Barack Obama wants to allow people to withdraw money from their 401(k) accounts without penalty. Free Exchange details why this is a bad idea:
. . . Mr Obama will allow Americans to withdraw 15% of their retirement accounts, up to $10,000, during 2008 and 2009. Allowing withdrawals completely undermines the purpose of these accounts–to provide income for retirement.
This might sound small, but it’s not a trivial share of most retirement accounts. According to the 2004 Survey of Consumer Finances, the median 401(k) balance was just $8,500. Suppose a 401(k) participant with an account this size and thirty years away from retirement withdraws 15% during each of the next two years. If equities perform in the future as they have in the past (over the long-term, please), this might leave the participant more than $20,000 poorer in retirement. That could make an appreciable difference to his standard of living.
And this example might understate the loss. Encouraging people to take money out of the market now means they realise losses after a large market decline, and it prevents them from profiting off the gains accruing during recovery (which is exactly why I was pleased to see that Mr Obama supports allowing seniors to delay withdrawals from their accounts). For many Americans, a retirement account is their only exposure to equities. Encouraging them to take money out now does them a great disservice.
Further, the looming entitlement crisis will likely mean that state retirement benefits must be cut (in the absence of a large tax increase). Allowing retirement account withdrawals ultimately puts the onus on the government to provide for the income shortfall people might face in retirement–at the expense of future taxpayers.
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Well
Bricker Tuesday, October 14th at 11:46PM EST (link)Given the state of the economy, some may find it difficult to make ends meet. It seem silly to prohibit them from withdrawing a fraction of their retirement accounts if they have trouble paying their mortgage or the rent.
If they are unable to do this, some Americans would have no choice but to sell or re-finance their homes, or perhaps secure high-interest loans. These are the factors which caused our recession in the first place.
My first thought
Lammo (Diary) Tuesday, October 14th at 11:55PM EST (link)when I heard about this was that this was a plan to set people up to become dependent on Big Government to take care of them (not that I see black helicopters or anything) but even if that isn’t the aim it’s clearly a bad idea. Most of us don’t put away enough as it is – - we shouldn’t be allowed to deplete our retirement accounts just because we feel like it. Maybe some sort of hardship loan system would be viable based on clear need and clear future ability to repay?
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
HISTORY AND ECONOMICS TEXTS TELL US: DISTRIBUTING WEALTH WILL END UP EVERYONE PENNILESS AND HUNGRY EXCEPT THOSE IN THE GOVERNMENT.
Rod_Patrick (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 12:00AM EST (link)Obama’s political platform is nothing but an old rhetoric borrowed from his communist Latin American friends like Chavez and Castro.
Let’s fight Obama’s Socialistic “Stealing from Americans” Policy for the Greater Good of Other Americans. Let’s promote the American Very Successful Tradition of Wealth Development:
Modern Americans have forgotten how we have established our economic strength in the last 3 centuries. Let’s go back to that tradition.
Hank Williams Jr. says that the McCain-Palin ticket has something “really good” to offer.
Yeah bricker, who needs their 401k when they've got SS to fall back on?
stang (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 12:30AM EST (link)And please explain what caused the recession again. I’m not following your economic rationale here.
“Seems silly” is a more apt description of your post.
“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”
John Locke
Proof OBAMA Lied
Soulsamurai Wednesday, October 15th at 2:01AM EST (link)Here’s B.O. Caught on tape saying that ACORN and “Community Organizations” across America would play an important part in shaping his agenda:
http://roadsassy.com/2008/10/11/caught-on-tapeobama-promising-acorn-that-they-will-help-shape-his-policies-in-the-white-house/
Http://www.greatrancheswest.com
My initial reaction to this idea
Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 3:30AM EST (link)was YES. I’ll pay off my car loan.
Then I started thinking that I would essentially be taking $12500 out of the market (since that’s what it cost me before to get $10000 in cash there now) to pay off $10000.
How about he waits till the market goes up another 30% and then lets me take it out so I at least make a profit!
********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts
Retirement Plans
Mario (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 4:43AM EST (link)I’ve been hoping that some politician would propose what I consider to be a more sensible policy — a limited time % match to retirement plan contributions. I don’t know the ideal percent (5? 20?, it depends what’s affordable) and it would need to be capped per individual, but this is something that would appeal to the middle class and actually help people both short- & long-term. Since the stock market must be at or near a bottom, this is probably a good time for it, too.
This is bizarre
Badill_T Wednesday, October 15th at 8:06AM EST (link)This sounds like one of the better ideas to deal with the short-term pain of the recession: remove tax penalties on a portion of retirement accounts, allowing families the flexibility to deal with their personal situations.
Less taxes? Check. Empowering individuals? Check.
Would you prefer these same people withdraw the money and take the hit, or should government just give them welfare? These people know it’s a raw deal, but sometimes there aren’t any better options.
While they’re relaxing rules on investment accounts it would be nice if they’d take away the investment limit on my Roth IRA, I have a good deal of money I would like to transfer over. Of course, people like me are not the ones they’re trying to help.
10k or 50k?
Yil Wednesday, October 15th at 8:18AM EST (link)If you’re argument is that pulling money out tax free is bad, then I guess you mention McCain’s plan… Obama wants no taxes on the lower of 10k or 15% of your total retirement savings. McCain wants a fixed 10% tax on the first $50,000 withdrawn. Which of those 2 is more likely to have people withdrawing large sums now?
Sigh.
Stephen Wednesday, October 15th at 10:05AM EST (link)Yet another example of how Obama’s policies sound all warm and fuzzy, but actually can mean economic downturn and ruin.
http://stshores24.com
I don't
Charles Lee (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 10:32AM EST (link)believe anything these guys say before election day it comes down to character. the choice is for me a smooth talking lawyer or an American hero simple as that
joe6pack
Hmmm...
zroxx (Diary) Wednesday, October 15th at 2:28PM EST (link)This is a head scratcher for me. I’d be generally in favor of anything that reduces government paternalism. The idea that we have to control a citizen’s access to their money (I presume we all agree that 401k funds are indeed their money) seems to rise from a nanny-state mindset.
It is a withdrawal penalty, not necessarily a prohibition, but the nanny-state implication is pretty clear: government is engaged in social engineering designed to push citizens toward behaviors that government deems appropriate, by seizing some portion of a citizen’s savings when they behave “incorrectly” and rewarding them with some tax advantage when they behave “correctly”.
Selfishly I like 401k’s. From a principled perspective, it’s an area that the federal government should never have gotten itself involved in, and there would be numerous other ways for citizens to plan for and save for retirement without it.
McCain should one-up Obama and propose terminating the 401k program entirely, immediately allowing all citizens unfettered access to the entirely of funds they have contributed to date. Give citizens the responsibility to plan for and save for their own retirement and decrease the size of government.