that they continue to vote once the time is up? It seems strange to me.

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how does that work? Is this a democracy? not in my opinion.

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MSNBC said that was Joe Barton (R-TX) asking the question. The lady at the chair had no clue what to say. Barney Frank shouted out “Regular order!” which was a signal to her to nix whatever it is Barton was trying to do, so she shut it down and moved on.

It was interesting that during the extended arm-twisting a few votes moved from yes to nay.

Nancy’s folks must be preparing her statement to say that it’s McCain’s fault that 95 or so Dems voted nay. It was something like 130-95 among the Dems, so they barely were in favor while the GOP came out 2-1 against it.

This bill was bad for the poeple and for once the Hse does it job and said no. More Dems vated against it the Rep voted for it. I’d say that is a BI-partiain rejection, period.
So what is plan B

At the same time I dislike the bill, but think the conseqeuences for the country could be worse if deflation happens.

Since we’d likely make a long-run profit, it wouldn’t be a debt-buster in the long run, so we could afford it.

And as far as government expansion, well, we’ve been dealing with that since 1933. Freedom would not suddenly go from living to dead after this. And if it’s true that Freddie and Fannie were a big part of this happening, then it’s not really a new intervention to begin with, now is it?

So I’ve reluctantly favored the Paulson plan.

Solely in terms of political consequences, isn’t that awfully bad for McCain? He positioned himself as riding to the rescue last week when it was on the ropes. If it fails, that will get spun as reflecting on his inability to lead.

n/p

Is the House simply saying to the almighty Senate, “You put your head on the block first?”

The Bailout/Rescue package failed. This is going to be a disaster. We are going to see an immediate negative economic impact. Expect a lot of banks to start failing very soon. Main Street businesses will soon follow suit.

This disaster is going to be hung around Republican necks for a generation. This is the worst possible outcome I can think of.

Yes, I’m a Fiscal Conservative, before people start hurling insults.

A pox on both parties. The democrats for causing this. And the Republicans for not finding a way to lead through this when they had the power.

There’s plenty of blame to go around. I don’t really know what else to say.

but would it really have been better to pass it? I personally feel that the republicans can no work on real legislation that will make a difference.

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as even when the dems go for a Bush plan, they still are a do-nothing congress??

Well, the problem is not housing, but too many years, too many entitlements, ‘..and giving too many hands up’, and I just guess they have pretty much Killed the Goose that lays the golden eggs.

I know they took the Acorn handout off the bill, but I am pretty sure Barney got them another one a while back, but I cant find any info on it…I’m still looking…

hopefully Sarah will be armed with heavy artillery on Thursday.

Dennis Miller hit it right on the head, on O’Reilly >”she is seriously in their heads, and is rolling around in Obama’s head like Thunder..”

Do you hear Bill Clinton? He is sticking it back to them, yayuh!

Dow -561.76

Bob

DJA down 467 right now. McCain is going to get the blame along the House Republicans.

This is now going to be THE media narrative between now and the election, and the Democrats are going to capitalize. After Obama wins and the Congress picks up all its extra seats, they will pass the socialist solution to modify our now failed capitalist system into the world-wide model of state run industry.

I expect the polls to show Obama up 10 by the end of the week. As I said last week, this election is over. We are going socialist.

Well, if the Russian economy collapses and takes the Russian government down with it, then it is going to become a little more difficult to keep track of Russia’s 5,000 plus ICBMs.

Keep in mind the new deal solutions of the last great depression haunt us today do we really want America to be paying the price for our mistakes 80 years from now?

for poisoning the waters and losing about a dozen “unpatriotic” votes from the GOP side.

The guts to say NO. This package represented the death of the free, private marketplace and NO hardship is worth giving up on capitalism.

I’m losing my *ss in the market right now and I’m smiling because I hope it won’t happen again in 10 years, as a post-bailout world would guarantee.

To those who would kill the patient to cure him – i.e., nationalizing the entire financial industry to save our 6.5% mortgages – I say fasten your seatbelts and welcome to a world with consequences, where mistakes are not so easily repeated.

I welcome it. I DEMAND it.

A vote in support of TARP would have been a vote for Socialism and a vote against Capitalism. The Democrat Party has a majority in Congress and can pass the bill witout Republican support.

The goal of the Democrats is not just to bail out Wallstreet and blame Capitalism in the process, but to get House Republicans to abandon their principles.

If a majority of Republicans votes would have put this bill over the top, I would have left the Republican Party forever and re-register as an Independent because if you won’t stand up for the most fundamental Conservative Principle of a free market economy…then I don’t know the Republican party anymore and it has abandoned me.

For a rational solution to the issue…read John P. Hussman PhD. He puts it in simplest of terms so even congress can understand it.

http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc080929.htm

The conservatives and McCain need to identify the perps and provide the free market conservative answer. Cap Gain elimination and tax breaks for investors.

Make George act like a conservative. Paulson should be fired he is at best incompetent and at worst a liberal plant.

…this thing failed? I thought it was something everyone could live with after the tweaks that were made over the weekend. It had taxpayer protection and 2 boards to oversee it. Why did the D’s kill it? It would have passed with more of their support.

What did she say?? I can already say that it doesn’t surprise me.

and absolutely ripped her a new one.

Saw Rep. Cantor on Fox, my first time hearing this guy, and I’m not ashamed to have a little man-love for this guy. No wonder folks mentioned him as a good candidate for VP!

had some guts to stand up to the fear mongers. I say way to go House!

Unless something changes drastically in the next 24 hours Barack Obama has just been elected 44th President of the United States.

We now have to hope that Bismark was right that “God watches out for fools, drunks, children and Americans.”

The old joke, “Don’t just do something! Stand there!” might not be a bad idea.

Skimming through commentary at the Wall Street Journal, I find no great panic. Many seem to think the bill will again be refocused more narrowly, and less expensively, on more average investors, and that the market might bring things into a clearer direction in a few more days.

To be sure, there were a few who were on the verge of conspiracy thinking with comments on Paulson and his unholy connections to Goldman Sachs, a firm which seems to be doing nicely right now, according to them.

But nobody was writing suicide notes and diving out the 50th-story window!

The truth there is no winning just degrees of losing we let the Dems grab us by the $alls so we really cant complain. The last great depression last about 5-10 years but government control of Wall St will last for centuries..

It’s time to get out there and name names, let the people know you stood by them in this.

There’s no reason to allow Pelosi or Reid any saving of face.

Show the people you had their backs on energy and the bailout !

There’s nothing to lose now, but everything to gain !

It’s time to get out there and name names, let the people know you stood by them in this.

There’s no reason to allow Pelosi or Reid any saving of face.

Show the people you had their backs on energy and the bailout !

There’s nothing to lose now, but everything to gain !

Watching donkeys and elephants trying to cohabitate would be high comedy indeed, if it weren’t that we’re at severe risk of getting crushed by the flailing limbs during their mating dance.

We are screwed! The party is doomed in November and probably for decades to come

I a very scared now. I think I may pull all my money out of stocks I can’t afford to lose all of it.

It’s the GOP’s fault, as the Dems acted in a bipartisan manner and did our part.

She says the Dems believed Paulson that this was a crisis and the Republicans must not be convinced, but the Dems continue to reach out in a bipartisan way as they always do.

She must have said “bipartisan” about 25 times. heh heh

The looks on the faces around her are awesome, compared to the guffaws coming from Frank and company earlier. Rahm Emmanuel looks like he’s ready to start crying.

Remember who controls the spin on these things – the MSM. You can bet (whatever’s left of) your personal fortune on this being pinned directly to the butts of the GOP. There is no way, NO WAY that the Dems will be perceived as responsible for this. McCain has already been successfully painted as Bush II(I) by the Obamedia. He will be the recipient of most of the ire about this financial situation.

Houston, we have a problem.

Did anyone notice the fine print in the Wachovia deal today? Seems Citi is on the hook for the first $42B in losses then the government covers the rest. Um, why are we doing that? Isn’t that even worse than this deal since at least we get an equity stake if things turn out OK and now we get nothing at all except huge downside risk?

Are we already potentially spending hundreds of Billions of dollars and we just don’t know it yet? These super-big banks are all going to be “too big to fail” now right? Isn’t this a bad plan? Not passing this deal is a mess. We are already on the hook for trillions if the housing market really collapses so I viewed this as government saving itself because we insure over half of all mortgages already so we have the most to loose is we get a large or long recession/depression.

On a political note. If suspending a campaign and calling off a debate was required last week should we expect to see McCain back in DC tomorrow? I thought he was an idiot for that stunt but I don’t see how he can not go back now after having said all the things he has… How can this not be seen as having painted himself into a box?

It is fantastic that over 120 House Republicans voted against their Leadership and voted For the American People. The facts are clear, the economy is in the tank, regardless of what happened today. If the House had voted to take 6 thousand dollars from every single Taxpayer in America and give it to Wall Street and Foreign Banks we still would’ve had a bad economy, but those guys would’ve had a REALLY soft landing while the rest of us suffered. Now they get to suffer with the rest of us, certainly they lived high on the hog during the good times, so its only fair.

As for this notion of Republicans getting ‘blamed’ for killing this bill, thats like saying Ronald Reagan got ‘blamed’ for killing the Soviet Union. Yeah, I guess the House GOP will just have to suffer with the public knowing they saved them 6 thousand dollars per taxpayer, and that they voted exactly the way the people wanted them to vote. They might even get ‘punished’ by the peolpe giving them control of Congress. Oh the calamity .

This is a great day to be a Republican, and a great day to be an American! If only McCain had taken a stand against this bill like the House GOP did he could’ve won the election right there. Instead he’s stuck having gone to Washington to work on a bill that the People hated, and he failed completely at passing it. He lost in every possible way because he failed to stand up on principle for the Taxpayers. Hopefully he can find a way out of the hole he dug himself into on this one. If not, hopefully Governor Palin can do it for him with a dominant Debate performance Thursday night.

keep in mind the Dems have been talking down the economy since the Reagan administration dont let them try to pin this on us..

If everyone is so worried about a crash why dont they suspend trading until this is resloved instead of standing back and watching.

they suspended trading on 9/11 it seems to me if they were really worried about a crash they would suspend trading..

The Corner reports that a dozen members of the Hispanic Caucus voted nay. Had they voted aye it would passed.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjFjZDg0ZWY2ZmVhOTJmNjIwY2UyYjc1OGFkNjgzNWQ=

but I didn’t think they were stupid enough to play chicken with the American economy.

Look, I think about this bill the same way Churchill once described democracy: it’s the worst option except for all the others. But we do have to stabilize Wall Street before the mudslide hits Main Street.

Obviously neither side was serious about getting this bill done, but it seems to me the Dems were less serious than the Republicans. If the Dems had been serious this would have been a narrowly tailored bill. It starts with the guts of the Paulson plan, even if they did pull the big number out of their a*, I mean the air. After that you amend it to add adequate oversight. You enter directly into negotiations with the minority party in numbers on par with their actual representation in the House, because you need their numbers to get it passed. A bill like this requires not a narrow victory but the sort of lopsided vote a CR gets, because that’s the only way both parties can engage in CYA and negate election affects. You work your hardest to keep the rest of the ornaments off the tree, because unlike the CR, ornaments on this tree are likely to cost votes instead of adding them. You leave the recriminations and the investigations until afterward, or at least in only the campaign speeches. Pelosi’s ham-fisted speech immediately before the vote on which she needed as many Republicans as she could get only underscores her complete inadequacy to lead the House. That wasn’t failing Politics 101, that was failing Politics 001. Barney Frank’s follow on about being “uncharacteristically nice” was just more gas on the fire. The average voter will get that. And the MSM will play the Frank line over and over again because they think it’s cute.

The DOW lost 700 points today. Gas is tough to buy in the South because the refineries haven’t started back up yet. We had a neighbor stop by and say they were running out of gas at stations in Frederick Maryland and we should make sure we keep tanked up when we can find it. I expect similar or bigger losses in the market tomorrow. It’s been a long time since the DOW has been under 10,000, and I’m starting to think dropping below 9,000 isn’t unrealistic before the next two weeks are finished. Right now people are still mad because the thieves got away with the money and their ain’t no way of getting it back in time to help. But soon they are going to start feeling the pain as the credit crunch really puts the hurt on the businesses that employ them. I don’t think I’d want to be a poll when that starts to happen.