when he burns the Constitution.

“The Constitution….? Oh geez I had that damn thing around here somewhere. Where’d it go ? It’ll turn up. Don’t worry.
You can rest assured that I looked at it very carefully and I didn’t see anything about the right to bear arms anywhere but thanks for asking.”

I think you can buy one at city hall for like 15.00…

I’m calling for a Birther Surge!!

If you believe this story, then you have to believe that in the two years or so this has been discussed that not a single person in Hawaii associated with the hospital at that time happened to mention that this was the case.

I’m sorry, but that defies belief.

When it came to Nixon, it wasn’t the crime but the cover-up that got him canned, right?

At least one that could disprove it. That is, surely there are thousands of persons who have requested birth certificates from the state. Surely some of these persons could reveal what kind of certificate they received. We could also thereby see if the version released last year is consistent with the current form of birth certificates.

That said, it does remain the case for a number of states that they don’t provide photocopies of the original birth certificate but rather a standard form that contains the information that the state deems necessary.

And incidentally, what do we know about the identity of the father, which I think is far more interesting than the citizenship issue?

and get a DNA test….Maybe Obama’s MAMA was not really his MAMA…..Where is DADA buried???

The State of Hawaii likely never had the “original” historical document. They probably had a paper xerox copy of the hospital original on file. That is what they would have discarded (if true), but not before they scanned it. The “electronic file” probably includes a scan of the document they had on file. Most states now keep an electronic archive of all of the scans they have of their old paper documents. It works much like microfilm used to.

Let’s see what information 0′s archived scan image has in it.

Or

Maybe no archive scan exists because no hospital ever issued an original for 0 because… well…

Paperless = we won’t find a paper trail of O’s birth certificate.

That’s Transparency really means for the First Black President. LOL!

I’m not intimately familiar with Hawaii law, but it is a lot like Alaska law, which is a lot like Oregon law which was imposed on the Pacific territories in the early 1900s.

Things like birth certificates are among the most important documents that governments maintain and they have elaborate mechanisms to maintain the integrity of such records. This is especially true in states like Alaska and Hawaii that have large and at times contentious aboriginal populations and which haven’t always conveyed the same body of rights on their white and indigenous populations.

Hawaii has for some time been the exclusive province of very corrupt Democrats, so they might have done something stupid, but even under Democrats they usually take pretty good care of stuff like this because birth certificates are so important for things like Social Security, drivers licenses, and passports. It wasn’t that long ago that residents of both Hawaii and Alaska had to show a passport and go through immigration to come into the mainland US, so elaborate systems to assure a person’s identity would have been still in place in ’61, only two years after statehood for Hawaii.

On much less portentious matters, I had to sign my life away to remove records from my office and place them in storage or destroy them. Every few years I had to revise as necessary and have approved an elaborate retention schedule for all records that categorized all the records produced by my office and stated explicitly how long they would be kept on file in the office, how long they would be kept in mass storage, how they would be inventoried, and when or if they could be destroyed – and the inventory of what was destroyed had to be maintained forever.

Unless this was some really stupid Democrat thing, I cannot imagine a state government destroying paper copies of birth certificates even if they had gone to a paperless system for simple retrieval and inquiry. Chain of custody and authenticity are REAL issues with any electronic record. Courts and other triers of fact will let you admit electronic copies, but if there is an objection to authenticity, you’d best be prepared to call the custodian of the rocord for sworn testimony and cross on how it was produced, when, by whom, and when and if it had been modified. In fact, it is best to have all of the originals in reserve to answer objections.

Visualize Comrade Obama being called as a witness in some matter and opposing cousel asks for voir dire to establish his competency to testify and asks that he prove that he is, in fact, one Barack Hussien Obama born in Hawaii in 1961. He’d have the devil’s own time proving he was The One.

Washington DC that requires our attention.

thingy is a good way to spend our time and money…

Just what are you planning to do about it? Please lay out a strategy for us.

Or shut the hell up.

Let’s play pretend.

I’ll grant you that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” as is specified in the Constitution. We’ll call that a “fact”.

Now then…

Just what are you planning to DO about it?

They also can’t wrap their mind around the scale of what a trillion dollars really means nor do they have time to peel the ACORN onion or thumb through 1000′s of earmarks.

But, they easily grasp the concept of “Why doesn’t this guy produce a legitimate birth certificate?”

There are also millions of white Obama voters who just had their rose colored glasses smashed when Obama played the race card on the Cambridge cop.

These two things are real street level politics, not wanking wonker stuff.

You guys need to realize that politics win elections, not policy positions.

Personally, I think Obama was born in Hawaii, and even if not, his mother was a citizen so he is natural-born and thus eligible. I don’t think there’s any hope or reason to think he will be removed from office. That said, there are some interesting points to make about all of this:

1. I personally believe that he is hiding his ACTUAL birth certificate (not his COLB that was released) because there is something embarrassing on it (different father, maybe?). Just like he is hiding ALL of his college and health records for some reason. There can be no other reason that I see. So if the BC issue can serve to create some sort of push to see those other records, it doesn’t hurt. Obviously, he will resist, but if the call gets loud enough and he continues to hide that info, it does make him look like he’s hiding something. The vast majority of Americans don’t know he never relased that info.

2. During the campaign, the MSM largely ignored the BC issue. There were the court cases, but they were largely covered by alternative media. Now, we have ONE person from the liberal media (Lou Dobbs on CNN) who talks about it a few times, and we have the PRESIDENT OF CNN telling him to shut up, and now we have a contradictory report out of Hawaii that his BC was destroyed. Well, didn’t Gov. LInda Lingle say the she had PERSONALLY SEEN AND SEALED the long form of his BC?? All this happened because ONE reporter talked about it. What else will we learn if a few more start to question it?

3. Remember, Obama’s chances for passing his legislation is directly tied to his personal popularity. Bringing up ANYTHING that can embarrass him IS working to stop his agenda.

4. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I have seen MANY folks, not all Republicans, and BY FAR not kooky people that are convinced that this is an issue. I do not see how constantly ridiculing anyone who believes this by accusing them of wearing a “tinfoil hat” is productive for advancing the conservative message. I’m not saying we should advance this issue, but we need to find a way to deal with it that doesn’t chase conservatives away just because they are not as convinced as others that it is a non-issue.

As mbecker, Neil, and others have asked repeatedly, what is the game plan if this actually pans out? The fact of the matter is, our resources (political capital, time, money, volunteers) are finite, and dedicating said resources to fighting winnable battles against the President’s 100% unconstitutional agenda with the end result of having more Republicans elected and bad policy thwarted or made less terrible is a far better strategy than wasting them on an issue which, if it pans out (that’s in and of itself is a big if), will at most only marginally hurt the Democrats, will get the Republican Party almost nothing, and will change no one’s opinion on the issues in a climate perfect for educating voters on why social democracy and socialism are failures.

Well, we certainly can wonder why it’s been so hard to et even that information out of the state of Hawaii and BO.

Such evasiveness naturally leads one to suspect there’s some reason to be evasive. Maybe it’s just that his religion is listed as “Muslim” on the dang thing. That would definitely have hurt his campaign.

I don’t have to wait to die to realize that this man is a fraud.

I’m actually surprised we’re being allowed to discuss this since all we “birthers” are nuts, and we can’t have those kind of discussions around here.

Anytime someone brings up this subject it usually disappears rather quickly.

Obviously knowing the truth at this juncture isn’t going to change a damn thing, we’re stuck with this guy for 3 1/2 years before anything can be done, I just hope it doesn’t set precidence for future elections. Like when Arnold decides he can run America better than California.

but we continue to push this.

So I hope you were up there trying to get the vote in Florida recounted, because you’re pursuing the same kind of conspiracy that we ridiculed for months in 2000 (and again in 2004, to some degree)

That I didn’t read this. But I do however understand the gist of this argument.

What I don’t understand personally is how this is an argument at all.

If your running for president of America, a birth certificate is mandatory. It’s like being 21 and buying beer, except 100 times more important.

Personally, if someone came up to me and said, ‘um, sir, you don’t deserve to be the leader of me and my children [because you're a foreigner and may not care about the country as much as I do]‘, I’d whip it out. I’d shove it in their face. I’d very CLEARLY declare my right as American Citizen.

The very fact that an easy obtainable document for ALL of us is suspect, against the grain of the greatest and most position in the world is suspect, is common sense telling. Period.

From: Richard Westcott
To: loudobbs@cnn.com
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 5:53:48 PM
Subject: Show you

Dear Lou,

You have CNN news group here in Tokyo, I will gladly show them what
a birth certificate looks like from Bethesda Naval long and short form.

I will gladly give them information about what this criminal group of gangsters
is doing to the people of the United States of America, it goes far beyond what the
people could even imagine. If we do not stop these guys right now, there will be nothing
but slaves worldwide.

As you know they have 194 countries signed on to the Pandemic rules and regulations by the WHO owned and operated by the United Nations as a private corporation for Rockefellers, Rothschilds,Medicis and Prince Charles.. When the pandemic is really hyped hard soon!, all countries will become under WHO control. That means their is no America or Japan or England, there is just worldwide martial law!!!!!!!!!! All governments could stay in power which are already related to these groups through selling out their coutries for money and power.

Sincerely!
Richard Westcott

All this hype about Obama’s legitimacy (whether you may believe or not) is drawing many more people to look at Obama’s agenda. There is and will continue to be spillover from this to other agenda items such as Captrade, socialized medicine etc….

This is waking up many people to get involved and speak out. This may be the spark to wake up many Americans.

Let the “fringe” work on the birth certificate if they like. Who says mainstream conservatives or the RNC, or any activists on RS has to even make this an issue at this point or any point in the future?? Who???

The point of focusing on birth certificate at the expense of all the other issues is a complete straw man. In fact, it can actually help recruit new people to the effort to combat socialized medicine, cap/trade etc….

Noting the recent thread about a nicer Red State. There are a few borderline snobby elitists around here calling names when they either can:

1. present a thoughtful argument against
2. choose to ignore posts they disagree with.

Throwing around names either tells me you have some innate fear of it being true, or have run out of legitimate argument to the contrary.

My way or the highway in legit debate is a weak argument.

Bush taking the high road on BDS pretty much killed his presidency and conservatives in connection. Let things run their course w/ Obama and see how he responds. Again this issue whether legit or not is waking up people to take some action in questioning The One and will spill over into activism on health care, cap and trade, and the future surprises The One has in store for America.

If you can’t say something nice and constructive, STFU. This elitism by a few RS will turn many people away. I think several apologies are in order here immediately.

Again, look at the big picture of getting more people involved in the issues YOU want by letting the surrogates do the fringe work. Textbook politics. Then just transfer that energy to the issues YOU want to work on.

For the first time (I think), a pro-BC diary is in the Rec’d list.

Some have attempted. But only you have succeeded. LOL!

Seriously, Congrats my friend. Never mind the comments of the non-birthers (oops… that includes me – LOL!)

I don’t think the State of Hawaii lost mine is an accepted excuse. If you want to play, produce a damn birth certificate.

I wasn’t interested in this story, either, but now I am starting to believe they are hiding something.

Here’s an interesting video of a reporter trying to interview congressmen about this issue. It’s a bit obnoxious, but skip to 3:20 and watch Trent Frank from Arizona. To his credit, the reporter let the representative speak his piece and kept it all in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7Yw

The term “Natural Born” refers back to natural law, perhaps explaining why the term wasn’t defined. If it takes positive law to make you a citizen, then you’re not Natural Born.
United States law makes you a citizen if you’re born within our borders. This does not automatically make you Natural Born, though it does make you a citizen at birth.
The Natural Born requirement in the Constitution was placed there to make sure we would never have someone with potentially divided loyalties in the highest office in the land. Dual citizenship clearly violates this principle.
Obama had British citizenship through his father at birth. Even if he was born in Hawaii as he claims, he still relies on positive law for citizenship, since naturally he would inherit his citizenship from his father.
What to do about it? Get the word out. Help people understand what Natural Born means. But don’t expect the media to get onboard until they’ve been really offended by Obama. Don’t expect the courts to intervene, they’re afraid of the people. Don’t expect the Democrats to care until they finally realize he’s just using them. But keep this issue alive… we demand the rule of law!

the original birth certificate and that it was on file? I’ll have to go back and search, but that is my recollection.

I am very disappointed in some of the posters here who are pooh-poohing the “birther” movement of which I have been a part since late spring of 2008. To me, the real issue here is Obama’s possible duplicity. Remember with Clinton: it wasn’t the sex, it was the lying! I have absolutely no doubt that if the truth finally comes out while Obama is still in office the Democratic congress will immediately pass a resolution granting him some sort of exception. However, the American public will finally wake up out of their stupor and see this despicable man’s true colors. Remember, it wasn’t the break-in that took down Nixon, but the cover-up.

By the way, I am a “reformed Democrat” who joined last year’s PUMA movement and never looked back. Many of my fellow “birthers” were convention delegates who brought this issue up to the party leaders, who subsequently chose to ignore it. The Democrat party is complicit in this deception.

Hello! Doesn’t anyone else see the implications here?!?! Revealing this sort of mass fraud and cover-up by the Dems (dims) would sink the party for generations.

I still have Dem (dim) friends who were screaming last year about McCain’s place of birth and ultimate eligibility. Does anyone here actually think that if McCain had won the left wouldn’t be investigating the legitimacy of HIS presidency? If anyone here is that gullible I have 40 acres of prime swampland to sell you.

As a former Dem (dim) I can tell you all that no one fights dirtier than the loony left. I am disappointed in the “high-minded’ attitude of some Repubs regarding this issue. Wake up, my fellow conservatives. Get down in the gutter and FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT! Obama and the Dems agenda must be defeated and in order to do that NOTHING should be taken off the table.