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	<title>Comments on: USPS at risk at not making payroll?</title>
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		<title>By: kaedryl</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19169</link>
		<dc:creator>kaedryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19169</guid>
		<description>A little background:

I&#039;m from a USPS family.  My grandfather was a postmaster for 30 years, my grandmother a clerk for 20.  My mother and her husband also both postmasters, working 20 years for the USPS.  3 years ago at age 54 and 51 my mother and her husband both retired, having put in the require 20 years.  This means for the next 30 odd years they&#039;ll be living off their pensions and enjoying the USPS&#039;s insane health plan (when I was in HS, I know the monthly cost was $12, not sure what it is now but  its undoubtly inexpensive.)

This is what&#039;s breaking the USPS as well as most government jobs - the 20 year career.  Get a govt job, put in 20 years, retire with a guaranteed pension and health plan.  My brother is with Borders and Customs, and he&#039;s already counting down his 20.  With rare exceptions, nowhere in the public sector will you find someone putting in 20 years then retiring at 52.  Both my mother and her husband are in excellent health and they&#039;re actually busier now than when employed.  Both could have easily worked another 10-15 years, which would have allowed them to continue to contribute into the system vs just living off it. Instead their taking advantage of the offered early out and took it.

This work 20 yrs and then live off pension is one of the reasons govt agencies are bottomless pits.  In the past with short lifespans they may have been sustainable, but now that people are living into their 80s or longer, it&#039;s bankrupting the system.    Perhaps that&#039;s how obamacare is going to help fix the problem...once you get past 72, you simply won&#039;t receive life sustaining care...

And to answer the coming question, I broke the generational pattern, became an MD (pediatrics)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little background:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m from a USPS family.  My grandfather was a postmaster for 30 years, my grandmother a clerk for 20.  My mother and her husband also both postmasters, working 20 years for the USPS.  3 years ago at age 54 and 51 my mother and her husband both retired, having put in the require 20 years.  This means for the next 30 odd years they&#8217;ll be living off their pensions and enjoying the USPS&#8217;s insane health plan (when I was in HS, I know the monthly cost was $12, not sure what it is now but  its undoubtly inexpensive.)</p>
<p>This is what&#8217;s breaking the USPS as well as most government jobs &#8211; the 20 year career.  Get a govt job, put in 20 years, retire with a guaranteed pension and health plan.  My brother is with Borders and Customs, and he&#8217;s already counting down his 20.  With rare exceptions, nowhere in the public sector will you find someone putting in 20 years then retiring at 52.  Both my mother and her husband are in excellent health and they&#8217;re actually busier now than when employed.  Both could have easily worked another 10-15 years, which would have allowed them to continue to contribute into the system vs just living off it. Instead their taking advantage of the offered early out and took it.</p>
<p>This work 20 yrs and then live off pension is one of the reasons govt agencies are bottomless pits.  In the past with short lifespans they may have been sustainable, but now that people are living into their 80s or longer, it&#8217;s bankrupting the system.    Perhaps that&#8217;s how obamacare is going to help fix the problem&#8230;once you get past 72, you simply won&#8217;t receive life sustaining care&#8230;</p>
<p>And to answer the coming question, I broke the generational pattern, became an MD (pediatrics)</p>
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		<title>By: The_Gadfly</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19164</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Gadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19164</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;ve taken some classes with some USPS workers, and some of them are pretty smart and decent workers. But I&#039;m not all that convinced the &quot;union&quot; is separate from &quot;management&quot; in this case, and that&#039;s a bad thing.

As for the retirement age, the answer is that it&#039;s been government&#039;s attempt to establish social policy, same as most other labor laws. When it was originally set, it wasn&#039;t actually much of a problem. Odds of living to 65 were small, and the costs were spread out amongst lots and lots of people. I think I&#039;ve seen figures of as high as 50 workers to 1 retiree, but even recently it was 20 workers to 1 retiree (Social Security, which uses the retirement age to start dispensing benefits). Properly calculated and managed, a pension isn&#039;t necessarily a bad thing. But both of those need to be true and in the last 20 years or so we seem to have been bad at dealing with both of those necessary parts. To match the same relative point on the lifespan curve, retirement now would need to be well into late 70s-ish, possibly even early 80s. I&#039;m not sure we get out of the current mess without tweaking that.

Personally, I prefer the self-funded retirement plans (IRA, 401(k), 403(b), etc.). Ideally I&#039;d like to see the required retirement age go away completely, and you are eligible to start drawing on your retirement funds after something in the 68-72 range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;ve taken some classes with some USPS workers, and some of them are pretty smart and decent workers. But I&#8217;m not all that convinced the &#8220;union&#8221; is separate from &#8220;management&#8221; in this case, and that&#8217;s a bad thing.</p>
<p>As for the retirement age, the answer is that it&#8217;s been government&#8217;s attempt to establish social policy, same as most other labor laws. When it was originally set, it wasn&#8217;t actually much of a problem. Odds of living to 65 were small, and the costs were spread out amongst lots and lots of people. I think I&#8217;ve seen figures of as high as 50 workers to 1 retiree, but even recently it was 20 workers to 1 retiree (Social Security, which uses the retirement age to start dispensing benefits). Properly calculated and managed, a pension isn&#8217;t necessarily a bad thing. But both of those need to be true and in the last 20 years or so we seem to have been bad at dealing with both of those necessary parts. To match the same relative point on the lifespan curve, retirement now would need to be well into late 70s-ish, possibly even early 80s. I&#8217;m not sure we get out of the current mess without tweaking that.</p>
<p>Personally, I prefer the self-funded retirement plans (IRA, 401(k), 403(b), etc.). Ideally I&#8217;d like to see the required retirement age go away completely, and you are eligible to start drawing on your retirement funds after something in the 68-72 range.</p>
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		<title>By: The_Gadfly</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19163</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Gadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19163</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: techsan</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19160</link>
		<dc:creator>techsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19160</guid>
		<description>This is a key point I try to drive home with friends.  Congress is doing this...they write the laws...they&#039;ve been &quot;D&quot; since 2007.  Blame Bush crap ignores this inconvenient truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a key point I try to drive home with friends.  Congress is doing this&#8230;they write the laws&#8230;they&#8217;ve been &#8220;D&#8221; since 2007.  Blame Bush crap ignores this inconvenient truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Solomon</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19157</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19157</guid>
		<description>I have this bizarre notion that I&#039;d like my &quot;sends&quot; to arrive at their intended destination within a reasonable amount of time and intact...... especially international shipments (which have to go through Customs anyway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have this bizarre notion that I&#8217;d like my &#8220;sends&#8221; to arrive at their intended destination within a reasonable amount of time and intact&#8230;&#8230; especially international shipments (which have to go through Customs anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Lammo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19156</link>
		<dc:creator>Lammo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19156</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pomme</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19154</link>
		<dc:creator>Pomme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19154</guid>
		<description>do I want this administration to make Kevin Freakin Costner look good!

Ever!

Seriously though, if I only received mail once a week, I&#039;d be OK with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>do I want this administration to make Kevin Freakin Costner look good!</p>
<p>Ever!</p>
<p>Seriously though, if I only received mail once a week, I&#8217;d be OK with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Darin_H</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19153</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin_H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19153</guid>
		<description>They should immediately end Saturday service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should immediately end Saturday service.</p>
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		<title>By: Menlo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19152</link>
		<dc:creator>Menlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19152</guid>
		<description>Not all of us are willing to trust or join the crowd on the wonders of online, &quot;electronic,&quot; or automated bill-paying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all of us are willing to trust or join the crowd on the wonders of online, &#8220;electronic,&#8221; or automated bill-paying.</p>
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		<title>By: bobojake</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19151</link>
		<dc:creator>bobojake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19151</guid>
		<description>Washington DC, obama, Senators and Congressman smell like the basement of an outhouse in 100 degree heat on the 4th of July.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Washington DC, obama, Senators and Congressman smell like the basement of an outhouse in 100 degree heat on the 4th of July.</p>
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		<title>By: bobojake</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19150</link>
		<dc:creator>bobojake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19150</guid>
		<description>How many obama  train wrecks can we stand??????????????????????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many obama  train wrecks can we stand??????????????????????</p>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19141</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19141</guid>
		<description>just wait.

Every city and county in the state has seriously underfunded - or unfunded - pensions.  The cities and counties have been buying off their employees with fat pension deals and just kicking the can down the road.  There&#039;s an unfunded liability there - and I don&#039;t know exactly what the number is - that will make the measly $50B or so that they&#039;re in the hole now look like the good times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just wait.</p>
<p>Every city and county in the state has seriously underfunded &#8211; or unfunded &#8211; pensions.  The cities and counties have been buying off their employees with fat pension deals and just kicking the can down the road.  There&#8217;s an unfunded liability there &#8211; and I don&#8217;t know exactly what the number is &#8211; that will make the measly $50B or so that they&#8217;re in the hole now look like the good times.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19140</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19140</guid>
		<description>I work for a company that is on contract for the IT needs of USPS.  Although I am fairly secure in my position that isn&#039;t true for all.  I am certainly not a fan of bailouts, but we all know that is precisely what will happen.  If it weren&#039;t to happen there would be layoffs, which would exacerbate an already unstable economy.  Oh and Obama doesn&#039;t know how to do anything other than spend other people&#039;s money on crap they don&#039;t want and more importantly don&#039;t need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work for a company that is on contract for the IT needs of USPS.  Although I am fairly secure in my position that isn&#8217;t true for all.  I am certainly not a fan of bailouts, but we all know that is precisely what will happen.  If it weren&#8217;t to happen there would be layoffs, which would exacerbate an already unstable economy.  Oh and Obama doesn&#8217;t know how to do anything other than spend other people&#8217;s money on crap they don&#8217;t want and more importantly don&#8217;t need.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheetah772</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19139</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheetah772</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19139</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think USPS is the real problem, it&#039;s unions, which is the real issue here.

Stop permitting unions to have so much power over the management, then the actual cost of running the agency will come down.  We have all safety and labor laws in place, so why do we need unions?

Besides, there is one question I&#039;d like to ask of you all here.  Why do we set the retirement age?  Wouldn&#039;t it be more prudent just to let employees work until they drop dead?  After all, if Supreme Court Justices can have a lifetime appointment, then I don&#039;t see any reason to prevent an ordinary employee from working as long he or she can until no longer fit to perform the duties on the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think USPS is the real problem, it&#8217;s unions, which is the real issue here.</p>
<p>Stop permitting unions to have so much power over the management, then the actual cost of running the agency will come down.  We have all safety and labor laws in place, so why do we need unions?</p>
<p>Besides, there is one question I&#8217;d like to ask of you all here.  Why do we set the retirement age?  Wouldn&#8217;t it be more prudent just to let employees work until they drop dead?  After all, if Supreme Court Justices can have a lifetime appointment, then I don&#8217;t see any reason to prevent an ordinary employee from working as long he or she can until no longer fit to perform the duties on the job.</p>
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		<title>By: septembergurl</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19138</link>
		<dc:creator>septembergurl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19138</guid>
		<description>&#039;The best case scenario would be that the pensioner dies early.&#039;

I think this is where Obamacare comes in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;The best case scenario would be that the pensioner dies early.&#8217;</p>
<p>I think this is where Obamacare comes in.</p>
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		<title>By: NeoKong</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19137</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoKong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19137</guid>
		<description>The USPS wouldn&#039;t be the first organization to be brought down by pension funds.  All pension funds will eventually fail as the number of retirees always will grow faster than the number of workers that replace them.  How can you give a worker more money and benefits after they retire than before they retire?
Every time a worker retires and is replaced by someone new you now have a situation where two salaries are now being paid for the same job.
The best case scenario would be that the pensioner dies early.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The USPS wouldn&#8217;t be the first organization to be brought down by pension funds.  All pension funds will eventually fail as the number of retirees always will grow faster than the number of workers that replace them.  How can you give a worker more money and benefits after they retire than before they retire?<br />
Every time a worker retires and is replaced by someone new you now have a situation where two salaries are now being paid for the same job.<br />
The best case scenario would be that the pensioner dies early.</p>
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		<title>By: bs</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19136</link>
		<dc:creator>bs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19136</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: jccbin</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19135</link>
		<dc:creator>jccbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19135</guid>
		<description>Seriously, just how many of you RELY on the post office for getting things places?  I think someone in Congress should propose to END the Post Office as obsolete and no longer needed. For those of you who think Certified Mail and other so-called legal notices require a post office, just switch to FedEx or UPS overnight. Much more expensive, but not riding on my back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, just how many of you RELY on the post office for getting things places?  I think someone in Congress should propose to END the Post Office as obsolete and no longer needed. For those of you who think Certified Mail and other so-called legal notices require a post office, just switch to FedEx or UPS overnight. Much more expensive, but not riding on my back.</p>
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		<title>By: bk</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/07/19/usps-at-risk-at-not-making-payroll/comment-page-1/#comment-19132</link>
		<dc:creator>bk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=3722#comment-19132</guid>
		<description>&quot;The presidents of the American Postal Workers Union, National Rural Letter Carriers’ Association, National Association of Letter Carriers and National Postal Mailhandlers Union ....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The presidents of the American Postal Workers Union, National Rural Letter Carriers’ Association, National Association of Letter Carriers and National Postal Mailhandlers Union &#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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