To follow up my earlier post about how Obama is lying to somebody about planning to gut the coal industry… Jake Tapper, who is on the short list of journalists who will be ending this election with their honor essentially intact, has gotten a response from the Obama campaign. It’s about what you’d expect: the statement’s wildly taken out of context, Barack Obama loves coal so much that he wants it to stand godfather to his next kid, he’d never ever cross coal in a million years.
Jake’s response was to publish the entire original passage and invite his readers to make up their own minds: which, if you follow the man’s blogging, is his way of using a nice, Anglo-Saxon word meaning “nonsense.” Read it after the fold, and you’ll see what I mean.
“I voted against the Clear Skies Bill. In fact, I was the deciding vote — despite the fact that I’m a coal state and that half my state thought that I had thoroughly betrayed them. Because I think clean air is critical and global warming is critical.
“But this notion of no coal, I think, is an illusion. Because the fact of the matter is, is that right now we are getting a lot of our energy from coal. And China is building a coal-powered plant once a week. So what we have to do then is figure out how can we use coal without emitting greenhouse gases and carbon. And how can we sequester that carbon and capture it. If we can’t, then we’re gonna still be working on alternatives.
“But … let me sort of describe my overall policy. What I’ve said is that we would put a cap and trade policy in place that is as aggressive if not more aggressive than anyone out there. I was the first call for 100 percent auction on the cap and trade system. Which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases that was emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants are being built, they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted-down caps that are imposed every year.
“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted. That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel, and other alternative energy approaches. The only thing that I’ve said with respect to coal — I haven’t been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as an ideological matter, as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it, that I think is the right approach. The same with respect to nuclear. Right now, we don’t know how to store nuclear waste wisely and we don’t know how to deal with some of the safety issues that remain. And so it’s wildly expensive to pursue nuclear energy. But I tell you what, if we could figure out how to store it safely, then I think most of us would say that might be a pretty good deal.
“The point is, if we set rigorous standards for the allowable emissions, then we can allow the market to determine and technology and entrepreneurs to pursue, what the best approach is to take, as opposed to us saying at the outset, here are the winners that we’re picking and maybe we pick wrong and maybe we pick right.”
Sounds all right, right?
Wrong. What Obama isn’t mentioning there is that there is no clean coal technology that can replace existing coal plants. That technology is decades away, and until it appears, what we have is what we have to use. So when he says that a no coal policy is an illusion what he means that he’s not going to fight for eliminating existing coal plants; but if you believe this interview, if Obama is elected he will regulate and tax out of existence any attempt to build new ones. Put another way: the coal industry will not be permitted to expand under an Obama administration. It will, in fact, contract: because coal plants do not last forever, and when one finally grows too old to operate at a profit Obama will make sure that a new one isn’t built to take its place.
There is a reason why 49% of our electrical power generation comes from coal: it’s reliable, cheap, and plentiful. As I noted before, there may be a reason why Obama wants to cut our electrical power generation by 15%, but I can’t for the life of me figure out what it is. It seems counter-intuitive to have a program where we’re deliberately creating less wealth (yes, energy represents a form of wealth), particularly when there’s an economic mess unfolding, but apparently that’s what he wants. Unless he was lying in that interview, of course. I’d be pretty much hoping that he was, except that the idea’s kind of appalling in its own right. Slightly less appalling is the notion that the Democratic candidates are simply repeating the talking points that have been handed to them; given that neither is an expert in energy policy, this is entirely possible. It would explain the rather drastic lack of message discipline on this one.
But that’s a different post. Let me sum up this one: you have two options in this election.
Four years from now, do you want to be poorer, colder, and increasingly in the dark? Then by all means, vote Obama/Biden.
Or are you quite selfishly addicted to the sensation of seeing the lights turn on when you flip the switch? Then I suggest McCain/Palin.
Moe Lane
Steve Maley
Neil Stevens
Daniel Horowitz
Four years from now, do you want to be poorer, colder, and increasingly in the dark?
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 8:57PM EST (link)Great one!!! This has been my mantra to Obama supporters since Obama came on the scene.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Pennsylvania are you listening?
sconklin (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:01PM EST (link)n/t
One more nail we need to nail in the MSM's coffin
smagar (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:18PM EST (link)How long have these Obama quotes been out there? Re: his desire to use “price signals” generated from the government for our national energy policy. Or, his intent to “bankrupt” the coal industry?
People who rely on coal for their electricity have every reason to ask the professional reporters in the MSM why those reporters and their editors decided that these choice thought tidbits deserved to be suppressed.
I hope that, after this election, Redstate and the rest of the conservative blogosphere gathers a list—and it will be a very LONG list—of what the MSM covered up.
Then, we need to ask the MSM—loudly and often—why they covered up this information. Insist on answers.
We also need to go over the head of the MSM, go directly to Americans, tell them “this is what the MSM chose to hide from you” and start going through the very long list.
For example, I hope John McCain names the names of the MSM publications that questioned the parentage of Trig Palin.
I hereby volunteer as a researcher for said effort.
The next two years is a great opportunity for the conserative blogosphers to wage sustained warfare against the MSM.
In many cases, they’ve crawled out on a limb. And we have a saw.
And, once the American people get a taste of what information the MSM denied them, I think many, many Americans will cheer us as we saw away at the branch.
The conservative blogosphere has weapons. And, with all the skulduggery of the MSM during this election, we now have plenty of ammunition.
I suggest we open fire.
“Who will stand/On either hand/And guard this bridge with me?” (Macaulay)
Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia... (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:26PM EST (link)RS contributing editor, technical administrator, and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Amen smagar
McPALINation Sunday, November 2nd at 9:35PM EST (link)Amen on the gathering.
Amen on the naming names by President McCain.
Pretty good tree-climber still, and stand ready for orders to fire at will.
I AM (very disappointed) JOE
Don't Forget Virginia
Skanderbeg (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:39PM EST (link)Don’t forget that SW Virginia (WAY out there) is coal country too. If VA is gonna be close, this one matters there too….
WSJ: "Obama's Carbon Ultimatum"
Steve Maley (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:42PM EST (link)Article here.
I can’t wait until my
collectivesubdivision has one of the Dear Leader’sminionsenergy advisors offering thoughtful advice on if, when, and how often I’ll be able to crank up the old Lawn Boy.Pssst: They plan to regulate carbon as a “pollutant” and use the meatax of the EPA to institute it, economywide.
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
The first coherent comment out of that entire screed was
Raven (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 9:53PM EST (link)“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them”
“If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Luke 22:36
What's the big deal?
Shaggy_Dog (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:08PM EST (link)No one apparently cared when Obama said that we can’t just expect to eat as much as we want, drive SUVs and keep our thermostats at 72 degrees and have other countries be ok with it.
And anyone is now actually suprised when a quote comes out that he wants to bankrupt the coal industry?
America deserves what it gets if it elects this guy.
I'm with you.
spainishirish (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:14PM EST (link)It will be nice to see what all comes out after Tuesday. Two years of journalistic fellatio may have to be interrupted from time to time with actual reportage…and I agree it will have to originate in the blogosphere.
Well put, by the way.
spainishirish (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:20PM EST (link)I just read through the full text a second time. The other comments are right. There is barely a coherent thought in it.
["I vote for poorer, colder, and increasingly in the dark."]
regenrick Sunday, November 2nd at 10:31PM EST (link)[Sparky used a temporary email account to register here, which tells you everything that you need to know about his motivations. - Moe Lane]
Yep - Governor Tim Kaine has a little situation on his hands in VA with coal plants
Jack_Savage (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:32PM EST (link)It is too bad VA Governor Tim Kaine doesn’t seem to agree with Obama or the whackos. From the Washington Post (if this is a fair use problem, I am counting on Moe to edit):
Are you here to do damage control?
Danielle Davis (ocleverone) (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:36PM EST (link)Spin, spin, spin.
To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it. — Margaret Thatcher
I particularly enjoyed the consumption / production bit.
Moe Lane (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:42PM EST (link)I guess that the guy hangs around people who apparently think that you can somehow reduce the first without legislating the latter to a fare-thee-well.
Ach, well.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
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My (combined) wish list.
How was this lost all along??
antisocial (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:46PM EST (link)Well I must admit I missed it earlier. How did everybody else miss this? I just heard a tape on Hannity & Colmes from January 08.
I wish this came up here on redstate at least 1 week back.
I hope this gets enough coverage tomorrow.
Obama Doctrine – Boot On The Throat
—————————–
What is to be done?
——————————
No. You can’t – Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
McCain Camp Too Blame
dld1717 (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 10:53PM EST (link)One has to wonder how much of a job the opposition research team for McCain has done on Obama?
Heck, this tape and everything else that has come out was done by other people not involved in camp
nobody likes having to pay the full cost
duckhawk Sunday, November 2nd at 10:59PM EST (link)Socialism just plain doesn’t work, whether it’s the profits or the losses that you’re spreading around. Sure, a few people are reaping the profits of energy production and would hate to pay after everyone else has footed the bill for decades. Some of these people happen to live in swing states.
That doesn’t change the fact that emissions are real costs that we’re all paying, whether they come from a coal plant or a corn-ethanol refinery. A cap and trade system would make energy production a real market that responds to private profits and private costs.
Hopefully once the election is over and we’re less desperate for golden PA votes, we can look at cap-and-trade for what it really is.
Actually, hopefully once this election's over...
Moe Lane (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 11:06PM EST (link)…we’ll have a President-elect who won’t be actively trying to shut down half of the power grid because his supporters freak out over the phrase “coal plant.”
Sorry, but I like reliable electrical power. What’s your problem with it?
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Wait, I've seen that one before . . .
TheKent Sunday, November 2nd at 11:22PM EST (link)Where was it? Oh, that’s right. Soviet Russia.
Formerly known as Poli_Bri (registered January 08).
Why cap and trade could backfire
izoneguy (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 11:22PM EST (link)Why cap and trade could backfire
Excerpt:
By most accounts, the European Union’s cap-and-trade system isn’t working. In its first year of operation (2005-06), emissions covered by the trading scheme rose 0.8 percent. During the same time, according to the Energy Information Agency, emissions in the US – which hasn’t ratified the Kyoto Protocol or adopted a cap-and-trade system – dropped 1.8 percent.
Samuel Bowles, a professor at the Santa Fe Institute, has noted that “[p]olicies designed to harness self-regarding preferences to public ends may be counterproductive. These failures occur when conventional self-interest-based policies compromise the beneficial effects of intrinsic motivation and … a desire to uphold social norms.”
The social stigma of carbon emissions grows stronger each day. As this stigma grows, companies are increasing their investments into research and technologies to reduce and store carbon. If Congress removes the stigma associated with these emissions by assigning a price to them, it may not like the results.
The point cannot be made often enough: Modern liberalism, as embodied in the Obama presidency, is the defender of the status quo. And the status quo is a road to economic ruin. Political forces cannot redistribute the wealth that the economic system does not produce.
Rates will Skyrocket
Robert L. Mayo (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 11:35PM EST (link)The two Obama money quotes are:
“Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”
and
“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them”
If the McCain campaign doesn’t have an ad with these two quotes flooding Pennsylvania, Ohio and SW Virginia by morning, he deserves to loose.
Robert L. Mayo
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men.
- Goethe
Where are we now?
DeeSC Sunday, November 2nd at 11:42PM EST (link)Seems to me that this is exactly what & where the last 8 years of Republican “rule” have brought us. I understand this is hard on a lot of redstaters, but hang on, the best is yet to come. And it will take the best of all of us, not the hate or innuendo of partisans of any party or ideology. Surely there is some hope alive, even here at Redstate! Peace out…
Moe,
pwest (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 11:42PM EST (link)I just posted a dairy; read it, then move it to the front page would you?
We have been too negative this weekend.
We can cry if we have to on NOV 5th, but not until then.
Pam
whoa
duckhawk Sunday, November 2nd at 11:51PM EST (link)I don’t actually have any problem with reliable electrical power. We can agree that electricity is really cool!
All I’m saying is: cap-and-trade is a good solution to a big problem. Yes, pricing externalities into the equation will run some freeloaders out of business whether or not they burn coal. No, there’s no reason to worry about your light switch.
Whether it has McCain’s or Obama’s name on it, cap-and-trade won’t work if it gives coal special treatment because of election-night politicking.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that you were an Obama supporter.
Moe Lane (Diary) Sunday, November 2nd at 11:55PM EST (link)Never mind, then.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
I'm better off
mobius2702 (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:08AM EST (link)For all the whining about how terrible the last 8 years have been, I’m surprised. I’m doing far better than I was 8 years ago…
150%/hour better, to be precise. (That’s percent, not dollars… I’m not going to post my rate here!)
Working as a contract manufacturing engineer in the auto industry, no less.
The same industry that has been hemorraging jobs and cutting benefits seems to have no problem keeping me employed…
Might have something to do with all of those 84 hour weeks… countless hours of my own time learning new robots and standards… you know, ambition, drive, talent, those things that translate into income.
Not whining, begging the government for any scrap they throw my way, and cursing those eeeevil corporations for my failures.
So yeah, the last 8 years have been great for me. And the next four will be even better… I’m just now reaching my prime. And if the government comes knocking for more, they’ll find I just don’t have anything available to give them. They can’t tax my skills, but I can put them on ice for a while. I don’t do charity work for whiners.
Agree. That has been the problem.
SeriousLaff (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:08AM EST (link)Everyone else seems to be trying to win this election for McCain. This isn’t the only tape that should have been out long ago. With a candidate like Obama saying stupid things, you can’t avoid going negative.
McCain’s campaign has, for too long, been waiting for the Obama campaign to implode (won’t happen) or someone else to do the opposition research and run the ads.
that's an interesting model
duckhawk Monday, November 3rd at 12:19AM EST (link)And it’s true that Phase 1 of the European system isn’t very good. But the “stigma” model you cited doesn’t explain why. Stigma doesn’t appear directly on corporate balance sheets, and doesn’t appear at all when consumers have few choices (as in the electricity market). So I’m not optimistic that energy producers can be shamed into installing scrubbers on their smokestacks.
It’s much more likely that the Europeans failed because their caps were not strict enough:
Wow. I imagine that you embarrassed other *Obama supporters*...
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 12:25AM EST (link)…with that particular duckspeak.
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
Heh... better get all those overtime hours in
dbecraft Monday, November 3rd at 12:49AM EST (link)this year… You may want to cut back if Obama wins…ha. You seem to be one of those “rich” people that he is targeting…
Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”
Damn, and I thought that the Democrats
dbecraft Monday, November 3rd at 1:00AM EST (link)controlled Congress… I guess I’ll have to re-think my position…heh. Some of these idiots seem to think that the President controls spending – let them eat cake…heh (they will change their tune if Obama wins).
Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”
Okay, it has been fun...
dbecraft Monday, November 3rd at 1:10AM EST (link)actually posting responses without “errors” usually “500 server errors”, anyway, it has been grand posting – if this post goes though…heh.
Come on guys, fix this problem!
Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”
The bigger point
bk (Diary) Monday, November 3rd at 7:09AM EST (link)is that this is Obama’s approach to ALL traditional energy sources. He feels exactly the same way about coal plants as he does about nuclear plants, refineries, and drilling or mining of any sort. So if you like high energy prices, the Obama plan is for you.
P.S. I wonder what else we haven’t heard from SF. Isn’t that where the bitter religious gun-clinging comment came from too?