Perry: A Bush In Sheep’s Clothing?


The more I learn about Rick Perry, the less I seem to like him as my chosen candidate for the Republican nomination.

Oh, I admire the straight-talk of the guy, and I like his general pro-States-rights attitude. But his record, and his debate answers, are making me think he’s not the real conservative many of us are wishing him to be.

The Gardisil Fiasco

This vies for the #1 position in my “Huh?” list.  Imagine Obama writing an executive order saying that all young girls had to be vaccinated against – well, against ANY illness – prior to entering the sixth grade.  Even if the order included a parental opt-out option, we (conservatives) would be going wild.  Perry did it, and on top of the basic governmental heavy-handedness of the thing, there are those who are also screaming “crony capitalism” over the resulting profits for drug manufacturer Merck, the exclusive maker of the vaccine.

In last night’s debate, Perry responded to Bachmann’s assertion that Merck bought him off by noting that Merck contributed only $5000 to his campaign, and that “he was insulted” if Bachmann thought he could be bought so cheaply.  (I couldn’t figure out if he was saying that he was insulted at the insinuation he could be bought at all, or that he always charges much more for his influence! )  We all know that only dumb politicians sell themselves for immediate cash (e.g., Blogovich).  The smart ones sell themselves for future favors, and Perry is smart… so his $5000 “comeback” really doesn’t fly.

He Still Supports Texas In-State Tuition for Children of Illegals

Frankly, I never got a good explanation last night exactly why Perry thinks it’s a good idea to subsidize higher education for children of illegal immigrants.

All he offered up to explain his position was the same old “Bushy-Liberal Republican lines” like “better to have them be productive members of our society,” and an almost race-baiting soundbite about children not being denied opportunity because “their last name sounds different.”  (I believe Obama used a line something like that while conjecturing why some people might not like him.)

Dodging the Illegal Immigration Question

Though he comes off like a “tough Texan” on the topic, like Bush, Perry’s doesn’t seem all motivated about it (or perhaps. like Bush, his heart’s just not in it.) Byron York reports that in New Hampshire, Perry said recently that “Building a wall on the entire border is a preposterous idea,” and “the only thing a wall would possibly accomplish is to help the ladder business.”  He’s for “strategic fencing” in some urban areas, whatever that means.         Neither does he want to go after the source of the problem, which is American employers who hire the illegal workers.  On this, York reports that “Perry opposes E-Verify, which is a program requiring employers to check the legal status of new hires. It has been very effective in stopping the hiring of illegals, but Perry does not support requiring private businesses to use it, and he doesn’t want state agencies in Texas to use it, either.”  York reports that Perry stated in a 2010 debate, “E-Verify would not make a hill of beans’ difference in what’s happening today.”  

OK, Mr. Perry, so what would?  Here’s all your official website says about it (under the heading of National Security):  “As Governor, Perry has directed hundreds of millions of dollars, manpower and resources to drastically reduce criminal activity along the border because Washington has refused to act. As President, Perry will take decisive action to defend our sovereign border because there can be no homeland security without border security.”  And the “News” part of your site doesn’t even contain the word “immigration.”

Perry’s Ominous Texas Tax Record

In the debate last night, Ron Paul – a resident of Texas – somewhat shouted “au contraire” to the general belief that Mr. Perry is anti-tax, and there is evidence Mr. Paul is right.

In a recent white-paper about Perry’s record in Texas, the national pro-business group “Club for Growth” says, that “A 30,000 foot level examination of Governor Perry’s record on tax policy reveals several pro-growth elements.”  The CFG White Paper notes a 2006 tax cut he signed into law, and his support of an amendment to the Texas Constitution that would limit growth of taxes.

The group goes on to say that “Governor Perry does have some rather large blemishes in his record,”  calling at least three strikes for him on this issue.

       Strike One:  In 1987, as a Democrat state representative, he voted for a $5.7 billion tax hike - the largest state tax increase in American history.

       Strike Two: His first budget as governor, in 2003, faced a $10 billion shortfall and Perry sought to – and got – at least $2.68 billion in “revenue adjustments, surcharges, and fees” to help plug the hole.  These included new fees on nurses, crematoriums, home builders, and alcohol licenses.  (Not really new taxes, you say?  They smell like new taxes to me, and certainly to anyone who had to pay them!)

 Strike Three:  To get property tax reform through the Texas legislature, Perry agreed to swap the elimination of the Texas corporate income tax for the creation of a Texas “Gross Receipts Tax” (a tax on gross revenues of Texas corporations.)   The net effect, according to the CFG white paper, was to “nearly triple the amount that Texas collected from businesses.”   If that’s true, Perry’s version of tax reduction seems a bit expensive.

Most Troubling Of All:  Perry Was A Democrat , He Supported Al Gore, AND He Is A “Karl Rove Republican.”

“Uff-da!” as we say in Minnesota, when something knocks the wind out of us or we just generally want to exclaim.  This is a trifecta of terrible stuff!

OK, Reagan was a Democrat a long time prior to becoming a political force.  But Perry was a Democrat.  In fact he was one of several Texas lawmakers to actively support Al Gore (though NOT as his campaign manager as is often reported).  Still… he supported Al Gore?  Well, Perry WAS a Democrat, wasn’t he?  (Still… he supported Al Gore?)

In 1989 Perry switched parties, changing from conservative Democrat to moderate Republican.  Though at least one Texas political observer tagged him as the “12th most conservative Democrat” in a Democrat-controlled Texas legislature, many in Texas say he made the party switch mostly for political expediency.  They say he was unhappy with his progression through leadership roles in the Texas House, and with the tide-changing election of George W. Bush as governor he saw an opportunity and took it.  You can read the story about how Karl Rove claims he and others convinced Perry not to retire, but become a Republican and run for Texas Ag Commissioner instead – his first step on the road to the governor’s office.

*   *   *

So if these things are true or even mostly true, here’s yet another ex-Texas Governor who  ”talks the talk” but, though he can swagger, doesn’t seem to have a record of “walking the walk.”   Here’s another “conservative” politician who has no problem raising taxes… or revenues, or fees, or whatever pseudonym he gives them.  Here’s another “believer in personal freedom” who – when he thinks it’s right – doesn’t mind using the crushing power of government to invade the body and business of citizens.  (His only answer to the Gardisil mess seems to be “I will always err on the side of life … and oh, yeah, and I would have do it differently today and not jammed it down everyone’s through like I did.”  Not very comforting to know his principles are swayed by the circumstance… kind of like George Bush telling us during the deployment of his stimulus package that he had to ignore capitalism in order to save it.)

And the irony is that, because of the “Texas tough conservative” demeanor Perry and has intentionally or unintentionally fabricated for himself, he might frighten enough voters – or at least remind enough of them of George W. – to get Barack Obama elected again.

Many of Perry’s supporters are falling all over themselves to point out that the “Perries don’t like the Bushies,” as those that makes them political opposites rather than just political foes.  Maybe they were foes because they believed in many of the same things and because “Texas just ain’t big enough for both of them.”

Before conservatives make a final decision on the party’s nominee, we might do well to remember that Texas is the state that nurtured and gave us Democrat arm-breakers Sam Rayburn and Lyndon Johnson, RINOs Bush I and Bush II, and current Republican/Libertarian kook-in-residence Ron Paul.

Texas politics is a big and strange game that has produced many big and strange politicians.  We need to remember that before we succumb to our fond myth of cowboys.



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75 Comments Leave a comment

So who is the alternative?

Kyle-MI (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 3:39PM EST (link)

Seriously.

It's too early to settle for Perry

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 9:13PM EST (link)

Obama is landslidable. The focus should be on the best convserative who gets in.

Perry damages the brand on immigration and throws the issue away, just like Romney does on government health care.

usdebateboard: Amen!

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:35PM EST (link)

That’s pretty much what I was pointing out…. Perry is NOT the savior. He has his own baggage and it’s dumb to settle for him already. But I guess I knew that would raise the ire of the P-Zombies on this board, of which there appear to be many.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Okay, let's say you've convinced me that Perry is not the answer.

Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, September 18th at 4:21AM EST (link)

I wasn’t convinced before that he is, anyway. Some of the characteristics you described have made me hesitant, too.

But, since you’re all about “electability,” who DO you like? I would have said Romney, but usdebateboard implies that he is wrong, too.

So that leaves us with Bachmann, and the other dwarfs, and it pains me to say that of Newt Gingrich. Erick says that Newt wasn’t “engaged” during the last debate, but overall and consistently, I like his current answers to substantive questions better than anybody else’s; I just don’t care much for the Cialis ads on the couch with Nancy P. and a few other non-campaign gaffs. Do you think he can be elected? I don’t think even HE thinks so.

Huntsman? Pul-leaze! Santorum? Secretary of Defense. Cain? I like him, but these debates are revealing him to be perfect for a cabinet-level wrecking ball: “Herman, I’d like you to be Secretary of Education/Commerce/Energy and either dismantle it or transform it into something much smaller that benefits the country, and have it done in two years, OK?” Did I leave anybody out? Nobody viable, I think.

The problem is, you can’t really trust any of them except maybe Newt and Cain, and that is basically your complaint about Perry–we don’t KNOW exactly what he is, and I suppose that would be true in usdebateboard’s case regarding Romney. So how about evaluating him the same way you’d evaluate anybody else. Compare what he says to what he’s done, but be honest about it. I’m sure that others have picked at your various Perry complaints, so I won’t do it again, except OMG, can’t you see the difference between forcing someone’s children to receive a preventive injection and creating a program that lets them receive it if the parents want, and reject it if they don’t, and do it in a way that their health insurance will pay for it, an important consideration for the working poor. Nobody’s child was forced to do anything; doubly so since the law was never enacted.

I don’t like his comment about a border fence and ladders, either–note that I live in Arizona. That comment tells me more about his state of mind than the “in-state tuition break” does.

So, for whom do I vote?

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

...and you haven't convinced me that he isn't...

APA Guy (Diary) Sunday, September 18th at 10:43AM EST (link)

Immigration will be a NATIONAL issue, not a TX or AZ…and given the fact that he will be a conservative Republican governing on the largest stage in the world, do you imagine for a moment that he won’t institute conservative immigration policy given the Republican congress he would answer to? Common sense must revail at some point, Flaggstaff, and your assertions are predicated on some pretty bold assumptions – namely that any decisions he made as a governor would be repeated for 50 states. Even those who don’t necessarily support Romney as our candidate (including me) don’t assert that he would support Obamacare as president just because he put in place an eerily similar policy as MA governor.

Second, the HPV issue, while probably not Perry’s shining policy achievement, pales in comparison to some more pressing issues of the time…namely, the outright destruction of our economy and the systematic stealing of private wealth in lieu of a socialist system. That’s not to say that the HPV issue isn’t important, but I think even you would agree that Perry isn’t likely to make the same decision as president given the attention this has received.

Look, no one is saying jump onto the Perry wagon at this very moment. Just make sure you don’t cut off a great conservative candidate because of a red mark of two…because, in the end, you won’t have anyone to vote for except the perfect candidate who doesn’t exist. They ALL have flaws. In the end, it’s about putting forth the best conservative who can pound Obama into dust in the 2012 election…period.

I don't disagree with you, APA.

Flagstaff (Diary) Monday, September 19th at 3:11PM EST (link)

But I’m glad my comment gave you a chance to make some good points. It was put out there to try to get Minncon to write something positive rather than negative, but perhaps she’s really given up on us.

I will say, though, that my only specific comment about Perry, “I don’t like his comment about a border fence and ladders,” stands. His statement that a border fence is idiotic, or words to that effect, led me to believe that as President, Perry might NOT forcefully support border control, but again, he may have only meant that a full physical fence is impractical. That is a problem with any condidate who is forced to speak in broad terms, as Perry is forced to now as he establishes his position on center stage.

And of course, Minncon has not convinced me, I used the hypothetical, “let’s say.”

As to electability, polls will be very important this time, more than ever. The MSM will do everything in their power to discredit Perry after the primaries if he wins the nomination. If he can combat the picture they will paint of him as a reactionary, lying, not-very-bright religious zealot, he will beat Obama on merit.

I think they may turn on Romney before the primaries to try to throw the nomination to Perry, believing that Romney would be more difficult for Obama to beat in the general election. Look for stories about Romney’s Mormon background if the MSM get a chance to play that card before Bachmann does.

Personally, I think Perry will pick up more votes by energizing conservatives and Republicans than he will lose by any mis-firing statements about anything.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

Heck of a comment, Flagstaff...very well done.

APA Guy (Diary) Tuesday, September 20th at 8:04AM EST (link)

nt

 
 
 
 
 
 

I see that crickets were your answer.

Flagstaff (Diary) Sunday, September 18th at 3:53AM EST (link)

I wonder who Minncon likes? We know she dislikes Perry.

“The press is so powerful in its image-making role that it can make a criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”– Malcolm X, Audubon Ballroom, December 13, 1964

 
 

He used to be a Democrat! Hide the children!

andy_in_texas Tuesday, September 13th at 3:45PM EST (link)

Perry switched parties in 1989. This makes the following line abject bull spatter:

“They say he was unhappy with his progression through leadership roles in the Texas House, and with the tide-changing election of George W. Bush as governor he saw an opportunity and took it.”

Nope. GW Bush was not even a blip on the political radar for most Texans until 1993 (he was on tv sitting at Rangers games, that’s about what most knew of him besides the obvious fact his father was the 41st president). In fact, the implied political opportunist Perry chose to switch the year before the governor’s office flipped back from Republican to Democrat, as Ann Richards (*shudder*) was elected in 1990, and most of Texas still was Democrat short of presidential voting (Dukakis put Sen. Lloyd Bensten, D-TX, on the ballot in 1988 because they thought they had a shot to win the state). If this is opportunism, goodness Perry had some odd timing. He did eek out a victory over a very liberal, big mouthed Agriculture Commissioner under FBI investigation (Jim Hightower, later part of the failure called Air America). In an opportunisitc environment, someone like Hightower loses by 20 points to a chair, but Texas still voted “D” as a reflex below president in 1990, and very few (notable conservative Phil Gramm being the most prominent at that time) overcame that.

Also, 1989 was 22, not 12, years ago. Otherwise, I sure have aged a lot for just 12 years passing. Here in the land of cowboy myth we can actually count a bit.

Perry has some things to answer for, no doubt. But this silly “he used to be a Democrat!” bit is really, really lame. And on Gardasil, I defer to Moe Lane’s front page post.
http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2011/09/13/michele-bachmann-embracing-teh-lefty-anti-vaccy-crazy/

Thanks for the correction, but for nothing else.

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 8:46PM EST (link)

Thanks for the correction on the math. But the rest of it–pfft. Who’s saying being a former Democrat disqualifies anyone? Being a former Democrat and then continuing to ACT like one does. Stop being so lame with your knee-jerk rebuttals, dude.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

And if Perry was acting like a Democrat

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 8:54PM EST (link)

you’d have a point to go with the one under your hair.

Amazing how many don't understand that the GOP can't win absent CONVERTS

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:00PM EST (link)

of Dems/Indies to Republicans. Blows my mind. I live to convert people!

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

55555! If people didn't convert

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:10PM EST (link)

then the soft-lefty demographic of the 15-25 year olds would eventually overrun the country and there won’t be any redstates.

Conversion is key, and converts are often the best ambassadors

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

amen and thx 'ski and even more than those squishy yutes is the Dems' essential default party status

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:40PM EST (link)

due to their dominance of politics since FDR and all the children of democrats that are reluctant to trash the party of their fathers and mothers and grandparents. This effect is fading with time but still exists or Obama would not have been elected. The Dems should long ago have been discredited and been on the ash heap of history given their 40 year econ policy failures and weakness on defense.

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 

If you don't think Perry hasn't acted like a Democrat...

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:26PM EST (link)

… writing executive orders to make laws…
… passing his own Dream Act…
… raising taxes and fees…

Then you, sir, don’t know what a Democrat is. Did you also vote for Obama?

That’s my last reply to your particular brand of zombified stupidity. Back away from the keyboard. Pffttt.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

They have all acted like Dems at one point or another

Kyle-MI (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:48PM EST (link)

Romney has acted like a Democrat.
Bachman has acted like a Democrat.
Gingrich has acted like a Democrat.
Santorum has acted like a Democrat.
Even Ron Paul and Sarah Palin have acted like Democrats.

If that is your criteria then good luck to you.

 
 

Slapdash drivel = nobody takes you seriously

andy_in_texas Wednesday, September 14th at 10:58AM EST (link)

Hey, “Dude”, are you 12? Your language in the comments suggests so.

If you are going to criticize, fine. Get your facts straight. Many people, including myself, found massive holes in your points. Try to do a little research. Many of the issues you point out have real, legitimate arguments to be made against some things Perry has done (I have certainly not agreed with him on many things in 10+ years as governor). But trying to be over the top, you should know people here will nail you to the wall – the readers of this site by and large know what’s what. Listening to you, fees raised = big gov’t lib. I am sorry, I think people using government services and paying for them directly, as opposed to me subsidizing services I don’t use, is a GREAT idea.

Later, “Dude”. Your village is waiting for you.

 
 
 

You're very, very late to the party, minncon. Worse, you're not original.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 3:52PM EST (link)

The Eighteen Things

Almost a month ago, izoneguy published the definitive “seventeen things” diary .. later adding an 18th.

Every issue you raised is already there.

Mew

——
self-portrait

Caveat Suffragator

Omigod, acat... forgive me for coming to non-original conclusions!

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 8:50PM EST (link)

What, every piece on Redstate is a completely original perspective on a completely original topic? The shame I feel for expressing my own conclusions, even if they are similar to to what others have reached. The shame, the shame.

Go back and dig in your litter box.

Mew you.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

The point, which you are obviously unable to

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 8:56PM EST (link)

fathom, is that all this crap was laundered ages ago. You added exactly nothing to the discussion. Your conclusions are a combination of wrong and stupid. And all of them were refuted.

Laundered? Maybe for you.

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:13PM EST (link)

Wrong and stupid? Thanks. Coming from you, those are indeed compliments.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

 
 

Your thin skin is showing, bud.

Vegas_Rick (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 8:57PM EST (link)

nt

“God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.”- Billy Currington

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.

 

I never accused you of plagarism...

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:03PM EST (link)

I accused you of not paying attention.

If you had, if you’d just bothered to read Red State regularly, then you would have noticed that all of the crap you just threw has been sliding off the walls around here for months.

Mew

——
self-portrait

Caveat Suffragator

And your point is what, acat?

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:15PM EST (link)

If you’ll note, the piece was posted on “My Diary.” That means I get to write what I want… to share with the people I want. And you’re not one of them.

Go scratch some furniture, Pzombie.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Well, you're partially right. Red State granted you the freedom to open your mouth..

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:20PM EST (link)

and remove all doubt, or to keep your mouth shut and leave us uncertain.

Where you’re wrong is having a choice over who reads and replies.

If you really don’t want me to comment on your diary, you can take it up with the moderators.

Mew

——
self-portrait

Caveat Suffragator

Oh, how original acat...

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:30PM EST (link)

Did you just come up with that “open your mouth and remove all doubt” line? Wow. You… not being original… how boring?

Comment all you want. Doesn’t make your discourtesy any more acceptable, or your points any more valid.

Scratch, scratch.

P.S. See that line of type under the comment window that says “Be respectful, or be banned?” You should try it.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

 
 

You wrote it in public

Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:27PM EST (link)

Therefore, you get to hear the comments. If you want a diary that’s aimed just at “the people you want”, then you should blog somewhere with access control lists.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

Sez you.

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:32PM EST (link)

Thanks for explaining how it all works, according to Bill S. Zzzzzz.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

minncon...out of curiosity, do you have a preferred candidate?

snowshooze (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:35PM EST (link)

Or which do you prefer at this point?

shooze, he is here as a tribble.

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:42PM EST (link)

Not to promote anyone, just to tear down someone.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

Well... I realize..

snowshooze (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:54PM EST (link)

I am just trying to determine which kind.
Any idea?

A lame one.

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:25PM EST (link)

I don’t even think tribble 1 (arc_utah) would want to hang around with him.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 
 
 
 

Well, I could show you the door if you're not happy here.

Bill S (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:36PM EST (link)

That would solve the problem for all of us.

“It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.” – David St. Hubbins

 
 
 

Reagan became a Republican in 1962. 18 years later he was the Republica nominee

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:36PM EST (link)

Perry was a democrat in 1988 (who supported Reagan). Seems like the 18 year waiting period ended in 2006.

Do you want converts, or would you prefer like the libertarian movement, to have a small, select, and totally ineffective group?

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

 
 
 
 
 

Hey minncon, what subsidy is given to illegles.

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 4:19PM EST (link)

Point it out to me, please.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

Hey Gekster... Here's your explanation.

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:00PM EST (link)

How do in-state tuition rates subsidize higher education for the children of illegals?

1. It costs X to run the Texas university system.
2. Charging Y to children of legals and illegals alike means everyone’s tuition costs more.
3. When the children and parents of legal citizens pay more so that the children of illegals can get discounted (in-state) tuition rates, they are SUBSIDIZING the illegals.

Get it now?

And as far as your invitation to “stop whining and actually do something” and “get involved or get lost?” To bring the discourse down to your level: Get stuffed.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Let me spell this out in small words.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:05PM EST (link)

Texas has no income tax.

The Texas Dream Act requires the applicant to have lived in the State for three years.

Living in Texas for three years means the applicant has *paid taxes*.

This has been posted several times… including at least once earlier today.

Mew

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So that means they're here legally?

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:08PM EST (link)

Cause they have lived in Texas and paid taxes? Oh, well, that makes it all better.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Well, no. But Perry did mention something about working on citizenship.

snowshooze (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:18PM EST (link)

And I would have liked to have heard him expand on that point.
Texas has a close relationship with Mexico… and Perry is on the front line.
I believe that he is in a position of having to deal with the realities of the situation.
Granted, if the Federal Government performed it’s duty, he would not have to. But they have not.
Can you be a resident of Texas without being a US Citizen?
Yep.

 

One of the requirements is to apply for citizenship.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:21PM EST (link)

So yes, they are here legally, pending a decision by the ICE.

Mew

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Hey minncon,

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:06PM EST (link)

Instate tuition is paid by people who live in the state.
Having to have lived in the state for three years means you live in the state.
And they have to pay thier own way.
No money from the Government.
That means it is not subsidiesed.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

Hey Gekster... there is more than one kind of subsidy.

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:22PM EST (link)

“In-state tuition is paid by people who live in the state.”

So you’re saying that people who are in Texas illegally should pay what legal citizens should pay, just because they live there and haven’t been caught and deported yet?

And let me explain subsidies in the greater sense: If you pay more so that I can pay less than I should… YOU are subsidizing ME. Subsidies can be given through the marketplace, or through government.

If the children of illegal immigrants weren’t considered “Texas residents,” then they would pay more for tuition, and actual residents (and their children) might pay less.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Nice twist of words...

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:34PM EST (link)

but they don’t apply.
I am happy that you should take out the sins of the Father to punish the Son.
So if a guy robs a store, we throw his kids in jail.
You are happy with that.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 

You're correct

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 9:39PM EST (link)

All you need to do is sneak across the border with your high school age kids, chill out for three years (after all, Obama’s ICE won’t bother you unless you commit another cime…besides immigrating illegally) and you get cheap college tuition.

Instead of, oh, I don’t know, a reciprocal agreement with neigboring states for kids of parents who have not broken the law.

Does it seem like we should be taking steps which will be creating more of that?

usdebateboard/minnicon both missing the point

onemovoter (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:50PM EST (link)

Texas has a state sales tax along with other user fees that generate revenues to the state that are then used to support the state universities.

Whether you are legal or illegal in the state of Texas, you end up paying taxes through buying things or using things. So here’s my question, if an illegal is in Texas, and they have been paying those taxes for many years, that you would rip them off from what others who have done the same in paying taxes would get?

A court would most likely find in favor of the illegal being due their money back or get instate tuition. I know that sounds funny but having worked at a law school and debated law students, they actually argued this and found it legal in that situation.

“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.”- Benjamin Franklin
“I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”- Will Rogers

 

You're continuing to spread falsehoods, usadebateboard. Somehow, I doubt your motives are pure.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:57PM EST (link)

Because if they live in Texas for three years, they subsidized the Longhorns for three years.

Because they have to get into college on merit. No special breaks.

Because they have to apply for citizenship, and are likely to stay.

Because there’s none so blind, usadebateboard, as will not see. Your willful ignoring of facts presented – and of the Reply To This button – have convinced me that you’re nothing but a troll.

Mew

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Doesn't matter

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 10:22PM EST (link)

The basis for their being in the country to begin with is illegitimate.

And I could not care less what you think my motives are.

Rick Perry is “hold your nose” material, and it’s way too soon to “hold your nose.”

Why give their parents a reason to hang around three more years ilegally?

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 10:23PM EST (link)

n/t

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sigh.

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 4:51PM EST (link)

Could RS please institute a policy that diaries opposing candidates have a “research” requirement prior to posting.

I second this idea. (5)

Mike Ferguson (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 7:15PM EST (link)

NT

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.
Ronald Reagan

I'll third this suggestion.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 7:21PM EST (link)

If that’s not possible, then .. maybe a requirement for uniqueness …

Mew

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unique like umpteen Bachmann bashing diaries?

Common_Cents (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:15PM EST (link)

How many do we need?
Yeah Bachmann stepped over the line but sheesh, what a backlash!

I think Perry is more than capable to defend himself and I’m glad he’s in the race.

I don’t think Bachmann was ever quite up to being CIC, but she is valuable as heck, drumming up the base, attacking Obama, rallying tea party efforts, doing well in congress, and possibly running against Kloubachar?

The backlash is way over the top here against Bachmann.

She’s on our team!

Obama=Golfer in Chief, Leading from, behind, the Back Nine.
Leaders don’t create movements. Movements create leaders. Get involved. Your future depends on it.
Govt “invests” YOUR tax money for POLITICAL return rather than economic return.

You raise a valid point, Common. My current theory is that this was...

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:29PM EST (link)

Bachmann’s “Dean Scream” moment…

The backlash will end quickly, she’ll complete her term, and if she drops it soon, she may even manage to beat Kloubchar in the MN Senate race.

Only, though, if she pulls a Pawlenty and drops out fast and with as much grace as she can still muster. Otherwise, her slide into footnote-dom is going to be painful to watch, much as Dean’s was, and her political resurrection less certain. (Dean went on to head the DNC and his “50 state” strategy in 2006 and 2008 was effective…)

Mew

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Too bad 0bama didn't head the DNC:

rickbull Tuesday, September 13th at 10:08PM EST (link)

then we could have had a “59 state” strategy. Or maybe he would have taken a cue from Bush and had a “strategery.”

WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).

Alas, Rick .. they tend to want competent folks for that job.

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:29PM EST (link)

Unlike, you know, President of the United States of America, where they’re fine with on-the-job training.

All I can say is it’s a good thing Obama’s inherently lazy…

deadpossum

Mew

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And I have always loved that "Not My Job" illustration.

rickbull Tuesday, September 13th at 11:35PM EST (link)

It fits quite well in this instance, as well.

WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).

 
 
 
 

Bachman benched herself

cjf99b Monday, September 19th at 4:27AM EST (link)

People think she scored points on Perry at the debate. That is probably true but
it’s disingenuous to suggest a sitting republican Govorner would put “innocent little girls” at risk for political donations without concrete evidence. It’s both ignorant and irresponsible to suggest a life saving drug is dangerous without hard facts, much less what some woman tells her. Bottom line, it was recommended by the CDC and Merck was the manufacturer. If this was cronyism, Merck could have donated an unlimited amount, 30k over 7 years hardly seems concrete. TX already has and opt out in place, this vaccine just added to the list. The mandate had to do with insurance coverage and was not done in the dark. Believe me, it was well publicized. He took heat from social conservatives at the time, its safe to say it was important enough to him to take this on. She ruined her presidential campaign, damaged the GOP and her reelection to the house, and may even have cost lives playing on anti-vaccine fears. Bachman is not part of the team, she proved that this week.

 
 

acat, you crack me up!

onemovoter (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:19PM EST (link)

I get such a kick out of your postings. However I sometimes get a kick although a little deranged in a way, from those who don’t do their homework.

MEEeyoww Acat ;) ~

“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.”- Benjamin Franklin
“I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”- Will Rogers

 
 
 
 

Excuse me Perry Zombies, but...

minncon (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:06PM EST (link)

… sorry you can bear even a discussion of your master’s possible faults.

To everyone above, let me respond with the same courtesy and thoughtfulness you’ve shown me and tell you to “frag-off, fools.”

God, you zombie are SO tiring.

“When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, “Well, what do you need?” -Steven Wright

Hey homer, err, minncon. Do a search on...

gekster (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:10PM EST (link)

Rick Perry Red State.
Do some reading first and then come back and try to make some coherent arguments.
Till then, love you too, buddy.

They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.

We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway

Ok folks, 2012 is here. Get involved

 

Alex Jones is beckoning...

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:20PM EST (link)

you’ll feel very comfortable.

And, I don’t know that any of us in this thread have declared for, or support, Perry. I know I haven’t and don’t, I’m waiting to see what happens over the next month or so. I’m guessing most of the folks on this thread are in the same boat.

I do know that the idiocy that you’ve posted that has been previously rebutted isn’t going to move anybody away from Perry. It’s certainly proof positive that he’s neither perfect or able to walk on water. Oh well. When all is said and done, rational people will make a list of pluses and minuses for each candidate and make a decision.

If it’s “courtesy and thoughtfulness” you’re looking for, I would suggest you post a researched, thoughtful diary. Those diaries tend to be well received even by those who disagree with the premise. Posters who slap slipshod **** tend to be dismissed as the fools they’ve portrayed themselves to be.

Oh, and the plural for “zombie” is “zombies”. And “frag-off”? Tsk tsk.

 

Yeah, it's a little early for holding one's nose

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 9:31PM EST (link)

No?

 

No zombies here

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:44PM EST (link)

I disagree with Perry on the in-state tuition issue and the vaccination issue. He has admitted a mistake with regards to one. From my perspective, he represents the best overall candidate with a real shot at winning.

Presidents should be pulled from the ranks for governors and war-time generals. There reasons to make such an assessment.

I find Perry superior to the other two governors most prominently mentioned.

He is no “master”. Nobody has accused you of being a slave. Not sure how you are treating anyone in the same manner that they treated you.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

 
 

Great diary

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 9:07PM EST (link)

Perry is no better than Romney if he thinks he can hide lousy ideas like the Texas Dream Act behind the 10th Amdnement.

There’s still room for a real conservative in this race.

Unfortunately, there are no "real conservatives".

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:22PM EST (link)

 
 

There are potential candidates

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 9:24PM EST (link)

whose positions on immigration and government health care are quite different than Perry’s and Romney’s.

These are huge weaknesses in the current field.

Yes, but Ron Paul's goldbuggery and failure to understand the terrorist threat..

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 9:46PM EST (link)

lead me to conclude I’m probably better off with Perry. Or Romney, for that matter.

Mew

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Let's face it, Acat,

rickbull Tuesday, September 13th at 10:16PM EST (link)

we’d even be better off with crazy Uncle Ron than we are with 0bama. I am certain that he would bring in at least ONE sane adviser.

WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).

Yes, but we need Rand's vote in the Senate....

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:21PM EST (link)

although watching the Wall Street heads explode as they try to get their heads around the new gold standard could be fun.

Mew

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Would be quite a blast, wouldn't it?

rickbull Tuesday, September 13th at 11:32PM EST (link)

NT

WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).

 
 
 
 

There are no potential candidates who've ever

mbecker908 (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:22PM EST (link)

actually run a government in a “conservative” manner. There are a bunch who can talk a good game, but their talk doesn’t match their walk.

Unless, of course, you’re talking about Mitch Daniels.

Daniels has a book coming out on the 20th

JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:24PM EST (link)

I hope our candidates read it.

In other news, Paul Ryan has a video coming out tomorrow.

My rules of the road for primary season.
Rule #1: Vote for YOUR first choice in the primaries
Rule #2: Vote for the R in the general.
Rule #3: Don’t let anyone convince you to violate Rule #1 or Rule #2
Rule #4: When in a center-right argument, reaffirm Rules #1-#3–it will help us all to get along better.
Rule #5: If you are using the language of the left, you probably aren’t furthering conservativism
Rule #6: The priority is issues first, candidates second, and supporters third. Nobody is bigger than the issues. Conversely, if you spend your time focusing on supporters, you are wasting everyone’s time.

STOP THE MADNESS!

A reduction in the rate of spending increases is NOT a cut!
In-state tuition for illegals is NOT amnesty!
Requiring someone to pay their medical bills is NOT an individual mandate!
Reducing tax rates is NOT a tax increase!

 
 
 

First they came for the Palin supporters

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 10:32PM EST (link)

and I did not protest, because I was not a Palin supporter.

Then they came for the Perry refuseniks…

Really? I'd figured you for one...

acat (Diary) Tuesday, September 13th at 10:46PM EST (link)

Does this mean you’re a Paulistine?

Mew

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No, the good standard sounds neat

usdebateboard Tuesday, September 13th at 10:53PM EST (link)

but taking George McGovern’s foreign policy along with it seems like too high a price to pay.