A couple of days ago (Thurs) I had a nice conversation with a family member. This is an unusual event as while we do converse, it’s mostly about family things and my son and you know, nothing of any importance. But he called me looking for a specific opinion on politics.
He is a VERY smart man. He is a well known and powerful big law managing partner. And he is a big liberal. Not an average liberal but one with serious connections. He threw an Obama Party during the convention. From “that side” of my family my only conclusion is that I must be adopted.
His question was one of simplicity; if Obama is so smart, so able to bring a consensus among Americans to elect him, why is he screwing over America with his socialist ideals?
This gave me pause. Not because I have some great political/social insight, heck my teaspoon of knowledge is no comparison to the Olympic size pool of knowledge that makes up the RS Directors. And really, his brain power is amazing to the point that he would make Pejmin appear just normal. No, what I see is someone who was duped into believing the emotional appeal of Hope & Change® and that politics can be what it is not.
My answer was as simple as I could muster;
Obama is a liberal, or even more accurately a socialist with adequate past performance to have determined what type of policies and directions he would impart upon the nation.
Add into the mix the ability to get pretty much anything through congress and willingness to convey a message of income redistribution by punishing success. And the result will be a protracted economic recovery, limited if even existent investment into business and the market and a general hunkering down among the people that create wealth. After all, why would you want to do anything that would increase your wealth if the confiscation of it (which he objected to the use of that term) meant that your work was punished.
At this point we discussed the potential of Obama and Co; you know, the platitudes of it takes time, Bush policies are causing all this etc. And then things got weird. He posed the question: Because people are hurting so bad from job loss, isn’t it the governments responsibility to restore those jobs?
With further clarification, I was literally beside myself. This brilliant man had conceded that jobs, in general were the result of government direction and were the “property” of government. This was a great but sad nite for me as this successful person had presented an ideological position ignorant at how society worked.
Steve Maley
KnightsofMalta
cogitations
Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 2:37AM EST (link)Q1: if Obama is so smart, so able to bring a consensus among Americans to elect him, why is he screwing over America with his socialist ideals?
A1: Do you know the story of the frog and the scorpion? Obama is a socialist. He was the child of socialists, raised by socialists, preached to by a socialist, learned his profession from a socialist, and was funded by socialists in the unions and by George Soros, socialist. He is socialist to his core. He actually believes that government should be in control of not just health care and banking, but manufacturing and everything else too. And he believes that government should have a monopoly on the use of force, and that means taking guns away from everyone. Why did the scorpion sting the frog to death, knowing that he himself would drown soon after? Because he is a scorpion and it is his nature.
Q2: Because people are hurting so bad from job loss, isn’t it the governments responsibility to restore those jobs?
A2: Good idea. Because people skin their knees and it hurts, it is government’s responsibility to give them bandaids. Because people like skittles, it is government’s responsibility to give them skittles.
The pain people have is not government’s responsibility, it is the responsibility of the unemployed to find something to do. It is the desire of companies to hire employees at a certain price to do certain work. They would hire if something were not stopping them. So what is stopping them? What is stepping on their neck and shouting “no”? It is the responsibility of the government to stop stepping on the neck of companies that would like to employ people and let them use their own money the way they want to use it to make a profit and stay in business. Business taxes increase unemployment and decrease the amount collected from personal taxes. They do not produce net positive tax revenue. They are useless by any standard. Get rid of them.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
The Scorpion and the Frog...
MetaCosm (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 10:33PM EST (link)Related Story (lifted from: http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html)
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn’t see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.
Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.
“Hellooo Mr. Frog!” called the scorpion across the water, “Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?”
“Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?” asked the frog hesitantly.
“Because,” the scorpion replied, “If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!”
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. “What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!”
“This is true,” agreed the scorpion, “But then I wouldn’t be able to get to the other side of the river!”
“Alright then…how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?” said the frog.
“Ahh…,” crooned the scorpion, “Because you see, once you’ve taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!”
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog’s back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog’s soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog’s back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
“You fool!” croaked the frog, “Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?”
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog’s back.
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
~ MetaCosm
I love that story
Beaglescout (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 12:53AM EST (link)and I love that it is totally not politically correct. Socialists must hate it!
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
I'm familiar with a different punchline
civil truth (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 12:41PM EST (link)…said the scorpion, “Welcome to the Middle East”.
The greatest evil…is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern. -C.S. Lewis
http://www.gmsplace.com/
Either I'm confused, or your relative is...
randy streu (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 6:48AM EST (link)The first question was, in essence, why is Obama pushing socialism on the US — and the assumption behind the question appears to be that “socialism” is a bad thing. But then his second question was, in essence, “but isn’t socialism a GOOD thing?”
This actually seems to be a great example of the modern lib: they have absolutely NO idea exactly what it is that they stand for.
Blogging also at
SLC Republitarian
The Minority Report
Feeling party vs. Thinking party
itrytobenice (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 10:34AM EST (link)The libs always vote with their feelings. Some of them have some Thoughts periodically that flare up and point out to their Feelings that ‘this’ just isn’t working.
That’s when they have to call their Thinking Party relatives to help them out.
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
I get this all the time...
Amy Miller (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 11:03AM EST (link)I have a lot of “modern lib” friends (just got out of college a bit ago…so big heaping surprise) who try to engage me in debate by asking question #1….then pull the bait and switch. It takes about 10 minutes for the situation to go from “reasonable debate” to “somebody please save me from this rabid harpy”.
It’s a crappy thing to say…but I think that with most liberals, this is their nature. Not only do they have no idea what they stand for, but in order to hide this fact, they try to distract from the point at hand by questioning the accepted fundamental concepts from the original conversation.
“I’m a conservative, I’m a textualist, I’m an originalist, but I’m not a nut.”
~Scalia, J.
What liberals stand for
Next93 (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 12:38PM EST (link)Actually, this is more along the lines of what Liberals beleive
1) There is no such thing as deserved wealth. Anyone who is rich either stole it or inherited it. Government therefore has a responsibility to ensure that this wealth is taken away in the interest of fairness. This is why we need “progressive” income taxes. This rule does not apply to senators from Massachusetts, since there’s apparently no link between income and wealth in that state.
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2) There is no such thing as deserved poverty. Poor people are poor because there is some sort of clandestine system in place that ensures that the wealthy stay wealthy, and not due to any life-decisions they might have made. This cabal runs all politics outside the Democratic party (and the Unions). Only by turning over all decision-making authority to the Democratic party can we achieve anything like “justice”.
3) Profit is fundamentally immoral, because it’s based on the principal of the job creator paying the worker less than the value of his/her work and pocketing the difference. Anyone who makes a profit can only be assumed to be working in his/her own best interest. This immorality taints all things in the private sector.
4) Religion is fundamentally undemocratic, because it attempts to impose rules on individuals, based solely on “superstition”. All religions have an implicit goal of imposing of their primitive rules on other people (Islam being the only exception). The only acceptable religions are the new age superstitions, which allow people to make up the rules as they go.
5) All moral authority therefore resides in the government, through the agency of unelected bureaucrats who, fortunately, know more than you and therefore can be trusted to make all decisions in your best interest. These government bureaucrats are the only ones who can be counted on to not be working in their own best interest. This rule does not apply if there is a Republican in the white house. The highest form of moral authority is the UN, which has NO elected officials and is therefore is clearly above operating in its own best interest.
6) There can be no freedom without health and safety. Anything that might cause the most minute health or safety hazard must therefore be regulated and controlled by people we can be assured aren’t operating in their own best interests (i.e., government bureaucrats). Even those things that don’t actually cause physical harm must be controlled, as they might, in the future, be found to cause health or safety problems, or could cause mental or emotional distress. The logical conclusion is that the only way we can be free is by turning over all decision making authority to the government.
7) If the planet isn’t healthy, none of us are free. Therefore anything that might effect the planet or the climate (like exhaling) must be regulated by the government is any of us are to be free.
9) No individual has the right to the work of another human being. However, everyone has the right to health care, and the poor have a right to housing, food stamps, child care, and an education. That’s because those things are provided by the government and not by people.
Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.
Government jobs
Kyle-MI (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 9:49AM EST (link)The problem with government providing jobs is that it doesn’t respond to the needs of the people. It does not balance what the people need as products with what they need as a job. For example, if the government was controlling jobs at the time when we were switching from the horse and buggy to the car, then they would look at the buggy whip industry and say we have to preserve these jobs whether people want buggy whips or not. But what people really needed was to change jobs from buggy whips to automobile manufacturing.
The current crises is not quite as clear. I think one thing that is contributing to the poor economy is overproduction of homes (and cars and probably some other things as well). We have made too many large homes that are much more expensive than people should have been able to afford. We need to make fewer homes and employ fewer people for making those homes. The new unemployed home builders need to switch jobs to things that are in demand. While this is all sorting itself out, we will see (hopefully temporarily) higher unemployment. There will also be some secondary unemployment because the primarily unemployed will have to cut back on spending.
The problem is we have driven manufacturing and agriculture jobs out
Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 4:09PM EST (link)Those are the jobs that really create wealth. You can’t have manufacturing performed in Bangalore and skim the profits off to be repatriated to the US because then a local competitor from Bangalore will hire your trainees, cut your margin, and eat your lunch. We have hollowed out our economy. We outsource every wealth creating job and keep the overhead jobs here. That is a recipe for economic stagnation and bad investments like paying too much for houses, oil, stocks, etc.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
and mining jobs too
Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 4:11PM EST (link)oops
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
Re: government doesn't respond to the needs...
The_Gadfly (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 4:23PM EST (link)It’s actually a bit bigger than that. It isn’t simply that government doesn’t respond to the needs of the people the same way a free market does, it is that government can’t respond to people’s needs the way a free market done. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand all the technical parts of the proof, but Hayek demonstrated in his work that government can never begin to collect sufficient data for a committee to analyze to make decisions that grant the same degree of choice and precision of want/need fulfillment that the free market does. You literally need to have the free market through it’s pricing mechanism determining how and what to produce. You can interfere with that mechanism, but to whatever extent you interfere with the mechanism, you also interfere with market efficiency.
We are in the current situation precisely because the government interfered with the pricing mechanisms of the housing and credit markets. More government interference will not clear them.
So much for your earlier impression:
itrytobenice (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 10:27AM EST (link)Obviously not. I mean, maybe parts of his brain work and work well. But more like the Rainman. As far as I’m concerned, real brainpower entails the capacity to use it in practical ways.
In other words, if you are unable to determine, after all these years with all these examples, that socialism is not a recipe for a successful economy, you are not smart regardless of whether or not you are able to count toothpicks when they fall on the ground.
And if you were not able to determine that Obama trends more toward socialism than toward capitalism, you are not smart regardless of whether or not you can count cards in Blackjack.
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
Which is why it is post worthy...
phxg (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 10:32AM EST (link)I am still in a state of confusion over this. it’s depressing that someone who is intelligent would be so duped by the hope and change.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
It does make you wonder.
itrytobenice (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 10:54AM EST (link)I’m no rocket scientist, but it just doesn’t seem to take much knowledge of human nature to figure out whether or not capitalism or socialism (AKA “progressive” policies) work.
I really just can’t understand why there are real debates over this. It seems like everyone capable of talking without drooling would be on our side.
And to tell you the truth, it is the same way with me on the abortion debate. One time I was forced to explain to my little girl what an abortion was, and I tried to make it as non-threatening as possible because I really didn’t want to horrify her. I said, “Some people believe that when a woman is pregnant and doesn’t want to have a baby, it’s OK to take it out of her even though that means the baby is going to die.”
She looked at me with horror. Like she couldn’t believe this was possible and I must be mistaken. Then she said, “How can anyone be so evil?” I just explained to her that the devil tricks people into thinking that bad things are not bad so that he can bring destruction into their lives.
But her initial reaction was just plain, simple common sense. Everything else that adults come up with is simply justification for believing what they want to be true, even when a child can see that it is not.
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
Maybe GC can clear up some confusion - Jan 18 LINK
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 2:13PM EST (link)http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2009/01/18/if-obama-is-so-smart-then-why-is-he-still-a-liberal-democrat/
more later
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I'm not too utterly confused..
phxg (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 7:08PM EST (link)Beyond the why would someone in his economic/brainpower bracket fall for the emotional ploy that was Obama.
But then again he has always been a liberal, has always been a lawyer (which makes him pre-disposed to be a liberal) but most importantly, has never, ever had to “make payroll” or put money on the line in an entrepreneurial manner.
Ironically, most lawyers I deal with, and there are quite a few, who are in private practice, usually their own firm are conservative. And those who are in big law, government or other “employee” level tend almost exclusively to the liberal side.
Even more ironic almost everyone I know at my other job (Fire Dept) are right to far right of center. But the run of the mill admin and support people are all hard core leftys.
All I know for sure is that Obama is gonna really screw things up for a time long after I am worm food. And it is annoying that people are so open and willing to give up their personal control to the government nanny.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
I believe the answer to this question can be found in an RPG
The_Gadfly (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 4:38PM EST (link)Dungeons and Dragons to be specific. Character creation has a stat for Intelligence and a stat for Wisdom. Intelligence is the sort of thing that lets you logically design a wagon, or assemble a legal case. Wisdom is the ability to recognize that you ought not be able assemble a legal case against the designer of wagon who included a brake when the person using the wagon was injured because he didn’t use the brake.
And these days we seem to have a plethora of intelligent but unwise lawyers.
Ahhh, Role Playing Game
Lammo (Diary) Monday, March 16th at 4:53PM EST (link)not Rocket Propelled Grenade.
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
Didn't Rush read a study...
Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 9:46AM EST (link)That the “smarter” you were, the more hipnotic the words of Obama were?
1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.
Didn't Rush read a study...
Wing Zero (Diary) Thursday, March 19th at 9:46AM EST (link)That the “smarter” you were, the more hipnotic the words of Obama were?
1-21-09 – We are so screwed… Wait… maybe not just yet.
False Dichotomy
lukematthews (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 10:50AM EST (link)Because people are hurting so bad from job loss, isn’t it the governments responsibility to restore those jobs?
Unfortunately, the liberal belief system includes a scary ability to create a false dichotomy out of everything. They believe either the government creates jobs or nothing with create jobs. They are unable to break out of the closed thinking of binary questions.
For example, they came up with this ridiculous loaded question, “Do you hope Obama will succeed? This is a truly stupid question. First, does my hope either way help him succeed or fail? Of course not. Second, if I answer ‘yes’ I am showing I support his foolish policies. If I answer ‘no’ then I’m a mean-spirited racist who hopes America fails. Either way, you cannot win answering a question that does nothing useful in the first place.
Thanks for the post
Luke
Because Law is a profession that can insulate you
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 11:34AM EST (link)from real life. First, my experience with younger lawyers is that they’re “trade school” graduates; they know a lot about law and legal practice and very little about anything else. Typical currulum is the core curriculum for two years as an undergraduate and then they pile on all the undergraduate law courses to give them some advantage in law school. Consequently, in literature, history, science and all that cultural stuff, they have at most a semester or two past a high school education. And I hope I don’t need to remind anyone of how little you can know and get out of HS and into and through college. Older lawyers might have a better general education but if they stayed in the cloistered life that the law allows, they can pretty much avoid learning anything more. Only the criminal law forces one to confront much in the way of real life and lots who go into criminal law bring such a hatred for authority with them, that they manage to avoid ever really learning that the cops and the government are usually right.
I found that the younger ones had little persuasive writing ability; they could prove but not persuade. Most of what they wrote would be logically correct but deadly dull. Likewise, opening and closing statements ranged from terrible to merely dry and boring. And you really couldn’t teach them to do anything differently because they lacked the foundational learning.
But, you can be very successful if you give good brief and can write a memo that makes a partner look good. You come out of an echo chamber in college, into another echo chamber in law school, and into another echo chamber at a firm or in government. Everyone around you in each of those endeavors has pretty much the same background and experience and thinks pretty much the same way about everything.
Since you can be fairly successful as long as you stay in that box, you never have any real world experience. This accounts for a lot of the dichotomy in Boomer thinking. If you went straight from college into academia, government, or certain professions, particularly law in the non-profits and interest groups, you can have the same stupid ideas you had smoking dope in a college dorm in 1969. The rest of us got mugged by reality in the ’70s and got over our “education.”
So, it really doesn’t surprise me that a lawyer with a large firm would have little connection to the realities of the every day world.
In Vino Veritas
Ouch. I resemble that remark.
Lammo (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 12:18PM EST (link)But serially, I have seen exactly what you describe in several of my colleagues and peers. One unfortunate result of lack of real world exposure is that the person so situated never learns the difference between what they can do as a lawyer and what they should do. One particular example was a former supervisor who insisted that I charge a case in order to force the defendant to “roll over” on her son (the mother had an airtight alibi). I refused and so did the next deputy it was assigned to. Sadly, that former supervisor is now a Superior Court Judge – - talk about insulated. Oh well.
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
That stuff has become the rule, not the exception.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 12:30PM EST (link)I’m absolutely convinced that the reason they brought those chickens@#t charges against Sen. Stevens and put it before a DC jury that would convict him just because he was a white Repubican was they thought he’d either roll and give them something on his son, Ben, or Ben would give something up to keep the old man out of jail.
Just like we’re seeing with the criminalization of getting paid what you’re worth, runaway holdover Democrats who acted as stay behind Democrat agents in the GWB administration have made being a Republican politician a crime. As I’ve tried to warn in other writings, the Red states should be bracing for a federal invasion just as soon as The One gets his second level management in place.
In Vino Veritas
Funny how you connect lack of
phxg (Diary) Wednesday, March 18th at 2:48AM EST (link)daily reality to the stepping from one environment of sameness to the next.
This person is my uncle and he is 64 and from what I have been told he literally never worked at any job till he clerked right out of law school. And not just any clerkship but for a federal appellate court. And then right into big law for 40 years.
Disconnect is alive and well in those folks.
If anything can come of this is that he now reads redstate and has said, just today (tues) that it’s criminal what Obama is doing to AIG over the bonuses. It’s a start.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. –Aristotle
Read Atlas Shrugged
GregInFla (Diary) Tuesday, March 17th at 11:32PM EST (link)If you want good conversations with liberals. The book is a real treat (1/3 through it and I scream at the book regularly).
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.
You don't just get to read Atlas Shrugged.
Alitheia (Diary) Wednesday, March 18th at 12:01AM EST (link)To read Ayn Rand you should read her books chronologically, to see her thought process evolve.
It’s not a rule, but it really helps to understand John Galt’s final speech.
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never be forced to live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
But the question is..
GregInFla (Diary) Wednesday, March 18th at 8:20AM EST (link)Who is John Galt? :^)
I have not read Fountainhead (a friend lent me the movie, but I will wait to watch it). Still, I can say that the situation portrayed in Atlas Shrugged is oh-so-possible given the actions occurring today.
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Think about it.
– The sign outside the courthouse said no signs allowed. So I took it down.
– Atlas Shrugged is now on the non-fiction aisle at Amazon.
Read We The Living to see where her ideas come from. nt
Alitheia (Diary) Wednesday, March 18th at 10:23AM EST (link)I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never be forced to live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
You have to create largess..
UpLateAgain (Diary) Wednesday, March 18th at 10:27PM EST (link)before you can distribute it.
____________________________________________
“God has always been hard on the poor” Jean-Paul Marat
You never never never actually need a gun, until you need a gun, and then nothing else will do.