If you really wanted to drive the US to socialized health care you must first create a crisis that you can pin on some outside source. In this case it would be the Vatican shutting down hospitals because they don’t respects a persons “rights”.

Welcome to the end around.

Going to Mass isn’t enough. Participating in the Eucharist isn’t enough. If we as Catholics don’t defend the unborn, just who are we going to defend.

I for one am so sick and tired of my fellow Catholics who willingly believe social justice trumps justice for unborn children.

Funny thing, the soul! Mine tells me that abortion is a horrible wrong against the Almighty.

(Not my word, going from the first quoted news blurb)

This won’t be the centerpiece, even of the Obama administration… what it’ll be is something they’ll try to push out the door and hope nobody’s watching.

“..willing to close health facilities rather them allow them to be subject to a mandate to do abortions from the Obama administration.”

This approach is unconsionable. The poor and the indigent would be made to suffer by the closing of a nonprofit hospital. Some would certainly die as a result.

The right course is to simply refuse to perform abortions, and then force the State to move against them. Make the State close the hospital. Don’t do it preemptively in a cynical ploy to force politics.

Of course, the whole priest pedophilia thing with the Catholic hierarchy was pretty cynical, so I guess they have it in them.

It’ll be nearly impossible for them to find a pro-life OB/GYN in a few years.

I am dedicatedly pro life. Not because I am catholic, but because I am a human being who dosent think people should be eradicated because they are an inconvenience to others.

That being said , I am glad the bishops are drawing the line. On the other hand, it’s a crying shame that so many Catholics voted for this man, and that joe the schmoe calls himself a Catholic- that is a disgrace.

But this is an issue we have to fight for. I expect as many of you as possible to attend the march for life on Jan 22, 2009.

I am reminded of that old story that recalls the horrors of the Holocaust: they came for my neighbors, and I was silent. Then they came for me.

“we” can fix that for you.

Just start watching/listening to EWTN TV and/or radio and you won’t be able to help but find your way back home! Also recommended: Catholic Answers website: www.catholic.com and any book, CD or video by Fr. John Corapi, SOLT or Fr. Benedict Groeschel, CFR.

P.S. I don’t work for or have any ownership interest in any of the above. I’m just a former bad Catholic who, by the grace of God, has found his way back home to Rome!

And lawsuits over imposing that all medical practicioners perform abortion.
Expect the IRS to challenge Church tax exemptions for daring to speak out on issues The One does not approve of.
think of how the attack in Lansing on Christians was basically effective.

The mission of the church is to proclaim the Gospel. Hospitals are charity that the Church provides out of love for neighborhood. If that charitable work obstructs the primary mission of the church to proclaim the Gospel by compromising essential teachings of the faith it should be discontinued.

I have a problem when the government starts mandating what private organizations can do. When you give the government power to mandate, you give them power to enforce..the best thing the church can do is close these hospitals. As harsh as that sounds, its the only way to stop the monster.

As far as the IRS, we need to appeal amendment 16 and get rid of this waste of time.

because looking at the 2010 senate calendar, it looks likely that Blanche Lincoln would vote with us on the fillibuster, sense seeming to support this would put her in hot water in Arkansas. Ken Salazer might not want to risk his centrist image by allowing a far-left wing bill to pass. Also FOCA, would put Majority Leader Reid in a tough postion as he isnt all that popular in Nevada and flipping on the abortion could be the last straw for many Nevadans who feel Reid has put the job of being party leader over being one of their senators. The first thing Steele needs to as RNC chair is to get as many top-tier senate candidates as possible in order to keep potentially vuonerble Democrats as centerist as possible these next 2 years.

Kudos to the Catholic Church for standing against FOCA. During the entire campaign, I was waiting for McCain and/or 527s to attack BHO’s position on abortion and promise to Planned Parenthood to make FOCA his first act as President. It, unfortunately, never materialized, and to the campaign’s ultimate detriment(espec. here in SW Pa, which is culturally conservative). We conservatives should not shrink from this fight, however.

Over the years, Catholic hospitals and charities have become dependent on government funding–their clients are people who the government subsidizes, so they have to follow gov’t guidelines. They kind of got themselves into this mess, but who could blame them–you can’t keep a hospital open if you don’t accept Medicare patients, for example. So they function like arms of the government. We’ve come to a real sticking point here. Ideally, I’d like the Church to take care of Catholics first, poor and otherwise, then take others on the Church’s terms.

I’m a little bit of a troll here, considering I’m fairly liberal and read this board to learn about what the conservative arguments on particular issues are. In this case, I wanted to post, because I’m one of those rare people who along with being a pretty solid Democrat on most issues, is also a pro-life Catholic (There are a few of us Pro-lifers in the Democratic Party, but sadly not enough) and thought I could offer a different perspective on things.

I’ve been following the Church’s actions on FOCA with some interest. Honestly, I’m not really sure that I like the Church’s actions here. I am all for the church’s involvement in these issues, but there just seems like there is something wrong with denying the Eucharist to politicians because of their policy on this. My reasoning behind it is that the politicians themselves aren’t committing a mortal sin. It is the people who receive abortions who are. Now, you can argue that since the politicians are passing legislation that allows these events to take place make them culpable as well. But does that culpability really reach the level of mortal sin? I’m not sure I can go that far.

I think one of the problems we have when we talk about abortion is that both sides bastardize the oppositions positions. I hear constantly that the pro-life position wants to take away a woman’s control over her own body, force her to have babies. Etc…. Those positions are just comically false. However, I think in our attempt to protect the unborn, we also rush to call all pro-choicers abortionists, and assume that all they WANT people to have abortions, and look down on those who don’t (Sarah Palin comes to mind here). I think we are off on that as well. Most pro-choice people actually care about people having the ability to choose for themselves and not rushing to the defense of abortion in all cases.

I think this is where the Catholic church has gone astray. I think it confuses advocating having an abortion, with advocating the choice to have one. I think these are different things. I really don’t see people like Kerry or Guiliani telling people to have abortions. They leave it up to them to make a decision. I’m not sure that giving people an option here is a mortal sin. I don’t think it’s right, but I’m just not sure it reaches that level. Can you be punished for committing a mortal sin, even if you didn’t commit the sin yourself? I’m not sure about this.

If it does though, I get nervous about the slippery slope it creates. Can the church now deny the Eucharist any time a politician gives people a choice to commit an act against church teachings? If you are a politician who supports the death penalty, gay rights, an unjust war, or another policy against the church’s teachings, should you be considered a sinner even if you didn’t commit the sin yourself? I just don’t see where this ends. This is my concern on this.

How many women seeking abortions will go to a regular doctor or hospital, let alone a Catholic one?

Surely people know that abortionists are segregated from legitimate medical facilities. One need only look at the first page of the yellow pages.

Planned Barrenhood is happy to keep it that way because they don’t want any competition cutting in to their hefty abortion profits.

Such a law would not be at issue for any Catholic or pro-life medical facility because no woman would ever seek an abortion there.

It is supposed to be about CHOICE. Which is/includes freedom of conscience. A doctor [or hospital] is free to choose to perform an abortion on a woman who wants one – OR NOT. Choosing to perform abortions is not supposed to be like choosing to vote for Joe Stalin.

If it violates a doctor’s or hospital administrator’s conscience to perform abortions, a woman who wants one is perfectly free to find another doctor/hospital that performs abortions.

The Victorian state government here in Australia recently passed a new abortion law that will force doctors in catholic run hospitals to either abort or refer to someone who will. If they don’t they will be breaking the new law.

The Catholic church has threatened to do the same thing in closing the hospitals instead of being forced to act against their conscious.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/archbishop-in-abortion-law-threat-20080922-4lsl.html?page=-1

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24388502-5006785,00.html

If the Catholic hospital accepts federal
funding then the government can insist that the hospital offer the abortion services. What the government can’t do is force the doctor to perform abortions, as part of his skill set, if the doctor doesn’t want to do them.

First off, I do not agree with the notion that it is wrong for the Catholic Church to deny the Holy Eucharist to pro-choice politicians. The Catholic Church has always done this-they did it to slave owners as well. When you say “Amen” and accept Communion, you are stating that you are in Communion with Christ and the Catholic Church’s teachings. If you cannot say that, you do not receive. Public officials are a particular problem because they not only publically proclaim their personal issues but they lead people astray by(Pelosi/Biden/Kerry) attemping to use Church teachings to defend their erroneous positions.

Obama’s Freedom of Choice Act is a particular problem because it will force health care professionals, like myself, to participate in an immoral act. As a Registered Nurse, I sought employment at Catholic hospitals on Cardiology wards for this reason, though Bush gave nurses the right to inform their managers which functions they will not perform up front to avoid this conflict.

Without that protection, I will not be returning to work as a nurse as I have planned to do after my children are a little older. I made this decision the momment McCain lost the election. I simply will not assist in these procedures, and it does not matter which unit of a hospital I chose to work on due to “overflow” patients. As a pro-life nurse, you are accused of denying medical care to women if you will not administer the “emergency” birth control to a rape victim. Or if you refuse to take care of the teenaged patient admitted to prep her cervix for delivery of an aborted fetus in the morning. YOU are demonized as the horrible person who wouldn’t use your medical knowledge to help someone. It is part of the liberal agenda to force participation in these procedures on all healthcare professionals, regardless of their personal views on the matter. I applaud the Catholic Church and am grateful that the Church is willing to help fight for my rights as a healthcare professional. I’m a darn good nurse, but if I feel I may be forced to participate in a terrible crime, I will not feel comfortable praticing again. I fully support the Catholic Church’s decision to close hospital doors rather than be forced to advance such evil.

in fact they promoted the priests.

Begone Bigot. – NS

Your post explains why the Church is correct on this issue perfectly. Thank you.

according to the polls, so it seems they are getting what they voted for. Obama’s position on FOCA was well-known. No surprise there, especially when he referred to a baby as punishment for a daughter’s mistake. If a leader will not stand up for the most defenseless of us, how can I be sure he’ll protect me? Life is a make-or-break position with me.

As the Declaration of Independence tells us, our rights start with Life (then liberty and pursuit of happiness). Life is the most important. Jefferson had it right.

COLUMBIA, S.C. — A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him “constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil.”

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

“Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president,” Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.

“Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ’s Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation.”

SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters

Their ad featured both candidates.

Many “dumb” Catholics thought that the RCC in America supports no particular candidate. So they got Obama.

Sorry for the Catholic Bishops and priests. More than 60% of their congregation voted for Obama.

To the Catholic Leadership:

Next time, be explicit in your message and stand.

As to the dumbness of your members, blame it to your pro-abortion Catholic politicians like Pelosi and…the dumby O’Biden.