I think I agree with what you’re saying, but I thought that Ronald Reagan fought hard against the creation of Medicare by calling it socialized medicine, and it was denounced by the American Medical Association and others.

If passed, a pledge to repeal ObamaCare would likely become the litmus test for GOP candidates- most people would be demanding it one would think

Everything I read is pretty gloomy.

Now people who used to say I was over -reacting are agreeing with me about the dangers of Obama.

You get at the heart what the Chicken Littles on our side miss – no program like this has even been passed in this way. No bill this massive, and this unpopular, has ever been passed AGAINST the wishes of the American people.

There is NO parallel to SS, Medicare or even the Great Society.

If, by some miracle, this passes (and I don’t really think it will), it will be repealed by a GOP Congress so fast everyone’s head’s will swim.

There will be a POPULAR MANDATE to do so. Even if Commie Obama attempted to veto an outright repeal (which would probably plunge his approval numbers into the 30s), there is very little he could do if a GOP House DEFUNDED the program. (What’s Obama going to do – shutdown the Government and deny seniors their Social Security checks to try and keep a single program afloat that 60% of the electorate HATES?! That would be a laugh!)

Zeroing out funding for a program basically makes it a ghost – it’s like it never existed. If all else failed, the GOP could do that, until they could pass a formal repeal after a GOP President is elected.

The Dems are kamikaze to even go forward with this at this point. But you can’t tell a Leftie when they’re being suicidal, I guess!…

But I think Moe is correct. WHEN we get the reins back we’ll simply point out the disaster on the horizon for seniors and others who will pay through the nose for reduced access and quality.

this Nobamacare has not passed, they simply do not have the votes. All these deadlines, we will pass this next week, no next week , no next week, if they had the votes why would they not pass it? Wisdom says if ya got it , do it, they don’t have it.

And so will the states. Ballot initiatives aimed at protecting the individual’s right to choose their own health care seem to be popping up everywhere. Just a quick google turned up proposals in Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Minnesota (really?), and I’m currently investigating what’s up in Michigan. Our filing deadline for legislative proposals is May 26, kind of tight if nothing is organized yet, but doable. Federalism just might be making a come back. It’s been noted elsewhere, this is a solid 10th amendment issue. The states are well within their rights to just say no to Obamacare.

Control of the House is essential. We can starve the program to oblivion if need be. The power of the purse is important. And the public will be on our side for this…we give them a choice of tax increases or health care, the debate will end quickly.

If the Dems decide to try reconciliation they will ensure a switch of the house to the Republicans. And probably loose at least two more senate seats.

But, I really think they don’t care anymore, they’ll do it anyway.

They are ” reasonably confident” they can pass the bill. I am clinging to the hope that democrat congresscritters will do the right thing. How is that for desparate?

A patent attorney/medical doctor (what a combo) was saying that many of her doctor clients were quitting their medical practice. She said the developers of meds were cutiing back to the bone in anticipation of ObamaCare.

The socialists realize the destruction that ObamaCare will bring and they are feeling fine. Now those of you looking for a qualified doctor that is still in business by 2012 may not feel so fine.

I wish I could share Lane’s optimism. The issue here is that for some reason beyond good sense, the leadership is still forcing healthcare onto the nation. They know something we don’t. They have gone beyond the “bluff” that federal politicians usually try in order to rope in weak-kneed pols like McCain and Snowe.

Can the Democratic leadership persuade enough selfish politicians to end their careers? That is the question and only the actions of the likes of Nelson and Lincoln will tell.

a) if they had the votes, they’d be in session at this moment passing the steaming pile; and,

b) legislation passed via reconciliation cannot be permanent in nature (that’s why it’s always been reserved for budgetary-type legislation). That is why the death tax ‘reform’ and Bush’s tax cuts are expiring in 2011. Not only will large chunks of this reform not even be *eligible* for reconciliation (and there better be GOP senators standing there with ‘point of order’ inquiries till the cows come home or November 2 which ever comes first), but even whatever *might* pass under reconciliation will by necessity have an expiration date.

We are not going to be able to get the same President to sign a bill that undoes all or some of the bill after he signs it into law and it will take supermajorities.

The moderate democrats are being purged and will be replaced by republicans in the next election. To overturn the health care bill we’d need a republican president and a fillibuster proof senate and that’s not easy to do. There aren’t going to be 10 moderate democrats left to sign on to a repeal, the only ones left will be liberals even if it’s in the low 40′s that’s still enough for a fillibuster.

All that being said I will not worry ab that right now bc I think reconciliation for a bill like this is not going to happen bc they don’t have the votes in the house. You are going to start hearing muttering from various factions in the house come out and say they can’t vote for the bill, it will only take a few but it will probably be several and that means it’s dead. Give it a couple weeks tops.

because all that kicks in immediately is the fees, taxes, and surcharges that are needed up front for several years so the Dems. could lie and say the costs wouldn’t bankrupt the nation, when even though there are 3-4 years of accumulated revenues/payments ahead of time, even the CBO has always come close to $1 trillion in the first years, no matter how the numbers are finagled. Medicare was underestimated by 9 times within three years of its operation and has done nothing but increase ever since.

Therefore, voters will not immediately see any positive results they might somehow like and appreciate after the bill(s) passes, so they’ll forget the Dems. acted in deliberate, arrogant, sneering, intransigent denial of the people’s will and fall in love with the total invasion of the most personal aspects of their lives by the federal gov’t.

And no bill/law can commit a future Cong. not to change law, ergol the touted idea that once O’care passes no one can change the law in the future is a lie.

Not unless they get enough seats in both houses to override Obama’s vetoes they won’t, and that is not mathematically possible next November as only 1/3 of the Senate is up for reelection.

The first real crack the repubs are going to get at CommieCare will not come until January of 2013 (almost three years from now), and then only if they don’t manage to screw things up and get blown out in the 2012 election.

Given the total lack of leadership that is still present in the GOP just nine months out from a midterm election, one that is quite possibly the most important in our nation’s history, I am not exactly optimistic.

If this hideous thing does manage to become law, it will be so bureaucratically entrenched by 2013 a track-hoe the size of Mt. Fuji will be unable to rip it out.

-Dave

I recall reading, in either the House or Senate version of the healthcare bill, language that said that it would be irrevocable and that it couldn’t be repealled once it was passed. Unfortunately, I can’t find that now (and if you know where it was, please let me know), but that seems childish as well as unconstitutional, as I see it.

Tied up in court for a while if it passes. There’s a lot in it that doesn’t pass the constitutional test if you ask me.

I’m still scared to death of it. I think this is O’s way of attacking the older citizens who are the most likely to vote against his Utopian plans.

It’s a bit too soon to tell, so I give it at least a 50/50 chance. I suspect the house will need the reconciliation bill modifying the Senate bill (a sort of “trigger” mechanism) to be fully voted on before they vote for the Senate bill.

If such a bill ever comes out, then I would guess passage is inevitable. The solution, as I’ve said before, is for all of us to commit to not buying or accepting anything called health insurance or paying the fines. Do note that the senate version bars the federal government from doing anything to those who fail to pay fines.