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	<title>Comments on: Third Parties Are Not the Answer</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/</link>
	<description>Just another RedState: Where the VRWC Conspires Online weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Theo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-57</guid>
		<description>A good article that echoes my thoughts on third parties as well. The only thing it does not talk about that I would add is the role of &quot;third parties&quot; could be as &quot;extra voting slots&quot; for candidates of one of the two parties, so the local Libertarian (or Green, or Socialist, or Conservative, etc.) party could also list... the local Republican or Democrat candidate in their ballot slot. I, as a Libertarian, could vote for the candidate and let them know where their support was coming from (they could see what percentage of their votes came from which third party) and govern accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good article that echoes my thoughts on third parties as well. The only thing it does not talk about that I would add is the role of &#8220;third parties&#8221; could be as &#8220;extra voting slots&#8221; for candidates of one of the two parties, so the local Libertarian (or Green, or Socialist, or Conservative, etc.) party could also list&#8230; the local Republican or Democrat candidate in their ballot slot. I, as a Libertarian, could vote for the candidate and let them know where their support was coming from (they could see what percentage of their votes came from which third party) and govern accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: AceInTX</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>AceInTX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-56</guid>
		<description>I guess we could leave it to him/her to settle the issue as far as it goes but absent that by all means...let&#039;s leave the matter there...It&#039;s all good brotha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we could leave it to him/her to settle the issue as far as it goes but absent that by all means&#8230;let&#8217;s leave the matter there&#8230;It&#8217;s all good brotha!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-55</guid>
		<description>I just think you were seeing something that wasn&#039;t really there.  We can agree to disagree on that.  Trust me, if I thought neryun had implied what you got from it, I would have been on his butt.  But I think you know that.  ;^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just think you were seeing something that wasn&#8217;t really there.  We can agree to disagree on that.  Trust me, if I thought neryun had implied what you got from it, I would have been on his butt.  But I think you know that.  ;^)</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-54</guid>
		<description>But you have supported his line of thinking more than one on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you have supported his line of thinking more than one on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: TxCon</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>TxCon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-53</guid>
		<description>so try again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so try again.</p>
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		<title>By: AceInTX</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>AceInTX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-52</guid>
		<description>in fact I did it twice now...and this makes the third time. 

Listen, I know I&#039;ve rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with my constant and unrelenting battle against the people I believe are destroying my party and by extension my country by watering down what it means to be a first a Conservative, second a Republican and finally an American. 

the single point I objected to says to me this person, or if not him then he people he is talking about think Conservatives are only objecting to what was done in NY 23 because it was our ox being gored and we&#039;d be fine if it was 11 of our guys doing what they did as if there wasn&#039;t a more important underlying principle at stake here. 

That&#039;s what I went after above and I&#039;ll object to the same accusation being made the next time I see it because it has no basis in fact.

Keep in mind Aaron, I&#039;ve been at this for 20 plus years now...and during that time I&#039;ve seen arguments coalesce around certain assumptions...and I&#039;ve watched history being re-written....then the statements and assumptions get repeated to the point where it becomes conventional wisdom. All because those statements were allowed to be repeated unchallenged.

Examples:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress were solely responsible for the government shut downs in 1995. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

(never mind the fact that Bill Clinton was the person who wielded the veto pen that triggered the shut downs)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Republicans are racists. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Never mind that the Republican Party was the anti slavery party and was the deciding factor in passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964).

&lt;blockquote&gt;Bush caused the Crash of FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC,&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

(as if he hadn&#039;t tried three years to fix the problem and warned about what was coming only to have the very people who would later accuse him of the causing the problem hadn&#039;t stiff armed his attempts to fix it)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Rush Limbaugh want&#039;s Obama to fail. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

(As if he hasn&#039;t said time and time and time again that he want&#039;s Obama&#039;s policies to fail because they&#039;re bad for the country and not Obama himself)

&lt;blockquote&gt;AceInTx is attacking the Republican party all the time and that&#039;s all he does,&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

(when the fact is AceInTX attacks certain politicians in the party and the views they represent and AceInTX doesn&#039;t view Dede Scozzafava, Windsock Charlie Crist, Mark Crap and tax Kirk, or John I&#039;m a mavericky maverick McCain as being the entire Republican Party and as if AceInTX hasn&#039;t been active in Precinct, Senate and State conventions and actually worked to shape the party platform we&#039;re seeing trashed on a daily basis by our so called leadership)

Every one of these examples have legs because no one challenges the truth of those arguments....(I&#039;m doing the best to prove that last to be false)

I realize Erick promoted it which is the sole reason I read it. I really don&#039;t see what that has to do with anything. Unless I caused confusion in that I brought him up meaning to say he made NY23 a hill to die on because it was a way to send a message to the party without doing any REAL damage to the party....The point I intended to make but didn&#039;t finish is that I see that message being diluted by people on the establishment side of this arguement who are beginning to advance the meme that the Democrat won that seat because the Conservatives who backed Huffman were engaging in a civil war against the party and the whole fiasco is entirely the fault of conservatives as if the party never spent 2/3s of the $900,000 of every dime they wasted on this campaign attacking the Conservative and only 1/3 attacking the Democrat. Worse they&#039;re acting as if the &quot;Republican&quot; nominee hadn&#039;t endorsed the Democrat and encouraged her followers to vote for him. This piece doesn&#039;t do that...but it cuts a little closer than  I&#039;m comfortable with...mainly because of the statement we&#039;re discussing.

Finally, I know you care...and you above all others here I view as my ideological twin because I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever heard you say anything I disagree with when it comes to natural law, foreign policy, fiscal issues or anything else though stylistically and rhetorically I&#039;m far more blunt, abrasive, vocal, and single minded than you are so for what it&#039;s worth we have no problem here  and I hope you better understand my objection to that one statement and realize that one statement was reallize all there was to my objection</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in fact I did it twice now&#8230;and this makes the third time. </p>
<p>Listen, I know I&#8217;ve rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with my constant and unrelenting battle against the people I believe are destroying my party and by extension my country by watering down what it means to be a first a Conservative, second a Republican and finally an American. </p>
<p>the single point I objected to says to me this person, or if not him then he people he is talking about think Conservatives are only objecting to what was done in NY 23 because it was our ox being gored and we&#8217;d be fine if it was 11 of our guys doing what they did as if there wasn&#8217;t a more important underlying principle at stake here. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I went after above and I&#8217;ll object to the same accusation being made the next time I see it because it has no basis in fact.</p>
<p>Keep in mind Aaron, I&#8217;ve been at this for 20 plus years now&#8230;and during that time I&#8217;ve seen arguments coalesce around certain assumptions&#8230;and I&#8217;ve watched history being re-written&#8230;.then the statements and assumptions get repeated to the point where it becomes conventional wisdom. All because those statements were allowed to be repeated unchallenged.</p>
<p>Examples:</p>
<blockquote><p>Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress were solely responsible for the government shut downs in 1995. </p></blockquote>
<p>(never mind the fact that Bill Clinton was the person who wielded the veto pen that triggered the shut downs)</p>
<blockquote><p>Republicans are racists. </p></blockquote>
<p>(Never mind that the Republican Party was the anti slavery party and was the deciding factor in passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964).</p>
<blockquote><p>Bush caused the Crash of FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC,</p></blockquote>
<p>(as if he hadn&#8217;t tried three years to fix the problem and warned about what was coming only to have the very people who would later accuse him of the causing the problem hadn&#8217;t stiff armed his attempts to fix it)</p>
<blockquote><p>Rush Limbaugh want&#8217;s Obama to fail. </p></blockquote>
<p>(As if he hasn&#8217;t said time and time and time again that he want&#8217;s Obama&#8217;s policies to fail because they&#8217;re bad for the country and not Obama himself)</p>
<blockquote><p>AceInTx is attacking the Republican party all the time and that&#8217;s all he does,</p></blockquote>
<p>(when the fact is AceInTX attacks certain politicians in the party and the views they represent and AceInTX doesn&#8217;t view Dede Scozzafava, Windsock Charlie Crist, Mark Crap and tax Kirk, or John I&#8217;m a mavericky maverick McCain as being the entire Republican Party and as if AceInTX hasn&#8217;t been active in Precinct, Senate and State conventions and actually worked to shape the party platform we&#8217;re seeing trashed on a daily basis by our so called leadership)</p>
<p>Every one of these examples have legs because no one challenges the truth of those arguments&#8230;.(I&#8217;m doing the best to prove that last to be false)</p>
<p>I realize Erick promoted it which is the sole reason I read it. I really don&#8217;t see what that has to do with anything. Unless I caused confusion in that I brought him up meaning to say he made NY23 a hill to die on because it was a way to send a message to the party without doing any REAL damage to the party&#8230;.The point I intended to make but didn&#8217;t finish is that I see that message being diluted by people on the establishment side of this arguement who are beginning to advance the meme that the Democrat won that seat because the Conservatives who backed Huffman were engaging in a civil war against the party and the whole fiasco is entirely the fault of conservatives as if the party never spent 2/3s of the $900,000 of every dime they wasted on this campaign attacking the Conservative and only 1/3 attacking the Democrat. Worse they&#8217;re acting as if the &#8220;Republican&#8221; nominee hadn&#8217;t endorsed the Democrat and encouraged her followers to vote for him. This piece doesn&#8217;t do that&#8230;but it cuts a little closer than  I&#8217;m comfortable with&#8230;mainly because of the statement we&#8217;re discussing.</p>
<p>Finally, I know you care&#8230;and you above all others here I view as my ideological twin because I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever heard you say anything I disagree with when it comes to natural law, foreign policy, fiscal issues or anything else though stylistically and rhetorically I&#8217;m far more blunt, abrasive, vocal, and single minded than you are so for what it&#8217;s worth we have no problem here  and I hope you better understand my objection to that one statement and realize that one statement was reallize all there was to my objection</p>
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		<title>By: Rod_Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod_Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-51</guid>
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		<title>By: Aaron Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-50</guid>
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		<title>By: aesthete</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>aesthete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-49</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: Neil Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/2009/11/06/third-parties-are-not-the-answer/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/nedryun/?p=3#comment-48</guid>
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