Barack Obama may normalize relations with Cuba.Call me crazy but I don’t have a problem with that.


Ola Amigos.

President Barack Obama is poised to offer an olive branch to Cuba in an effort to repair the US’s tattered reputation in Latin America.

The White House has moved to ease some travel and trade restrictions as a cautious first step towards better ties with Havana, raising hopes of an eventual lifting of the four-decade-old economic embargo. Several Bush-era controls are expected to be relaxed in the run-up to next month’s Summit of the Americas in Trinidad and Tobago to gild the president’s regional debut and signal a new era of “Yankee” cooperation.

The administration has moved to ease draconian travel controls and lift limits on cash remittances that Cuban-Americans can send to the island, a lifeline for hundreds of thousands of families.

Easy people….take it easy.Relax.

I’m sorry but I think this is a good idea.We should have done it long ago.
Why again do we have an embargo against Cuba,a country closer to Washington D.C. than Las Vegas or San Francisco?
It’s a left over policy from the cold war between the U.S. and the former Soviet Union.It’s a policy left over from the Kennedy administration for crissakes.
What exactly are the benefits of isolating Cuba anymore?
Are we trying to teach them a lesson or cause the overthrow of their government?It’s been almost fifty years and that has not happened.
I think it’s time to throw in the towel on that policy.No one can say we didn’t give it a chance to succeed.
I have a new rule for government policy.
If it doesn’t work after fifty years then let’s try something else.
Sort of like the war on poverty.
It’s time for a change.

They are our neighbor.
Yes people…I understand that Cuba is a communist country ruled by Fidel Castro.
China is a communist country as well isn’t it…?

China is our number one trading partner.Just try to pick up something in Wal-Mart or the Christmas Tree store that doesn’t have “made in China” stamped upon it.
They have a billion people living under communism and are poised to become one of the biggest and strongest military adversaries of the U.S. as I have pointed out before.
They killed thousand of protesters in the the streets in front of the world at Tiananman Square and have been massively criticized for their treatment of the people of Burma and nobody executes more people than China or is more restrictive of the media or political dissent except maybe North Korea.
We gave them missile technology for pete sakes so spare me the “they’re communists” crap.
As a matter of trade and foreign relations and also military policy the U.S. does business with communists.
If we can do business with them then why can’t we do business with some little third world banana republic like Cuba?
We are ready to sell military gear to Libya but we can’t travel to Cuba…oh come on.

What’s the big deal?Am I supposed to be still mad at Cuba because Fidel Castro got the better of John Kennedy at the Bay of Pigs or that they aligned themselves with the U.S.S.R. and 45 years ago had some Russian missiles on their soil?
To be honest the thing about Cuba that pisses me off the most was the way that they emptied out their prisons and sent them all over to the U.S. during the Mariel boat lift but it was Jimmy Carter who let them in so I guess that I should be more mad at Carter than Castro.
That was a nice little crime wave in Miami that we we got for our troubles.
Thanks Jimmah.

Since we already gave a whole American city to Cuba then why then can’t we just give them a little diplomacy?Let’s take over their beach resorts.That’ll show em’
So can someone tell me why not?
Why are we supposed to be still mad at Cuba and what the benefits are?
Aren’t we just holding a grudge that is over forty years old?
What’s the beef?

Here is how I see it.
Fidel Castro is a ghost.His brother Raoul isn’t far behind.They will both either be dead or out of power soon enough.The Castro regime is almost dead.
It’s time people to put the old and worn policies of the past behind us and bring Cuba into our hemisphere and our influence.
We should have made Cuba an ally long ago.What good does it do us to let Cuba to continue to be influenced mostly in part by Russia and Venezuela?
Let’s flood that damn country with American greenbacks,oil covered bargain hunting tourists,cellphones,porn and good old American decadence.
THAT’S HOW to change Cuba into a nation of greedy capitalistic pigs rather than it being the workers paradise that it is.
The flood of curious American who would no doubt travel there in droves would be an unstoppable influence upon Cuba and would be the catalyst for real change over there.
Just think about the influence that hundreds of thousands of Cuban American returning home to their homeland would have on that country.
It would be a political tsunami.
It’s just a good idea.
Since we can’t really travel to Mexico anymore as they are on the verge of civil war with the drug cartels just think about how nice and easy it would to hop on a plane and pop over to Cuba for a few days.
It might be nice.
What’s the downside?
It could be good.
They got those good cigars and all that sweet rum.You could fly there cheaper than flying to Bermuda.
Personally I would like to go.Their beaches are beautiful.

Let bygones be bygones people.We are still enforcing a policy that was crafted mostly by people who are now dead.Lets bring Cuba into our sphere of influence.They are ready for some change there and all they need is just a little push.
Can you say timber…?

Don’t forget…inside every Cuban is an American just waiting to get out.
Let them be Americans in their own country.

Buenos dias.



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36 Comments Leave a comment

Me too.

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:05PM EST (link)

If he can normalize relations with Iran and Syria, then Cuba must also be a fair game.

Thus, I have no expectation whatsover. This is just part of Obama’s “feeling good” character as a President.

The fact that the Obama Government is now bordering from Socialist to Communist, it would be silly for Obama to try promoting capitalism in Cuba. Capitalism is just not his cup of tea.

I gotta' say it....

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:15PM EST (link)

I’m a lot less worried about Cuba than I am about Iran.
At least Cuba isn’t looking to build a nuke or launch a missile like Iran is.
I have never heard of Cuba vowing to wipe somebody off the face of the map.
I am not aware of Cuban soldiers killing American soldiers like the Iranians have been doing in Iraq.
I think Cuba would become a good friend to the U.S. if we only gave them a chance.It’s a a well known fact that the Cubans who manage to make it here to our shores end up becoming Republicans
They are very conservative,religious and work very hard.
I like that about immigrants.
Let’s bring them on board..

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Agree.

Rod_Patrick (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:34PM EST (link)

Cuba is bankrupt and self-involved despite its previous posturings.

But Iran has economic resources to do “real” evil things against Americans.

Unfortunately, our benevolent Leader Obama thinks otherwise.

Just think of those steamy booze filled beaches....

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:39PM EST (link)

Aahhhhh….Si senorita.Eu quero mais um.Bebeidas por todos denovo por favor.

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I DO have a problem

dwarfmama (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:07PM EST (link)

with your snarky, patronizing tone. Why post here if you have no respect for your readers?

That said, I think there is potential for good things to come from normalizing relations with Cuba. I just don’t trust this administration to accomplish them. Remember “Only Nixon could go to China”?

Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. (Samuel Adams)

Damn....

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:25PM EST (link)

I forgot to hit “reply to this”.
I do that all the time.
The comment below is for you.

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What's your beef ...?

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 4:23PM EST (link)

Tell me specifically.
I’ll address your question.
I am rather snarky sometimes.That is true.
That’s my thing.
I’m a smart ass.You’re not the first one to tell me.
I’m a blast to go drinking with though.
Come on….. I’ll buy the first round.
Cut me some slack.
I’m a good guy.
Can you tell yourself that you have truly tried to understand and reach out to me…?
I am an open vessel waiting for your input.
Fill me.

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The present embargo has much more to do with political prisoners being held NOW, not any 50-yr old vendetta

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 6:11PM EST (link)

I would be open to a gradual easing of relations but only when Cuba accepts previous olive branches, esp the one that demands that they release political prisoners which include members of the press and those that have aided and abetted escapees from the Island prison called Cuba. The freest people on the island are at Gitmo, incl the terrorists held there!

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

we could "normalize" relations by annexing the

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:06PM EST (link)

place. Didn’t Castro steal the place from businessmen and landowners? Think of the cigar makers in latin America that had their farms and factories stolen. I am all for normalizing relations, but they have to give everything back as part of the deal. I think a Hague type war/terrorism 24/7 prosecution would be in order as well.

Molon Labe!

The Great Liberator

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:39PM EST (link)

exited the Oval Office on Jan 20, 2009

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 

That's all I'm saying.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 8:26PM EST (link)

We can start slow.
We can ask for concessions.
We can make demands.
It’s been too long.
Are we supposed to wait until Castro dies?How do we know that will make a difference?
We deal with countries worse than Cuba now.
Let’s give them a little push in the right direction.
It could be great for baseball.

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Then we agree - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:43PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

Of course we do Mikey.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:23PM EST (link)

When we don’t I’ll let you know..
It hasn’t happened yet.
Your opinions are like a weathervane of conservative ideals.
I may watch from afar sometimes but I do watch.

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thanks Kongey! - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 8:42AM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 
 
 

Why U.S. should maintain hard line on Cuba

Henry Gomez Sunday, March 8th at 6:30PM EST (link)

Dear NeoKong,

I guess it’s easy to comment on things with which you only have a passing acquaintance. Let me try to educate you on a few things.

First the ancient history. That little missile crisis wasn’t a quaint little thing from the history books. There were not only strategic missiles in Cuba but also tactical nukes that Fidel Castro was trying to convince the Russians to use in the event of a U.S. invasion. He was willing to destroy his country. Krushchev freaked out and JFK made it easy for him to withdraw the nukes by withdrawing our nukes from Turkey. Castro was livid. But the point is that even though this happened a LONG time ago, the regime is still ruled by that same generation. Yes, 10 U.S. administrations have passed but the same old Castro brothers that would have incinerated Washington D.C. are still in power in Cuba.

But beyond that let’s talk about more recent history. Did you know that in February of 1996 the Cuban air force, on the orders of Raul (that’s the way spell it) Castro shot down two U.S. civilian aircraft over international waters? That the action resulted in the deaths of 3 U.S. citizens and 1 U.S. resident? Try telling their families that it’s ancient history.

Did you know that 10 days after 9/11 the FBI arrested a Defense Intelligence Agency analyst that was about to be made privy to battle plans for Afghanistan? She was a Cuban agent. They had been accumulating evidence on her for some time but had to pull the trigger on her arrest because they couldn’t allow her to see plans that Cuba might sell to the Taliban. That agent’s name is Ana Belen Montes and she’s serving 25 years in prison. Look it up. That was 2001. Is that ancient history?

Let’s talk about the embargo. We’re not going to democratize Cuba through trade. If that were possible Cuba would already be democratic given all of the international trade it does with every other country in the world. The embargo protects us the taxpayers from bailing out castro, inc. when they default on payments for future sales of goods if the embargo is lifted. Cuba owes billions to every country it trades with. Do you want America to join that list of suckers? And what about the American assets Cuba has already stolen? You know the ones that caused the embargo to begin with? That was the largest expropriation of U.S. business assets before or since. Isn’t it reasonable to have some sort of settlement on that before more American corporations fall pray to a capricious and arbitrary dictatorship?

I’m sorry that the embargo infringes on your right to frolic on the beautiful beaches and have your way with Cuban women. Sometimes being morally correct requires a little bit of sacrifice.

By the way, the regime has been involved in every guerrilla war in the hemisphere for the last 50 years. Now that its destitute you want to give them the money to go back to their old ways?

How about this? When the regime introduces TRUE reforms including the privatization of large segments of the economy then we lower the embargo incrementally for good behavior.

We didn’t just cozy up to Libya. They made concessions and settlements and renounced terrorism. Cuba has not done so.

And another thing did you know that Cuba is currently home to dozens of U.S. fugitives including cop killers like Joane Chesimard?

Every single point you made is correct

AKSteveB (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:17PM EST (link)

BUT (you knew that was coming), I think the opening of the first McDonalds in Havana, and the exposure to the rest of the world an opening would allow, probably brings on the things you talk about a lot more than any diplomatic process.

Hell is other people – Sartre

You know...I have a theory.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:50PM EST (link)

Any country that has a McDonalds is on the right path to freedom.
Think about it.
What countries do not have a McDonalds?
Would you want to live there.
Of course not.
A McDonalds is a sure sign of civilization anywhere in the world.
Egg McMuffins will bring more change to the world than thousands of revolutionaries.

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We got concessions from other nations we normalized relations with. Cuba must be no different. They must at least free political prisoners and reciprocate on travel. - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:42PM EST (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

what did we get from China

AKSteveB (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:12AM EST (link)

in the beginning other than a couple of pandas?

Hell is other people – Sartre

that is my question too

mom2oneson (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:24AM EST (link)

they are still so awful

Henry Gomez answers this question below. nt

pilgrim (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:34AM EST (link)

We had an embargo against China for 30 years until they settled claims for properties that they had expropriated. China is a communist political system that allows Chinese businesses to profit in a capitalist economic system. Cuba is like North Korea, a communist dictatorship with a communist economic system.


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

thank you pilgrim

mom2oneson (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:46AM EST (link)

that was a good read :)

you're welcome, mom2oneson. here is a link to a pic

pilgrim (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 12:52PM EST (link)

that Henry Gomez put up at babalublog of a special hourglass to make a point.

http://babalublog.com/2009/03/lift-the-embargo-and-it-will-help-the-cuban-people/


Activists Taking Action: Unified Patriots

that is such a good picture!

mom2oneson (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 3:16PM EST (link)

So why do most people (myself including) think it’s about how they treat people as far as human rights? I think that is where the confusion comes in. I didn’t understand it was about their economic policies.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

No one is more sorry about that than I.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:42PM EST (link)

I am a nudist you know.

“.I’m sorry that the embargo infringes on your right to frolic on the beautiful beaches and have your way with Cuban women. Sometimes being morally correct requires a little bit of sacrifice.”

I can tell by your response that you are a smart man and command a good sense of history.
Yes it is true that Cuba or Fidel to be exact has not been a good boy or a good neighbor.
That’s the world we live in my friend.If we were to apply your strict standard to other nations would we have relations with China,Venezuela,Saudi Arabia,North Korea or any other host of nations?
I am aware that Cuba may not be an example of what a good country may be.Keep in mind that many of our “allies” or trading partners have done far worse at times.

Would you care to discuss Israeli or Chinese espionage…?

It is a matter of foreign policy to deal with the Palestinians and with Syria isn’t it?
Cuba is far less aggressive than they are.I can think of several nations that are much more hostile than Cuba but enjoy formal relations with the U.S.

Listen…all I’m saying is that maybe it’s time to stop freezing out Cuba.Cuba is more than one man.
It is more than it’s regime.
We can go around Castro.
We can certainly have some benchmarks or demands for more direct relations with Cuba and that would be prudent but in my humble opinion let’s get the ball rolling.
Nothing has to happen overnight and we do not need to make unrealistic concessions.
What I am trying to point out is that for some reason the U.S. seems to hold Cuba to a higher standard when it comes to normalizing relations.
The U.S. and past administrations have been willing to deal with regimes or dictators who have been or are much worse or dangerous than Cuba.
The list would be long.

It’s true that other countries trade with and do business with Cuba.They are not however the United States or their closest neighbor.
The U.S. has the clout to have Cuba make some concessions and to affect their govt. policies.
I’m not looking for perfection but maybe the time is now to start the process.
I don’t think Cuba would be as hardline as you may think if they knew the U.S. was willing to reach out to them a little.

Exactly when are we going to stop punishing that dinky little country.We brought China to the doorstep of capitalism and I think we could do it for Cuba as well.
For chrissakes we fought a war with Viet Nam but now we are willing to have relations with them.The conflict with them is younger than our conflict with Cuba.
Did the Cuban govt. kill over fifty thousand Americans or participate in genocide…?

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I don't see how maintaining the embargo helps to solve any of those problems.

RobW (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 11:05AM EST (link)

We’ve tried to isolate Cuba for 50 years. Whatever we hoped to accomplish, it hasn’t happened.

Being morally correct doesn’t mean we have to isolate people who do bad things (although that’s sometimes required). Instead, we’ve got to ask: what is the best thing we can do for the people of the United States and the people of Cuba?

We know what happens to the Cuban people (repression and economic hardship) and the Cuban government (nothing at all) when we keep up an embargo. I think it’s time to see what opening markets can do for political and economic freedom in Cuba, with an the extra benefit of more open trade for ourselves.

 
 

It's the only way we'll get to drill within 45 miles of Florida. Drill, amigo, drill! nt

Steve Maley (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 6:50PM EST (link)

The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.

Uh hoh geez..

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:59PM EST (link)

Oh God I know.

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Perhaps we could make a deal

bk (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:10PM EST (link)

We normalize relations with Cuba in exchange for Cuba using its fine system of free health care – which is far superior to ours – to treat our undocumented visitors.

I gotta' tell ya'

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 7:58PM EST (link)

I got a little rash I picked up at the nudie bar I wouldn’t mind having someone take a look at.
It’s sort of itchy.

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Cuba gets recognized, and here's what happens...

Chemical Sam (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:27PM EST (link)

The sugar growing Cubans in Florida go nuts. They lose all their political power. They, and the sugar growers in Hawaii lose the American sugar market to cheaper sugar and Virginia and the Carolinas lose their tobacco markets, too.

Coca Cola switches back to cane sugar. Many foodstuff products follow. There goes the corn sweetener market in Iowa.

The economic situations in all those states will suffer, particularly in the sugar industry states. Jobs and tourism losses.

Chavez and Castro’s younger brother Raul will never shut up. Oil prices go up,

Yet another avenue for the drug trade goes WAY up.

If Cuba gets opened up and gets into and hurts the American market, Obama loses most of Florida, Hawaii, Iowa, the Carolinas and Virginia!! and maybe a plains state or two, right back to a good decent Republican candidate.

But hey! they’re our friends now!

Come to think of it, maybe we should lift the ban on Cuba and teach the Floridians a lesson or two.

Criterion Chemical was in the black for FY2010!
Not bad considering the forces arrayed against small business these days.
Let’s see about actually making some serious profit this year. Shameless capitalism, by:
www.criterionchemical.com

And the illegal alien populations increase.

Chemical Sam (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 9:28PM EST (link)

n/t

Criterion Chemical was in the black for FY2010!
Not bad considering the forces arrayed against small business these days.
Let’s see about actually making some serious profit this year. Shameless capitalism, by:
www.criterionchemical.com

Cubans are not illegals.

NeoKong (Diary) Sunday, March 8th at 10:34PM EST (link)

If they make to our shores then they are allowed by law to stay.
That is of course unless your name is Elian.

Photobucket

I would take their rate of entry over the rate of entry of Mexicans illegals any day.

Am I a racist…?

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If they "make it to our shores" they do not automatically become citizens.

Chemical Sam (Diary) Saturday, March 21st at 4:32PM EST (link)

Cubans, like anyone else are illegal aliens if they enter this country illegally.
They can claim political asylum, I imagine. But they must stand up and claim it.

Race is irrelevant; if one is in this country illegally, one is an illegal alien.

If one wishes to emigrate to this country one should follow the law.

Elian Gonzoles was sent back to his father, who resides in Cuba, the only person who could claim legal guardianship. According to Janet Reno, a Clinton appointee, the USA had to legal standing to deny the father’s request. When relatives in Florida decided to prevent the extradition from taking place, they broke the law. An understandable, compassionate, but politically untenable thing to do. Ms Reno decided to take custody of the child by force after it was clear that the boy would not be handed over calmly.
This happened during Ms. Reno’s tenure and Bill Clinton’s presidency. Take this straw man up with the Kossites.

Criterion Chemical was in the black for FY2010!
Not bad considering the forces arrayed against small business these days.
Let’s see about actually making some serious profit this year. Shameless capitalism, by:
www.criterionchemical.com

 
 
 
 

A simplistic view

Henry Gomez Sunday, March 8th at 11:28PM EST (link)

Mr. Kong,

You have a rather simplistic view of the Cuba issue. For one thing we don’t have official diplomatic relations with Cuba but don’t mistake that for “freezing Cuba out” diplomatically. We have an interest section in Havana which is a de facto embassy and is in fact housed at what had formerly been the U.S. embassy. Cuba has an interests section in Washington D.C. and a diplomatic mission to the U.N. in New York. The U.S. has negotiated several agreements with Cuba such as the migration accords of the mid 1990s.

Secondly, about those McDonald’s restaurants that you think will free the Cuban people…

The problem is that the way the Cuban economy is set up there can only be McDonald’s if the regime allows it and then only if the regime (or the military) is the majority partner. What you don’t seem to understand is that we can lift the embargo on the regime but the regime doesn’t have to lift the embargo it has on the Cuban people.

They drink Coca-Cola in Cuba. Canadians, Brits, Spaniards, and Frenchmen all visit Cuba by the millions. Their tourist dollars haven’t liberated Cubans and neither will American tourist dollars. Why? Because the regime controls 90% of the Cuban economy and 100% of the parts that deal with foreign investment. Cuban workers at joint ventures such as hotels are paid about 5% of what the foreign partners pay the regime for their labor.

Also I don’t know if Syria and those other countries you mentioned killed American civilians and harbor American fugitives but I’m pretty sure they didn’t expropriate $1.8 Billion in U.S. assets.

China expropriated a fraction of what Cuba did when it went communist and as a result the U.S. embargoed China for 30 years until they settled. By the way China’s economy is managed much differently and much more openly (and privatized than Cuba’s).

It’s a complex issue, not one that you just throw out there on a flyer like you did, especially from the conservative side where our friends are supposed to be.

But rather than exchanging long comments why don’t you come on our Babalu Radio Hour Podcast this Wednesday to discuss.

my email address conductor@babalublog.com

Henry Gomez

What would be the harm then....?

NeoKong (Diary) Monday, March 9th at 7:41PM EST (link)

How does the embargo serve the U.S. or the Cubans?
Yes it is true there are some problems with Cuba and you seem very knowledgeable on that but it seems to me that we need to start somewhere.
If there are issues we will deal with them.
The government may control the majority of the the tourism there but they do have foreign investment.Hotels workers,bartenders and taxi drivers are some of the best paid people in Cuba aren’t they?
The Canadian and European money is good for Cuba but the greenback is still king.
Who controls most of the industry and profits in China….?
Is it foreign investors,private business people or the communist govt. of China?

We do hold Cuba to a different standard than we do other nations.How many countries have a white slave trade or child labor issues?We can travel to Thailand as sex tourists but can’t go to Cuba?Would you care to discuss how the Middle East treats women?There is a civil war brewing in Mexico and it is spilling over into American cities and we tolerate that .Nothing going on in Cuba comes even close to the carnage that Mexican drug cartels bring to the U.S.
We can buy Venezuelan oil from Hugo Chavez but can’t buy a bottle of Rum from Fidel.
Why not?
We gave nuclear technology to North Korea but we can’t give some tourism to Cuba?
Why not?
We gave missile tech to China so now they can strike the U.S. if they want but somehow Cuba is the real threat.
We gave billions of dollars to the Palestinians and Yassar Arafat stole it and still we give them money.
But nothing for Cuba.

Why can’t we just hold Cuba to the same strict standards that we use on other countries?

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