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	<title>Comments on: Thank God Joe Biden was at the beer summit.</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/</link>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19992</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19992</guid>
		<description>As for my possibly being a public school teacher, don&#039;t worry--my wife and I are about to begin our 19th year of home-schooling!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for my possibly being a public school teacher, don&#8217;t worry&#8211;my wife and I are about to begin our 19th year of home-schooling!</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19943</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19943</guid>
		<description>I really didn&#039;t mean to accuse you of running our country into the ground.  Sorry, sometimes I get a little worked up over this stuff.  

Now, my original response began with the words, &quot;The office of the POTUS deserves respect...&quot;  I am all for a more respectful and civil society.  Don&#039;t read me wrong here.  But slowly and surely, our civil servants are becoming our uncivil masters in many areas, or at least they think they are.  Also, many of our more unsophisticated citizens have come to believe that out government rules us, rather than governs us.  I simply don&#039;t wish to throw any fuel on that fire.

Furthermore, I hold the tteachers unions to account for producing such an unaware and unschooled populace.  Many people cannot place WWII in the right century.  And US kids are just as smart as other kids in the 3rd or 4th grades.  However, by the time they finish high school, they are scoring below students in such countries as Sri Lanka and Mozambique.  And we spend as much or more money per student as any school system in the world.

And if you are or know a public school teacher, don&#039;t take offense.  My mother, aunt, cousins and many friends are teachers.  There are mant dedicated and skillful public school teachers.  For the most part, it&#039;s not the teachers, it&#039;s the system...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really didn&#8217;t mean to accuse you of running our country into the ground.  Sorry, sometimes I get a little worked up over this stuff.  </p>
<p>Now, my original response began with the words, &#8220;The office of the POTUS deserves respect&#8230;&#8221;  I am all for a more respectful and civil society.  Don&#8217;t read me wrong here.  But slowly and surely, our civil servants are becoming our uncivil masters in many areas, or at least they think they are.  Also, many of our more unsophisticated citizens have come to believe that out government rules us, rather than governs us.  I simply don&#8217;t wish to throw any fuel on that fire.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I hold the tteachers unions to account for producing such an unaware and unschooled populace.  Many people cannot place WWII in the right century.  And US kids are just as smart as other kids in the 3rd or 4th grades.  However, by the time they finish high school, they are scoring below students in such countries as Sri Lanka and Mozambique.  And we spend as much or more money per student as any school system in the world.</p>
<p>And if you are or know a public school teacher, don&#8217;t take offense.  My mother, aunt, cousins and many friends are teachers.  There are mant dedicated and skillful public school teachers.  For the most part, it&#8217;s not the teachers, it&#8217;s the system&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19930</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19930</guid>
		<description>nt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nt</p>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19929</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19929</guid>
		<description>I have very little disagreement with your breakdown of the issue of obedience viewed from within the Constitution; I thought I had given enough indicators that I was speaking from a more fundamental set of assumptions.

Analogously, while our legislation attempts to keep me from doing my neighbor minimal harm, and in certain areas attempts to extra from me provision for my neighbor&#039;s (and my common) good, I am fully aware that it commands neither me nor my neighbor to love each other.

Yet we are in fact so commanded.

As an aside, I have never been credited with such influence as you have by saying &quot;(my) point of view is the reason or (sic) country has reached such a sorry state.&quot; Thanks for according that dubious honor to little old me!

Not sure I readily can see exactly how we have been suffering from a surfeit of godly obedience to authority, though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have very little disagreement with your breakdown of the issue of obedience viewed from within the Constitution; I thought I had given enough indicators that I was speaking from a more fundamental set of assumptions.</p>
<p>Analogously, while our legislation attempts to keep me from doing my neighbor minimal harm, and in certain areas attempts to extra from me provision for my neighbor&#8217;s (and my common) good, I am fully aware that it commands neither me nor my neighbor to love each other.</p>
<p>Yet we are in fact so commanded.</p>
<p>As an aside, I have never been credited with such influence as you have by saying &#8220;(my) point of view is the reason or (sic) country has reached such a sorry state.&#8221; Thanks for according that dubious honor to little old me!</p>
<p>Not sure I readily can see exactly how we have been suffering from a surfeit of godly obedience to authority, though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19917</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19917</guid>
		<description>&quot;We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.&quot; 
Abraham Lincoln</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.&#8221;<br />
Abraham Lincoln</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19918</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19918</guid>
		<description>&quot;We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.&quot; 
Abraham Lincoln</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.&#8221;<br />
Abraham Lincoln</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19916</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19916</guid>
		<description>authority over the military and federal employees.  The average citizen does not owe obedience to the President or to the military or to officials of the federal govt unless codified by law in direct execution of their official duties, e.g. the FBI, the IRS, etc..  The POTUS owes obedience to us since he is (supposedly) our representative and they are our civil servants (this is a quaint sounding phrase precisely because of the widespread belief that we owe them &quot;obedience&quot;.)  A time of war may mitigate that somewhat, but only insofar as we owe our country allegience which is personified in such times by the POTUS and other govt reps like the draft board.

Sgt. Crowley had every right in the world to refuse to meet with the president, as many others have done before him.  I agree it was likely far wiser for him to assent to the invitation, but not required.  Whether or not that might have &quot;ultimately undercut&quot; his authority is academic at best.  If he meets you on the street while carrying out his duties as a police officer, and he orders you to do something, you are responsible to obey him whether he posed for a photo op or not.   

So far as I know, we still do not live in a police state.  I can refuse an invitation from ANY elected official.  They work for us.  I&#039;m afraid your point of view is the reason or country has reached such a sorry state.   Citizen obedience to the military is a feature of Daniel Ortega&#039;s Nicaragua and other banana republics, not the United States.  We&#039;re not there-----yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>authority over the military and federal employees.  The average citizen does not owe obedience to the President or to the military or to officials of the federal govt unless codified by law in direct execution of their official duties, e.g. the FBI, the IRS, etc..  The POTUS owes obedience to us since he is (supposedly) our representative and they are our civil servants (this is a quaint sounding phrase precisely because of the widespread belief that we owe them &#8220;obedience&#8221;.)  A time of war may mitigate that somewhat, but only insofar as we owe our country allegience which is personified in such times by the POTUS and other govt reps like the draft board.</p>
<p>Sgt. Crowley had every right in the world to refuse to meet with the president, as many others have done before him.  I agree it was likely far wiser for him to assent to the invitation, but not required.  Whether or not that might have &#8220;ultimately undercut&#8221; his authority is academic at best.  If he meets you on the street while carrying out his duties as a police officer, and he orders you to do something, you are responsible to obey him whether he posed for a photo op or not.   </p>
<p>So far as I know, we still do not live in a police state.  I can refuse an invitation from ANY elected official.  They work for us.  I&#8217;m afraid your point of view is the reason or country has reached such a sorry state.   Citizen obedience to the military is a feature of Daniel Ortega&#8217;s Nicaragua and other banana republics, not the United States.  We&#8217;re not there&#8212;&#8211;yet.</p>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19902</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19902</guid>
		<description>of dispersed authority in a constitutional republic, but if as you say the President has authority over the Federal government and the military, then the obedience owed by citizens to those arms of the government is ultimately owed to the President.

Back to Scope&#039;s use of &quot;the proper respect for authority&quot;, had Crowley refused the invite for any reasons other than conscience in light of a clear law of God, that refusal would have ultimately undercut his own delegated authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>of dispersed authority in a constitutional republic, but if as you say the President has authority over the Federal government and the military, then the obedience owed by citizens to those arms of the government is ultimately owed to the President.</p>
<p>Back to Scope&#8217;s use of &#8220;the proper respect for authority&#8221;, had Crowley refused the invite for any reasons other than conscience in light of a clear law of God, that refusal would have ultimately undercut his own delegated authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod_Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19901</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod_Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19901</guid>
		<description>I promised myself not to say bad words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I promised myself not to say bad words.</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19900</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19900</guid>
		<description>Sgt Crowley--if he goes he&#039;s a stooge and if he doesn&#039;t he&#039;s a racist.  It&#039;s all a huge waste of time.  

Maybe the up side of NObama&#039;s administration is that after four years of this nonesense no one will believe politically motivated cries of &quot;racism&quot; anymore.  Godspeed the day...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sgt Crowley&#8211;if he goes he&#8217;s a stooge and if he doesn&#8217;t he&#8217;s a racist.  It&#8217;s all a huge waste of time.  </p>
<p>Maybe the up side of NObama&#8217;s administration is that after four years of this nonesense no one will believe politically motivated cries of &#8220;racism&#8221; anymore.  Godspeed the day&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19899</link>
		<dc:creator>Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19899</guid>
		<description>of the POTUS deserves respect, but certaimly not obedience from anyone not under his authority, which is anyone not in the Fed govt or military.  For crying out loud, the man works for US.  He is OUR employee.  WE hired him....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>of the POTUS deserves respect, but certaimly not obedience from anyone not under his authority, which is anyone not in the Fed govt or military.  For crying out loud, the man works for US.  He is OUR employee.  WE hired him&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: blooch</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19874</link>
		<dc:creator>blooch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19874</guid>
		<description>Sergeant Crawley should have brought a pack of Marlboros and laid it on the table, just to see Obama sweat bullets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sergeant Crawley should have brought a pack of Marlboros and laid it on the table, just to see Obama sweat bullets.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod_Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19870</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod_Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19870</guid>
		<description>Crowley had to leave his firearms in attending this VERY IMPORTANT PHOTO-OP.

And for what?  To Get drunk between two bullies who have subtle (if not obvious) anger/animosity against his kind (read: color)? Crowley&#039;s not a fool.

Thanks to VP Biden.  He&#039;s useful in this case.   A very useful tool, in fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crowley had to leave his firearms in attending this VERY IMPORTANT PHOTO-OP.</p>
<p>And for what?  To Get drunk between two bullies who have subtle (if not obvious) anger/animosity against his kind (read: color)? Crowley&#8217;s not a fool.</p>
<p>Thanks to VP Biden.  He&#8217;s useful in this case.   A very useful tool, in fact.</p>
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		<title>By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19869</link>
		<dc:creator>CincoSolas_del_Bronx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19869</guid>
		<description>The office, and yes, by virtue of this strange conservative doctrine of federal headship, the person holding the office as well, does indeed deserve respect, honor and, subject to the law of God in particulars, the obedience of those under his authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The office, and yes, by virtue of this strange conservative doctrine of federal headship, the person holding the office as well, does indeed deserve respect, honor and, subject to the law of God in particulars, the obedience of those under his authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Scope</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19867</link>
		<dc:creator>Scope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19867</guid>
		<description>Otherwise white Crawley would have looked outgunned.  I can&#039;t wait to hear Bidens comments on the beer summit, he never lets down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otherwise white Crawley would have looked outgunned.  I can&#8217;t wait to hear Bidens comments on the beer summit, he never lets down.</p>
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		<title>By: Scope</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19868</link>
		<dc:creator>Scope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19868</guid>
		<description>Otherwise white Crawley would have looked outgunned.  I can&#039;t wait to hear Bidens comments on the beer summit, he never lets down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otherwise white Crawley would have looked outgunned.  I can&#8217;t wait to hear Bidens comments on the beer summit, he never lets down.</p>
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		<title>By: Scope</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19865</link>
		<dc:creator>Scope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19865</guid>
		<description>but, after seeing his presser after the beer fest, I like him even more.  Had he not gone, he would have been looked at as being stubborn,  a racist, and not showing the proper respect for authority (though Obama doesn&#039;t deserve respect).  He was very much in command of the presser, answered the press questions with authority and intelligence, and displayed leadership.  I loved when he said that he and Gates agreed to disagree.  I think that showed that Gates is the racist, and, he is unwilling to change his ways/views on profiling. Crawley didn&#039;t back down and allow himself to be the stooge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but, after seeing his presser after the beer fest, I like him even more.  Had he not gone, he would have been looked at as being stubborn,  a racist, and not showing the proper respect for authority (though Obama doesn&#8217;t deserve respect).  He was very much in command of the presser, answered the press questions with authority and intelligence, and displayed leadership.  I loved when he said that he and Gates agreed to disagree.  I think that showed that Gates is the racist, and, he is unwilling to change his ways/views on profiling. Crawley didn&#8217;t back down and allow himself to be the stooge.</p>
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		<title>By: Scope</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19866</link>
		<dc:creator>Scope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19866</guid>
		<description>but, after seeing his presser after the beer fest, I like him even more.  Had he not gone, he would have been looked at as being stubborn,  a racist, and not showing the proper respect for authority (though Obama doesn&#039;t deserve respect).  He was very much in command of the presser, answered the press questions with authority and intelligence, and displayed leadership.  I loved when he said that he and Gates agreed to disagree.  I think that showed that Gates is the racist, and, he is unwilling to change his ways/views on profiling. Crawley didn&#039;t back down and allow himself to be the stooge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but, after seeing his presser after the beer fest, I like him even more.  Had he not gone, he would have been looked at as being stubborn,  a racist, and not showing the proper respect for authority (though Obama doesn&#8217;t deserve respect).  He was very much in command of the presser, answered the press questions with authority and intelligence, and displayed leadership.  I loved when he said that he and Gates agreed to disagree.  I think that showed that Gates is the racist, and, he is unwilling to change his ways/views on profiling. Crawley didn&#8217;t back down and allow himself to be the stooge.</p>
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		<title>By: TNJim</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19863</link>
		<dc:creator>TNJim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19863</guid>
		<description>Would Obama still be able to say something like what he said after yesterday&#039;s &quot;beer summit&quot;?

&lt;blockquote&gt;I have always believed that what brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If he really believes that he could also invite Limbaugh and Levin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would Obama still be able to say something like what he said after yesterday&#8217;s &#8220;beer summit&#8221;?</p>
<blockquote><p>I have always believed that what brings us together is stronger than what pulls us apart.</p></blockquote>
<p>If he really believes that he could also invite Limbaugh and Levin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AceInTX</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/30/thank-god-joe-biden-was-at-the-beer-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-19858</link>
		<dc:creator>AceInTX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3918#comment-19858</guid>
		<description>He seems to have it together though...and I&#039;d like to know more about Sgt Lashley because he seems like he&#039;s got it going on where it counts in this case!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He seems to have it together though&#8230;and I&#8217;d like to know more about Sgt Lashley because he seems like he&#8217;s got it going on where it counts in this case!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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