Updated at the bottom.
Attention leftists: hypocrisy is not a failure to live up to one’s own ideals. Hypocrisy is a willful professing of a belief, that one that does not truly believe. An outspoken Christian who commits adultery is not a hypocrite. An outspoken atheist who prays is a hypocrite. In today’s extended lesson Google must either accept that it is undermining the Internet, or be a hypocrite.
Exhibit A: Google supports ‘net neutrality’, a movement which began as an argument against ISPs selectively filtering traffic, which is a legitimate fear in the face of cable and phone companies trying for a “triple play” of television, phone, and Internet service. The idea is that if a Comcast or an AT&T degrade or prohibit the use of other firms’ phone and video services, then you will be forced to use their own. Google, the firm, professes to believe in opposing this tactic.
Exhibit B: Google is set to argue against Apple’s blocking of Google Voice from iPhones to the FCC. This is the Net Neutrality prediction in action. Apple conspires with AT&T to block the use of a third party’s phone service over AT&T’s Internet connection. Google, again, supports this belief in neutrality.
Exhibit C: Google blocks Skype from Android-based phones. This is anti-Net Neutrality in action. Google conspires with providers to block the use of a third party’s phone service over the provider’s data connection.
On the other hand, it gets worse for Google. In its defense, Google claims that T-Mobile didn’t request the block. That would work, except that it could only mean Google is attempting to fight the market advantage of Skype by blocking that competitor and bundling Google Voice with Android. In its attempt to avoid the Net Neutrality hypocrisy and FCC attention for its actions (which “do not stand up to scrutiny,” which is what Google Chief Internet Evangelist Vint Cerf said of all justifications for anti-Net Neutrality), Google confesses to doing what Microsoft was accused by the FTC of doing with its Internet Explorer and Windows releases against Netscape Navigator.
Steve Ballmer is laughing. So am I, only I’m laughing at all the people who pretend Google is anything friendly to ordinary Americans.
Update: Google has issued a rebuttal of the piece I linked to above, but they do not rebut my key point, which is that Google stands ready and willing to collaborate fully with anti-Net Netural policies of their business partners, even as they run to the State like good little fascists if their competitors try the same policies. They key quote is that “individual operators can request that certain applications be filtered if they violate their terms of service,” and in fact the T-Mobile terms of service are not net neutral, banning any uses not ‘explicitly permitted by your Data Plan,’ instead requiring you to use T-Mobile provided media options. Additionally, T-Mobile Germany has already banned Skype on the iPhone. So, of course T-Mobile USA is going to make the same ban, and according to Google’s own words, they will be complicit in that ban.
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Hold on, buddy, outspoken Christian who commits adultery IS a hypocrite!
Cheetah772 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 1:45PM EST (link)I’m not saying that I don’t agree with your whole article, just nitpicking on the opening paragraph of your article.
I do believe that an outspoken Christian who preaches that adultery is a sin, but commits adultery in secret is indeed a big-time hypocrite. I think that sentence needs to be reworded again, this time more correctly.
Again, as I said above, the rest of your article is fine by me. Just want to clear that up. Thanks.
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
How so?
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:01PM EST (link)Are you saying any Christian who isn’t perfect is a hypocrite? Because every Chrisitian I know believes that all men fall short of the standard.
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Neil, I don't think Cheetah was saying that a Christian
janis (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:08PM EST (link)who isn’t perfect is a hypocrite. He was saying for a Christian who is outspokenly against adultery but commits it anyway is no different than an atheist who prays in secret. Both people profess to believe one way, yet act against their stated beliefs in secret.
No practicing Christian could claim to be perfect.
Then that's a threadjack
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:17PM EST (link)I never said ‘outspoken against adultery.’ I said ‘outspoken Christian.”
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Neil, if you're an "outspoken Christian" then you
janis (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:34PM EST (link)are necessarily against adultery. As you are presumed to be for upholding all the Ten Commandments, not just the ones that you find easy to obey.
So how’s that a threadjack?
Hypocrisy is in the heart
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:59PM EST (link)If you do it anyway, and you know it’s wrong, then you’re holding yourself to the same standard to which you hold others.
If you do it anyway, and do it shamelessly, then you’re a hypocrite.
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No Christian can be perfect, but to preach against sin, and practice it in secret is big NO-NO
Cheetah772 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:15PM EST (link)God knows I’m not perfect, neither is anybody else for that matter. However, if I were to stand before the pulpit, preaching hard against reading porn magazines. But at home, there is a porn magazine hidden away under the mattress and taking pleasure in taking a look at is hypocritical.
In fact, it’s exactly the kind of attitude Christ was preaching against in the Chapter 7 of the Gospel of Matthew. Christ wasn’t saying that it was wrong of us to judge another, far from it, He was saying that it’s okay for us to judge, but only if we examined ourselves and kept ourselves clean to the best of our ability.
I don’t have a porn magazine, so I can preach against on that one. But I love playing computer games, and if I preached against playing computer games because it takes time away from God, then I am indeed wrong and displaying hypocritical attitude. Are you getting all of this? I hope you can understand what I am trying to say….
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
Cheetah
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:18PM EST (link)Ease up.
You’re completely changing around what I said by adding words.
I never said ‘in secret.’ You did.
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Neil, I respect you a lot, and let's face it, this is threadjack (my fault)
Cheetah772 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:25PM EST (link)Moreover, this is a conservative blog, so discussing on spiritual matters is probably not generally a good idea. I am mindful of that, so to that effect, all I can say is on this subject that we respectfully agree to disagree.
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
Mind if I email you? (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:27PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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No problem, don't know if you know my email address (assuming you can look it up via my account?)
Cheetah772 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:30PM EST (link)Go ahead.
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
Yeah I can look it up
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:30PM EST (link)The features that make banning easy also make looking up addresses easy.
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Thanks for emailing me, I just sent you an email...check it out...
Cheetah772 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:09PM EST (link)Sorry that it took me a while to get back to you. Somehow I felt I had to think it out carefully….Hehe….
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
Besides
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:19PM EST (link)Can’t a guy take a jab at militant anti-Christians in peace?
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Neil, permitted to add a thought?
penguin2 (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:38PM EST (link)Though discussion ended a while back…What I think you are saying is that if there is guilt involved for the “outspoken Christian” and he commits adultery, it is not hypocrisy. OTOH, if someone does or says one thing publicly and believes or practices something else, deliberately without guilt, then they are a hypocrite.
I think I got that whole concept down much easier than the Google stuff. Though, that’s all about trying to achieve dominance and monopolies with the Socialist government assistance.
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Oh we encourage thought around here
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 8:15PM EST (link)Yeah that’s basically what I’m saying.
The left has been pushing the theory that if you aren’t perfect according to the worldview you have, you are a hypocrite, which makes all Christians hypocrites, and in fact makes a hypocrite almost anyone who has any standards of behavior for humanity at all. Which is of course ridiculous and makes the world meaningless.
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For a Company...
mikefisk (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 1:45PM EST (link)…whose entire existence has been consumed by fear of being run into the ground by Microsoft, the odds that they’d become Microsoft once too big to digest were almost a certainty.
“Once within the maw of Leviathan, degree of digestion is irrelevant.” – Michael Fisk
9.25, -4.77
Google is an evil hypocrite
6eorge Jetson (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 1:46PM EST (link)nt
b-b-but they're so hip!
athelas (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 2:34PM EST (link)and trendy! Surely Google isn’t an EvilCorporation(TM)!
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We Want Net Neutrality
americanmale Sunday, August 23rd at 2:37PM EST (link)If net neutrality isn’t the law of the land, sites like redtate could cost more to view than dailykos. Not only can Internet Service Providers charge you for metered byte transfer, they can also charge you by the site you visit.
Just to give a basic example, look at this very page. On the right you will see ads which provide the much needed, well deserved revenue for redstate. Also look at the text content (posts, etc.) which is the primary draw for us, the users.
The reality is that under a non-net neutrality system, it will actually cost you more to download the ads to your screen then it will to view the actual textual content. The byte transfer is much bigger for images than it is for text.
Now imagine ATT, Verizon, etc. wanting a particular bill passed. If the dems are in control, they could shut the meter off for dailykos and keep the meter running for redstate.
Furthermore, they could do all sorts of nasty with the “fairness doctrine”. Unlike talk radio, we don’t skirt around the word republican. We don’t substitute “conservative” for “republican” to skirt any charges of fairness.
My vote is to get in bed with google; no matter how ugly she is. Heck, put a bag over her head and keep the lights down low if you must. Otherwise, we’ll be letting obama take over free speech much like private industry.
Depends on which one you mean
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:01PM EST (link)I DO NOT want the socialist Net Neutrality pushed by some, including Google, that would put state bureaucrats inc harge of our bills, and prohibiting ISPs from charging people for what they use, or from creating QoS tiers to give higher-paying customers higher priority for their traffic.
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Links...more reading??
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:07PM EST (link)Neil
This Net Neutrality issue is one that keeps popping up and I have never done much reading on the topic. So as a request have you got a link to where the issue is discussed in some detail, both the conservative and liberal sides of the issue?
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
Briefly
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:50PM EST (link)There are two net neutralities.
The first is the one I mentioned in my article, which is the original. There is broad, bipartisan support in technical communities for net neutrality. However there is the usual debate on whether it should be legislated on, or whether we as customers should band together and use our own market power to fight it (since after all, most of us have at least two providers to choose from).
This leads to thorny debates over franchise agreements, the role of the federal government in local telecom governance, and my view is this: Federal action is wrong. The states, however, should prohibit cities and counties from granting monopoly phone or cable service. Competition will fix it.
Just like competition in Dial-up Internet access made the market much cheaper. We went from expecting 5 free hours a month for $30, to expecting 200 free hours for for $20. And in fact the service I just cancelled after a year of use, was giving me unlimited access for $10.
However socialists are taking the term net neutrality and running in a different direction. Not only do they want legislation against the discrimination between services, but they want overall state control over pricing, and in fact state control over the entire infrastructure which firms have spent billions building. Here’s the socialist view. The key quote: “We want an Internet where you don’t have to have a password and that you don’t pay a penny to use. It is your right to use the Internet.”
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Thanks
SteveLA (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:59PM EST (link)Neil
Good recap and something to chew on a bit.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity and litmus tests
For the Left, is there ANYTHING that isn't a "right"?
janis (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:59PM EST (link)And who will be the internet service providers when it’s all free? Don’t tell me, let me guess. Ummmm…..The government?
If it is socialized, then it will be rationed? nt
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 4:01PM EST (link)not rationed...filtered is more like it...
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:27PM EST (link)n/t.
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
I was thinking regulated, so we agree, n'est pas? nt
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:29PM EST (link)well regulated... for sure...
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:46PM EST (link)but to distinguish…
Think modern day Iran…
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
No, in this case it's rationed, not regulated
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:20PM EST (link)Once the men in jackboots steal the Internet infrastruture For The Good of the People, nobody’s going to build any more infrastructure, let alone maintain what’s already there.
Result: As more people get online (because it’s “free” now, right?), the old, decaying system start to get overloaded.
Result: What you see on any freeway in southern California, only worse while freeways can’t drop cars, the Internet servers will start losing packets.
Result: rationing.
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Who will control the content and activity,
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:29PM EST (link)the profit or loss and the acess?
Never mind, I know. Barney and Chris.
I see it like this
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:33PM EST (link)The state didn’t ban sportscars in the 70s, but the weakness of our government made them impractical for most people once gas prices went way up.
Rationing of the Internet would do the same for most people’s ability to communicate over it.
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I dunno, Neil, 454 ci engines only making 200 hp
Achance (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:35PM EST (link)and skyrocketing insurance rates combined with ugly bumpers and static styling because all the investment in saftey and emissions compliance might have had something to do with it.
In Vino Veritas
No doubt, no doubt.
redneck_hippie (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:37PM EST (link)Government steps in and makes the whole system unworkable. As an added bonus, the rationing (limited access, if you will) combines with loss of profit motive to tank content quality.
I see where your coming from
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:54PM EST (link)but the analogy doesn’t fit Neil…
If we run out of electricity to the point that the internet has to be rationed then we have much worse problems than worrying about access to the internet…
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
I have a hard time imagining that....
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:50PM EST (link)You’re talking about reversing technology…
I don’t see it… you’ve got major players like Microsoft, Yahoo, hardware manufacturers and the businesses they support at an enterprise level… Dell, HP, IBM,… how about everyday portals and social networks… Ebay, Craigslist, MySpace, Facebook, Twitter?
For something like that to happen you would have to see Technology become obsolete in the life of the average American…
We’re talking something like a Solar flare from the Sun causing an EMP over North America that knocks out all modern forms of communication, and convenience… when Americans are desperate and seeking an end to street violence such as what happened during Katrina… only in mass scale that we give over our sovereignty to The UN temporarily with the President announcing some crisis of magnaminous proportion…
So Unless the jackboots are willing to point an EMP device at the infrastructure of America… then no I have a hard time buying your theory that the backbone of the internet becomes so old and decayed that the system gets overloaded…
If we get to that point… we’ve already become an outright Communist nation…
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
Yes, outright socialism
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 7:10PM EST (link)Did you *read* the article I linked to, that outlines the socialist position on the matter?
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I said outright Communism...
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 7:37PM EST (link)I don’t make the same leap as you… I agree its the same roadmap… but I suppose I don’t see the same vision happening without a statist controlled country.
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
Um...
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 7:44PM EST (link)They called for a 100% state takeover of the Internet in this country. Total state ownership. I don’t see how you can get more than that.
And Google is allying with these people, becasue obviously for Google it’s a benefit if people don’t have to pay to use bandwidth-intensive services like YouTube.
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calling for a takeover and accomplishing one are different...
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 8:15PM EST (link)Unlike a 100% Government takeover of the Healthcare industry… a 100% takeover of the infrastructure of the internet is highly unlikely…
as originally stated I see it more like “filtering” than rationing…
As for Google wanting to stop bandwidth intensive services… I think their focus is on increasing the bandwidth capacity of the average American… among all things that Google has their hands in, their number one contribution to their bank account is advertisements…
yes they make money on building marketing data and services to sell to other companies… but this too would require more not less traffic…
We’re just around the corner from 100GBoE becoming standard networking… the wiring and cabling from the backbone to the trunks to the providers…
There are WAAAAYYYY too many players in the free market that depend on internet services…
for Google to have any sort of ability to lobby that kind of action… no matter how many dollars they spend….
the Banks alone are going to shell out any dollars to some internet authority just so they can update their databases worldwide in their thousands of networks and forests…
but nevertheless… Google has just shown their true colors… which is what this post was about… I think you’re right… they’re hypocrites… They also want some love from an administration that thinks they have runaway power…
My only suggestion is that we have much bigger battles to fight before the internet becomes rationed… or even filtered… those steps come later… much later in the roadmap to socialism to communism…
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
should have known, something invented by algore would be easily twisted for profit
nessa (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 3:29PM EST (link)nt
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
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I am thoroughly confused.
muffin Sunday, August 23rd at 3:35PM EST (link)Is Net Neutrality good or bad? I’ve been reading the sites provided and others, but I still can’t wrap my brain around it. Are we going to be charged by the bytes we download? Is some committee going to say which sites we can visit and which we can’t? Someone please explain this to me in terms my feeble brain can understand. Thanks.
Fortitudine vincimus – By endurance we conquer
Depends. Yes. Maybe.
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 4:08PM EST (link)See this comment.
If monopoly or duopoly providers are left unchecked (and they may not be duopolies much longer after AT&T and Verizon deploy LTE next year), they could keep you from accessing competing services. So Comcast internet might keep you from seeing streaming video instead of paying them for a better Cable tier. Verizon internet may keep you from using Skype instead of paying them for phone service.
Net Neutrality is what we have if those companies don’t discriminate. That’s good. That’s what makes the Internet valuable: everyone is connected, regardless of from where they’re connecting. People on any ISP can see and communicate with anyone on any other ISP.
Democrats say the answer is to add more government. I say the answer is to remove the government monopoly grants that made it possible to begin with.
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It's a conundrum to say the least...
Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle) (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:43PM EST (link)I agree with you I think “original” net neutrality is a good thing… but I fear that as you stated above Neil… the socialists can smell blood in the water and see a well reasoned path to government intervention on behalf of “the people”…
Although I’m more inclined to let AT&T and Verizon develop as much technology as possible so others can replicate it. I’m not so worried that they are able to restrict access… I think consumers will teach them a lesson… ATT and Verizon(formerly MCI) learned hard lessons about “getting too big”… I would just as soon trust them to keep things competitive and open to the market and risk them blocking services that you would have to pay for as a premium than allow the government to step in and claim they are the police for net neutrality… The next thing you know Google is given a gun and a badge to become the sheriff of some bogus standard… that you’ll have to pay a premium in order to serve up customers…
It’s a sham either way… but I think I’d rather risk the business sense of ATT and Verizon over the business sense of socialists.
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. “ -James Madison
Thank you Neil. I think I understand now.
muffin Sunday, August 23rd at 4:10PM EST (link)I agree with you Janis. The left thinks everything is a right, not a privilege or something to be earned by working for it.
Fortitudine vincimus – By endurance we conquer
Muffin, there is a "Reply to This" button
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:21PM EST (link)on every comment. If you are replying to a specific comment it’s much easier to follow the thred if you use that button.
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muffin Sunday, August 23rd at 5:47PM EST (link)I read Neil’s response to SteveLA titled”Briefly” and that’s when I posted my thank you to Neil. After I posted, I found his response to me. Sorry for the confusion.
Fortitudine vincimus – By endurance we conquer
No problem. You're "new" here so I thought I'd
Brian Hibbert (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:03PM EST (link)mention the button. It was pretty easy to figure out where your replies were intended to go, but on bigger threads it gets hard to follow.
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Socialism doesn’t work. It looks nice on paper, but it’s been tried and it’s failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
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I'm always willing to learn new things. Thanks. nt
muffin Sunday, August 23rd at 6:14PM EST (link)Fortitudine vincimus – By endurance we conquer
Retraction by Google
athelas (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 4:34PM EST (link)Might want to link this to the main post.
http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2009/08/android-and-voip-applications.html
http://ssmag.wordpress.com
This actually makes more sense
athelas (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 4:39PM EST (link)“While individual operators can request that certain applications be filtered if they violate their terms of service”
This actually makes more sense because carriers, not Google, are the ones that eat the cost of free calls. So expect blocking from their end.
http://ssmag.wordpress.com
They're not free calls
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:17PM EST (link)You’re paying for a data plan. They want to be non-neutral in what can go over that data plan.
That’s the precise issue Net Neutrality movements were started over, and Google is complicit.
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Thanks (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 5:47PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Updated (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, August 23rd at 6:01PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
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Google lost its sheen in China
mallcopsaysno Sunday, August 23rd at 7:07PM EST (link)Becoming a partner in state-sponsored censorship is probably against the ideals of Net Neutrality too.
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