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	<title>Comments on: Same-sex marriage and the definition of insanity.</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/</link>
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		<title>By: bogornes</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16706</link>
		<dc:creator>bogornes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 01:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16706</guid>
		<description>Nevada legalized domestic partnerships and New Hampshire legalized same-sex marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevada legalized domestic partnerships and New Hampshire legalized same-sex marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: icbm</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16695</link>
		<dc:creator>icbm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16695</guid>
		<description>... not that I need to tell you that.

But I certainly hope that more and more proponents of homosexual marriage come around to your way of thinking.  Disdaining fellow citizens simply because they have a reasonable disagreement especially bad for a republic that, by its nature, depends on the exchange of views among equals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; not that I need to tell you that.</p>
<p>But I certainly hope that more and more proponents of homosexual marriage come around to your way of thinking.  Disdaining fellow citizens simply because they have a reasonable disagreement especially bad for a republic that, by its nature, depends on the exchange of views among equals.</p>
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		<title>By: NightTwister</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16692</link>
		<dc:creator>NightTwister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16692</guid>
		<description>Yes, they got some enumerated rights, but SSM is constitutionally barred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they got some enumerated rights, but SSM is constitutionally barred.</p>
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		<title>By: danielhill2008</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16690</link>
		<dc:creator>danielhill2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16690</guid>
		<description>I think that most reasonable people have little problem with granting same sex couples equal rights with respect to visitation, survivorship, power of attorney, etc., as an operation of law, same as marriage.  The problem arises when SSM advocates push for equal acceptance of their lifestyle choice (or not choice, whatever).  A majority of people are opposed to that particular lifestyle on deeply held religious grounds, and that&#039;s not likely to change.  Whether gayness is a &quot;sin&quot; is an issue likely never to be resolved, but to seek an imprimatur from The Church, the ultimate authority for many people, is overreaching.  As JHancock says, it&#039;s focused not on demanding rights, but forcing social/religious change.  And that&#039;s not gonna happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that most reasonable people have little problem with granting same sex couples equal rights with respect to visitation, survivorship, power of attorney, etc., as an operation of law, same as marriage.  The problem arises when SSM advocates push for equal acceptance of their lifestyle choice (or not choice, whatever).  A majority of people are opposed to that particular lifestyle on deeply held religious grounds, and that&#8217;s not likely to change.  Whether gayness is a &#8220;sin&#8221; is an issue likely never to be resolved, but to seek an imprimatur from The Church, the ultimate authority for many people, is overreaching.  As JHancock says, it&#8217;s focused not on demanding rights, but forcing social/religious change.  And that&#8217;s not gonna happen.</p>
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		<title>By: JHancock</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16591</link>
		<dc:creator>JHancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16591</guid>
		<description>Make sure that SSM is just used and advocated JUST in terms of personal freedom, not as cultural change. I&#039;d be OK with letting homosexual couples have visitation rights, power of attorney, cohabitation rights etc. What I&#039;m not OK with is the &quot;Gay Day&quot; school education programs in California that are teaching school kids about the acceptability and equivalence of alternative lifestyles to traditional marriage and not letting parents opt out. Making sure gays have equivalent rights to us breeders is one thing-and something that even a far right straight Christian conservative could vote for. Trying to force &quot;religious bigots&quot; to view homosexuality as morally equivalent to hetero-marriage by brainwashing their children and limiting their freedom of speech and religion is another, and quite frankly is the reason why there has been so much political backlash to gay marriage, because it hasn&#039;t just been about demanding American rights but forcing social/religious change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make sure that SSM is just used and advocated JUST in terms of personal freedom, not as cultural change. I&#8217;d be OK with letting homosexual couples have visitation rights, power of attorney, cohabitation rights etc. What I&#8217;m not OK with is the &#8220;Gay Day&#8221; school education programs in California that are teaching school kids about the acceptability and equivalence of alternative lifestyles to traditional marriage and not letting parents opt out. Making sure gays have equivalent rights to us breeders is one thing-and something that even a far right straight Christian conservative could vote for. Trying to force &#8220;religious bigots&#8221; to view homosexuality as morally equivalent to hetero-marriage by brainwashing their children and limiting their freedom of speech and religion is another, and quite frankly is the reason why there has been so much political backlash to gay marriage, because it hasn&#8217;t just been about demanding American rights but forcing social/religious change.</p>
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		<title>By: 6eorge Jetson</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16497</link>
		<dc:creator>6eorge Jetson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 19:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16497</guid>
		<description>that lefties will use the powers and precedents set through the courts for a whole different set of issues.  Can I say exactly what those are? No, but you know that the lefties will be out to micromanage our lives, because that&#039;s what they feed upon.

Two men or two women seek life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as they see fit.  It doesn&#039;t directly harm anyone else.  Except that the harm through power usurpation and associated systematic leftist indoctrination &lt;b&gt;will undoubtedly harm America and impinge upon my rights in some yet-to-be-realized downstream form&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that lefties will use the powers and precedents set through the courts for a whole different set of issues.  Can I say exactly what those are? No, but you know that the lefties will be out to micromanage our lives, because that&#8217;s what they feed upon.</p>
<p>Two men or two women seek life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as they see fit.  It doesn&#8217;t directly harm anyone else.  Except that the harm through power usurpation and associated systematic leftist indoctrination <b>will undoubtedly harm America and impinge upon my rights in some yet-to-be-realized downstream form</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: penguin2</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16493</link>
		<dc:creator>penguin2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16493</guid>
		<description>I believe in live and let live, and civil unions give them equal protection under the law.  But the social change they are trying to force is to have others condone it, and that is not acceptable to many of us.  They&#039;ll be suing churches, pastors, priests to perform SSM, that would be the government interfering in our religious beliefs and practices.  While that is unconstitutional, I haven&#039;t seen much lately that reassures me on that point.

Along with this is exactly what the protections Pres. Bush put in place to protect Catholic hospitals from performing abortions.  When the Obama admin get rid of those protections they&#039;ll be suing the hospitals, etc.

I was reading somewhere, in Europe, Marriage is done in a civil manner, court or registrar office and then by personal preference people can go off and have a marriage ceremony in the religious institution they choose.  That allows a church, synagogue, mosque to decide for themselves, based on their religious beliefs, who to perform a marriage ceremony for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in live and let live, and civil unions give them equal protection under the law.  But the social change they are trying to force is to have others condone it, and that is not acceptable to many of us.  They&#8217;ll be suing churches, pastors, priests to perform SSM, that would be the government interfering in our religious beliefs and practices.  While that is unconstitutional, I haven&#8217;t seen much lately that reassures me on that point.</p>
<p>Along with this is exactly what the protections Pres. Bush put in place to protect Catholic hospitals from performing abortions.  When the Obama admin get rid of those protections they&#8217;ll be suing the hospitals, etc.</p>
<p>I was reading somewhere, in Europe, Marriage is done in a civil manner, court or registrar office and then by personal preference people can go off and have a marriage ceremony in the religious institution they choose.  That allows a church, synagogue, mosque to decide for themselves, based on their religious beliefs, who to perform a marriage ceremony for.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16492</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16492</guid>
		<description>An in-depth handling of this probably is best done in a  separate diary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An in-depth handling of this probably is best done in a  separate diary.</p>
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		<title>By: redstatebluestate123</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16491</link>
		<dc:creator>redstatebluestate123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16491</guid>
		<description>But it&#039;s a coherent argument that lays out a solid list of logical do&#039;s and dont&#039;s, with good analysis.  And a chart!

Recommended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it&#8217;s a coherent argument that lays out a solid list of logical do&#8217;s and dont&#8217;s, with good analysis.  And a chart!</p>
<p>Recommended.</p>
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		<title>By: Swamp_Yankee</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16490</link>
		<dc:creator>Swamp_Yankee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16490</guid>
		<description>Holy cow. You know they will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever let that happen. There won;t be a referendum and if there was one, they won&#039;t honor the results. They do that all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy cow. You know they will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever let that happen. There won;t be a referendum and if there was one, they won&#8217;t honor the results. They do that all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Weimer</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16489</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Weimer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16489</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a privilege, not a right. 

The constitution is silent on the matter, so we are free to decide, legislatively, what constitutes &quot;marriage&quot;. It&#039;s a straight, role-of-government decide-at-the-proper-level issue, and one I can live with, regardless of my personal, religious perspective. I would probably vote against it, if given the opportunity. However, I would abide the decision either way as long as it completed through the proper process.  

My biggest concern is advocates confusing the two and trying to force constitutionally protected rights out of the way - like the photographer in NJ and attempting to force a church to allow an SM on their grounds. With those protections, I have no problem with it at all. They can call it what they want, that&#039;s all semantics anyway.  

Oh, and your point about &quot;sore losers&quot; in CA., you hit the nail on the head. That&#039;s exactly why I have absolutely NO sympathy for those groups. And what was it many of these groups keep telling us, &quot;abandon the social issues, they&#039;re losers for you?&quot; So why do THEY keep a heavy strain in that arena? Hmmmmm, methinks they want us to stop pushing back so they can get their way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a privilege, not a right. </p>
<p>The constitution is silent on the matter, so we are free to decide, legislatively, what constitutes &#8220;marriage&#8221;. It&#8217;s a straight, role-of-government decide-at-the-proper-level issue, and one I can live with, regardless of my personal, religious perspective. I would probably vote against it, if given the opportunity. However, I would abide the decision either way as long as it completed through the proper process.  </p>
<p>My biggest concern is advocates confusing the two and trying to force constitutionally protected rights out of the way &#8211; like the photographer in NJ and attempting to force a church to allow an SM on their grounds. With those protections, I have no problem with it at all. They can call it what they want, that&#8217;s all semantics anyway.  </p>
<p>Oh, and your point about &#8220;sore losers&#8221; in CA., you hit the nail on the head. That&#8217;s exactly why I have absolutely NO sympathy for those groups. And what was it many of these groups keep telling us, &#8220;abandon the social issues, they&#8217;re losers for you?&#8221; So why do THEY keep a heavy strain in that arena? Hmmmmm, methinks they want us to stop pushing back so they can get their way.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16488</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16488</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: ocleverone</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16487</link>
		<dc:creator>ocleverone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16487</guid>
		<description>I realize that google is my friend but I thought I would search out opinions from people whose writings I have been reading and respect.

My apologies if this was an annoyance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize that google is my friend but I thought I would search out opinions from people whose writings I have been reading and respect.</p>
<p>My apologies if this was an annoyance.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16486</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16486</guid>
		<description>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=civil+unions+undermine+marriage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=civil+unions+undermine+marriage</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16485</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 16:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16485</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the same wing of American society pushing for marriage changes, that pushed for easy divorce to begin with.

That&#039;s not irony.  That&#039;s compounding error with error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the same wing of American society pushing for marriage changes, that pushed for easy divorce to begin with.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not irony.  That&#8217;s compounding error with error.</p>
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		<title>By: Achance</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16484</link>
		<dc:creator>Achance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16484</guid>
		<description>essentially turning marriage into a contractual partnership, a civil union, through &quot;no fault&quot; divorce laws and commonly acquired property laws.  I guess that&#039;s why even though I&#039;m pretty opposed to the open homosexual lifestyle, I can&#039;t get too excited about what &quot;gay marriage&quot; or civil unions might do to an institution that already isn&#039;t worth much at the legal level.  I&#039;m more supportive of doing away with marriage as a legal entitty and make it a personal or religious committment in which the government has no part.  Persons thus committed can then go get their piece of paper from the government that establishes the contractual rights, tax status, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>essentially turning marriage into a contractual partnership, a civil union, through &#8220;no fault&#8221; divorce laws and commonly acquired property laws.  I guess that&#8217;s why even though I&#8217;m pretty opposed to the open homosexual lifestyle, I can&#8217;t get too excited about what &#8220;gay marriage&#8221; or civil unions might do to an institution that already isn&#8217;t worth much at the legal level.  I&#8217;m more supportive of doing away with marriage as a legal entitty and make it a personal or religious committment in which the government has no part.  Persons thus committed can then go get their piece of paper from the government that establishes the contractual rights, tax status, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveLA</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16483</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16483</guid>
		<description>IJB

While I understand the comment, as a &quot;Plank&quot; of the Republican party, the hard line stance does not help win I&#039;s a moderates to the party. I&#039;d assert that it drives the middle away from the party.

The fact is that probably a majority of people probably  know personally a gay person or a gay couple, and while not validating their life style choice I somehow doubt a majority of people support restricting &quot;rights&quot; granted by society and government to domestic partnerships. 

Again, this is one of those issues that the R party is going to have to struggle with, obviously your view is one that is held by some segment of the party. How much compromise space there is on the issue of domestic partnerships, who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IJB</p>
<p>While I understand the comment, as a &#8220;Plank&#8221; of the Republican party, the hard line stance does not help win I&#8217;s a moderates to the party. I&#8217;d assert that it drives the middle away from the party.</p>
<p>The fact is that probably a majority of people probably  know personally a gay person or a gay couple, and while not validating their life style choice I somehow doubt a majority of people support restricting &#8220;rights&#8221; granted by society and government to domestic partnerships. </p>
<p>Again, this is one of those issues that the R party is going to have to struggle with, obviously your view is one that is held by some segment of the party. How much compromise space there is on the issue of domestic partnerships, who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: daveleroy</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16481</link>
		<dc:creator>daveleroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16481</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it ironic that marriage is becoming passe and out of vogue with heterosexuals (single-parent households, unwed pregnancies, divorce rates, abortions) while homosexuals are fighting for marriage?  What do they see in marriage- other than legal protections that can be achieved through civil unions and/or domestic partnerships- that heterosexuals fail to see in increasing numbers?  Something went wrong somewhere.  The world is turning upside down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it ironic that marriage is becoming passe and out of vogue with heterosexuals (single-parent households, unwed pregnancies, divorce rates, abortions) while homosexuals are fighting for marriage?  What do they see in marriage- other than legal protections that can be achieved through civil unions and/or domestic partnerships- that heterosexuals fail to see in increasing numbers?  Something went wrong somewhere.  The world is turning upside down.</p>
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		<title>By: ocleverone</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16480</link>
		<dc:creator>ocleverone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16480</guid>
		<description>BTW, I had a lamb gyro this weekend in your honor.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I had a lamb gyro this weekend in your honor.  <img src='http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ocleverone</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/05/31/same-sex-marriage-and-the-definition-of-insanity/comment-page-1/#comment-16479</link>
		<dc:creator>ocleverone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2999#comment-16479</guid>
		<description>I have heard how this undermines regular marriage but I have never heard a good reason as to why.

Can you expand on your point?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard how this undermines regular marriage but I have never heard a good reason as to why.</p>
<p>Can you expand on your point?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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