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	<title>Comments on: More details on retail &#8216;Card Check&#8217; compromise.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/</link>
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		<title>By: JLenardDetroit</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12842</link>
		<dc:creator>JLenardDetroit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12842</guid>
		<description>They &quot;settle&quot; to get it passed at 70% + 1 and then in a year (or after the 2010 Election) they then change the law down to 50% as planned all along - and there are STILL folks dumb enough to fall for this ploy/tactic EVERY TIME!!!!

Further, it would not surprise me other idiots (read: companies willing to &quot;support&quot; Card Check now) that feel they have some &quot;unwritten agreement&quot; (read: BACKROOM DEAL) with the &quot;Unions&quot; that they will go easy on them and/or not &quot;target&quot; them..... To whom I say - YOU PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTE MORONS THAT HAVE (AND WILL NEVER) LEARN!!!!! The main target, of course - as we all know, is Wal-Mart! They are just the beginning and all the Fool companies that don&#039;t grasp that this is just &quot;incremental-ism&quot; and you will be targeted TOO eventually deserves the hardship you&#039;ll eventually see - THE PROBLEM, of course, is that WE ALL will have to suffer (not just those companies) for their Folly!

&lt;b&gt;A Deal with the Devil, is NO DEAL&lt;/b&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They &#8220;settle&#8221; to get it passed at 70% + 1 and then in a year (or after the 2010 Election) they then change the law down to 50% as planned all along &#8211; and there are STILL folks dumb enough to fall for this ploy/tactic EVERY TIME!!!!</p>
<p>Further, it would not surprise me other idiots (read: companies willing to &#8220;support&#8221; Card Check now) that feel they have some &#8220;unwritten agreement&#8221; (read: BACKROOM DEAL) with the &#8220;Unions&#8221; that they will go easy on them and/or not &#8220;target&#8221; them&#8230;.. To whom I say &#8211; YOU PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTE MORONS THAT HAVE (AND WILL NEVER) LEARN!!!!! The main target, of course &#8211; as we all know, is Wal-Mart! They are just the beginning and all the Fool companies that don&#8217;t grasp that this is just &#8220;incremental-ism&#8221; and you will be targeted TOO eventually deserves the hardship you&#8217;ll eventually see &#8211; THE PROBLEM, of course, is that WE ALL will have to suffer (not just those companies) for their Folly!</p>
<p><b>A Deal with the Devil, is NO DEAL</b>!</p>
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		<title>By: weave</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12840</link>
		<dc:creator>weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12840</guid>
		<description>The card check idea was such a ludicrous idea I think it was just floated out there in order to force a compromise such as this.

Oldest negotiating trick in the book.  Make your first offer absolutely ridiculous so you can retreat a bit and make the other party feel good about it, even though they are still being had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The card check idea was such a ludicrous idea I think it was just floated out there in order to force a compromise such as this.</p>
<p>Oldest negotiating trick in the book.  Make your first offer absolutely ridiculous so you can retreat a bit and make the other party feel good about it, even though they are still being had.</p>
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		<title>By: gensec</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12839</link>
		<dc:creator>gensec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12839</guid>
		<description>There were two main reasons for objecting to Card Check. The most ardent and popular objection was its undemocratic removal of the secret ballot, and only secondarily that it would result in more unionization.

Of course for supporters of Card Check, more unionization was the whole point, while small &#039;d&#039; democracy doesn&#039;t have much inherent value for many capital &#039;D&#039; Democrats (at least when democracy reaches the &quot;wrong&quot; outcome).

The proposal in the linked article does sound basically democratic, possibly more democratic that the current system depending on how much employers game the system with delayed elections and redefining the voter pool. Thus this proposal fully satisfies the main objection of most Card Check opponents.

For those who opposed Card Check because it would lead to more unionization, this proposal is indeed a compromise, worse than the current system. It will result in more unionization than now, but only where the majority of workers in a secret ballot want a union. It will result in less unionization than Card Check, because that unionizes some sites where a majority of workers really don&#039;t want a union.

For me the undemocratic nature of Card Check, with its invitation for intimidation, was the overwhelming objection. So I&#039;m basically OK with this idea (depending on implementation details, not spelled out in the article).

I also think unions are generally a bad idea, labor cartels that distorts the market the same way as an other anti-competitive collusion between suppliers. In principle, antitrust law should apply to unions like any other cartel. However the vast majority of Americans disagree with me on this, whether or not they personally want to be in a union. We&#039;re not going to win any battles fighting to limit the right of workers to democratically choose to unions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were two main reasons for objecting to Card Check. The most ardent and popular objection was its undemocratic removal of the secret ballot, and only secondarily that it would result in more unionization.</p>
<p>Of course for supporters of Card Check, more unionization was the whole point, while small &#8216;d&#8217; democracy doesn&#8217;t have much inherent value for many capital &#8216;D&#8217; Democrats (at least when democracy reaches the &#8220;wrong&#8221; outcome).</p>
<p>The proposal in the linked article does sound basically democratic, possibly more democratic that the current system depending on how much employers game the system with delayed elections and redefining the voter pool. Thus this proposal fully satisfies the main objection of most Card Check opponents.</p>
<p>For those who opposed Card Check because it would lead to more unionization, this proposal is indeed a compromise, worse than the current system. It will result in more unionization than now, but only where the majority of workers in a secret ballot want a union. It will result in less unionization than Card Check, because that unionizes some sites where a majority of workers really don&#8217;t want a union.</p>
<p>For me the undemocratic nature of Card Check, with its invitation for intimidation, was the overwhelming objection. So I&#8217;m basically OK with this idea (depending on implementation details, not spelled out in the article).</p>
<p>I also think unions are generally a bad idea, labor cartels that distorts the market the same way as an other anti-competitive collusion between suppliers. In principle, antitrust law should apply to unions like any other cartel. However the vast majority of Americans disagree with me on this, whether or not they personally want to be in a union. We&#8217;re not going to win any battles fighting to limit the right of workers to democratically choose to unions.</p>
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		<title>By: The_Rebel</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12837</link>
		<dc:creator>The_Rebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12837</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re going on the offensive now and putting their money where their mouth is.  I&#039;ll bet their gun sales are up sharply, too.  You paying attention, union thugs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re going on the offensive now and putting their money where their mouth is.  I&#8217;ll bet their gun sales are up sharply, too.  You paying attention, union thugs?</p>
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		<title>By: Moe Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12836</link>
		<dc:creator>Moe Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12836</guid>
		<description>And the best way to counter their opinion is to get one of the relevant numbers down to 49, 217, or zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the best way to counter their opinion is to get one of the relevant numbers down to 49, 217, or zero.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike gamecock DeVine</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12835</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike gamecock DeVine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12835</guid>
		<description>The large dem congressional majorities
The major damage to the economy anything like the original proposals would cause.
And the imperfect system we have now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The large dem congressional majorities<br />
The major damage to the economy anything like the original proposals would cause.<br />
And the imperfect system we have now.</p>
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		<title>By: 10ksnooker</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/22/more-details-on-retail-card-check-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-12833</link>
		<dc:creator>10ksnooker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/?p=2056#comment-12833</guid>
		<description>Why do Conservatives always fall into the trap of &quot;gee this isn&#039;t so bad, I guess I can support that&quot;

So tell me, why can&#039;t any company that wants to form unions right now. No reason actually, the employees just don&#039;t want the union crapola.

The premise of this whole issue is wrong. Do nothing is best. Nothing is needed done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do Conservatives always fall into the trap of &#8220;gee this isn&#8217;t so bad, I guess I can support that&#8221;</p>
<p>So tell me, why can&#8217;t any company that wants to form unions right now. No reason actually, the employees just don&#8217;t want the union crapola.</p>
<p>The premise of this whole issue is wrong. Do nothing is best. Nothing is needed done.</p>
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