http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHjKBjM1ngw
OK, OK – we’ve all seen it. Two young ladies climbing a section of the border fence in 18 seconds. I’m sure they rushed back to campus, uploaded their video to YouTube and hurried out to make Ladies Night with their sorority sisters, confident that they had struck a blow for human rights. I’ll bet they even got an “A” from their Ethics professor on their project. I have witnessed similar naivete and less-than-critical thinking from my 22-yr old daughter who is finishing her undergraduate studies in Art, of all things, at a state school here in Texas.
Having watched this video several times, there were some things that struck me:
These were two apparently very healthy young women. They weren’t malnourished, overweight, or out-of-shape.
They weren’t accompanied by any babies, small children, or elderly people.
They weren’t carrying anything – no backpacks or bags with water, food, clothes or other provisions. I’m guessing that they also weren’t carrying any narcotics or guns.
In the video, it appeared to be a beautiful day. It wasn’t raining. It wasn’t a bone-chillingly cold January night or brutally hot August day, as can be the case here in the desert southwest.
They simply climbed up one side of the fence – they didn’t struggle to maneuver their bodies over the top of the fence and down the other side – a much more formidable task.
And while the video doesn’t document what they did prior to climbing the fence, I strongly suspect that they didn’t walk tens of miles through the desert or spend several nights sleeping on the ground, prior to reaching the border.
Obviously, my point is that the task that these young ladies are demonstrating in their video is in no way indicative of what is typical when immigrants cross our southern border illegally. This video is dangerous because it attempts to trivialize the discussion about the effectiveness of the border fence.
There are only two types of people who contend that a complete, well-constructed, well-maintained, continuously-monitored, modern fence won’t help reduce the amount of people crossing our borders illegally:
1. The people that watch this video, take it at face value, put no critical thought into the issue, and conclude that a fence is a waste of money. Useful idiots.
2. The people who know how effective a proper fence will be and who, for whatever reason, do not wish to see a reduction in illegal immigration.
At the beginning of the video, the producer states that the cost of the border fence averages $4 million per mile and poses the question: “Is it worth the expense”.
There is broad disagreement on the costs of illegal immigration. There are no agreed-upon set of assumptions and the numbers vary widely, depending upon who conducts the study and their underlying agenda.
Even so, any rational person would agree that the direct costs of illegal immigration are huge:
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Homeland Security – US Border Patrol/ICE/ATF/DEA
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Social services at the federal and state levels – Welfare/Unemployment/Food Stamps/CHIP/Medicare/Social Security/Medicaid/housing subsidies
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Education costs at the federal and state levels for illegal immigrants and their children
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Earned Income Credit for low-income tax filing illegal immigrants
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Incarceration costs for illegal immigrants
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State and local police costs associated with crimes committed by illegal immigrants
There are significant indirect costs as well:
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Medical costs for uninsured illegal immigrants born by public and private hospitals resulting in increased costs to their insured patients
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Increased automobile insurance costs to cover the large number of illegal immigrants driving uninsured motor vehicles
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Artificially lower wages for US citizens driven down by large numbers of illegal immigrants
Clearly, many illegal immigrants do pay some taxes:
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State sales taxes on purchases
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Social Security and Medicare, if they produced forged documents to obtain W-2 status
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Property taxes, if they own a home
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State income taxes
To be intellectually honest, one must deduct from the costs that illegal immigrants generate, the amount that they contribute back into the system. The challenge of accurately estimating all of these costs is daunting and anyone with an agenda can find a set of numbers to support their case. Given my agenda – that of a secure border and a re-vamped immigration policy that includes a temporary worker program – I will use the July, 2010 study by FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform)
http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921
which states that illegal immigration costs US taxpayers $113 billion annually, at the federal, state and local levels. This equates to a cost of $1,117 for each native-headed household in the United States.
Unfortunately, there are also some very real human costs associated with illegal immigration. Each year, illegal immigrants are responsible for thousands of violent crimes in the United States, including assault, rape, child molestation, manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter, and murder. The federal government does not track crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants, however deaths caused by illegal immigrants in the United States are estimated to be in the range of 2,000-4,000 annually.
Back to the fence-climbing video producer’s question: Is the $4 million per mile worth the expense?
All things considered – YES!
Victoria Coates
Daniel Horowitz
Just pulling numbers out of thin air here...
Sirithil Wednesday, February 2nd at 5:24PM EST (link)But if the fence is, say, 2000 miles long, $4 million a mile runs to a total of $8 billion.
At $113 billion a year, illegal immigration would appear to cost just over $9 billion a month. While we certainly can’t make the claim that a complete fence would choke off ALL illegal immigration, even if it reduced it by 25% the fence would be literally *profitable* in four months.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
I can solve it for $500million
Common_Cents (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 5:43PM EST (link)2000 miles
Hire 200 mexican generales
to patrol 10 miles each
Give them a budget of $2 million a year each but pay the group of generales as a pool. They keep what they don’t use.
We don’t pay them til the end of the year and we deduct $100,000 for each illegal caught crossing over their section.
Since paying them as a group, there will be plenty of peer pressure for each to keep up their own section.
Heck, even throw in another $100million a year bonus to make it an even $500 mil. for nobody crossing.
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.
I suspect we'd be outbid
Russ Martin (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 6:54PM EST (link)by the drug cartels.
“Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” George Washington
Not necessarily
aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 5:50PM EST (link)Most economic studies show that illegal immigration is, on the whole, a net boon to the economy, and that the impact that they have on government services is dubious. Certainly in states like Texas, which have tax schemes that rely on property and sales taxes, illegals are net contributors to the system (I do not believe that such is the case in CA, though). I will point out that FAIR’s study is on the outer periphery of studies on the subject (i.e., that it claims one of the higher numbers in terms of cost for such stats), and that other economists have posited positive numbers. Moreover, many of these costs are rather simple to eliminate governmentally: one can simply require proof of citizenship in order to access entitlements and state programs that act as the same. (Or — even better — kill these programs! It’s not like a parasitic citizen pockets any less of your money than a parasitic illegal.) With a few tweaks to our system, it would be extremely easy to make illegals as a group net contributors, even factoring in the insurance and medical costs.
But let’s assume that illegals are net burdens on government: you must still account for maintenance and staffing costs, which might be quite steep, for building a fence. You also have to consider the higher cost of goods for consumers, and the higher cost of labor for businesses. In addition, a pertinent question would be, which immigrants are prevented from coming? Is it the drug dealers and criminals? In large part, I’d guess no. It will most likely be migrants looking for work (i.e, net contributors) who will be dissuaded by the presence of a fence. We should have a fence for reasons of national security and sovereignty as a nation, but the economic (or even governmental accounting) arguments in favor are weak to the extreme.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
A couple points
Common_Cents (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 7:22PM EST (link)-capital outflow, they send money out of the country, less is saved and invested locally.
-nothing says the labor force wouldn’t be replaced with legal immigrants, we’d prob need to streamline the process
-still lose income/ss taxes due to fraud in withholding, sales/property taxes offset that if landlord can pass on property tax increases. I doubt anything would happen to an illegal if they didn’t pay any taxes for several years. They aren’t worth chasing for the IRS.
The biggest point for me is upholding our law and principle. Illegal immigration is illegal. Let’s do what we can to encourage and streamline legal immigration for those who want to come in the front door and contribute above board, instead of pander to those sneaking in the back door.
We must hold our own govt accountable for protecting our borders. It is just as much a national security issue as it is illegal immigration.
Our govt charges us taxes and doesn’t do their job. Just like a bar hiring a cop to card people at the front door, turning around and writing the bar a ticket for serving minors, when he was paid to prevent it in the first place.
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.
Reply
aesthete (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 8:39PM EST (link)“capital outflow, they send money out of the country, less is saved and invested locally.”
This is true, but not entirely descriptive. The illegals who primarily send money home are the ones who are here to work a spell; they have less of their family here as a result, and are less inclined to encourage family (extended or otherwise) to migrate here. The Kennedy bill and the discontinuation of our guest worker program made these workers more likely to stay, because it was difficult to “guest work”, and thus contributed to our problem, but that’s another story.
“sales/property taxes offset[...]”
Even so, there are plenty of studies out there showing that Texas’ government is a net beneficiary in terms of payment to illegals precisely because it limits benefits to illegals and has a tax regime primarily based on sales/property taxes. CA is the big loser in illegal immigration, as far as government outflows go, and that is a function of its generous benefits and tax code.
“nothing says the labor force wouldn’t be replaced with legal immigrants, we’d prob need to streamline the process”
You are right, but we would need to drastically reform the system for this to happen. Mike Pence’s plan allowed for this in large part while enforcing the borders.
“The biggest point for me is upholding our law and principle[...] We must hold our own govt accountable for protecting our borders[...]”
Agreed, and those are the grounds on which border security should be argued. The fence makes sense in that context, but not in the context of economics — but then, many legitimate functions of government are economic drags.
The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice – G.K. Chesterton
Liars on the left will tell you no fence is just as good
Common_Cents (Diary) Wednesday, February 2nd at 5:35PM EST (link)Remember the ol lefty,” if you have a 20 foot fence, they’ll just use a 21 foot ladder”?
Where do they come up with this brainless crap? Do they expect people to believe NO fence is just as good as a fence?
Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from,
behind, the Back Nine.Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.