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	<title>Comments on: Cheney Doubles Down on &#8216;torture&#8217; memos.</title>
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	<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/</link>
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		<title>By: stangmmx</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14582</link>
		<dc:creator>stangmmx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14582</guid>
		<description>I go to a fairly prestigious University and I can say with confidence that there is an abundance of level headed conservatives. I personally, lean more libertarian, and if I could point to any party that will grow ten fold due to my generation, it is the libertarian party. 

It depends on the type of college student you&#039;re talking about. In the arts school (home of dancers, actors, painters, film students, etc) there is overwhelming support for &quot;progressive&quot; viewpoints. In the business school, engineering, science, etc it is the exact opposite. 

I hope we&#039;re not trying to compare a bratty child complaining at the table to college students. Its our generation that can learn about this catastrophic presidency and have ample time to prepare for a GOP comeback. 

So, please be more respectful to college students. Many of us (such as myself) are specifically going back to grad school to prepare to be future leaders in the business, political, or artistic world. And, in doing so, we carry with us (hopefully after Obamunism) the principals of conservative ideology. Have more faith in us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I go to a fairly prestigious University and I can say with confidence that there is an abundance of level headed conservatives. I personally, lean more libertarian, and if I could point to any party that will grow ten fold due to my generation, it is the libertarian party. </p>
<p>It depends on the type of college student you&#8217;re talking about. In the arts school (home of dancers, actors, painters, film students, etc) there is overwhelming support for &#8220;progressive&#8221; viewpoints. In the business school, engineering, science, etc it is the exact opposite. </p>
<p>I hope we&#8217;re not trying to compare a bratty child complaining at the table to college students. Its our generation that can learn about this catastrophic presidency and have ample time to prepare for a GOP comeback. </p>
<p>So, please be more respectful to college students. Many of us (such as myself) are specifically going back to grad school to prepare to be future leaders in the business, political, or artistic world. And, in doing so, we carry with us (hopefully after Obamunism) the principals of conservative ideology. Have more faith in us.</p>
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		<title>By: ajl_mo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14167</link>
		<dc:creator>ajl_mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14167</guid>
		<description>&gt;Well, you tell me...Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.
********
I&#039;m not. That&#039;s why I support VP Cheney&#039;s request.

&gt;If Cheney gets his way, we’ll find out, won’t we pal?
******
Yes. That&#039;s why I posted in support of Cheney&#039;s position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Well, you tell me&#8230;Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.<br />
********<br />
I&#8217;m not. That&#8217;s why I support VP Cheney&#8217;s request.</p>
<p>&gt;If Cheney gets his way, we’ll find out, won’t we pal?<br />
******<br />
Yes. That&#8217;s why I posted in support of Cheney&#8217;s position.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack_Savage</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14162</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack_Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14162</guid>
		<description>Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.

If Cheney gets his way, we&#039;ll find out, won&#039;t we pal? If it were up to me the bastard would look like the Black Knight in the Monty Python skit. And that would have been interrogation #1...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you are so deep in the CIA and so very up to speed with the efficacy of enhanced interrogation.</p>
<p>If Cheney gets his way, we&#8217;ll find out, won&#8217;t we pal? If it were up to me the bastard would look like the Black Knight in the Monty Python skit. And that would have been interrogation #1&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rod_Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14161</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod_Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14161</guid>
		<description>Last time I looked, it was obvious that we (especially McCain) tried to avoid the discussion of GWB in the last election.   It&#039;s like that we were too &quot;ashamed&quot; of him and we were trying to lock him up in the closet.

The last election should have been a chance for GWB to defend himself from all the lies of the left in the last 4 years.    GWB  should have participated more in the debates.     He was actually the subject of the major attacks of the Left  against McCain.

McCain&#039;s message was really inconsistent.   He didn&#039;t really make a coherent case whether he would swallow or spew GWB, a disgraced President according to the libs and the MSM.  Considering the pros and cons, he should have embraced GWB to the fullest.     McCain missed a great opportunity of allowing Bush and Cheney to help him in many issues.

Allowing GWB and Cheney to recover their honor against the smear attack of the Left would have been more favorable to McCain.   We should have utilized GWB and Cheney more.     

GWB should have admitted that his bipartisan approach in the last 4 years cost him everything.   GWB should have never signed that TARP 1 Law.   GWB should have focused his last few months in the WH in letting the public KNOW what really caused the September Financial Crisis. 

GWB and Cheney could have saved McCain in 2008 if we just allow them to wear their old Conservative Badge to help fight the Democrats.

But we left GWB and Cheney in the WH.   I don&#039;t really know who was influencing GWB in those days when the TARP1 was being formulated.    I suspect that it was a bunch of two-faced Democrats trying to poison the conservative mind of the President.   In 2008, we actually lost our sight of GWB.    Deep inside, I really believe that the man sitting as President in the WH last 2008  was not the GWB I voted for in 2000 and 2004.

Despite of the above, I still thank the former President for everything.  He still deserves the comfort of his newly found private life away from the WH.

As for McCain, I still feel sorry for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last time I looked, it was obvious that we (especially McCain) tried to avoid the discussion of GWB in the last election.   It&#8217;s like that we were too &#8220;ashamed&#8221; of him and we were trying to lock him up in the closet.</p>
<p>The last election should have been a chance for GWB to defend himself from all the lies of the left in the last 4 years.    GWB  should have participated more in the debates.     He was actually the subject of the major attacks of the Left  against McCain.</p>
<p>McCain&#8217;s message was really inconsistent.   He didn&#8217;t really make a coherent case whether he would swallow or spew GWB, a disgraced President according to the libs and the MSM.  Considering the pros and cons, he should have embraced GWB to the fullest.     McCain missed a great opportunity of allowing Bush and Cheney to help him in many issues.</p>
<p>Allowing GWB and Cheney to recover their honor against the smear attack of the Left would have been more favorable to McCain.   We should have utilized GWB and Cheney more.     </p>
<p>GWB should have admitted that his bipartisan approach in the last 4 years cost him everything.   GWB should have never signed that TARP 1 Law.   GWB should have focused his last few months in the WH in letting the public KNOW what really caused the September Financial Crisis. </p>
<p>GWB and Cheney could have saved McCain in 2008 if we just allow them to wear their old Conservative Badge to help fight the Democrats.</p>
<p>But we left GWB and Cheney in the WH.   I don&#8217;t really know who was influencing GWB in those days when the TARP1 was being formulated.    I suspect that it was a bunch of two-faced Democrats trying to poison the conservative mind of the President.   In 2008, we actually lost our sight of GWB.    Deep inside, I really believe that the man sitting as President in the WH last 2008  was not the GWB I voted for in 2000 and 2004.</p>
<p>Despite of the above, I still thank the former President for everything.  He still deserves the comfort of his newly found private life away from the WH.</p>
<p>As for McCain, I still feel sorry for him.</p>
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		<title>By: mbecker908</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14150</link>
		<dc:creator>mbecker908</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14150</guid>
		<description>that we are war in this country and that Democrats are, in fact, enemies of the State, you might take an educated guess where I&#039;d come down on that proposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that we are war in this country and that Democrats are, in fact, enemies of the State, you might take an educated guess where I&#8217;d come down on that proposition.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe_Cor</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14147</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe_Cor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14147</guid>
		<description>his former boss had had a lot more of Cheney in him.  Actually, I think the country would be in a far better state today if the names on the Republican Presidential ticket had been flipped in 2000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>his former boss had had a lot more of Cheney in him.  Actually, I think the country would be in a far better state today if the names on the Republican Presidential ticket had been flipped in 2000.</p>
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		<title>By: fishbreath</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14146</link>
		<dc:creator>fishbreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14146</guid>
		<description>On the one hand, I&#039;m not sure the memos should have been released in the first place. On the other, since the cat is out of the bag, I&#039;m all about full disclosure.

On another note, having taken a psychology course or two (and heaven knows that the most dangerous thing in the world is a *little* bit of knowledge, so I may be wrong here), it is my understanding that a great many psychological effects have an affective and a cognitive component. Response to torture strikes me as that kind of thing.

There&#039;s an affective component: an immediate and emotional response to the torture. Fear and pain kick in, and the subject gives in. There&#039;s also a cognitive component--twice a day for 90 days, at exactly the same times every day, the interrogators come, take you away, and strap you to the bench. Perhaps they&#039;ve put a clock outside your cell so you can tell when it&#039;s about to happen. Eventually, you begin to dread the coming of the time when they come for you, and you realize that your prayers to Allah are going unanswered, and you know that the infidel interrogators are not going to kill you. You get to thinking, and you realize that you can make it stop. You break.

The point is, the immediate psychological effect of torture is less useful and probably more likely to result in false confessions anyway. The way to break a subject who isn&#039;t going to talk isn&#039;t by torture itself--it&#039;s by the dread that rises as the clock ticks toward the appointed time.

Now I&#039;m very interested in seeing the memos, and seeing when/if KSM broke. Maybe I should write some emails to the White House and to Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the one hand, I&#8217;m not sure the memos should have been released in the first place. On the other, since the cat is out of the bag, I&#8217;m all about full disclosure.</p>
<p>On another note, having taken a psychology course or two (and heaven knows that the most dangerous thing in the world is a *little* bit of knowledge, so I may be wrong here), it is my understanding that a great many psychological effects have an affective and a cognitive component. Response to torture strikes me as that kind of thing.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an affective component: an immediate and emotional response to the torture. Fear and pain kick in, and the subject gives in. There&#8217;s also a cognitive component&#8211;twice a day for 90 days, at exactly the same times every day, the interrogators come, take you away, and strap you to the bench. Perhaps they&#8217;ve put a clock outside your cell so you can tell when it&#8217;s about to happen. Eventually, you begin to dread the coming of the time when they come for you, and you realize that your prayers to Allah are going unanswered, and you know that the infidel interrogators are not going to kill you. You get to thinking, and you realize that you can make it stop. You break.</p>
<p>The point is, the immediate psychological effect of torture is less useful and probably more likely to result in false confessions anyway. The way to break a subject who isn&#8217;t going to talk isn&#8217;t by torture itself&#8211;it&#8217;s by the dread that rises as the clock ticks toward the appointed time.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m very interested in seeing the memos, and seeing when/if KSM broke. Maybe I should write some emails to the White House and to Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: aesthete</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14145</link>
		<dc:creator>aesthete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14145</guid>
		<description>Most of us are barely sentient, and it&#039;s frighteningly easy to be considered &quot;erudite&quot; for your age. Basically, if you&#039;re 18-25 and you can communicate semi-coherently, you&#039;re a crowning example of your kind and eligible for scholarships :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of us are barely sentient, and it&#8217;s frighteningly easy to be considered &#8220;erudite&#8221; for your age. Basically, if you&#8217;re 18-25 and you can communicate semi-coherently, you&#8217;re a crowning example of your kind and eligible for scholarships <img src='http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: fishbreath</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14144</link>
		<dc:creator>fishbreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14144</guid>
		<description>Somewhere between 50% and 90% of us are, in fact, idiots, depending on where you sample. &lt;.&lt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere between 50% and 90% of us are, in fact, idiots, depending on where you sample. &lt;.&lt;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: IJB</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14143</link>
		<dc:creator>IJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14143</guid>
		<description>...In this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;In this country.</p>
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		<title>By: nod90</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14142</link>
		<dc:creator>nod90</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14142</guid>
		<description>...in the 9/11 attack planned by KSM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;in the 9/11 attack planned by KSM.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: IJB</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14141</link>
		<dc:creator>IJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 05:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14141</guid>
		<description>;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: bobojake</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14140</link>
		<dc:creator>bobojake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 04:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14140</guid>
		<description>He would of ripped obama up and not let himcontinual lie.

obama would of wished he had his teleprompter to tell him what to say and it wouldn&#039;t of been there. Today obama had a 6.6 sec lapse trying to figure out his answer about the book the killer dictator shoved down obama throat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He would of ripped obama up and not let himcontinual lie.</p>
<p>obama would of wished he had his teleprompter to tell him what to say and it wouldn&#8217;t of been there. Today obama had a 6.6 sec lapse trying to figure out his answer about the book the killer dictator shoved down obama throat.</p>
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		<title>By: bs</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14139</link>
		<dc:creator>bs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14139</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JoeG</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14138</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14138</guid>
		<description>But I sure do wish that Cheney was president all those years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I sure do wish that Cheney was president all those years.</p>
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		<title>By: ajl_mo</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14137</link>
		<dc:creator>ajl_mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14137</guid>
		<description>&gt;if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough,
*********
Maybe it was very effective. Hopefully VP Cheney has his wish and we&#039;ll soon find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough,<br />
*********<br />
Maybe it was very effective. Hopefully VP Cheney has his wish and we&#8217;ll soon find out.</p>
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		<title>By: DONTREADONME</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14136</link>
		<dc:creator>DONTREADONME</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14136</guid>
		<description>if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough, should have moved on the Japanese water cure received by American POWs during WWII.  Yes, I remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if we waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed 183 times that goes to show that the technique was not effective enough, should have moved on the Japanese water cure received by American POWs during WWII.  Yes, I remember.</p>
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		<title>By: HappyBunny</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14135</link>
		<dc:creator>HappyBunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14135</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src=&quot;http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/BM70~Whatever-You-Moron-Posters.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;&quot;&gt;

Actually, you&#039;re dumber.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/BM70~Whatever-You-Moron-Posters.jpg" alt=""/></p>
<p>Actually, you&#8217;re dumber.</p>
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		<title>By: redneck_hippie</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14134</link>
		<dc:creator>redneck_hippie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14134</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: Rod_Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/20/cheney-doubles-down-on-torture-memos/comment-page-1/#comment-14133</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod_Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2392#comment-14133</guid>
		<description></description>
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