was Speaker, needing only 1 vote more to pass anything and everything.
The feckless McConnell, Cornyn, and other GOP Leadership now will be boxed in with their surrender to the Dems regarding the Debt Ceiling compromise with its automatic huge cuts to DoD if a ‘compromise’ isn’t found among the “Super Committee” by November.
Does the Senate Leadership now agree to tax increases as the Dems want, otherwise the automatic, already programmed areas for targeting cuts are invoked?
GOP Feckless Leadership (correction)
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:33AM EST (link)Does the GOP Senate Leadership now agree to tax increases and/or large DoD cuts as the Dems want, otherwise the automatic, already programmed areas for targeting cuts are invoked?
strategic surrender
jacobite Saturday, October 8th at 3:24PM EST (link)Playing to not-lose against an opponent playing to win is just slo-mo surrender. The GOP is hopeless.
That's why Reid does it
kenchely Saturday, October 8th at 10:09PM EST (link)Reid pulls a maneuver like this now. The Republicans take the majority, and Reid, that lying piece of excrement, will shriek that the Republicans are engaged in “unprecedented” hardball for doing exactly what he did. THEN, if the Democrats regain the majority, he will go right ahead as if he had never objected to it. He is the most shameless liar the Senate has had in my memory, and I’ve seen some real prizes–Chris Dodd, Pat Leahy, and others.
PLEASE–the next time we’ve got a chance to get rid of someone like this, do NOT scream for the farthest-right possible candidate. Danny Tarkanian would have gotten rid of this puke. Sue Lowden might have had a chance. But Sharron Angle was just too far right. Get someone who will win the seat.
We need payback on the state that kept this bum in office
powertothepeople (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:04PM EST (link)so I am starting a grassroots movement that will involve every conservative in the state of Nevada or anyone who is close to the state or who come close to the state to take a crap somewhere discreet but with no toilet. That way the state of Nevada can get a taste of what they did to the whole country when they allowed this POS to crap on the whole nation.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
chbroussard (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:09PM EST (link)nt
McCain and the rest of the gang of 14 weasels end up with eg on their faces now don't they?
AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:11PM EST (link)They threw a bunch of Bush Judicial nominees under the bus because they didn’t want to upset the “Comity” of the upper chamber and conservatives took one in the rear because of it….and here we are a few years later…and Reid pulls the trigger….no hesitation…no consideration for the comity for the upper chamber and without regard for his “Friend” the distinguished Senior from Arizona…and somehow conservatives are finding it hard to sit down yet again…
Funny how this works isn’t it…no matter what…we take it from behind without so much as a kiss on the cheek…and the clowns we put in leadership continue with the charade that there is comity, bipartisanship and general good will in the Senate as if the Democrats are not our mortal enemies who represent the death of this great country and everything we hold dear.
I thought the gang of 14 had some dems in it
earlgrey (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:18PM EST (link)did any of those dems vote with REid on this tonight? I’d like to know.
I would also like to see McCain the rest of the “reach-across-the-aisles” to give their comments on what happened tonight and explain to me why they will continue to try to be bipartisan — because you know that they will not fight back.
good point...I'm sure there are some of the GO14 who voted for the nuke option
AceInTX (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:23PM EST (link)t’would be nice to see their noses rubbed in it to be sure
GOP Loyalist Leadership must go
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:39AM EST (link)Focus on McConnell and Cornyn (Kyl is retiring). They are the one’s that undercut the Speaker/House on the bill to Cut, Balance, and Amendment bill.
Excellent
popdaddy Thursday, October 6th at 10:28PM EST (link)When the voters provide a GOP controlled Senate and increases its margin in the House November 2012, new GOP leadership in both has to be part of the equation.
Hard to fault McConnell
clintonformccain Thursday, October 6th at 10:42PM EST (link)Instead of hammering McConnell this week, we should be applauding him for sticking the knife in Obama’s back. He keeps standing at the podium reading quotes from all of Obama’s pleas to vote on the jobs bill NOW. Then, using every possible avenue to force an immediate vote NOW, just like the President wants.
The fact that Reid had to go nuclear to stop it make it more than clear that Obama is just playing games.
I agree w/ you. McConnell sometimes frustrates
trickamsterdam Thursday, October 6th at 11:02PM EST (link)because he’s such an establishment type (his unacceptable deal to let Obama raise the debt ceiling unilaterally w/ only a 2/3 vote being able to stop him comes to mind). But on strategy, no one’s better (especially when compared to Boehner).
***
I’m not contradicting the author of this thread, he obviously understands the Senate rules better than me, but is this really the nuclear option?
That was always about breaking a filibuster…but this bill wasn’t being filibustered. I wonder if this isn’t a kind of “arcane rules” thing to save time, that has been done before, we just haven’t noticed?
If it is the nuclear option, I guess Reid could be that stupid (because he is stupid), but I’d expect him to back track, quickly, as it gets them nothing as long as the Rs still control the House…but could lose them everything if the Rs also get WH and Senate in 2012 (as is likely, although by no means certain).
The nuclear option was predicated on
cwilson (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:54AM EST (link)using this same procedure — a simple majority — to change the standing rules of the Senate, rather than the 2/3 vote those same rules required.
For instance, the Constitution says it takes a 2/3 vote of both Houses, plus approval of 3/4 of the states, to amend the Constitution. Suppose a parliamentary trick was used to nullify Article V, and establish a precedent that, no, you really only need a simply majority of one House, plus two states to agree, in order to do that. (Yes, yes, I hear you: “You can’t do that; it’s against the rules!” Stay with me…)
That’s analogous to what Reid just did — using the same /procedure/ that would have been used for the actual “nuclear” option back in 2005, he has ratified the technique. There’s no reason, now that the precedent has been set, not to use it in the future.
Now that Reid and the Democrats have established the precedent — “Hey, it’s fine for the a simple majority in the Senate to change the rules, if they think they’ll lose some vote that ordinarily would require a supermajority” — there’s no reason for the Republicans to take a hands-off stance with regards to that tool. There is no “preserve the historic deliberative nature of the Senate” argument any more — the Dems have already torpedoed that. And since they WILL use it again, it would be pointless for the Republicans to unilaterally disarm, when the Dems have demonstrated their willingness to use weapon.
Live by the sword, Reid, die by the sword.
The 113th Congress should be a sight to behold.
(BTW, this would have no bearing on Obamacare anyway. It was passed under reconciliation — e.g. non-filibusterable, requiring only a simple majority — so it can be repealed using the same procedure, regardless of these parliamentary shenanigans).
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
Thanks for the cool and interesting response:
trickamsterdam Friday, October 7th at 6:36AM EST (link)Agreeing w/ almost all of what you said, I have to say, only part of Obamacare was done w/ budg. rec., so I would think, only the parts that were done by budget rec., could be killed that way…ironically, I think the Mandate is not one of those.
Still, I agree w/ you, the 113th will be interesting to see…
But we need the WH. Even though they say this is Reid’s move, the VP is the President of the Senate…I know the nuclear option has something important to do w/ him, since I remember that from when I had it explained to me once (I barely understood it then, but I remember that).
Meaning, maybe they (the Democrats) think they’ll keep the WH and retake the House. And this is their attempt to set up for it in 2013.
The interesting thing is, even under the current rules, we (the Rs) can do tax reform and deficit reduction w/ only budget Reconciliation. We don’t really need “The Nuke” for most of what we want to do.
But if we have it? Yes, all things are possible. I’m not sure who it will benefit most, in the long run, the Ds or the Rs…
I would like to keep the filibuster. But everything changes. Adapt or die, as you imply, and science says.
McConnell and Cornyn Leaders Must Go
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:37AM EST (link)They must go now, not after the elections. I just can’t stand the GOP anymore. They haven’t an ounce of moral standing. They have miserably failed to advance the concepts of Constitutional government.
Hello? Media? *tap*tap*tap* Hello?
Jewels Thursday, October 6th at 10:29PM EST (link)Anyone out there?
I hope
proudgop (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 10:59PM EST (link)voters of Arkansas and Missouri realize that Pryor and McCaskill were the last 2 to switch to weasel Reid
McConnell is doing his job
GregInFla (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:07PM EST (link)From RollCall tonight:
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.
Obama is in full on Demogogue mode. So come on folks,
Tbone (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:20PM EST (link)someone, tell me this guy wouldn’t become the first America dictator if he could.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Tbone, surely get it? This was a MAJOR gift to conservatives, especially those
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:39PM EST (link)that had only revered the filibuster so long as we didn’t have to be the ones that chucked this meaningless tradition. The Dems have disrespected the “holy” senate rule that served mainly to cement in place liberal changes. Now we can repeal ObamaCare and Big Government in 2013 without having all the “guilt”.
I have long bemoaned how so many Republicans seemed to love the Senate more than their Country. Would Republicans actually re-impose this rule in 2013 and thus handicap themselves from being able to rill back the laws that are killing this country?
God help us if that is so.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
One thing Mike.
gekster (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:52PM EST (link)The Republicans in the Senate have proven time and again that they are more than willing to go stupid.
History is against them.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
I know, which is why I am making a rare breaking news appearance! To SHAME the weenies
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:59PM EST (link)into seeing the damn forest and framing the issue so that the only way they can NOT repeal ObamaCare and much of the Big Government state will be to admit they are part of the ruling class elites. A major argument twice over the past decade by many conservatives has been that they didn’t want to be FIRST to upset the filibuster rule and change the rules. So I am reminding them of that argument and that Reid’s action today means that we won’t have to be first. The senate worshipers can now do the right thing on substance for us poor schlubs outside the senate with a clear conscious!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Point taken Mike.
gekster (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:07AM EST (link)But I have an affection fo rthe filibuster.
No side should have the power eliminating the filibuster should have.
Wether Dems or Repubs.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
Save your affection for the Constitution
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:20AM EST (link)Senate rules can be changed by a mere majority rule. That is what the Constitution provides. Any other stance allows one legislature to handcuff another. The filibuster is no more sacred then the provision in Obamacare that says it can’t be repealed.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
The Constitution provides that power already
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:22AM EST (link)To pretend that it doesn’t is to propagate a lie.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
exactly right. When the Constitution says "the senate" can makes its own rules, it means
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:29AM EST (link)a mere majority.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Not Exactly...
Stan Olshefski Friday, October 7th at 10:48AM EST (link)Since the Senate is a “continuing body” — unlike the House — the standing rules of the Senate continue in perpetuity until changed. In the House, you have to pass a rules package each Congress because it is not the same body.
Stan, you are correct on the "continuing body" characterization but incorrect on the far more important substantive issue
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 8:46PM EST (link)51 Senators can change the Senate rules at any time.
218 House Members can similarly change the House rules at any time.
Any Senate or House rule that purports to contradict the conclusions above is unconstitutional in the same way that a statute prohibiting the repeal of Obamacare would be unconstitional. Only the Constitution can impose a supermajority requirement on a house of Congress that is not itself subject to repeal by a mere majority.
Congress cannot bind a future Congress without a Constitutional amendment. Congress can out of a stupid sense of tradition handcuff itself, but if a majority of the Senate wants to unhandcuff itself by changing a rule–the rule is changed.
Put another way, the Senate Rule requiring a super-majority to amend the Senate Rules is unconstitutional.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
I'm not holding my breath for the leadership to telegraph that punch
usdebateboard Friday, October 7th at 12:01AM EST (link)I didn’t even hear DeMint thining out loud that far ahead when he was on Levin talking about it.
What is said and done now is akin to living wills signed when one is healthy
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:24AM EST (link)What matters is what is done by the new GOP senate in 2013, but it would be nice if the mice in the DC box with the GOP label would remember us schlubbs outside the beltway.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Then I'll simply say there's no data to suggest the current leadership wouldn't break our heart
usdebateboard Friday, October 7th at 1:03AM EST (link)on ths.
Here's a prime example of how the stupid our leadership can be
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 1:11AM EST (link)they allowed Obama to raise the Debt ceiling and agreed to automatic cuts to Defense if nothing is done by this super committee to cut spending by a certain amount…
and Cornin is already out there talking on Fox Talk Radio the other day talking about our need to compromise in order to avoid draconian cuts to defense spending…
so…her we have the geniuses who call themselves leaders not only putting the noose around their own necks, but they have sprung the trap door underneath themselves at the same time…
so why should we believe they won’t go back and reinstate the rules tying their own hands?
Cornyn of Texas
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:46AM EST (link)He will be the Number 2 in the GOP Leadership after Kyl retires. I can’t stand this slimey (procedural vote Conservative) fence sitting Loyalist.
GOP Feckless Leadership
falconflight Friday, October 7th at 8:44AM EST (link)Senator DeMint sounded shell shocked to me.
You should know the answer to this Mike...the answer is...Yes
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 1:03AM EST (link)Would Republicans actually re-impose this rule in 2013 and thus handicap themselves from being able to rill back the laws that are killing this country?
They’ve done so in the past…no reason to expect them to change now….they’ll hamstring themselves to show how magnanimous they are in the hopes they’ll get good press for it….no doubt the WaPo and NYT will give them a page twelve blurb about the rules change…and dutifully go back to taking dictation from the Commi/Libs and the next time the Dems are back in power they will stick one in us again.
Republicans will never have the stones GC.
Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 8:39AM EST (link)This is a parliamentary procedure which is not really understood by most people. It is not something easily explained. Using nomenclature such as the “nuclear option” still does not help ordinary folks get what’s going on.
Republicans suck at creating two sentence explanations which bridge this gap of understanding. Then to make matters worse for folks that do comprehend this matter, groups such as the “Gang of 14″ and people like McConnell stand up and tell us how not using this option is the “right thing to do”. Sure. Right.
That just tells me Republicans are unaware of the gravity and seriousness of our situation.
When faced with monumental problems, one uses all means at their disposal to resolve them. Only losers shrink and shirk their responsibility. They make excuses and couch their tripe in flowery language or ethereal, idealistic concepts as a self-serving excuse for their lack of vision and determination. In contract, principled leaders have no such compunctions. They are fortuitous, confident, unbounded and unrelenting.
If we ever want to roll back this destructive behemoth Democrats have created, then we need to conversely use the same extreme measures responsible for our loss of liberty. Once we have restored a sensible role for government, we can revert to sane practices. But, not a minute before that advent. This will be the only method which convinces our adversaries that a lack of democratic process, fairness and collegiality will be met with equal or greater action.
Weakness is not virtuous, nor is it a desirable quality of principled people. It is an attribute of failure, the conquered, the dispassionate and others resigned to their enslavement. For our sake, let’s hope someone has the strength to lead and make prudent decisions.which will sustain our republic, not make its destruction a fait accompli.
“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson
Ace, Marcus et al - sad. Has any GOP senator or any GOP leader suggested this
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:06AM EST (link)move is a great opportunity for us should be re-take the senate, which seems inevitable to me in this environment?
Surely some will understand that ObamaCare’s continued existence is one of the biggest job creation impediment in US history and the real gateway to socialism writ large?
I said back during the “BushLied” Era that so many Republicans with McCain as leader love the senate more than the USA. They continued to refer to their “honorable” Dem friends even as they slandered Bush on WMD.
And now you all say that even DeMint doesn’t get it!
God help us.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
The GOP has NEVER held a filibuster majority since the progressive era
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:41PM EST (link)Screw the filibuster. Now we can fix what ails us with 51 votes. Surely this gazing at trees and not seeing the forest will end before 2013.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Agreed. Just as important is the broader issue
JSobieski (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:48PM EST (link)Of legislative accountability. The ability of Congress to use base closing commissions, the special super budget committee, and yes cloiture rules to hide a majority from public accountability needs to end. This isn’t about short term gain. The fillibuster is based on a lie that 51 Senators were somehow unable to change the rules of the Senate
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
great points 'ski. Accountability! amen, the Dems have hid behind such devices to
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, October 6th at 11:54PM EST (link)avoid same for decades.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
This didn't affect the filibuster
Death_of_the_Donkey (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 8:12AM EST (link)as the author pointed out, the cloture vote already had taken place and passed with 62 votes. This had to do with preventing a second “shadow” filibuster through an endless amendment process. The filibuster needs to stay to protect the minority. The political point scoring endless amendment process can go (it will help us too) once cloture votes are passed. I have no problem with getting rid of a process that had no benefit other than for scoring political points (for both sides, the Dems did it to us too when we were in the majority) and that did nothing more than stop the Senate from actually conducting business.
It goes to the heart of what underlies the filibuster
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 9:35AM EST (link)Reid invoked the “it takes 51 Senators to change the rules of the Senate” rule in the Senate. That same rule can abolish or change the filibuster.
If 51 Senators decide that only unanimous bills can receive a vote, then only unanimous bills received a vote. If 51 Senators decide that only 51 Senators are required to break cloture, then only 51 Senators are requireed to break cloture.
The filibuster isn’t unconstitutional per se, rather it is the faulty coclusion that a simple majority can’t chuck the filibuster rule at any time is constitutionally offensive. Senate rules exist at the discretion of the Senate majority.
I have a problem with any reasoning that suggests that the Senate is not free at any time to change its rules based on a majority vote. The Constitution matters. So does the truth. People can argue for the merits of the filibuster, and that is right and good in a free nation. There are some good reasons to keep the filibuster, even if I find myself in disagreement. However, people denying that the Senate has the Constitutional right to change its rules based on a majority vote are speaking out on the side of falsehood against the side of truth.
This is not primarily a utilitarian issue of an endless amendment process, etc. This has to do with the fact that the convoluted Senate has used its own rules with phony justifications in support of those rules to convince the American people that the Senate isn’t really responsible for anything. The Senate has appeared to tie its hands when in actuality 51 Senators could untie those hands at any moment.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
I never suggested
Death_of_the_Donkey (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 9:55AM EST (link)that the Senate wasn’t free to change its rules however it wants and whenever it wants. What I did suggest is that there is a distinction between what went on here and eliminating the filibuster.
The Reid move removes an impediment that many GOP senators
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:08AM EST (link)have cited in the past to the GOP getting rid of the filibuster. Reid did eliminate a long-standing 60-vote rule. A rose by another name smells as weet? Yes, I think so.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
What went on is that the rules were changed by 51 Senators
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:18AM EST (link)The underlying principle to what Reid did and undoing the filibuster are the same.
Its a very specific principle at stake here, but is has incredibly broad ramifications. If you want to point out that a candle produces less heat than a fire in a fireplace, I won’t argue about those distinctions. I am simply saying that a match has been lit.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
I'll bet Reid is counting on the WaPo, NYT, LAT, CNN, etc... covering for him
smagar (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:19AM EST (link)This is, admittedly, inside baseball stuff for non-political junkies…i.e., most of the American electorate. If you don’t follow politics closely, it’s easy to misunderstand what Reid just did.
More to the point, it’s easy for someone to deliberately befuddle you on matters like this.
Expect the MSM, which writ large is committed to the success of Democratic politics, to ignore this story. If they’re forced to cover it, expect them to make it sound like (a) irrelevant inside-baseball stuff or (b) just another example of politicians of BOTH parties behaving like spoiled brats.
Reid certainly expects this. He expects his MSM allies to blow the smoke he needs to slink away on this one. If I were Reid, I’d expect it too.
If the “respectable” MSM organs cover for Reid on this one, we can take it as even more proof that they’ve abandoned any real desire to be nonpartisan.
“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)
What the MSM does is essentially a sideshow. The MSM can't stop a 2013 GOP senate from
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:25AM EST (link)passing all kinds of laws with 51 votes.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Wish I had more faith in McConnell
usdebateboard Friday, October 7th at 12:29AM EST (link)I mean, they guy could surround himself with any capos he wanted to, and he picked Murkowski, Bennett and Hutchinson, and would have been content to bring Mike Castle into the fold,too.
Fine with me. And, when the MSM is shocked! shocked! when the GOP Senate repeals Obamacare with 51 votes...
smagar (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 7:26AM EST (link)…when the MSM criticizes us for using the Senate majority in spiteful ways that damage the fabric of American politics, we should point back to this incident and ask the MSM where their outrage was then.
“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)
amen 'gar!
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:09AM EST (link)nt
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
To M gc DeV: thank you for keeping it simple and
funwithknives Friday, October 7th at 3:01PM EST (link)‘splain-in it for me, at least. Procedures have never been my strong suit. Any Recc.’s on a tutorial, under, say…..200 pages? all Assistance is appreciated. Thanx much, fwk
The other great argument for filibuster deification also doesn't obtain, ie that absent same the Dems could do anything! Hello, they already did and
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:27AM EST (link)its killing this country. We are living in the crisis now and we must kill ObamaCare before its fingers wrap themselves around more and more would-be dependant victims.
For now, let’s get Romney on the record!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I believe between reid, smuck schumer, durbin, murray and obama
bobojake (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:32AM EST (link)the democrat party will take at least 20 years to recover from the Nov 2012 elections. Americans do not like the obamacrat LIARS, Cheaters and Liars.
Don't forget them falling all over each other to give their props to Occupy Wall Street
usdebateboard Friday, October 7th at 12:41AM EST (link)n/t
Okay, I know gloating is childish and rude, but...
cwilson (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 1:01AM EST (link)I just can’t help myself.
Hey, spiral: Neener neener neener. I told you so: our restraint in 2005 in no way prevents the Dems from using the nuclear option if they feel it is to their (short term) advantage. They WILL do it, and no gang of fourteen will stop them.
And now they have. And there are 15 months until the 112th Congress draws to a close.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! –Samuel Adams
It seams they forget when they yelled..
gekster (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 1:09AM EST (link)the consent of the minority.
But that was only becausr they were in the minority.
Now in the majority, it is screw the minority.
Repubs try to work with Dems.
Dems, not so much.
When will tthe Repubs wake wake up.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved
amen cwilson! This is one of the reasons I broke Gamecock tradition and
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:11AM EST (link)commented on a breaking story. I remember all those that said yes, it would be nice to get rid of the filibuster but that we needed for the Dems to do it first.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Reid don't care
daniel22 Friday, October 7th at 7:05AM EST (link)what anybody thinks! Unfortunately he was re-elected because here in Nevada we had a bunch of near-sighted political pundits that could not figure out how he engineered his campaign. The unions were all for him for obvious reasons and the casinos literally owed him as he was instrumental in securing re-financing.
That being said he won’t be going for re-election and for him it is all about agenda agenda agenda. His son ran for governor and lost. Now he wants to get Shelley Berkley (a Pelosi clone) in as junior senator with his son to take his place later.
Nothing is going to stop this man from using any trick or deceit he can think of to accomplish his goal. McConnel was right when he tried to get this vote to the floor on the jobs bill. Dems would have to stand up or sit down which means they were for the bill until they were against the bill. The dems need to appear united this vote would have made them do something uncomfortable by being answerable for their actions one way or the other. Reid just taking the heat and he don’t care.
Reid: The nasty Republicans forced me to destroy Senate tradition...but I did it for the American people!
smagar (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 7:37AM EST (link)That’s the MSM spin we’ll see.
Sunday morning talk show anchor, talking in a sympathetic tone Senator Reid, explain to us what forced you to take the unprecedented actions you took on Thursday night, and then, please tell us what we need to do to step back from the brink and restore civility to American politics.
Reid, talking in a saddened-but-resolved tone. Thank you, thank you. Basically, I did what I had to do…what I was FORCED to do…in order to serve the American people. When I…
Anchor: Excuse me, Senator…just so you understand…this is still a Wright-free zone here.
Reid …
“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)
Here's some other MSM memes/spins I think we'll see on this issue
smagar (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 8:09AM EST (link)Will the GOP Senators overreact to Reid’s minor procedural action, blow it out of proportion and imperil the Senate’s traditional place in the fabric of American politics? (The beauty of this spin—it forces the GOP to justify any retaliatory actions they take, thus putting the aggrieved party on the defensive.)
The Senate rules are so confusing, we’re surprised that something like this hasn’t happened sooner. The place needs to modernize! Let’s forget Thursday night’s little dustup and talk about what’s REALLY important—how the Senate needs to change for the 21st century. (I think Ezra Klein, the WaPo wunderkind who has trouble with the Constitution because it’s SO OLD, can do great things with this line of argument)
Hey…the number of homeless in America is INCREASING! (Excuse me…that’s a theme the MSM pursues when a REPUBLICAN is in the White House…my bust)
“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)
thx smagar for the info
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:12AM EST (link)I haven’t the time lately to do that much research and so depend on you guys. Thx
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Reid is having a temper tantrum..predictably
gawken (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 8:52AM EST (link)He knows that the Dems will lose their majority next year. Bob Beckel said a month ago on FOX’s “The Five” that the Senate was lost for the Dems. And in 2014, the GOP will probably end up with a filabuster-proof majority ( Just looks at the list of who’s up in 2014 for the Dems..it’s worse than 2012. Many will choose to retire rather than run)
He will NOT be the minority leader ( assuming he choose to run, and he won’t. The fact that his wife is now sadly battling breast cancer will give him a valid ( and face-saving) reason not to run for leadership. Schumer will battle Durbin for the spot.
The next Senate Dem caucus will be smaller, more hard left/liberal, and meaner. It won’t be a fun place.
Reid is NOT happy with Obama. And the realization that they managed to blow the Senate, and it will likely be years before the Dems regain the majority. I think after 2012 the Senate will have 45 Dems, and I suspect that less than half of them will still be in office the next time they control the Senate.
So this is a tantrum…the equivalent of WH staffers taking the “w” keys off the keyboards after the 2000 election.
We need republicans to stop the Senate completely now
Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 9:14AM EST (link)Now it is time for a Republican Senator to object to any and all of the “without further objections” and force a vote on every single thing until the Democrats go back and un-do this.
********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts
I don't want Reid's action undone! That's the point. This gives the GOP "cover"
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:15AM EST (link)for what desperately needs to happen in 2013. We are in a crisis in the economy. We need to be able to act to save the country. The country is more important than any senate rule or even the existence of the senate itself. ObamaCare needs to be repealed before we ever get 60 votes in the senate. By then it will be too late.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
FTR, I don't think the GOP should have needed "cover" as I have never worshiped at the altar of the fillibuster and
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:16AM EST (link)the notion that the senate is some special place in American history. It is not.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
America would be better off w/o the notion of 100 special philosopher kings
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:17AM EST (link)That’s all….smile
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
It's a bad, long-term idea, gamecock
Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:08PM EST (link)I agree it could help us in the short term though.
but it could be a long term destruction of the US.
********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts
May I quote John Maynard Keynes? "In the long-run we are all dead" plus the current crisis arose over the long
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:31PM EST (link)run! The filibuster has been a tool to forever protect liberal legislation from repeal. The benefits of the filibuster that the Framers certainly didn’t deem essential since its not in the Constitution are quite ephemeral. The main reason it exists is for Senators, esp Repubs, to have an excuse not to end big govt and buying votes with other people’s money. Given the results of the past 70, 40 and 4 years, the burden is on those that argue to keep the filibuster, not me! smile
We are bankrupt as a nation on the precipice of not having a long run! And some would fall on the sword of the filibuster as God rather than repeal socialism in 2013?
God help us!
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
yeah, tell that to my brokerage account
Doc Holliday (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:46PM EST (link)the talking heads say we will all be make money in the long run, heh.
Molon Labe!
If the filibuster is that important, we should propose a Constitutional amendment
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:49PM EST (link)to give it some teeth.
Otherwise, I hardly see why it makes sense to treat the filibuster as more sacrosanct than provisions that are actually in the US Constitution.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Your suggestion allows Dems to play by different rules. Hewitt echoes DeVine in powerful way
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 12:58PM EST (link)Powerful echo by Hugh Hewitt!
http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/28c901d6-350e-4abe-a194-e96e67887562
excerpt:
What’s done cannot be undone. The senators can tell themselves that they can walk this dog back, but they can’t. No warning, no debate, no input, just a decree. Reid is learning from his former colleague now down the street at 1600. When the GOP retakes the Senate in 2012, it will be obliged to govern in the same way for at least one Congress and perhaps far longer or risk being the sap party. What one party does, the other must do or unilaterally disarm. The life of President Romney’s or President Perry’s judicial nominees just got much easier, at least for the first two years of his presidency, as did the wholesale repeal of Obamacare by simple majority vote.
Only an incompetent would prepare for a return to the minority by trashing the power of the minority.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Tell your Republican Senators to shut down the Senate
Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 9:29AM EST (link)Here’s what I sent to both the Georgia Senators (not that either of them have the Stones to do it):
After Senator Reid’s despicable tactics last night, it is time to shut down the Senate.
Please object to any of the “without further objection” procedural motions until Reid restores the rules of the Senate.
********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts
I agree, but for the opposite rationale
JSobieski (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 9:37AM EST (link)We want Reid to clearly establish the truth—that 51 Senators can change the rules of the Senate at any time.
My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.
STOP THE MADNESS!
A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!
Now more than ever
otets Friday, October 7th at 9:29AM EST (link)we need to watch the dems for vote fraud in all upcoming elections. These marxists will do ANYTHING to stay in control. They have worked too hard and too long to get where they are today.
Our enemies in the Middle East are leftist proxies!
Should have moved to Nevada . . .
polarglen Friday, October 7th at 10:00AM EST (link). . . when before the last election cycle if only to vote against Harry Reid.
Rules? What rules? They're for suckers.
johnt Friday, October 7th at 10:11AM EST (link)You can’t keep a good totalitarian down. This incident epitomizes the truth that rules, and laws, are only as valid, as legimate as the people are willing live under them, to obey & honor them. The Soviet Union had a constitution, a lot of good it did the people.
McConnell made the point, the Senate is now not the same, the consequences of this are difficult to gauge, but in so far as they are, they are unhappy, very.
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
Yes, its stupid for the GOP to follow the 60-votes rules while the Dems
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 10:19AM EST (link)don’t. Hence, we should thank Reid for ending it and thus have the power to reverse ObamaDem legislation in 2013 before the weight of it all makes us Greece….or worse.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
McConnell's games are often embarrassing
florajo Friday, October 7th at 12:07PM EST (link)The flip side of this story is that McConnell was engaging in arcane, sketchy monkey business after an unrelated bill had received cloture. Shame on Reid, but I’m a bit embarrassed at what we were doing.
I understand that we need to stop Obama’s agenda, but it supports Obama’s narrative that we are blocking everything just to block, and stooping to lower and lower levels to accomplish that.
Plus, this particular McConnell game seems particularly petty and unessential. It’s so petty that it partially forgives Reid’s move.
But for the Dem filibuster and threats of same, massive expanded domestic oil
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, October 7th at 3:26PM EST (link)exploration would have commenced over 15 years ago and maybe we could have stopped Fannie in her tracks. The filibuster has been a HUGE net negative for America.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson