The Vice Presidential Debate


I missed the first 15 minutes of the debate but I think that it is safe to say that while each side fulfilled its objectives, Sarah Palin impressed most. In part, this was because expectations were low but even if one tosses aside the expectations game, Palin did what was necessary to revitalize Republicans who had been feeling demoralized because of the polls and because of the economic news we have been hearing about for the past three weeks. Republicans obviously have to reach out to independents as well, but never underestimate the necessity of having a revitalized base.

From what I heard, her worst gaffe was calling General McKiernan in Afghanistan “General McClellan,” which appears to indicate that Sarah Palin was having a Civil War flashback. Of course, Joe Biden referred to “Bosniacs” so the gaffes were not one-sided and for a Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to refer to “Bosniacs” . . . well, it’s kinda interesting, to say the least. I wonder if people will make an issue of it. They should and they most certainly would if Sarah Palin made that comment. Again, it is kind of silly that we are penalizing candidates for innocent verbal flubs that have little to nothing to do with how they would govern, but fair is fair and this gaffe deserves a fair amount of ridicule. Wonder what the Bosnians thought about this statement.

At the end of the day, of course, this debate will probably not do anything to change any votes. Votes are for the top of the ticket, not for the people whi fill the Vice Presidential spot. Sarah Palin did do what was necessary to revitalize the Republican base but more needs to be done for the McCain-Palin ticket to come back from behind. And only John McCain will be able to complete any comeback.

UPDATE: See this concerning the “Bosniac”/”Bosniak” comment.


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Pork Barrel Hooeyy!!

kayakjack Friday, October 3rd at 1:51AM EST (link)

To me, John Mccain has been plugging away at this whole maverick reformer persona. When you look at the issues people are concerned about, Washington reform IS NOT one of them. Day by day he looks more desperate and out of touch! Not to mention angry and dangerous. The Republicans WILL NOT be making a return to the Whitehouse!!!

 

I'm so not the expert here

BlueLandRed (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 1:56AM EST (link)

but I think using Bosniaks is correct.

 

Thanks for the pronouncement kayakjack (TROLL)

stang (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 2:04AM EST (link)

We’ll just cancel the elction and swear Obama in as Emperor for Life!

“Who is it that affirms most boldly? Who is it that holds his opinion most obstinately? Ever he who hath most ignorance; for he also hath most pride.”

Akhenaton

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence.”

John Locke

 

Pejman

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 2:59AM EST (link)

There were at least 2 articles that Pejman wrote that I totally disagreed. But I still liked them a lot and they were written with passion and authenticity.

But this one is the most unspiring article I have read here at RS that claims to be written by Pejman.

Please, whoever you are, bring back the old, Pejman Yousefzadeh who AlWAYS revitalizes RS readers. We have high respect for Pejman and we need to this fight against the Socialists and Anti-Americans.

 

The race is on

wmhudson Friday, October 3rd at 3:01AM EST (link)

The presidential race is now heating up. The media would want you to think that O’bama is in the lead, but he is just hanging on. Most of the people in the audience behind the cameras in the O’bama campaign are just kids. look for yourself, look into the audience. Kids that can’t even vote making noise to give the impression that he has great support. Don’t be fooled. The McCain ticket will win!

 

The race is on

wmhudson Friday, October 3rd at 3:04AM EST (link)

The presidential race is now heating up. The media would want you to think that O’bama is in the lead, but he is just hanging on. Most of the people in the audience behind the cameras in the O’bama campaign are just kids. look for yourself, look into the audience. Kids that can’t even vote making noise to give the impression that he has great support. Don’t be fooled. The McCain ticket will win!

Thank you, BlueLandRed

Kordo Friday, October 3rd at 3:05AM EST (link)

In point of fact, it is the correct term. I thought it was a goof myself, when he first said it. I was wrong, and Joe was right (I guess that’s the kind of thing you pick up after a few years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee). But seriously, even granting my Obama-supporting perspective, is “good enough” really, well, good enough?

Speak the [State] [T]ruth [from Rahm Emanuel]; Then leave [because you got banned], quickly. -Russian proverb [Updated for this troll by NS]

So you don't like reform. You want more of the same. Isn't that so "Obamasame"?

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 3:09AM EST (link)

If the people don’t care about the need for reforms in Washington then…

It is the People who are more “out-of-touch”!

I thank got that those out-of-touch people are beginning to feel the economic pains caused by the Democrats. That way, they will start to feel again and exclaim “ouch!”

Soon enough, they will soon know that they have been deceived of wrong, hateful and Anti-American ideologies:

Obama and Democratic Policies and Programs are nothing but third-world, socialistic policies based on the old failed policies of the liberals and socialists that demonized many countries around the world.

 
 
 

Check the CIA factbook

factsarefun Friday, October 3rd at 3:48AM EST (link)

‘Bosniacs’ is the correct term.

Eagerly awaiting the apologetic update.

Agreement with wmhudson

GOPsince1992 Friday, October 3rd at 3:53AM EST (link)

I avidly agree with you wmhudson. I myself am a college student and just the other day a few students from my college came to my door and asked for me by name. They talked to my father who then told me later that there were these college kids at the door for me. He told me their names, yet I do not know who the hell they even where. So yes!!! The Obama campaign is recruiting just random kids who are too busy with final exams, frat parties, and girls to really watch and understand the issues. Thus, from personal experience, these college students have to follow the flock in order to fit in and to be accepted by their peers, and far be it from them to speak out against their teachers who teach liberal jargon and have thier grades be affected. So, in the end I am not worried because most of these “kids” in Obama’s campaign will not even show up to the polls. Basically they will shout, yell, and scream for the party but its been shown that most young voters who are Democrats do not go to the polls. (GOTTA TAKE THOSE FINALS AND CAN’T MISS MY FRAT PARTY, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE VOTING). Thank you wmhudson for the inspiration for my first blog.

 
 

The left wing media???

kayakjack Friday, October 3rd at 4:20AM EST (link)

My god you people are all over the place! You call Liberalism a desease then you aspouse the virtues of the right! You go on about how the right are the only ones with values and morality, then you give us mean-spirited people like Anne Coulture and Rush Limbaugh who spew such hateful retoric. Saying things like MJ Fox is faking symptoms and that Canada, our closest and most reliable ally, should be “crushed.”.. Really..Canada??? And most of all, how can you say that the media is left wing when everytime I turn on my radio I hear right-wing commentators??? Or is the truth really that anyone who has freedom of thought and debates anything you say is automatically the enemy? Your way or the highway??

Nice to see you this way :)

gensec (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 4:29AM EST (link)

Your stream of consciousness meltdown demonstrates one more good effect of Gov. Palin’s tour de force.

 
 

LOL

kayakjack Friday, October 3rd at 4:37AM EST (link)

You have a good sense of humour Gensec..hats off to ya! ;o)

Kudos for the classical reference, but...

Kordo Friday, October 3rd at 5:30AM EST (link)

I hafta say I think it’s snarkier aspect applies more to McCain, than to Obama. Obama strikes me as a person willing to change his mind based on new evidence, while McCain seems dead-set on riding his worldveiw til the wheels come off.

Speak the [State] [T]ruth [from Rahm Emanuel]; Then leave [because you got banned], quickly. -Russian proverb [Updated for this troll by NS]

It's up now to Michigan People whom they wanna vote for.

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 5:51AM EST (link)

To conservatives and republicans in Michigan…self-help can still work, who knows?

Don’t lose faith. Hang in there.

God help us all.

 
 
 

About the debate

MainelyFree Friday, October 3rd at 6:02AM EST (link)

I think Palin resurrected her career last night. The Couric interview was a disaster for her and last night she redeemed herself. After this election (which I think is over now and I’ll explain that in a minute), in two or four years from now when she gets back into national politics, the pundits will look back at this campaign and say “she was just too green.” She is going to be a strong social conservative force down the road.

However, her performance needed to be way above an beyond expectations for this to help McCain. He needed something to talk about in the coming weeks, instead he has something to talk about today, and today only. With the House taking up the bailout bill again, she didn’t do enough to dominate the news cycle.

To be fair I’m not sure anyone could have done what she really needed to do to revive McCain, but fair or not, there you have it.

I think both must be acceptable-I live in a town with a large population of Bosnian refugees

Just_Me Friday, October 3rd at 6:06AM EST (link)

They do not call themselves Bosniaks but Bosnians.

I had never heard the term, and at one point the apartments behind my home was referred to as “Little Bosnia” because there were a lot of Bosnian families living in them.

I have taught the children of Bosnians, my kids go to school with them and play sports with them. Bosniak is a term I hadn’t heard until Biden used it last night.

My Bosnian neighbors do not call themselves Bosniaks

Just_Me Friday, October 3rd at 6:08AM EST (link)

Guess they forgot to check the CIA handbook.

 
 
 

Palin exceeded expectations....

txaggies911 Friday, October 3rd at 6:39AM EST (link)

but I don’t think you can accurately say that she won. Judged on the sliding scale of expectations, she blew Biden away. Considering where some had set her bar, she HAD to exceed expectations.

Judged objectively, I think her sometimes obvious and not-so-smooth ignoring the question asked did her in a bit. But even on an objective measure, Biden only edged her out…maybe even lost slightly if you were watching with red-tinted glasses.

Point is, the debate won’t change much. It wasn’t a commanding enough performance by Palin to completely get her past the rough (to put it kindly) interviews she had. It wasn’t enough to turn the momentum. But she redeemed herself greatly with the performance.

And can we get a correct pronunciation of nuclear???

use reply to this kayak

kyle8 (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 6:46AM EST (link)

I will attempt to answer you. Just like on the left the right is not a monolithic entity. There are plenty of us who do not like a lot of Rush’s rhetoric, and absolutely despise Coulter. Just as there are those on the left who are embarrassed by Daily Kos and Air America.

As for the Media, yes we have talk radio and FOX, but the left has nearly every newspaper, and all the other TX news, and always have for decades.

My support for right leaning/libertarian values is based on my years of experience. I am often disappointed by the Republican party, but I am ALWAYS disappointed by the Donkey party.

As for corruption and the misuse of government, The Bush administration has not been good, but the Donkeys are ALWAYS in the middle of every scandal, latest being the Freddie Mac-Fannie Mae thing.

Government is always our enemy, even when it is doing some important things that it needs to do. It is what is called a necessary evil. You will probably realize this as you grow older.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 
 

Unless

hunter (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 7:14AM EST (link)

Team McCain hangs the mortgage meltdown where it belongs, on Obama and the democrats, little else will matter.
The facts are there.
The videos are there.
Why is team McCain not there?

hunter

 

Reminded me of Bush

FasterQuieter Friday, October 3rd at 7:17AM EST (link)

To me she lost resoundingly and she makes me kind of ashamed to be a Republican. Everything she said was learned by rote or not pertinent to the question at hand. What has happened to our party?

Bosniaks

Bobby216 Friday, October 3rd at 7:36AM EST (link)

Bosniaks are one ethnic group that live in Bosnia. The Bosnian refugees in your town could be from Bosnia but may not be Bosniaks. Or, put another way, all Bosniaks are Bosnian but not all Bosnians are Bosniaks.

 
 

Bosniak is the correct term, genius

LandMan Friday, October 3rd at 7:37AM EST (link)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks

Not all Bosnians are Bosniaks

Bobby216 Friday, October 3rd at 7:37AM EST (link)
 

Debate didn't do anything for the McCain camp.

Siberian Friday, October 3rd at 7:38AM EST (link)

Which is both good and bad.

It didn’t hurt them in any significant way and if Palin is not elected vice president probably will help to salvage her career. Had the last few weeks of Sarah ‘unable to answer simple questions’ Palin mindset in the media continued through November a loss would have meant she’d likely never go anywhere beyond Governor of Alaska. She’d have just become a punchline. I think tonights debate helped show that while she’s not very good at answering direct questions in an interview, she does well enough in a debate.

That said no matter how you look at it now McCain needs something to get the momentum back on his side and soon. He’s down virtually across the board, he’s pulled out of states that were previously seen as battlegrounds like Michigan. He needs something to shake up the race. Palin couldn’t deliver that tonight, which means it’s a win for Obama/Biden because nothing happened to undermine the status quo in the race.

We’ll be back talking about the Bailout plan which for whatever reason seems to be winning ground for Obama later today as the House votes again. If they yet again vote it down I expect to see the McCain slide continue.

McCain needs to change the topic from the economy soon, it’s not winning ground for him. Sadly things that would have likely helped the campaign by putting the topic on more favorable ground like the hotel bombing have been buried by the media’s focus on the bailout.

 

Judging by the trolls and mobies in this thread, I guess the left is worried again, Palin must have done well

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 7:40AM EST (link)

While we were embroiled in financial crisis arguing, and Obama was surging ahead to a 7 point lead, I noticed the trolls and mobies had pretty much disappeared.

Palin clearly must have done very well and rattled their cage, because they are back in full force today.

When their biggest complaint is to tell us the the term “Bosniacs” is a correct term, then they are really grasping at straws.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

"Reply to this" is the correct button, troll.

blooch Friday, October 3rd at 7:49AM EST (link)

In the English-speaking world, we call them “Bosnians”. With Biden, it’s hard to tell if it’s a gaffe, or if he’s trying to display his mad elite foreign policy skilz. He should steer clear of ambiguity.

“Lieutenant Dike wasn’t a bad leader because he made bad decisions. He was a bad leader because he made no decisions.”

Sarah Palin greatly helped the McCain campaign last night!

ZootSuit (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:10AM EST (link)

While it is absolutely true that people vote for the top of the ticket, her good performance in the debate last night makes McCain’s decision to choose her look better.

I think it is a legitimate argument to argue that neither a good debate performance nor a good speech is a substitute for experience — and that is an argument I apply to both Palin and Obama — but for those who think that debates and speeches equate to (or at least negate a lack of) experience, then I think Palin’s performance makes McCain’s judgment look better. And for better or worse, there are literally millions of people who equate debates and speeches with experience.

Therefore, Palin’s debate performance makes McCain’s judgment look better, which makes his campaign look better, which means more people will likely vote for him, the top of the ticket.

***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!

'Bosniac' is correct

kidkavon (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:14AM EST (link)

‘Bosnian’ refers to a nationality; ‘Bosniac’ refers to an ethnicity. A ‘Bosnian’ can be a Muslim, a Serb, or a Croat; a ‘Bosniak’ can only be a Muslim. This is true in English and only in English (Bosnians refer to themselves as ‘Bosanci’). LandMan’s ‘genius’ comment was uncalled for, but he at least has his facts right. You aren’t aiding the conservative cause with your self-righteous ignorance.

 
 
 
 

Are you arguing with yourself?

deltar (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:21AM EST (link)

“Again, it is kind of silly that we are penalizing candidates for innocent verbal flubs that have little to nothing to do with how they would govern, but fair is fair and this gaffe deserves a fair amount of ridicule.”

Which is it? Is it silly, or does it deserve riducule? Or was “Bosniac” incorrent at all?

Sorry, but this diary is not up to your usual high standards.

We used the term in Bosnia

tankertodd (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:28AM EST (link)

We used it to refer to the Bosnian Muslim population during our happy little deployment there. It makes sense since you can have Serbian and Croatian Bosnians.

For what it’s worth, they also referred to their language as Bosnian even though technically I think it’s called Serbo-Croatian.

Now I wonder why they would do that! :-)

———————————
The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race – Chief Justice Roberts

 
 

Palin did well

ILLINOIS_CONSERV (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:32AM EST (link)

but now it’s time for McCain to come out swinging in the next debate. He needs to respond to Obama’s repeated attempts to link him to Bush. He needs to make Obama look foolish every time he tries to make that connection. And for goodness sake he needs to hammer Obama’s connection (and the rest of the dems) to Fannie Mae’s Franklin Raines. Obama and Biden have no qualms about connecting McCain to Bush, so I don’t see why McCain doesn’t bring up the connection between Obama and Raines and how the sub-prime mess took flight. And speaking of connections, let’s re-visit the Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Bill Ayers connections too. Time to sock Obama in the nose. We need to see some fire from John!

The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing – Edmund Burke

Wow, you aren't a very good moby, are you?

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:41AM EST (link)

This has to be the worst moby attempt I’ve ever seen. It is truly and utterly wretched.

Moe, I really think you should give this one a pass. This was SO bad that he should get one more chance to work on an improved version. Something that he can be proud of.

Then again, blamming him would be a mercy killing, wouldn’t it?

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

 
 

Of Course the VP Affects Votes

Brad Smith (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:41AM EST (link)

I have to say, Pej, I don’t understand this ridiculous notion that what the VP candidate does “will probably not do anything to change any votes.”

Of course it will! That’s why people watched the debate. That’s why you blogged on it at length. That’s why there was alarm over Palin’s poor showing in the Couric interviews, and glee over her strong showing last night.

It is true that relatively few voters (though by no means none) go into the booth thinking, “I like Obama over McCain, but I am voting for McCain because I like Palin more.” But for virtually all voters the VP nominee is part of the large backdrop that fills the canvas, and makes the top of the ticket seem better or worse. To say the VP won’t change votes is like saying a movie score won’t change people’s appreciation of the movie – we know that that is simply not true, the movie score is vitally important… even if few viewers walk out going, “Man, if it weren’t for the score, I wouldn’t have liked that movie.”

Does the VP nominee affect votes? Of course she does.

Brad Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
Capital University website
Center for Competitive Politics website

Key K-Jack

ILLINOIS_CONSERV (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:47AM EST (link)

Radio makes money by selling commercial space. Therefore, radio stations KILL for listeners. It is their life-blood. The reason there is Conservative talk is because there are many Conservative listeners. It is a business and that’s where the money is.

Now if you want to talk about hate, go listen to Obama’s spiritual advisor. You remember him, right? He was the Pastor of the “church” Obama and his family attended for 21 years! Ring any bells for ya? You know, the guy who baptized Obama’s children. The guy who wrote the forward for Obama’s book. You will learn all about hate from the sermons of this so called “Reverend” (I understand he has DVD’s available if your memory is a little fuzzy).

The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing – Edmund Burke

Mean Spirited ??

PaRep (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 8:53AM EST (link)

I think you lefties ought to look in the mirror There Sparky

Bush is Hitler, Police State & all the other Mind numbingly Stupid stuff

 
 
 

I think I am in love with Sarah

rmauney2000 (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:23AM EST (link)

WOW…once again being nervous for Sarah like I was for her convention speech was unfounded. SHE WAS GREAT LAST NIGHT !!

But now that the debate “pop-quiz” is over…GET HER OUT HERE McCAIN…we need her campaigning not only for McCain, but for Elizabeth Dole in a hard race here in NC and other tight races i.e. Minnisota, New Hampshire, Colorado, and other Senate and House races.

Go Sarah Go…

Hey you better watch it

PaRep (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:36AM EST (link)

The 1st Dude will come looking for you, In ill temper hahahaha

I agree with you though, Where can me find me a Sarah Palin???

Rush meanspirited?

Michael Dugas (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:36AM EST (link)

I have listened to Rush Limbaugh for 20 yrs now and the man IS NOT mean-spirited.
He is passionate and vocal about his beliefs and extremely smart when it comes to what makes Washington tick but he is not mean spirited. You guys on the left only wish you had a personality who could
express your viewpoint with such clarity and understanding.

Now, who do I give this 2 cents too?

Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !

Since it's *you* asking, Dave_in_Fla, OK.

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:42AM EST (link)

Sorry, but I have limited time and MainelyFree's comment's more interesting.

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:54AM EST (link)

HI NOOB TROLL Nice not to know you

PaRep (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 9:58AM EST (link)

Feeling a litle Poopy this morning are we??

MainelyFree, I think that you may be not getting...

Moe Lane (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 10:01AM EST (link)

…the GOP’s need to stop our slide down the well. I don’t mean among independents; a lot of that is economy-driven right now, and we won’t know the ratio until the mess straightens itself out. I mean among our own base. What we really needed, more than anything else, was an indication that the RNC speech wasn’t a fluke. Anybody can make a speech. What we got last night was confirmation that when Palin is capable of communicating our ideas and ideals effectively when she is allowed to do so. That means that, yes, the regular media really did do a hatchet job on her interviews; and, yes, the McCain campaign really did keep her too close to the vest.

But now that we know that she can slug it out, time for her to go out there and start slugging. And we’ll figure it out from there.

Moe, I figured I'd try to punch up his attempt

Dave_in_Fla (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 10:18AM EST (link)

I mean I hate to encourage a moby, but Lord I hate to see incompetence in any chosen endeavor, even one that is as utterly useless as this.

So here is my attempt to improve on it (clears throat)

I was so excited about the Sarah pick, and she just wowed me during the convention! I’ve been with everyone else, just scratching my head over these interviews she has been giving, trying to figure out where the Sarah from the convention went? Last night she did so much better, but I’m a little concerned. It seemed like she had memorized a lot of her answers. I mean she delivered them in a jaw dropping style, but it seemed a little too much like the way Bush seems to memorize the major points he needs to make. I’m worried that the media is going to make a big deal out of that and that it could play into Obama’s hand. But she sure looked great up there!

Ok, mobies, see this is the way to do it. You have to be subtle, otherwise we sniff you out within seconds. Now even my improvement would be noticed within a few minutes, but you would get a chance to post more than once, before Moe drops the blam stick on you.

“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” – Joe McCarthy

Agreed

MainelyFree Friday, October 3rd at 11:23AM EST (link)

I think the best thing McCain can do with Palin right now is get her on the TV. Sure, she draws a crowd at a rally, but if she can appear live on national shows, and she can put in a repeat performance of last night, it could draw quite a bit of positive buzz. Unfortunately it looks like they have relegated her back to media silence and campaign rallies. We’ll see if that changes in the coming days.

And thanks Moe for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

I think you are right

SeanF2000 Friday, October 3rd at 11:44AM EST (link)

the left was really primed for a catastrophic hindenberg trainwreck. Instead, Sarah got her groove on for at least portions of the debate, and never embarrassed herself the way she did with Couric. The left was very eager for the embarrassment.

What the debate did is stop the campaign from being a freakshow and puts the substance and style of the candidates back on the table as legitimate points to discuss. Today is a great day for Sarah Palin fans. The question is, what will next week look like?

What happened to "our" party?

mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, October 3rd at 6:37PM EST (link)