That way, when I’m out of money from having my Constitutional Rights violated by teh gubmint in being forced to purchase something in order to remain a citizen in good legal standing, I’ll at least have some paper to burn so I can heat the condo to be comfortable from all that ‘global warming; – it’s 42 degrees here and I’m freezing !

Seriously though, I did print it all so I can read through the mass of info without having to stare at the laptop.

This legislation has got to be stopped….. If for no other reason, than in passing this bill, Congress will be helping to render itself totally irrelevant in a short period of time.

Thanks for all the data RQ !

but I’d recommend this for RSU, as well.

Obamacare has red laser dots all over it. Weapons Free!

You should add the RedState University tag to it, to preserve it in Pengiun2′s project.

I’ll go ahead and tag it.

But it takes 67 votes to change Senate rules.

Snowe’s vote would only be useful to Senate Democrats if they could convince her (or other wayward Republicans) to agree to wave the Byrd Rule regarding specific points of order.

An in depth look at Reconciliation, its History and Procedures…

The Budget Reconciliation Process: House and Senate Procedures

” Imagine how exhausted those Senators will be in the unlikely event that Pelosi is able to get a bill passed in the House. ”

How can she POSSIBLY get the 218 votes for the Senate bill *as is*, which is a REQUIREMENT for going to the next step, when Stupak said point blank “NO WAY”.

And Stupak or anyone who thinks they can fix abortion in reconciliation would be a fool – it is NOT a budget issue.

The Dems painted themselves into a corner over abortion. Obamacare is hoisted on the taxpayer-funded abortion petard.

This is a Dead Bill Walking.

I keep reading things that hint at the fact that something passed under reconciliation is only good for 5 years, but I haven’t been able to find any moe detail than this.

Does anyone know if this is true and how it would apply to Obamacare? For instance, if they passed the Senate bill and amended it via reconciliation, would everything revert to the original senate language if the reconciliation amendments weren’t renewed?

I recall when reconciliation was mentioned back in the hot summer of our discontent, during Town Hall rush week, it was mentioned that the GOP could offers amendments until Nancy turned pretty. Then it suddenly died away. Maybe Mitch and Harry had talked about it over dinner.

I had almost forgotten, so thanks.

The subtext (s) is that if it dies, the House wants to be in the Senate and vice versa. Another subtext is that Nancy believes, juts the opposite of angry citizens, that if congressmen realize they’re going to lose their jobs anyway (and that is now likely) they’ll go ahead and throw themselves on the sword of their true beliefs. She’s betting that down deep, they are all Lefties. I’m betting that down deep they’re not, or, alternately, not only will we vote them out of office, but hunt them down like dogs. Fear is a great inhibitor. And a final subtext is Mitch McConnell. Does he have the sand? Harry’s betting he doesn’t.

But I must differ with your reference to the CBO as impeccable.

The very idea that you can judge the impact of a bill like this 50 years down the road is insane.

I have written on this topic, one serious, another satirical…choose your poison.

http://www.redstate.com/mikerazar/2009/10/28/the-fools-gold-standard-of-economic-projections/

http://www.redstate.com/mikerazar/2009/10/28/a-brilliant-idea-courtesy-of-the-cbo/

When we retake both houses, how are we ever going to overcome the tactics we are currently using? Will the public eventually become so dissatisfied with the Democrats if they pulled this that’d we’d have a conservative super majority in due time? I’m all for doing everything within our power to prevent this bill from passing, but I wonder what good we’ll be able to do now that we’ve shown how strong minority power can be.

I want to see a fair tax in my lifetime, but I can’t see 60 senators agreeing on such an incredible overhaul of the tax system.

This and other excellent analyses of reconciliation have shown what an impossible lift it will be to pass, but the one thing that scares the bejeezus out of me is the new revelation that the VP can overrule the parliamentarian.

What I see happening is the R’s driving stake after stake into the heart of the bill with legitimate objections, but then Biden brazenly overruling the parliamentarian over and over again

I just see the risk that the VP can basically force through anything he wants if he is that bold/unethical/stupid

Obviously, this destroys any comity in the Senate for the next generation, and paybacks will be hell, but I do not put it above the Dims desperation to pull this

I hope I’m wrong here, if anyone can enlighten me

If the House passes the Senate bill, then what difference does it make if the senate follows up with changes that will make no difference whatsoever?

If, on the other hand, the house demands the senate act first, there will be an issue. Don’t count on rules to be followed. Given those responsible for enforcing the rules, there are no rules. In that case, Republicans would be justified to simply walk out on the job and refuse to even appear in Washington for the rest of the session. Not only do I not expect that, but I don’t expect them to pull any tricks the way Democrats do. By their nature, Republicans in the Senate lack the passion, the motivation, and the will to do ANYTHING beyond a no vote; and they are just too hell-bent on being “respectful.”

Either way, I expect them to pass the Senate bill; and I don’t see any future remedy other than our banding together in refusing to buy anything called “health insurance” or pay the penalties.

I think this is a plausible scenario. From I can tell, there is little doubt that there can be no reconciliation until the House has passed the Senate version. I believe (hope) reconciliation would cause an all-out war on the Senate floor, including the offering of an untold number of amendments, many of which would be hard for the Dems to vote against. Senators like my Senator, Tom Coburn (still feels good to say that), will fight this tooth and nail.

What happens if either the Senate cannot pass anything via reconciliation or the House can’t stomach further changes made in the Senate. Under that scenario, won’t the current Senate bill (passed by both houses) go to President Obama and become law (unless he vetoes it).

This may be a good reason for waivering House Dems to vote no on the Senate bill. They are being promised it will be “fixed” in the Senate. But if it’s not, we will all have to live with it as is (including abortion funding, etc.).

I haven’t heard anyone discuss this scenario. Is this analysis correct?

Great information in your post. I think it sounds like they will resort to reconciliation, so we need all the information we can get. If they would have actually included the GOP’s ideas in this bill it might be a different story. But they want this as radical as possible.

The “fix” legislation happens first. It will be in substance, an amendment to the Senate bill. After the “fix” is passed by both houses (under reconcilliation rules in the Senate) it is sent to the President. THEN, the House passes the Senate bill, sending that to the President. The President signs the Senate bill first. Then he signs the “fix” bill.

I realize that this is hare-brained and problematic. However, this is the way it was explained to me. I am not aware of any precedent for legislation being passed that alters “law” not yet signed by the President. I am also not aware of how this “process” is technically illegal.