Talking Smack Vs. Inciting Hatred and Violence


Americans talk the smack better than any other culture on the planet. I think we invented it, patented it, and elevated it to an art form that transcends all race, ideology and social class boundaries. We see it clearly when pollsters ask voters of either party about their political enemies. The question becomes what happens when all these smack-talkers forget that it can be carried too far. I think we discovered that recently when James Jay Lee took over the Discovery Channel building and held hostages.

Unlike the pitiable Environmentalist Whack-Job James Jay Lee, people don’t really speak from their hearts on these surveys. They just slag down the people they would never consider voting for. The unspoken assumption is that it’s all just a game.

Sadly, in the case of James Jay Lee, we just met someone with very strong, opinions, and no particular understanding of a lot of the political speech around him. He really didn’t know that Al Gore, a father of four children and the owner of a palatial estate himself, was talking smack to the activists about overpopulation and resource overconsumption.

A recent Daily Kos Poll suggests those Right Wingers, the ones Kos doesn’t exactly send Christmas and Hanukah Cards every year, have bizarre and irrational beliefs. Can you imagine a Daily Kos poll getting that result? Did you know that President Obama was a secret Muslim? Or that 36% of those whack-job Republicans believed he was born abroad and not really a US citizen? Show us the birf-surtifikate, President ObaMao! But that just describes our side’s sick puppies.

In 2008, James Zogby discovered that Liberals were nearly twice as likely as Conservatives to believe they should have the right to succeed from the United States. It’s as if that whole State Contract vs State Compact Thingy was all just Bush’s fault! Perhaps the Democrats didn’t lose the last American Civil War badly enough….

No, the real truth here is that Zogby’s poll result is a predictable result of Liberal politics of racist pandering. The highest pro-succession results come from Black and Hispanic respondents who coincidentally tend to hold liberal beliefs. This skews the statistic for liberals and thereby produces the “gotcha” result that got Zogby all the web hits and blog citations. Zogby reports his racial crosstab below.

Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%). Among white respondents, 17% said states or regions should have the right to peaceably secede.

This result can be looked at in two ways. Russ Douthat describes it as a symbolic belief. People claim that George W. Bush either prefers LIHOP or MIHOP; and we’re not talking about pancakes. But they perhaps claim to hold this belief to make a political statement. Douthat describes these symbolic beliefs below.

For all but the hardest-core conspiracy theorizers, they may express what Sanchez calls “symbolic beliefs.” These are “propositions you profess publicly” but would never follow through on, because they’re adopted as a kind of political and cultural statement rather than out of deep conviction.

(HT: Russ Douthat).

Now I’m willing to concede that most Americans have stayed awake through enough US History to accurately understand how successful Pickett’s Charge was. Popular Mechanics Magazine has written the definitive smack-down of all stupid 9-11 Conspiracy theories. The Hawai’i an Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Obama states that his familial religion is Islam. It also offers evidence that he was born in the US and is constitutionally eligible to misrule the United States of America for yet another two years of ignominious and arrogant enstupidation. These are all three bodies of fact that are not in serious intellectual dispute.

So why do people still say these things? For the same reason that the chicken pooped after she crossed the road: to insult the other side. Everybody alive has probably called at least one individual with an IQ greater than 130 an idiot over some point of intellectual contention. People say things that they know well are not accurate about people for whom they bear great antipathy. Most of us get that and aren’t really aligning our beliefs to statements such as “There is no need for red-hot pokers – Hell is other people!”

Yet every so often, we get a Sirhan Sirhan or a James Jay Lee. We meet somebody who just doesn’t get Al Gore’s shtick. The leading Environmentalists repeat the discredited lies of Thomas Malthus or Paul Ehrlich who predicted mass starvation by the mid 1980’s if we didn’t quit procreating. The authors of these screeds usually assume that Earth has some fixed biotic carrying capacity for human population that in no way accounts for technological advances in medicine, food production, community planning or energy.

The ideas in Erlich’s work make a certain rudimentary sense if you only examine only a minimal data set. It’s the modern scientific equivalent of the Geo-Centric Theory. You can hand-pick data and torture the numbers until they support Malthusian Doctrine; but you can’t keep making chicken salad out of such an obviously wrong conclusion. We mostly all know this, – except for James Jay Lee.

Maybe what we all learned from the Discovery Channel debacle and James Jay Lee’s condign, yet untimely death, is that really funny jokes like George W. Bush committing LIHOP, or Barack Obama having a secret Kenyan Birth Certificate, aren’t particularly funny. It’s all fun and games until someone puts an eye out, or carries one of these mistaken beliefs so far that they strap explosives on and take hostages over a stupid, dishonest and wrong-headed ideological screed.

The aforementioned Sirhan Sirhan was a dedicated true-believer as well. That doesn’t make you feel any better in the morning if your last name happens to be Kennedy. One of these days the cute political conspiracy theories that we use to trump the bad guys could get an awful lot of us killed by someone who doesn’t understand it’s not serious.

X-Posted At: THE MINORITY REPORT


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14 Comments Leave a comment

Yeah, and what about the Yahoo's planning the Koran burning?

ywhyvon1 Tuesday, September 7th at 10:18PM EST (link)

Of course, in this incidence, the yahoos mean it and the other yahoos are going to mean it too when they start turning up the bullets on our soldiers.

It seems to me, maybe someone has already tried, but it seems to me that other religious leaders in the area of the scheduled Koran burning should try really hard to talk some sense into the members of this “cult”. Some people shouldn’t be allowed to carry scissors.

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

I don't know what to think about this.

avgjo (Diary) Tuesday, September 7th at 11:40PM EST (link)

They have the freedom to burn the Korans, obviously. And obviously, as the ground zero mosque is teaching us, just because you have the freedom, doesn’t mean you should. But where do we draw the line?

Many Muslims and Muslim apologists say that our opposition to the GZM is going to sour relations b/t us and the Muslims. Will it lead to increased violence? And if so, should we stop our opposition to it?

I’m probably gonna get flamed for this, but it is a legit question that had to be asked.

Any thoughts?

Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.

The mosque at Ground Zero, is very easy for me

ywhyvon1 Tuesday, September 7th at 11:58PM EST (link)

They have a right, but they shouldn’t. And the argument that some make that our opposition to the mosque will incite more violence….Doesn’t matter what we do, they intend to incite more violence and it’s not like we have an effective PR firm in the middle east to tell our side of the story about anything. If not the mosque “controversy”, the terrorist elite would fabricate something else to use as progoganda.

In regards to the Koran burning, Just a bad idea that serves no purpose other than to give these kooks 15 minutes of fame. This ignorant church leader has delusions of granduer – just looking for attention but just as people have a right to burn our flag, i don’t beleive there is a law against Koran Burning.

What upsets me the most about the Koran situation is that it is getting any airtime and attention from media. Some bad behavior just needs to be ingnored but now that a fuss has been made, I will say again, someone really needs to have a talk with those folks. It probably won’t do any good and I’m sure the attention in their direction is only making them more determined to do it but you know: Some people just ain’t right in the head.

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

It's not the GZ mosque that I have a question about.

avgjo (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 12:28AM EST (link)

It’s the Koran burning. I personally am not involved in it one way or the other, but I am concerned about this man being silenced in deference to radical Muslims. As you said, those nutjobs will do whatever they want, and find any reason to be violent. They have already ‘turned their bullets’ on our soldiers.

I am concerned that a bad pattern is emerging. First, we gave up all kinds of civil liberties in travel (ya know, naked scans at the airport that sorta thing) for EVERYONE, rather than offend the Muslims.

Rather than target terror investigations specifically at Mosques and Islamic communities, and offend the Muslims, we subject the entire populace to the Patriot Act and all the problems there.

Our media will hardly speak of ‘honor killings’ or other attempts to bring shariah to the US, we saw many of them not publish the Mohammed cartoon, because they don’t want to offend the Muslims.

And now, we see government putting pressure on a Pastor, trying to silence him, so we don’t offend the Muslims. I do believe that General Petraeus has a genuine concern for his men. As far as I am concerned, his motives are beyond reproach. But something doesn’t feel right about letting the fear of reprisals of these jerks shut people in our country up. It seems that a combination of genuine PC and fear of Islamic thuggery seems to be driving this. And neither is a good reason for hindering the free exercise of our natural rights.

As to the pastor’s motivation and mental status: I am not God, so I cannot read his heart. Perhaps he thinks its time to show these jerks we won’t be intimidated. Maybe it’s an effort to show his resistance to the political correctness towards Islam that could get us killed. I am willing to think he might be doing it for other reasons than mere attention. As far as his mental state, I am not a psychiatrist, and I have not seen anything in the way of behaviour to warrant even an amateur opinion.

Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.

You are correct, I don't know if the pastor is mentally unstable or not

ywhyvon1 Wednesday, September 8th at 1:25AM EST (link)

I was talking smack:) But I will say, in my amateur opinion, that somebody is not thinking rationally when they decide to partake in an action that serves no other purpose than to figuratively poke a stick in somebody’s eye just for the sake of figuratively poking a stick in somebody’s eye-Publicly. .

Publicly, which brings us to my theory the guy is looking for attention. If not looking for publicity, why not just quietly, within the congregation, burn a few Korans? I always thought when you went public with something, you wanted the public to know-publicity. They want everyone to know they are figuratively poking a stick in the other guys eye. Yeah, Dove World Outreach
Of course, if Jesus directly filled his heart with the idea-Then by all means, it really should be done. Possible, but not very probable.

In my humble opinion, the good pastor Jones’ burning of the Koran is not going make the MSM et al shine a light on honor killings , nor is it going to open a dialoque between Christianity and Islam.

I never suggested, nor have I seen anywhere yet, that the gov’t was putting pressure on the church. I did see where Petraeus “condemned” the proposed action. I suggested that people within the pastor’s community perhaps try to pursuade him to reconsider this bad idea. I went on to say that the pastor would not be deterred because he was gaining too much attention ( see 2nd paragraph above).

Furthermore, I did say that he has the right to burn as many Korans as he sees fit. I left unsaid-let the chips fall where they will.

Finally, I do agree with you on one thing You are not God. Thanks for clearing that up for me and I’ll take your word for it that you are not a psychiarist. Condescending and self righteous is more amateur humble opinion I would describe you.

Just talking smack:)

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

There are times when a stick in the eye is a rational response

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 1:42AM EST (link)

Just don’t think this is one of them.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

 

I'm sorry ywhyvon, sorry that you misread/mis-took what I wrote...

avgjo (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 5:25AM EST (link)

You imply that I attributed the following to you:

1. That the government was putting pressure on him. I made the assertion that ‘government’, not ‘the government’ (as in the Feds) was putting pressure on him. And his local government is. But I didn’t attribute this to you; re-read my post.

2. Anything about Gen. Petraeus. Again, I brought that up. Didn’t claim you did. Again, re-read…

3. That you denied him the right to do so. Again, I never claimed that.

I knew afterI posted my response, that ‘an amateur opinion’ without the modifier ‘from me’ or better yet, ‘my’, it might come across wrong. But I thought the general tenor of the rest of the post would clarify this, so I didn’t correct it. Sorry, that comment was directed at me, not you; I don’t presume to know you or anything about you professionally, so I wouldn’t direct that at you.

So the ‘condescending’ I can sorta see from that. But ‘self-righteous’? Please. Where?

As far as ‘clearing that up for’ you, it is an old, tried-and-true rhetorical device to state the obvious as a marker for the area of discussion that you are about to start (q.v. countless books, lectures, arguments, etc.). Don’t you have anything more substantive squabbles with what I said than that? Maybe I came across as condescending and self-righteous (?); with this, you came across frankly as downright petty.

Were I inclined to do the same, I could point out that ‘dialog(ue)’ is not spelled ‘dialoque’. But I take it as a given that you mistyped, not misspelled. As you should have taken it as a given that I know that you know I am not God.

See how silly this can get?

Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.

 
 
 

While I don't agree with it, I think the Koran burning

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 1:41AM EST (link)

is intended to support the following points:

1. Just because you have the legal right to do something doesn’t mean that you should do it.

2. If you use your legal rights to insult us, we will use our legal rights to insult you.

Now, I don’t find this to be particularly Christian logic, it is much more eye for an eye stuff. While there is no law against Koran burning, neither is there a law against flag burning, and lets face it, the threats and public pressure to not burn the Koran as promised are probably far greater than mere legal sanction would be.

THis is a bad PR move, in the same way that the GZM is a bad PR move. But I believe it very much is eye for an eye stuff. Was this scheduled before the whole GZM issue came up? I doubt it.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

JSobieski- Bad PR by Muslim Builders or opponents

ywhyvon1 Wednesday, September 8th at 1:53AM EST (link)

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

Its a bad move by Muslims, whether you perceive

JSobieski (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 2:06AM EST (link)

them to act in good faith or bad faith.

Good faith–its really upsetting, which means to proceed is a mistake since the idea was “building bridges”

Bad faith—people are talking far more openly about Islam that previously. If the plan was stealth jihad under cover of PC-ness, the GZM was mistakd

Thus, the burning of the Koran is a bad PR move intended to make a point with respect to the building of the GZM, which was also a bad PR move.

Opposing the GZM is NOT a bad PR move, it is necessary in my view.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

I thought so, I just wasn't reading clearly.

ywhyvon1 Wednesday, September 8th at 2:11AM EST (link)

I agree with you wholeheartedly

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

 
 
 
 
 
 

This Is Stupid, Selfish et al....

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Wednesday, September 8th at 8:52AM EST (link)

1) This is stupid. Expect several incidents of domestic terrorism. This will become justification for any idiot Muslim who feels tempted to bomb something in the US. “They burned our Koran, we now have a religious duty to kill infidels.”

2) This is self-defeating. Every time we remind the idiots who secretly cheer for the In-Your-Kfucing-End-Zone Mosque about what a IslamoNazi their Mullah is, they’ll just throw Reverand Billa-Bob McGuillacutty and his flaming Korans right back in our faces. Thanks for the own-goal you cheesedick!

3) This is selfish. Nobody in the hierarchy of any major Christian Sect wants this pissing tool to burn Korans. He is a trolladytic moron doing this as a publicity stunt. Think of it as “Inciting Religious Terorism: The Reality Show.”

” I side impenitently with the human race against the modern reformer.” – C.S. Lewis

55555 an 5

ywhyvon1 Wednesday, September 8th at 9:22AM EST (link)

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown

 
 
 

JSobieski, Do you mean the GZM is a bad move by Muslims who want to build it or a bad move by the opponents?

ywhyvon1 Wednesday, September 8th at 1:52AM EST (link)

Socialist with fork looking for Socialist with pork pie-unknown